Scott Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I was checking a math exam for a teacher. There was a discussion about which word is correct. If any of you are particularly good at grammar let me know which word is correct. Also, why (if possible). Like a lot of grammar questions, I often know the answer, but can't really explain why. Here's the question. Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aitch52 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Of these oranges, 7% went bad I do not claim to be a grammar expert, but that is the phrase I would use, being in the past simple tense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomallison Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Of these oranges 7% are bad. To me that would be better understood. That also comes from a non-expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beano2274 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Of these oranges 7% were bad. If you used "went bad" would you not have to use a definition of time or time phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijb Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 are bad Susy (Suzy?) has - present tense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 Thanks. In all the discussion, no one thought about re-wording it!!! However, I am still interested, from a theoretical point, which is correct. Currently there are a number of people involved in this discussion. Rewording is the most expedient method. All input is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beano2274 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) are bad Susy (Suzy?) has - present tense Present tense fact - Suzy has 400 oranges. But the second sentence does not have to be in the same tense, although it is also a fact. The question is were they bad at the beginning or did they go bad after some time. Edited December 26, 2011 by beano2274 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sysardman Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 are bad Susy (Suzy?) has - present tense Present tense fact - Suzy has 400 oranges. But the second sentence does not have to be in the same tense, although it is also a fact. The question is were they bad at the beginning or did they go bad after some time. How about - have gone bad!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) To be technically correct It should be 7% "are bad" Present Tense. Equally, it could be 7%"have gone" bad, and would still be Present Tense. So the calculation could be done accurately,at that moment in time. "I often know the answer, but can't really explain why" I think it's the way English Grammar is designed,if it sounds right,and flows, it usually is right! Edited December 26, 2011 by MAJIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 Thanks. Very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapfries Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 The question: Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good? The Answer: Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% goes bad. How many oranges are good? Explanation: The relevant verb ("to go" ) relates to "7%", which becomes, by its definition, a singular entity ('viz. 7% is . . .') hence: "goes" is correct. The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct. PN: Susy, is normally spelled "Suzy", unless the lass hails from some exotic place where her name is actually spelled that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 The question: Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good? The Answer: Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% goes bad. How many oranges are good? Explanation: The relevant verb ("to go" ) relates to "7%", which becomes, by its definition, a singular entity ('viz. 7% is . . .') hence: "goes" is correct. The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct. PN: Susy, is normally spelled "Suzy", unless the lass hails from some exotic place where her name is actually spelled that way. Not trying to be a clever dick,but I think you will find that "Susy" is short for "Susan" and "Suzy" is short for "Suzanne" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatcharanan Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I always thought 'Sue' was short for Susan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 Jaapfries, thanks for the explanation, which makes sense. I do envy people who can explain a grammar point simply and consicely. I don't recall what name was actually used. The spelling 'Susy' was my mistake. But since I asked for the grammar/spelling brigade to come out in full force, feel free to shoot at will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aridion Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 The question: Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good? The Answer: Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% goes bad. How many oranges are good? Explanation: The relevant verb ("to go" ) relates to "7%", which becomes, by its definition, a singular entity ('viz. 7% is . . .') hence: "goes" is correct. The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct. PN: Susy, is normally spelled "Suzy", unless the lass hails from some exotic place where her name is actually spelled that way. 7 per cent is same as 7 per 100. I would say that it is plural as the object of the sentence (oranges) is countable as is the answer (How many). check - http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/singular-vs-plural/subject-and-verb-agreement-with-collective-nouns/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bifftastic Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Explanation: The relevant verb ("to go" ) relates to "7%", which becomes, by its definition, a singular entity ('viz. 7% is . . .') hence: "goes" is correct. The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct. . Sorry, but if "7%" is a singular entity, then surely "7% go bad" would be correct? I believe you say that yourself when you say The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct. "7% go bad" seems to scan correctly to me, and your explanation also seems correct, it's just that you seem to slightly contradict yourself in it perhaps it was a typo? If this were a 'normal' sentence, as in something someone said as opposed to a problem posed in a maths question, then the person would say "7% have gone bad" because people wouldn't presume that 7% of something were about to go bad, that only happens in a maths question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Would you say 100% of students goes to school? I doubt it. I also doubt that; "Regarding students 80% goes to the toilet during the break.", would be correct. I Edited December 27, 2011 by harrry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QED Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 The question: Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good? The Answer: Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% goes bad. How many oranges are good? Explanation: The relevant verb ("to go" ) relates to "7%", which becomes, by its definition, a singular entity ('viz. 7% is . . .') hence: "goes" is correct. The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct. PN: Susy, is normally spelled "Suzy", unless the lass hails from some exotic place where her name is actually spelled that way. Wrong. 7% GO bad, English people would never put 'goes' in that sentence. Also, do you really want to take English lessons from somebody who cannot spell incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 yew all is rong for shure! ze korrekt anser is: "Suzee is bad and so are 7 pursant of hur 400 orantches." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Just needed to be reworded: If Suzy had 400 oranges and 28 were bad. How many would she have left assuming she was not hungry. Write 372 in the space on your answer form. More seriously. Why are the two sentences of the original question both in the present tense. The oranges have already gone bad so why do we have the present tense used. It should really be "7% of the oranges have gone bad. How many good ones do you have? Edited December 27, 2011 by harrry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firelily Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) I am not a native speaker but my instinct says it depends on the subject we are talking about. 7% of the money / milk goes missing. 7% of the oranges go missing. Edited December 27, 2011 by Firelily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 Thanks, Naam, I have had a few of those type of tests to correct as well! Thanks for the responses so far, it made for interesting conversation today at work. Everyone was getting involved, Thai English Teachers, Foreign Teachers, subject teachers, native speakers and non-native speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aridion Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I am not a native speaker but my instinct says it depends on the subject we are talking about. 7% of the money / milk goes missing. 7% of the oranges go missing. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijb Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Usage note: expressing percentages If the noun is plural, the verb is plural: 65% of children play computer games. http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/per-cent_1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan96822 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) "Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good?" JAAPFRIES is incorrect. "Seven percent go bad" is correct. Explanation: Obviously, seven percent of the oranges have gone bad, meaning more than one orange. So...if one orange went bad, one would say, "Of these oranges, one goes bad." Since you are asking whether to use the word "go" or "goes," I must clarify: Does it sound awkward? Yes. Can you say, "Of these oranges, one go bad"? No. "Goes" works because no matter if it is two oranges or twelve or twenty oranges, seven percent is a multiple -- hence: "Seven percent go bad." Just like you would say, "Of these oranges, two/twelve/twenty go bad." If Jaapfries is an English instructor, he better brush up on his subject-verb agreement rules. Edited December 28, 2011 by ivan96822 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Thanks for the input, but I think we will avoid getting into a discussion of other posters. I have some colleagues who have an extensive background in grammar and they often get into heated arguments about pedantic grammar points. They are even able to cite published sources with different opinions. Your thoughts on the issue and the explanations are appreciated, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty147 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Hi Scott I agree that your exam question should be reworded using 'have'. However, to answer your question with regards to subject-verb agreement in the present simple tense, my opinion is as follows. Any 'part' be it a fraction, decimal or percentage is singular when the subject is uncountable and plural when the subject is countable. Let's agree that apples are countable and rice is uncountable therefore - "7% of the apples are red and half are green" "7% of the rice is brown and half is white" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 7% have gone bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 7% have gone bad. I doth most certainly agree. BTW, does anyone have Susie's phone number? All those ripe, plump, juicy...oranges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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