paulmw Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 For some reason, I don't think 3 years, 1 month, and 2 and a bit weeks is long enough to solve the English language problems! You reap what you sow. This ASEAN AEC is going to cause big problems for Thailand. This may shed so light on the problem with (OrBorJor) or provincially run schools. (First I will say the school I was allocated to by the province was lovely the director was great so were the staff and most of the teachers.) 6 teachers were employed by a North Eastern Province last May recruited by the head of English at a well know school for the province, we were promised 30K baht + 3K accommodation, 12 month contract renewable. Visa and work permit paid for. Ok after a month we were asking when do we do the visas, when are we signing the contract? 6 weeks later we were all asked to sign the contract at a sports day cameras there etc. The contract 3 months, 24K visa and work permit we had to pay for. One guy went on a visa run for his B visa was refused by the consulate and he had to pay for this a second went again refused. The schools said could they do it as the teachers who were old hands knew what was needed; the schools were refused by the province as it was there job. (But were totally useless at it) Now a neighboring province in the North East is trying the same thing. Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disinto Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) The most useful move that the education system could make would be to Romanise the Thai alphabet, this is the biggest obstacle to learning English, and conversely for foreigners learning Thai. Just look at how Turkey emerged from the Middle Ages when it converted from Arabic to Roman. As to unqualified but native speakers, these can do an adequate job if the department also contains enough qualified and experienced teachers to provide guidance. At the moment it is often the one eyed leading the blind. I'm not a fan of the romanization at all. Even though it occurred for several south-east asian languages (Vietnamese and Malay come to mind), I believe it permanently alters and distort the language. It also smells vaguely colonial... At least, Thais are fortunate enough to have an alphabet, unlike Chinese. Edited November 14, 2011 by Disinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowslip Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) If the schools down there are only offering 'backpacker' salaries as someone stated, then that's surely all that they can hope to attract in the way of quality teaching...Who and where does the funding come from for the teaching positions anyway?Is it at an individual school admin' level or is the funding fom the local education authority?If the schools aren't serious they can not hope to fill positions with quality teachers going down this path!! are you suggesting backpackers don't make good teachers? They usually have or will have degrees and come form an educated background.....more than you can say for the comments on both the article and this thread. Edited November 14, 2011 by cowslip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masuk Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 as far as I can see this has nothing to do with hiring foreigners to teach English, it is solely concerned with hiring Thai teachers? did u read the first sentence in this article? "The Phuket Primary Education Area Office has relaxed the requirements for foreigners to be hired as English-language teachers at government schools in Phuket." Else: And of course there are English professionals out there without a degree but a good ability to teach. As well as there are qualified ones with degree who aren't worth a single satang... There are also those of us who have gained the Cambridge University English Teaching Certificate, (TEFLA) have been teaching in Asian countries for some years, but are excluded as we don't hold any kind of degree - it can be in Agriculture, Dentistry or anything, as long as you hold a degree. Technical qualifications are not included. Also, Thailand is one of the few countries, if not THE ONLY country which does not assist with a visa, air fare, accommodation. You pay your own way every step. Indonesia pays for everything, China often provides meals on site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 If Thailand cannot overcome their "superiority" attitude, and fear of "loss of face" by asking a foreigner to help, and are willing to pay for it, they are never going to get good, qualified English Teachers here. But isn't that just what they did? They offered you a job and were willing to pay for it. In stead you choose to moan here about the lack of quality of the school and that they are not willing to hire foreigners. Do something about it, you had the chance but refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparebox2 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Burma was an English colony. It has millions of English speakers train by the British (the real McCoy). Why not just hire Burmese English Teachers. Cheap and good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prvtdetdave Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Great, we'll therefore see yet another bunch of cheap "English teachers" with no real teaching accreditation and who will not care about teaching properly (just have fun, fun, fun). Yeay. What is your solution to the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvbello Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Let us hear new ideas or suggestions how we can all move forward from this situation. I hope too that Thai school officials are in the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) If Thailand cannot overcome their "superiority" attitude, and fear of "loss of face" by asking a foreigner to help, and are willing to pay for it, they are never going to get good, qualified English Teachers here. But isn't that just what they did? They offered you a job and were willing to pay for it. In stead you choose to moan here about the lack of quality of the school and that they are not willing to hire foreigners. Do something about it, you had the chance but refused. You're totally missing the point, which is that their so-called "education system" is not educating at all, and no one can change that. Even the head of the English Department said they HAVE to do things the way the SCHOOL tells them. I refuse to be a part of a system that does not actually TEACH, but only forces rote memorization. Nor did I say THAT particular school was unwilling to hire foreigners, but speaking of the Thai education system as a whole. By your comments, I can see that reading comprehension is not one of your stronger skills. Not unlike quite a few Thai I know who can read English, but have no idea of what the words actually mean. :jap: Edited November 14, 2011 by Just1Voice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prvtdetdave Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Einstein had a PhD in Mathematics and Physics, but couldn't spell. His wife wrote all of his papers before he landed in America. I also can't understand why some people think the back packers are not qualified. Evidently there is not enough teachers period, qualified or otherwise. Long story short, this is a useless thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon76 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 A lot of this has to do with the wages. I know a guy that teaches at Uni level and get less than 30K a month. But a lot of it has to do with location... we have an ELS and we're offering 60K a month... but when you say it's in Surin they're not interested. Still needing two TESOL teachers... Hi, I'm a highly qualified teacher, currently working at Singapore American School, and looking to transfer to Thailand. I'm interested in hearing more about this position.