crs Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The XR 250L had a curb weight of @130kg, right? : / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taichiplanet Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 This was what I was wishing for... http://powersports.h...eet/motard.aspx easy enough to put 17" rims on the CRF250L, would be a nice city bike if the price was 100k, but even if that is the RRP the dealers will probably add 10-20k on top!! Comparing the weight of the CRF250s - the L is 147kg, the X is 115 kgs and the R is 102 kgs. The CRF230F is 114 kgs, even the CRF230L is only 121 kgs, so why is the 250L so much heavier? Hopefully the info from Honda Australia is wrong!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_boo Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Curb = 147? Balls to that then! Apart from spending crazy money on a new KTM Freeride (nice), what are the options for getting a plated and booked trails bike that's some lighter than the KLX? Are there any older models that make sense with regard to price and spares prices/availability? Pretty sure 'no' is the short answer but... Frikin import tax! From the dynos I've been able to find on google images for the KLX it seems that as long as Honda doesn't detune the engine too much (say ~8% max down on peak HP) the weight/power ratio should be about the same. The same dynos seem to indicate that the Kawi peaks and is rapidly downhill; I don't know if that run was in a gear where the restrictor was operating or not though. The CBR engine is more consistent in power delivery. I also question how much clearance you're actually going to use on either of these bikes. Are the frames going to hold up to fully utilising all that suspension travel? Are you looking at dyno runs for the carb'd KLX or the FI KLX? Remember, the Thai KLX250 is fuel injected and restricted. Fortunately it's quite easy and cheap to derestrict and there are TONS of aftermarket parts for all versions of the KLX since it's been around for so many years. The hefty weight and lower ground clearance of the new Honda CRF250L is not good news. Perhaps Honda will beat the KLX250 on price. Seems that's Honda's strategy these days... Build cheap bikes and sell them in volume. I'm not sure, that's why I did not include the dyno graph. I also put the caevat in there that it may be a restricted gear (is third restrited?). The pic claimed it was a 2009 model, and it being in Spanish I can not be sure. In the thread I found it in, they were talking about ECUs where the thread starter did some major cam work and ended up with 25 HP that still dropped off to ~14 some 2200 RPM later... Of interest (?) to you is this dyno for a 350cc bore-up for the KLX: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Of interest (?) to you is this dyno for a 350cc bore-up for the KLX: Woohoo! Now we're talkin'! There are a number of different big bore kits for the KLX250. Some keep the stock FI and use a fuel injection controller to fatten up the fueling, others, like the one I've got remove the FI and replace with a carb. I've only just started looking into all of the mods available for the KLX250 and wow, there sure is a lot of kit out there for this bike! It's got a real loyal following over on advrider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikster Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 the cbr250 is 161 kg (non-abs). As long as the engine on the CRF is not restricted and with the lighter weight (compared to the CBR) it will make a decent motard, but as a trail bike ???? To keep the price low maybe the suspension will be compromised and i wonder if it will stand up to some bush bashing. Maybe the bike is intended for use on flood ravaged roads in Thailand, rather than off road! Well all the advertising material so far had only very mild off road scenery on it... e.g., a dirt road through a corn field... etc. No pix of hardcore off road action, single trails, steep hills.. I guess that's the idea... this is the decaf version of the CRF250R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikster Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 This was what I was wishing for... http://powersports.h...eet/motard.aspx I am guessing this will come eventually... a CRF250L motard mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deemon Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I don’t buy that Honda gain the weight with 27kg from the old Crf230. For sure it will be almost same weight as the Kawasaki. And I think the suspension will be the same too. Maybe the Honda will be a bit less aggressive than the klx, Honda always build bikes that are a little more less aggressive and more easy to drive. I don’t think they use less expensive suspension component’s than Kawasaki. In my experience Honda is in another class than other Japanese bikes, the quality of a Honda is completely different than any other Japanese bike. I have owned many Japanese bikes but in the end Honda is da shit lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 In my experience Honda is in another class than other Japanese bikes, the quality of a Honda is completely different than any other Japanese bike. I have owned many Japanese bikes but in the end Honda is da shit lol 10 years ago I'd have agreed with you. But in recent years Honda has been creating a lot of disappointing bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deemon Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 In my experience Honda is in another class than other Japanese bikes, the quality of a Honda is completely different than any other Japanese bike. I have owned many Japanese bikes but in the end Honda is da shit lol 10 years ago I'd have agreed with you. But in recent years Honda has been creating a lot of disappointing bikes. Unfortunately I have to agree with you a little bit. But I still hope that Honda don’t disappoint me with this bike. We have to remember that all of these bikes, no matter if it is Honda or Kawasaki, are made for fun on small roads and in the forest. My last dirt bike, when I live in Sweden, was a WR 450, so I am not a Honda seller lol. But to ride in high competition on a handmade motocross track is a complete different thing. You will need a brand new Cr450r or similar and buy new shock absorbers from Öhlins (maybe because I am Swedish) or a another brand to get it to work well. And I think you Big bike BKK can be lucky to get your hand on a really good bike with that 350 big bore kit. Anyway, I think the new Honda 250 f will have the same weight as Klx250 and almost same