Bangkok Likely To Flood, Water Expert

[Lite Beer]

Bangkok likely to flood, water expert

SIRINART SIRISUNTHORN,

SAOWANEE NIMPANPHAYUNGWONG

THE NATION ON SUNDAY

The promise that the 20 districts in Bangkok which remain dry would not flood was now hardly credible, according to a lecturer from King Mongkut Institute of Technology Lat Krabang with expertise in water and flood management.

Drainage of flood water on both sides of the capital was disproportionate compared to the colossal mass of water threatening the capital, he said.

An attempt to drain flood water towards the east of Bangkok was in difficulty, as the eastern areas were higher than the inner city, and water tended to flow west. But the network of canals and drains in Bangkok's west were not able to cope with the volume of water, Asst Prof Khomsan Maleesee, of the KMITL's Faculty of Engineering, said.

Saen Saeb canal in eastern Bangkok was not capable of taking a huge amount of water south through Sam Wa canal and the watergate with the same name. He said that the much-reported dispute at the gate and demolition of both shoulders of the structure should not be solely blamed for the swelling of Saen Saeb Canal or possible inundation of Bang Chan Industrial Estate.

"Whether the issue can be sorted out, flooding in inner city areas is likely. Don't make the villagers [who demolished the watergate] scapegoats. Let's get ourselves ready to cope with coming floods," he said.

Even the giant flood tunnel, five metres in diameter and five kilometres long, could only drain 5 million cubic metres (units) a day. But the amount of water sitting north of Bangkok totalled around a billion units.

"The two amounts between the drain-out and the fill-in volume are incomparable," he said.

"The only truth we must face now is that water must run down from north to south, and inevitably through Bangkok.

"It's now difficult to believe that 20 Bangkok districts earlier declared safe will not be flooded, even the crucial locations like Bang Chan and Lat Krabang industrial estates, which are located in areas where water [previously] flows. Both estates must watch out first for flood water coming via underground sewerage drains," he said.

Flood drainage was underway around the clock and hopefully expected to be sufficient to drain the flood water away, according to Suthep Noiphairoj, a deputy director-general of the Royal Irrigation Department.

Another 10 water pumps will be installed and working near Sam Wa Canal, in addition to five at Rangsit canals 12 and 13, and another 16 in Nakhon Nayok.

Garbage and water weeds are obstructing waterways and slowing down currents along with riverside slums and illegally-built structures on them, according to Chote Trachoo, permanent secretary of the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry, who cited a recent ministry study.

The slowest current speed that had been detected was 1 metre per second, at the beginning of the 26 canals surveyed, he said. Dredging of canal beds had been ordered along with collection of water-weeds. That work was expected to be done within the next few days.

Underwater structures called stop-logs were also found along with other debris at the bottom of Canals 9 to 12, and at six small watergates. They were another obstacle slowing the water flow.

He said the ministry had documented illegal buildings on the canals and would refer those details to the Marine Department (Transport Ministry) so the buildings could be demolished or moved as part of post-flood restoration work. "There should be a major overhaul of this issue after the flooding," he said.

The survey of 26 canals, mostly in eastern Bangkok, found various types of obstacles. Some do not have water-weeds but the current was slow due to canals being shallow. Some with stop-logs would be dredged so the current would flow quicker.

-- The Nation 2011-11-06

[submaniac]

Well, makes sense. With the sheer volume of water involved it just doesn't make sense that Bangkok can withstand all of this.

[noitom]

Where was this professor earlier?if he is an "expert" why wasn't he consulted all along? Doesn't make sense that 2-3 months into the flood that he is being tracked down. Who will be the next secret "expert" to emerge? Of course, it's easy to see that Bangkok will be overcome by flood water and if not through the canals and streets..ie.Sukhumvit, then through the ground, floors, and foundations of buildings. It's a foregone conclusions. Rats, vermin, mosquitoes, disease, and contamination of all sorts will result in a massive humanitarian crisis. How many deaths have truly occurred so far? Disease, ie. Cholera, Typhoid, Leptospirosis..Malaria..etc.? Electrocutions? Shootings of looters and bandits? Not that they shouldn't be shot, but let's get the true statistics and the scale. Let's dig up another "expert" to answer these questions. Many are waiting for their 15 minute of fame.