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunta71 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 If the schools down there are only offering 'backpacker' salaries as someone stated, then that's surely all that they can hope to attract in the way of quality teaching...Who and where does the funding come from for the teaching positions anyway?Is it at an individual school admin' level or is the funding fom the local education authority?If the schools aren't serious they can not hope to fill positions with quality teachers going down this path!! are you suggesting backpackers don't make good teachers? They usually have or will have degrees and come form an educated background.....more than you can say for the comments on both the article and this thread. Where do these backpackers come FORM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiChai Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 TEFL and all that; been there done that. Anyone who says teaching your own mother tongue is difficult or requires some form of 'special' expertise is pulling the wool. Teaching in Thailand is probably the most demotivating job I have ever done. Do Thais really want to learn about the outside world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anterian Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The most useful move that the education system could make would be to Romanise the Thai alphabet, this is the biggest obstacle to learning English, and conversely for foreigners learning Thai. Just look at how Turkey emerged from the Middle Ages when it converted from Arabic to Roman. As to unqualified but native speakers, these can do an adequate job if the department also contains enough qualified and experienced teachers to provide guidance. At the moment it is often the one eyed leading the blind. I'm not a fan of the romanization at all. Even though it occurred for several south-east asian languages (Vietnamese and Malay come to mind), I believe it permanently alters and distort the language. It also smells vaguely colonial... At least, Thais are fortunate enough to have an alphabet, unlike Chinese. I know several Thais who because they grew up in the West are fluent in both English and Thai, they use English when chatting by Internet, it is faster and more concise. The same goes for my Filipino and Malay friends. Additionally, to study any science at an advanced level English is essential, particularly at the citation level. There is no reason why both alphabets cannot coexist, but with a standardised transliteration rather than the present rather random one. Hebrew is a dead language which was revived, as is Welsh and Gaelic, the Thai alphabet can do the same, but ASEAN is by default adopting English as the common language. Any living language evolves (call it distortion if you wish), there are already hundreds of English words in the Thai language, so it is already distorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRescue Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Nice that you can wear jeans and t shirt for teaching (as in this photo) It would probably make the job more attractive to backpackers and young travellers wanting to make some extra income if you could dress casually. Who wants to be ironing shits for 30k a month salary Edited November 14, 2011 by Scott spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derifo Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 in the meantime we will have to hire teachers who just have English skills until we can find qualified teachers who have both English and English-teaching skills” Mr Jian explained. One of the reasons they have a shortage is the quote above. Hiring and firing isn't going to help. Most schools I know do not have any retention policy. They always fire teachers at the end of the semester, only to start looking for new ones at the beginning of another semester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theanimaster Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Well, this is EXACTLY what Thailand deserves for pulling off sh*t like the Teacher's Council of Thailand (TCT) tests and accreditation BS et. al. I wonder just how many GOOD teachers they lost through the TCT noose and how many slackers they got to replace those good teachers... I'll bet the slackers all quit a few months into their jobs as well. Maybe if this country will stop liasing with Filipino crooks and scumbags (who obviously won't give a shit what happens to THIS country... much less their own) there'd be enough white faces to fill the holes... But hey-- money still seems to talk louder than losing face, even if ever just so slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xangsamhua Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I could be wrong on this, but I read somewhere that even the current Foreign Minister cannot speak English! I'm afraid you are wrong on this, though the rest of your post was very interesting. Dr Surapong has a masters and a doctorate from the United States and has taught at university level in the US. (Doesn't mean he's the right man for the job, of course.) I think the previous Democrat Education Minister and the Deputy Minister of Education did not speak English. I heard both of them make a terrible mess of speeches written for them in English at a World Teachers' Day forum before an international gathering. On another occasion, at an English-medium (World Bank) seminar I attended the minister gave the introductory speech entirely in Thai. This is the same minister who said English could not be an official language for teaching purposes here because other countries would think Thailand had been colonized! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xangsamhua Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Who wants to be ironing shits for 30k a month salary Seems a lot just for ironing shits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiChai Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Was that teaching or ironing the... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgphuket Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Great, we'll therefore see yet another bunch of cheap "English teachers" with no real teaching accreditation and who will not care about teaching properly (just have fun, fun, fun). Yeay. Sorry but i do not agree that all non qualified teachers do not care, i am not qualified and would love to teach english to primary school kids, but how do i apply if i do not have formal qualifications? Don't take this the wrong way, but if you can't figure out how to apply for a job, you are likely not able to do said job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgphuket Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Here is a wild idea...Why not pay based on ability? backpackers; 20k, Uni degree or TESOL course; 30k, degree with experience teaching; 40k, degree in teaching English; 50k, etc. That way it would eventually weed out the riff raff while supporting the qualified teachers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaorop Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 <br /><br /><br />Great, we'll therefore see yet another bunch of cheap "English teachers" with no real teaching accreditation and who will not care about teaching properly (just have fun, fun, fun). Yeay.<br /><br /><br /><br />Sorry but i do not agree that all non qualified teachers do not care, i am not qualified and would love to teach english to primary school kids, but how do i apply if i do not have formal qualifications?<br /><br />Then you can't teach. Why the average English-speaking Joe, despite his best will, would be allowed to teach English without a certification? Teaching is no small feat and is a job like any other.<br /><br /><br /><br />How would you know he/she cant teach? Teaching requires an empathy with those who you are teaching. Droning on about phrasal verbs and exceptions etc. is a certain way to turn students off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JannoDL Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 There is obviously a problem with teaching pupils in the english language, at least in Phetchabun province, since no one in my wife's family can speak a single word of English. I bet they can say "money" and perhaps even "gold" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I could be wrong on this, but I read somewhere that even the current Foreign Minister cannot speak English! I'm afraid you are wrong on this, though the rest of your post was very interesting. Dr Surapong has a masters and a doctorate from the United States and has taught at university level in the US. (Doesn't mean he's the right man for the job, of course.) I think the previous Democrat Education Minister and the Deputy Minister of Education did not speak English. I heard both of them make a terrible mess of speeches written for them in English at a World Teachers' Day forum before an international gathering. On another occasion, at an English-medium (World Bank) seminar I attended the minister gave the introductory speech entirely in Thai. This is the same minister who said English could not be an official language for teaching purposes here because other countries would think Thailand had been colonized! Thanks for the correction. As I said, I wasn't sure, as the article was some months back, so memory may have failed me a bit. (Doesn't mean he's the right man for the job, of course.) Now, Thailand actually does have "the right man for the job" in many cases. Unfortunately, the "right man" is usually ignored and the position given to someone from the family, or a political crony, who knows nothing about the job. I remember the comment the Minister made about how English could not be an official language as other countries would think Thailand had been colonized. That one had me laughing for a very long time. Made me wonder if anyone had ever pointed out to him that both Hong King and Singapore were once colonies, but look at how far ahead of Thailand they are in just about every area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaorop Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 <br />Burma was an English colony.<br />It has millions of English speakers train by the British (the real McCoy).<br />Why not just hire Burmese English Teachers. Cheap and good.<br /><br /><br /><br />Hmmmm bring in the lowest regarded people in this region, by Thais, to teach Thai children English! Even if it would save and line pockets with, millions upon millions of baht. As good as an idea as it is, its not going to happen anytime soon if ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skorz Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 If the schools down there are only offering 'backpacker' salaries as someone stated, then that's surely all that they can hope to attract in the way of quality teaching...Who and where does the funding come from for the teaching positions anyway?Is it at an individual school admin' level or is the funding fom the local education authority?If the schools aren't serious they can not hope to fill positions with quality teachers going down this path!! there is a minimum salary requirement for a work permit. i believe its 50k a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JannoDL Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I remember the comment the Minister made about how English could not be an official language as other countries would think Thailand had been colonized. That one had me laughing for a very long time. Made me wonder if anyone had ever pointed out to him that both Hong King and Singapore were once colonies, but look at how far ahead of Thailand they are in just about every area? There is that face issue showing its ugly face again... "we cant have someone thinking bad about us... never mind what happens IRL, but lets make sure they dont think bad thoughts..." lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappalot Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 there is a minimum salary requirement for a work permit. i believe its 50k a month. What u believe is one thing. As a matter of fact teaching at government schools is an exception (of course ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JannoDL Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 If the schools down there are only offering 'backpacker' salaries as someone stated, then that's surely all that they can hope to attract in the way of quality teaching...Who and where does the funding come from for the teaching positions anyway?Is it at an individual school admin' level or is the funding fom the local education authority?If the schools aren't serious they can not hope to fill positions with quality teachers going down this path!! there is a minimum salary requirement for a work permit. i believe its 50k a month. I am pretty sure i read somewhere that the 50k rule does not apply to teachers... 30k as i recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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