power. The one who lives will see! Anyway I will order one to have fun with here on our small island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Anyway, I think the new Honda 250 f will have the same weight as Klx250 Honda Australia seems to think it is 10kg heavier than the KLX though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deemon Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Anyway, I think the new Honda 250 f will have the same weight as Klx250 Honda Australia seems to think it is 10kg heavier than the KLX though... Yes and i still hope that information is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_boo Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Anyway, I think the new Honda 250 f will have the same weight as Klx250 Honda Australia seems to think it is 10kg heavier than the KLX though... I'm still struggling to understand how. As mentioned above it doesn't make sense that the bike would be heavier than the older 230. It should be a smaller lighter engine. Is the frame more solid? Are the emission controls heavier? Does the FI really add that much weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taninthai Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Change the exhaust and wheels and get rid of all the lights you could probably lose 10-15 kg I think some people are expecting to much from this bike think yourselfs lucky your not buying it in the west where it's gonna be at 50-80 k more expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deemon Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Anyway, I think the new Honda 250 f will have the same weight as Klx250 Honda Australia seems to think it is 10kg heavier than the KLX though... I'm still struggling to understand how. As mentioned above it doesn't make sense that the bike would be heavier than the older 230. It should be a smaller lighter engine. Is the frame more solid? Are the emission controls heavier? Does the FI really add that much weight? I am struggling to. The new engine from the cbr250 is lighter for sure and the frame looks lighter to. And the new model would be that much heavier …I don’t buy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Change the exhaust and wheels and get rid of all the lights you could probably lose 10-15 kg I think some people are expecting to much from this bike think yourselfs lucky your not buying it in the west where it's gonna be at 50-80 k more expensive You could do that to a KLX as well (which I would), so it's still 10kg heavier.... It could easily be a lot heavier than the CRF230, it has a bigger, more complex water cooled engine. And the bike is physically bigger in size as well. I hope the figure is wrong but I doubt it is. I will want to get whichever one is better off road, at the moment that looks like the KLX due to the poor ground clearance and heavy weight of the CRF. Why expecting too much? Is it too much to ask that a new model might be even slightly better than it's competition? I don't think so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taninthai Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Change the exhaust and wheels and get rid of all the lights you could probably lose 10-15 kg I think some people are expecting to much from this bike think yourselfs lucky your not buying it in the west where it's gonna be at 50-80 k more expensive You could do that to a KLX as well (which I would), so it's still 10kg heavier.... It could easily be a lot heavier than the CRF230, it has a bigger, more complex water cooled engine. And the bike is physically bigger in size as well. I hope the figure is wrong but I doubt it is. I will want to get whichever one is better off road, at the moment that looks like the KLX due to the poor ground clearance and heavy weight of the CRF. Why expecting too much? Is it too much to ask that a new model might be even slightly better than it's competition? I don't think so! You can't really expect it to be better and at the same time cheaper than it's competition there doesntvseem much difference between the two only price and weight. The problem will be the price if it comes in at 110-115 k it's a bargain unfortunately we don't know price yet and with dealers adding on there bit on top it could be more like 120-130k. The klx is no lightweight at 138 kg but most owners seem more than happy with there bikes a difference of 10 kg between the two doesnt bother me now if the klx was 120 kg and Honda realeasef the crf at 147kg then yes it becomes a no brainer of which bike you would buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I am sure people who are not bothered about off road performance will buy them, but for people looking for a trail bike which is good off road, the KLX looks like it will be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taninthai Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I am sure people who are not bothered about off road performance will buy them, but for people looking for a trail bike which is good off road, the KLX looks like it will be better. As said there is not alot in it but if the klx is quite possibly 35,000 bht more than the crf I would expect it to be a little better,for me I'm gonna be using it more through jungle trails then road use but as a complete novice on trails I think the crf will do me just fine. At the moment I can't see what warrants spending the extra 35,000 bht for the klx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Change the exhaust and wheels and get rid of all the lights you could probably lose 10-15 kg I think some people are expecting to much from this bike think yourselfs lucky your not buying it in the west where it's gonna be at 50-80 k more expensive Or buy a KLX250 which is proven tough and weighs only 138kg wet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crs Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 taninthai - as a complete novice on jungle trails, I'd reckon you'd some gain appreciation for a lightish bike. Maybe hire a klx and go try man-handling it on rough/wet/slippery/steep/tricky routes for a while. (Unless you're a big guy, doubt you'd think it easy.) Then you might understand the grumbles better perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taninthai Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Crs I fully understand the grumbles my point being none of these bike are gonna be easy for doing what you say you really want a bike less than 120 kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You really want the lightest possible...which is the KLX, none of them are lightweights but