[petedk]

There are so many "experts" with so many different opinions.

What difference does it make? Bangkok is almost certain to be flooded. Maybe the "experts" that say Bangkok would remain dry knew all along that it would flood but tried to calm people down by saying it wouldn't flood.

[cloudhopper]

Where was this professor earlier?if he is an "expert" why wasn't he consulted all along? Doesn't make sense that 2-3 months into the flood that he is being tracked down. Who will be the next secret "expert" to emerge? Of course, it's easy to see that Bangkok will be overcome by flood water and if not through the canals and streets..ie.Sukhumvit, then through the ground, floors, and foundations of buildings. It's a foregone conclusions. Rats, vermin, mosquitoes, disease, and contamination of all sorts will result in a massive humanitarian crisis. How many deaths have truly occurred so far? Disease, ie. Cholera, Typhoid, Leptospirosis..Malaria..etc.? Electrocutions? Shootings of looters and bandits? Not that they shouldn't be shot, but let's get the true statistics and the scale. Let's dig up another "expert" to answer these questions. Many are waiting for their 15 minute of fame.

Exactly. The cultural dysfunction repressing the acknowledgement of scientific realities is about to meet some Darwinian consequences.

[Thai at Heart]

Basic maths proves that there is little or no chance that most of Bangkok will not be flooded. There is simply too much water over too wide an area, and the easiest path out for some of it is going to be through Bangkok. It will not and cannot be moved, pushed or pumped quickly enough to another path. Simple.

The complete failure to manage this excessive rain which started in May/June up North shows ineptitude on a massive scale. The idea of letting the damns get to 100% full with a long period of the rainy season remaining was absolute idiocy. Of course, preserving water for irrigation is a important, but I think Somchai Simpson needs slightly better planning than we see now. Actively creating a catastrophe like this is criminal.

There are rumours that political influence had something to do with the strategy at the damns. If that is true, I suggest that every politician be given a bath tub for xmas so that they can start to understand what happens when a vessel is filling up faster than it can discharge the water down the plug. There are some extremely knowledgeable people in the irrigation and marine departments, the rivers have been mapped pretty accurately, and they have more than adequate rain and run off calculations.

If it is proven that a political "pooyai" interfered with normal operation of the damns, then I hope the people of the country show him or her a little mercy.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[cloghead]

Who is this mysterious politician that ordered the dams to remain closed? A week ago I saw his name mentioned but since then all references to him have disappeared...

[Neurath]

Where was this professor earlier?if he is an "expert" why wasn't he consulted all along? Doesn't make sense that 2-3 months into the flood that he is being tracked down. Who will be the next secret "expert" to emerge? Of course, it's easy to see that Bangkok will be overcome by flood water and if not through the canals and streets..ie.Sukhumvit, then through the ground, floors, and foundations of buildings. It's a foregone conclusions. Rats, vermin, mosquitoes, disease, and contamination of all sorts will result in a massive humanitarian crisis. How many deaths have truly occurred so far? Disease, ie. Cholera, Typhoid, Leptospirosis..Malaria..etc.? Electrocutions? Shootings of looters and bandits? Not that they shouldn't be shot, but let's get the true statistics and the scale. Let's dig up another "expert" to answer these questions. Many are waiting for their 15 minute of fame.

Exactly. The cultural dysfunction repressing the acknowledgement of scientific realities is about to meet some Darwinian consequences.

I've noticed of late that this cultural dysfunction is fairly widespread - what a perfect situation if the cultural dysfunction denying the reality of evolutionary scientific realities met some Darwinian consequences. Not many left in the US primaries for a start

I can think of one other major scientific reality whose acknowledgment is denied - but hell, that denial is both common and rather vehement right here.

On the water, sure, seems like the volume is just too large to channel by Khlong and Pipe to the gulf without also wetting the feet of downtown toe steppers.

[robblok]

Who is this mysterious politician that ordered the dams to remain closed? A week ago I saw his name mentioned but since then all references to him have disappeared...

