chivo Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 a question to year round residents... as i cant remember... which month has the air thickest with smoke from the mass burning of crops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 More than likely towards the end of next month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serenitynow Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceadugenga Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Any month between the two all ready mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomchop Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Serious smoke starts around end of Feb or first of March and runs into April. Least smoke is Nov, Dec, Jan when the air is pretty much very clear at least in my area. I would agree that March though is by far the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changraider Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Depends very much on where you are living / staying. I live on a farm, in my area there is no problem. If OP would like to be a bit more specific, maybe he could get some useful info. Is it worth pointing out that "mass burning of crops" is not practised here (or anywhere else that I know of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceadugenga Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I think we decided a lot of it drifts down from places like China. The worst month seems to vary every year, last year wasn't too bad. I had a run into the mountains today and there was definitely haze around even this early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changraider Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Well this topic comes up every year at least once ;-) There are 3 potential sources of localised smoke pollution : - slash & burn. This is a hill-tribe, not a Thai, practise and consequently it is extremely limited these days (non-existent where I live) - burning the forest to catch animals - this is punishable by law and is taken very seriously by the police and farmers where I live, consequently it is almost non-existent where I live - farmers burning off stubble after the harvest. This is the most common source of smoke. The extent to which this becomes a problem depends on where you live, and the prevailing wind and weather conditions, hence the yearly variations. As mentioned previously it is not a problem where I live. Low level smoke pollution cannot travel from China, though it is theoretically possible that some very high level altitude effects may be created in China (in the same way that the ozone hole over Oz is created in the Northern hemisphere). There was indeed a haze this morning - there is in most countries during the summer, even the UK, but it definitely wasn't smoke - at least where I live. Also worth pointing out that the many national park areas in this part of Thailand can create very localised micro-climates, because of their mountains, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceadugenga Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I think smoke has no trouble travelling the 500 odd kms from China, a check on the topics of previous years will show satellite photos of it doing so. This photo was taken this afternoon south west of Chiang Rai city, I'll agree it's probably mainly cloud/mist but there's definitely smoke in it as plumes were coming up from the valleys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villagefarang Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Where I live we never have any smoke. We do get some of these pesky white things in the air but I am assured they will be banned by the authorities in the near future, at least where I live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jombom Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Normally it's towards the end of the dry season (burns better), which is usually Feb or March. Has to be done before the start of the new planting season, which is related to the new rainy season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceadugenga Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Where I live we never have any smoke. We do get some of these pesky white things in the air but I am assured they will be banned by the authorities in the near future, at least where I live. They're not being banned, just forcibly relocated to Bangkok. Kind of an upper stratosphere ethnic cleansing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceadugenga Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Normally it's towards the end of the dry season (burns better), which is usually Feb or March. Has to be done before the start of the new planting season, which is related to the new rainy season. They don't seem to burn it every year, sometimes they sell it and I've seen them just plough it back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Well this topic comes up every year at least once ;-) There are 3 potential sources of localised smoke pollution : - slash & burn. This is a hill-tribe, not a Thai, practise and consequently it is extremely limited these days (non-existent where I live) - burning the forest to catch animals - this is punishable by law and is taken very seriously by the police and farmers where I live, consequently it is almost non-existent where I live - farmers burning off stubble after the harvest. This is the most common source of smoke. The extent to which this becomes a problem depends on where you live, and the prevailing wind and weather conditions, hence the yearly variations. As mentioned previously it is not a problem where I live. Low level smoke pollution cannot travel from China, though it is theoretically possible that some very high level altitude effects may be created in China (in the same way that the ozone hole over Oz is created in the Northern hemisphere). There was indeed a haze this morning - there is in most countries during the summer, even the UK, but it definitely wasn't smoke - at least where I live. Also worth pointing out that the many national park