that doesn't mean you can just ignore the weight differences between them. I can't see a single reason to buy the CRF if you are going to be using it of road at all, it hardly has any ground clearance either, which is a very important consideration for off road riding. With the lower seat height and less ground clearance it probably has less suspension as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wana Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You really want the lightest possible...which is the KLX, none of them are lightweights but that doesn't mean you can just ignore the weight differences between them. I can't see a single reason to buy the CRF if you are going to be using it of road at all, it hardly has any ground clearance either, which is a very important consideration for off road riding. With the lower seat height and less ground clearance it probably has less suspension as well. i can think of 60,000 reasons to get the crf IF it comes in at 100k but i dont need serious off road mountain climbing vehicle ,i would just keep it for a fun bike in bkk i dont know how reliable these specifications are from the australian site either i dont think it should only be a dozen or so kilos lighter than the cbr250r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You really want the lightest possible...which is the KLX, none of them are lightweights but that doesn't mean you can just ignore the weight differences between them. I can't see a single reason to buy the CRF if you are going to be using it of road at all, it hardly has any ground clearance either, which is a very important consideration for off road riding. With the lower seat height and less ground clearance it probably has less suspension as well. i can think of 60,000 reasons to get the crf IF it comes in at 100k i would just keep it for a fun bike in bkk Being 50,000 (probably will be more like 20,000 though) cheaper than the KLX does not make it worth getting in my opinion, as the KLX is still a cheap bike. I am looking for the best performance, not to save a few baht, I was considering getting a KTM Freeride at 450,000! Why would you buy a trail bike for riding around the city, are you going to get some 17" wheels for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crs Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 IF you could use the 20-50k savings and use that to replace heavy bits, etc to then make it a lighter/better bike then the KLX, THEN I'd buy it... I know I don't want anything heavier than a KLX - and really want something lighter. It's no good saving a bit then ending up not liking your bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wana Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You really want the lightest possible...which is the KLX, none of them are lightweights but that doesn't mean you can just ignore the weight differences between them. I can't see a single reason to buy the CRF if you are going to be using it of road at all, it hardly has any ground clearance either, which is a very important consideration for off road riding. With the lower seat height and less ground clearance it probably has less suspension as well. i can think of 60,000 reasons to get the crf IF it comes in at 100k i would just keep it for a fun bike in bkk Being 50,000 (probably will be more like 20,000 though) cheaper than the KLX does not make it worth getting in my opinion, as the KLX is still a cheap bike. I am looking for the best performance, not to save a few baht, I was considering getting a KTM Freeride at 450,000! Why would you buy a trail bike for riding around the city, are you going to get some 17" wheels for it? il use it on the weekends for around the rubber tree plantation but for the city i think it would be cool also hopping up and down pavements ,soaking up the potholes instead of swerving dangerously around them il probably only keep it about 6 months and then sell it ,unless its more fun than i thought my local honda dealer says the first one he gets is mine if i want it but if i dont like it or its dearer than the klx il probably not bother and order something else instead i will hold off if a made in thailand cbr 400 or 600 is announced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Honda built a XL200R (factory legal dual sport) in the early eighties that weighed less than 260lbs. This new 320lb Honda CRF250L weighs almost as much as a XRL650 or KLR650 but will have half the power, a lot less ground clearance and very basic suspension.... What a shame Kawasaki still doesn't sell the KLR650 in Thailand! It's manufactured here but until they add FI it seems they are unable to get it to meet the strict Thai emissions standards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlycw Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Q: What's the price tag gonna be?? It's March, the month of the rumored launch day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taichiplanet Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 i like the looks of this one. though i doubt it can be road registered and weight is not given or price. Compression is 9.0:1 so will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX. Anyone have more info? http://atv.co.th/atv_detail_31.php Product Name: ZF250 cc. Engine 4-stroke - cooled by water. Compression ratio. 9.0: 1. Cylinder capacity. 250 c. Lubrication system. The pump rotor. The ignition system. CDI. Carburettor VM-49. Ignition system. Start, Kick. Clutch system. Mechanism. Fuel. Gasoline 91. Capacity fuel tank. 5 liters. Transmission. Content Standard 5-matrix. Oil capacity. 1 liter. Dimension. Length X width X height. 840x2, 160x1, 220 mm Height from floor to seat. 980 mm The height of the motor unit to the State. 330 mm The center. The front - back 1490 mm Turning circle. 2100 mm Suspension. Front UP SIDE DOWN. Rear Single shock absorber. Brake system. Front Disc brakes. Rear Disc brakes. Tyres Front 80/100-21 ". Rear 110/100-18 ". Body Color. Black / orange / red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deemon Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 i like the looks of this one. though i doubt it can be road registered and weight is not given or price. Compression is 9.0:1 so will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX. Anyone have more info? http://atv.co.th/atv_detail_31.php It is a moto-x bike! Why do you think it will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX? Compression and power is not the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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