I am curious about that too..

[FOODLOVER]

Wowsers, the truth! What a concept! Does this man have a day job? Hey FROCers, hire this man!

[Ned]

I've heard that the Chao Phraya River is no higher than it was weeks ago. It's scandalous!!

[frodo]

He said the ministry had documented illegal buildings on the canals and would refer those details to the Marine Department (Transport Ministry) so the buildings could be demolished or moved as part of post-flood restoration work. "There should be a major overhaul of this issue after the flooding," he said.

Post-flood restoration? Why not do it now so the water can run where it's supposed to. Yesterday the claim was these were illegal luxury homes and golf courses. The government did ask that people above Bangkok to sacrifice their homes, why are these people so special? They're not part of inner or central Bangkok and like everyone else should also be forced to sacrifice like many of us were forced to do. Illegal luxury homes versus a squatter, there is no difference.

Edited November 6, 2011 by frodo

[w11guy]

Where was this professor earlier?if he is an "expert" why wasn't he consulted all along? Doesn't make sense that 2-3 months into the flood that he is being tracked down. Who will be the next secret "expert" to emerge? Of course, it's easy to see that Bangkok will be overcome by flood water and if not through the canals and streets..ie.Sukhumvit, then through the ground, floors, and foundations of buildings. It's a foregone conclusions. Rats, vermin, mosquitoes, disease, and contamination of all sorts will result in a massive humanitarian crisis. How many deaths have truly occurred so far? Disease, ie. Cholera, Typhoid, Leptospirosis..Malaria..etc.? Electrocutions? Shootings of looters and bandits? Not that they shouldn't be shot, but let's get the true statistics and the scale. Let's dig up another "expert" to answer these questions. Many are waiting for their 15 minute of fame.

Please get a grip on reality.

[KKvampire]

On BBC World TV they have spoken to aid agency workers and they are saying the situation is extremely bad , not enough drinking bottled water and medicines for those who are sick, and now people who have no income because of no work are relying on donations . WHEN IS THIS THAI GOVERNMENT GOING TO ASK FOR MORE INTERNATIONAL HELP? Because clearly it can;t deal with whats happening, Shameful.

[jimbeam1]

I've heard that the Chao Phraya River is no higher than it was weeks ago. It's scandalous!!

The Chao Praya River. Last Thursday 3/11/2011

jb1

Edited November 6, 2011 by jimbeam1

[DocN]

Finally! A(nother)expert! And this time he tells us...what is obvious to everybody. Man...I am a water- expert too. Put a glas of beer and a glas of water in front of me. 2 out of 3 times I will find the water and I will know, how to avoid it! Put me on TV!

[chainarong]

As the Vampire said, time to get international aid, but , please don't put obstacles in their way, so they can't operate properly , not like the governments continued interference in the French aid agency, Doctors without boarders, who pulled the pin and left , northern Thailand.

[BlueTerrace]

He said the ministry had documented illegal buildings on the canals and would refer those details to the Marine Department (Transport Ministry) so the buildings could be demolished or moved as part of post-flood restoration work. "There should be a major overhaul of this issue after the flooding," he said.

Post-flood restoration? Why not do it now so the water can run where it's supposed to. Yesterday the claim was these were illegal luxury homes and golf courses. The government did ask that people above Bangkok to sacrifice their homes, why are these people so special? They're not part of inner or central Bangkok and like everyone else should also be forced to sacrifice like many of us were forced to do. Illegal luxury homes versus a squatter, there is no difference.

Hear, Hear! any illeagal structure that impedes the canals or water flow should go.

And while they're at it, take down the name of the bureaucrat in charge when the structure was built and throw his incompetant/corrupt arse in jail along with the developers...( can practically gaurantee this won't happen).

[Morgo]

I hope the ministry shows the same resolve to remove the structures from the klongs, as it did when removing structures from Khao Yai ( Nam Khiao). If they are the same people, then their in for a double whammy. Maybe removing structures from the klongs might even be more important than national park encroachments.

[noitom]

He said the ministry had documented illegal buildings on the canals and would refer those details to the Marine Department (Transport Ministry) so the buildings could be demolished or moved as part of post-flood restoration work. "There should be a major overhaul of this issue after the flooding," he said.