areas in this part of Thailand can create very localised micro-climates, because of their mountains, cheers. You perhaps need to look at the satellite pictures showing where the fires occur and also, the wind current maps of this region, from those two things you'll conclude that much of the smog we experience during burning season is imported from the North of the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changraider Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Well this topic comes up every year at least once ;-) There are 3 potential sources of localised smoke pollution : - slash & burn. This is a hill-tribe, not a Thai, practise and consequently it is extremely limited these days (non-existent where I live) - burning the forest to catch animals - this is punishable by law and is taken very seriously by the police and farmers where I live, consequently it is almost non-existent where I live - farmers burning off stubble after the harvest. This is the most common source of smoke. The extent to which this becomes a problem depends on where you live, and the prevailing wind and weather conditions, hence the yearly variations. As mentioned previously it is not a problem where I live. Low level smoke pollution cannot travel from China, though it is theoretically possible that some very high level altitude effects may be created in China (in the same way that the ozone hole over Oz is created in the Northern hemisphere). There was indeed a haze this morning - there is in most countries during the summer, even the UK, but it definitely wasn't smoke - at least where I live. Also worth pointing out that the many national park areas in this part of Thailand can create very localised micro-climates, because of their mountains, cheers. You perhaps need to look at the satellite pictures showing where the fires occur and also, the wind current maps of this region, from those two things you'll conclude that much of the smog we experience during burning season is imported from the North of the region. Thanks for the advice, but actually all I need to do is look out my window or take a stroll to assure you that we do not suffer from the dreaded smoke monster in the neighbourhood where I live, despite the fact that I live in a farming community ;-) It must surely be self evident to anyone who has spent time in different locations in the region that there is not a uniform "problem" throughout the northern Thai provinces. Yesterday after the morning haze was burnt off (by the sun) in my village the day progressed into the sort of perfect English summer day that we get about 2 weeks a year in good old blighty - if we're lucky (actually very similar to VF's oulawed fluffy bits). For those people who believe that low level smoke can travel from China without being dispersed by wind and the numerous mountain ranges and forests in between, all I can say is keep on smoking whatever it is you're smoking :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Well this topic comes up every year at least once ;-) There are 3 potential sources of localised smoke pollution : - slash & burn. This is a hill-tribe, not a Thai, practise and consequently it is extremely limited these days (non-existent where I live) - burning the forest to catch animals - this is punishable by law and is taken very seriously by the police and farmers where I live, consequently it is almost non-existent where I live - farmers burning off stubble after the harvest. This is the most common source of smoke. The extent to which this becomes a problem depends on where you live, and the prevailing wind and weather conditions, hence the yearly variations. As mentioned previously it is not a problem where I live. Low level smoke pollution cannot travel from China, though it is theoretically possible that some very high level altitude effects may be created in China (in the same way that the ozone hole over Oz is created in the Northern hemisphere). There was indeed a haze this morning - there is in most countries during the summer, even the UK, but it definitely wasn't smoke - at least where I live. Also worth pointing out that the many national park areas in this part of Thailand can create very localised micro-climates, because of their mountains, cheers. You perhaps need to look at the satellite pictures showing where the fires occur and also, the wind current maps of this region, from those two things you'll conclude that much of the smog we experience during burning season is imported from the North of the region. all I need to do is look out my window or take a stroll to assure you that we do not suffer from the dreaded smoke monster in the neighbourhood where I live, Not surprising at this time of year, it's doubtful that anyone is suffering from smog/burning in October! But out of curiosity, how many years have you been living in the North? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceadugenga Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Just flying out of Chiang Rai in February/March in previous years revealed a great blanket of smoke stretching for hundreds of miles and reaching to many thousands of feet. It was from ground level to well over the tops of the mountains and it was easy to see that it wasn't merely a local contribution. And the No Smoking sign was on so my vision wasn't obscured by anything I was smoking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changraider Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Well this topic comes up every year at least once ;-) There are 3 potential sources of localised smoke pollution : - slash & burn. This is a hill-tribe, not a Thai, practise and consequently it is extremely limited these days (non-existent where I live) - burning the forest to catch animals - this is punishable by law and is taken very seriously by the police and farmers where I live, consequently it is almost non-existent where I live - farmers burning off stubble after the harvest. This is the most common source of smoke. The extent to which this becomes a problem depends on where you live, and the prevailing wind and weather conditions, hence the yearly variations. As mentioned previously it is not a problem where I live. Low level smoke pollution cannot travel from China, though it is theoretically possible that some very high level altitude effects may be created in China (in the same way that the ozone hole over Oz is created in the Northern hemisphere). There was indeed a haze this morning - there is in most countries during the summer, even the UK, but it definitely wasn't smoke - at least where I live. Also worth pointing out that the many national park areas in this part of Thailand can create very localised micro-climates, because of their mountains, cheers. You perhaps need to look at the satellite pictures showing where the fires occur and also, the wind current maps of this region, from those two things you'll conclude that much of the smog we experience during burning season is imported from the North of the region. all I need to do is look out my window or take a stroll to assure you that we do not suffer from the dreaded smoke monster in the neighbourhood where I live, Not surprising at this time of year, it's doubtful that anyone is suffering from smog/burning in October! But out of curiosity, how many years have you been living in the North? Just to clarify, here in the village where I live we don't experience smog problems at any time of the year. Getting back to OP's question, the level of smog depends on where you live, ranging from pretty bad most years in Chiang Mai city to no problem at all in many rural areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluestu Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 From my limited time here I'd say it comes and goes from around October onwards, but never too bad, then starts to increase around February with March & April often being horrendous. I rode down to CM and back today and noticed some burning had started already as I was passing through Wiang Papao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Not surprising at this time of year, it's doubtful that anyone is suffering from smog/burning in October! But out of curiosity, how many years have you been living in the North? Just to clarify, here in the village where I live we don't experience smog problems at any time of the year. Getting back to OP's question, the level of smog depends on where you live, ranging from pretty bad most years in Chiang Mai city to no problem at all in many rural areas. So not long then, OK, it'll be interesting to see what your observations are following the coming burning season, perhaps you'll report back and let us know if your observations are remain the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changraider Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Just flying out of Chiang Rai in February/March in previous years revealed a great blanket of smoke stretching for hundreds of miles and reaching to many thousands of feet. It was from ground level to well over the tops of the mountains and it was easy to see that it wasn't merely a local contribution. And the No Smoking sign was on so my vision wasn't obscured by anything I was smoking. I agree there are many influences on the smog, but surely the main factor is local stubble burning on the farms - that's why we experience this October thru April - it coincides with the 2 rice crop harvests that we're fortunate to get in this part of Thailand. In the case of Chiang Mai city the problem is exacerbated by the tens of thousands of vehicle exhausts which lock the smog in. In the case of my village the problem is eradicated by the hundreds of thousands of trees on the mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 From my limited time here I'd say it comes and goes from around October onwards, but never too bad, then starts to increase around February with March & April often being horrendous. I rode down to CM and back today and noticed some burning had started already as I was passing through Wiang Papao Hi Stu, How's the road looking down to Chiang Mai? I'll be back in about a week and need to have some two wheeled fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenivan Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 From Earth Observatory To get the link Click here : "Smoke is an international traveler that moves with the wind and weather across borders. On March 24, 2004, smoke from fires in Southeast Asia—as far away as India—has stretched thousands of kilometers away, and hangs in a dirty-looking haze across a bank of clouds over the South China Sea. At this time of year, agricultural burning takes place across Southeast Asia as both large- and small-scale farmers clear land for planting or grazing. To the north, the haze may include some dust, as dust storms have been sweeping across the Taklimakan and Gobi Deserts in northern China in mid-March. Smoke from burning vegetation contains a lot of particulate matter. When such pollution particles are smaller than 10 microns (1 micron is one-millionth of a meter, only a fraction of the diameter of a human hair) it is especially dangerous to human health. Particles that tiny evade our lungs’ defenses and our immune systems much more easily than larger particles. Dust is known to be a carrier of disease. Both dust and smoke reduce visibility and decrease sunlight reaching the Earth’s surface, which in turn affects productivity in crops and other plants. The study of these and other aerosols in our atmosphere is a key component of NASA’s ongoing Earth science and climate change research efforts." Changraider, how much is landprice in your village? I think we are many that might consider to move to a smokefree environment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenivan Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Click here to another discussion in our forum about Smoke in Chiang Rai. This is from 2009 and that was a quite bad year for most people in Chiang Rai and even worse for people in Chiang