Post-flood restoration? Why not do it now so the water can run where it's supposed to. Yesterday the claim was these were illegal luxury homes and golf courses. The government did ask that people above Bangkok to sacrifice their homes, why are these people so special? They're not part of inner or central Bangkok and like everyone else should also be forced to sacrifice like many of us were forced to do. Illegal luxury homes versus a squatter, there is no difference.

Hear, Hear! any illeagal structure that impedes the canals or water flow should go.

And while they're at it, take down the name of the bureaucrat in charge when the structure was built and throw his incompetant/corrupt arse in jail along with the developers...( can practically gaurantee this won't happen).

Jail is not sufficient. It's time to cleanup this place. These scoundrels should all be rounded up, fined heavily and the money given to the poor, and then an old fashioned tar and feathering and paraded around the rice fields, farms, villages, and factories that got flooded out so that ordinary Thais could see who did this to them.

[Payboy]

Finally! A(nother)expert! And this time he tells us...what is obvious to everybody. Man...I am a water- expert too. Put a glas of beer and a glas of water in front of me. 2 out of 3 times I will find the water and I will know, how to avoid it! Put me on TV!

Hey Doc, you ARE on TV.

[IMA_FARANG]

Read through most of the resposes on this topic and basically they are all nonsense.

To busy to deal with you all.

I;m gone

[KKvampire]

Read through most of the resposes on this topic and basically they are all nonsense.

To busy to deal with you all.

I;m gone

Really, incompetent officials. inept politicians? I think someone who disagrees with those facts has a fair share of their own " non sense"

[frodo]

Read through most of the resposes on this topic and basically they are all nonsense.

To busy to deal with you all.

I;m gone

I guess ILLEGALLY building luxury homes and golf courses on highly needed waterways and klongs makes perfect sense since those who own them are obviously rich. Even though they block the water from flowing to the sea and can expedite the flood water to the sea, it is okay with you. Again, there are no double standards here, are there? It's perfectly fine that hundreds of thousands of homes, including mine, should make every sacrifice to make certain these ILLEGAL luxury villa's are kept safe since the wealthy own them. By all means those responsible for this highly corrupt act should not even be touched and be permitted to walk free and continue these immoral acts. Proud of you IMA_FARANG. Will you start telling us to eat cake next and we all deserve this because "We be just po' folk"?

[DocN]

Finally! A(nother)expert! And this time he tells us...what is obvious to everybody. Man...I am a water- expert too. Put a glas of beer and a glas of water in front of me. 2 out of 3 times I will find the water and I will know, how to avoid it! Put me on TV!

Hey Doc, you ARE on TV.

ooooooops....

[ginjag]

He said the ministry had documented illegal buildings on the canals and would refer those details to the Marine Department (Transport Ministry) so the buildings could be demolished or moved as part of post-flood restoration work. "There should be a major overhaul of this issue after the flooding," he said.

Post-flood restoration? Why not do it now so the water can run where it's supposed to. Yesterday the claim was these were illegal luxury homes and golf courses. The government did ask that people above Bangkok to sacrifice their homes, why are these people so special? They're not part of inner or central Bangkok and like everyone else should also be forced to sacrifice like many of us were forced to do. Illegal luxury homes versus a squatter, there is no difference.

Hear, Hear! any illeagal structure that impedes the canals or water flow should go.

And while they're at it, take down the name of the bureaucrat in charge when the structure was built and throw his incompetant/corrupt arse in jail along with the developers...( can practically gaurantee this won't happen).

You have to be more severe than that to teach them a lesson -you move them to inactive posts. Thats what I call real Thai punishment.

[kohphangan]

No Sh1t Sherlock...

[erobando]

I'm not sure what this dude is referring to...

Elevation maps show that eastern Bangkok (e.g., from the outer ring road) is in fact lower than the central areas.

The Silom area as about 3-4 meters higher.

[Guest]

Next question to be asked: As there is more and more district which have been given evacuation orders. If the water will cause more places to be inhabitable, where the people can be placed?