Mai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changraider Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Click here to another discussion in our forum about Smoke in Chiang Rai. This is from 2009 and that was a quite bad year for most people in Chiang Rai and even worse for people in Chiang Mai. I'm not sure if you mean Chiang Rai / Chiang Mai cities or provinces. There is a huge variation in air quality in the affected months across these 2 provinces and the other provinces of northern Thailand, as anyone who travels throughout the region can see with their own eyes. Consequently it is not possible to give the OP any useful info as he hasn't specified a location. My own personal observation is that it is much worse in the cities, particularly Chiang Mai. Regarding your earlier interest in land in the village, I'll bear it in mind, all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limbo Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) Click here to another discussion in our forum about Smoke in Chiang Rai. This is from 2009 and that was a quite bad year for most people in Chiang Rai and even worse for people in Chiang Mai. I'm not sure if you mean Chiang Rai / Chiang Mai cities or provinces. There is a huge variation in air quality in the affected months across these 2 provinces and the other provinces of northern Thailand, as anyone who travels throughout the region can see with their own eyes. Consequently it is not possible to give the OP any useful info as he hasn't specified a location. My own personal observation is that it is much worse in the cities, particularly Chiang Mai. Regarding your earlier interest in land in the village, I'll bear it in mind, all the best. Sorry for not having more recent material on this, but I'm sure you will find it by yourself. Just Google around a little bit. On the Chiang Mai page of Wikipedia you will find for instance an interesting chapter on air pollution in Chiang Mai town and province: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Mai As far as I remember it was not really bad in 2010 and 2011 was the cleanest in years. I thinks that the statistics of 2009 still have some reliability in predicting the time span within the year that the pollution will be worst. Limbo PS Chiangraider, see my posting of March last year. It surprises me too. Thanks Sven for using the search function on this one (saves a lot of energy 555!): I never thought that Chiang Rai was even worse than Chiang Mai. Above 120 things are getting unhealthy ... This was the situation last year: Edited October 25, 2011 by Limbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 If you look at the stats it seems that holds true on most days. http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/QueryAir.cfm?task=findsite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chivo Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 hello and thanks for the replies. (from the OP) i usually stay in a hotel near to the OLD airport so that would be the area i am curious about. i agree with chiangraider that the following is the main cause of concern: - farmers burning off stubble after the harvest. This is the most common source of smoke. The extent to which this becomes a problem depends on where you live, and the prevailing wind and weather conditions, hence the yearly variations. so looks like that would coincide with the end of crop season, which i am hearing there are two.... so oct and mar/april seems to be the story. thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomchop Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 hello and thanks for the replies. (from the OP) i usually stay in a hotel near to the OLD airport so that would be the area i am curious about. i agree with chiangraider that the following is the main cause of concern: - farmers burning off stubble after the harvest. This is the most common source of smoke. The extent to which this becomes a problem depends on where you live, and the prevailing wind and weather conditions, hence the yearly variations. so looks like that would coincide with the end of crop season, which i am hearing there are two.... so oct and mar/april seems to be the story. thanks again I am no expert but I think it's not just the crop stubble or even the main cause but the massive amount of undergrowth that grows like crazy during the rainy season from about may til about november...then you have several months with hardly a drop of rain and most all that undergrowth dies and turns into tons upon tons of dried up dead weeds/grass/plants....when it is truly good and dry usually around march then every thai in my area that can get a pile of sticks/weeds together burns it all off...they usually throw in lots of plastic to add to the aroma....i have no idea but have been told that part of the reason to burn off all the undergrowth is that if they do not then it builds up year after year and becomes more of a serious fire threat which i guess makes some sense....anyway...in my area of Chiang Rai the worst of the months is definitely march ....and it seems to be coming mostly from all the neighbors who burn baby burn....hard to tell if it is also drifting in from other countries but it is some nasty stuff...many days i cannot see the nearby mountains and have little ashes raining down in my yard....and they do not even burn the crop stubble in my immediate neighborhood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priceless Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) In fact the main source of the really bad pollution is not local, but mostly large scale fires in Burma and Laos. Anyway, here's a more up to date issue of the graph that 'Limbo' posted: As you can see Chiang Rai has been the second most polluted place 2009-2011, after Mae Hong Son. The reason is of course what I mentioned above, that most of it comes from across the border. To answer the OP's question, the most polluted time is obviously March. / Priceless Edited October 25, 2011 by Priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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