Pros And Cons Of Different Building Blocks

[JoePai]

One thing no one has mentioned is the modern super reflective paints to use on outside walls. I used an Australian brand, available in Thailand. It claimed to reflect 80% of incident radiation, my house is definitely cooler now.

Interesting - what is the name - or website address please ?

[necronx99]

One thing no one has mentioned is the modern super reflective paints to use on outside walls. I used an Australian brand, available in Thailand. It claimed to reflect 80% of incident radiation, my house is definitely cooler now.

Interesting - what is the name - or website address please ?

This is one,

http://www.dulux.com.au/products/dulux-exterior-products/dulux-weathershield-heat-reflect

http://www.dulux.co.th/products_display.jsp Thaland

[sezze]

One thing no one has mentioned is the modern super reflective paints to use on outside walls. I used an Australian brand, available in Thailand. It claimed to reflect 80% of incident radiation, my house is definitely cooler now.

Interesting - what is the name - or website address please ?

This is one,

http://www.dulux.com...ld-heat-reflect

http://www.dulux.co....cts_display.jsp Thaland

All big paint names in Thailand have similar products in their range . I'm not sure if they really help for heat , but as purpose of paint , it is good quality .

[anterian]

One thing no one has mentioned is the modern super reflective paints to use on outside walls. I used an Australian brand, available in Thailand. It claimed to reflect 80% of incident radiation, my house is definitely cooler now.

Interesting - what is the name - or website address please ?

This is one,

http://www.dulux.com...ld-heat-reflect

http://www.dulux.co....cts_display.jsp Thaland

All big paint names in Thailand have similar products in their range . I'm not sure if they really help for heat , but as purpose of paint , it is good quality .

i can vouch that they do make a big difference to the internal heat. Although dearer than normal 4 seasons type paint, they are much more durable. I used to paint my outside walls annually, now since I used this paint 3 years ago I have not had to repaint.

[crazykopite]

Superblock/Q-Con is the best value.

Best value on what points ?? Breeze blocks are way cheaper , and have near the same building time . Insulation value of the Q-con is the best , but doubling up the breeze blocks gives probably better value then the q-con . The prize difference is , even with doubled walls , still quite something . I do not see the value of the Q-con blocks .

breeze block you can go up 5 courses at a time super block you can keep going and going and going plus isulation is far better !!!!!

[crazykopite]

Reflection and emissivity by surfaces can ONLY occur in SPACE. The ideal space is any dimension 3/4" or more. Smaller spaces are also effective, but decreasingly so. Where there is no air space, we have conduction through solids. When a reflective surface of a material is attached to a ceiling, floor or wall, that particular surface ceases to have radiant insulation value at the points in contact.

So in that case, if we simply "pack" the space between blocks with fiberglass and foil, have we essentially "foiled" our efforts.

Would it actually be better to glue foil to one wall of blocks?

edit: added second quote and comments

Fiberglass and materials like styrofoam have very good insulation properties because they conduct heat very poorly.

The ideal material would be a small layer of styrofoam with aluminum foil on the side where you want the heat kept out.

innerwall, styrofoam, aluminum foil, space 1 or more inches, outer wall.

The aluminum reflects the radiant heat and the styrofoam helps to restrict conduction of the rest. Adding another styrofoam/aluminum foil to the outer wall will reduce it even further but the extra cost will not be worthwhile.

The outer wall should be 'thin' and the innerwall should be thick.

The outer wall will radiate heat out more quickly, although in Thailand the differences in temperatures during the day is not that big (small delta T).

Having an airflow in the space between the walls would replace hotter air with cooler air lowering the temperature even a little bit more and will prevent moisture buildup that can cause mold.

The innerwall functions as a heatsink. If you use airconditioning the innerwall cools down and will help to reduce temperature fluctuations between airconditioning cycles because of its thermal mass.

A good way to keep the house cool is to ensure a good roof overhang and lots of undercover out door terrace.

[crazykopite]

Reflection and emissivity by surfaces can ONLY occur in SPACE. The ideal space is any dimension 3/4" or more. Smaller spaces are also effective, but decreasingly so. Where there is no air space, we have conduction through solids. When a reflective surface of a material is attached to a ceiling, floor or wall, that particular surface ceases to have radiant insulation value at the points in contact.

So in that case, if we simply "pack" the space between blocks with fiberglass and foil, have we essentially "foiled" our efforts.

Would it actually be better to glue foil to one wall of blocks?

edit: added second quote and comments

Fiberglass and materials like styrofoam have very good insulation properties because they conduct heat very poorly.

The ideal material would be a small layer of styrofoam with aluminum foil on the side where you want the heat kept out.

innerwall, styrofoam, aluminum foil, space 1 or more inches, outer wall.

The aluminum reflects the radiant heat and the styrofoam helps to restrict conduction of the rest. Adding another styrofoam/aluminum foil to the outer wall will reduce it even further but the extra cost will not be worthwhile.

The outer wall should be 'thin' and the innerwall should be thick.

The outer wall will radiate heat out more quickly, although in Thailand the differences in temperatures during the day is not that big (small delta T).

Having an airflow in the space between the walls would replace hotter air with cooler air lowering the temperature even a little bit more and will prevent moisture buildup that can cause mold.

The innerwall functions as a heatsink. If you use airconditioning the innerwall cools down and will help to reduce temperature fluctuations between airconditioning cycles because of its thermal mass.

A good way to keep the house cool is to ensure a good roof overhang and lots of undercover out door terrace.

You could also use large egg trays they are good for 2 things insulation and soundproofing

[Kwasaki]

Superblock/Q-Con is the best value.

Best value on what points ?? Breeze blocks are way cheaper , and have near the same building time . Insulation value of the Q-con is the best , but doubling up the breeze blocks gives probably better value then the q-con . The prize difference is , even with doubled walls , still quite something . I do not see the value of the Q-con blocks .

breeze block you can go up 5 courses at a time super block you can keep going and going and going plus isulation is far better !!!!!

Your missing the point, costs are involved here and you still need beams to take the roof whatever you use.

[janverbeem]

qcon/superblocks are very porous so should not be used for outside walls in my opinion.

[David006]

Unmentioned advantage and disadvantage of the superblock.

If you are doing anything 'unusual' in the construction it is very easy to work and shape into curves and other shapes, similar to wood in many respects.

If you plan on hanging anything on the walls it is weak and special fixings are required, particualrly for heavy items like a plasma.

FAIRY TALE! NOTHING special required, walls are NOT weak! this is the second home i built with superblock, living in it since 6½ years, everything is fixed with normal wall anchors and screws including upper kitchen cupboards loaded with heavy crockery and glass items.

Happy stand corrected Naam, my lumpy brown friend.

If we are going to get along here you are going to have to accept the fact that quite often, I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about!

lol...

have all three types of bricks in our house..builder recommended the lightweight jobbies for the weight in upper level...then proceeded to build massive reenforced concrete lintels and frames for windows and doors .house is like a fricking bunker strength wise..to his credit though..happy happy.

Many may have noticed that the wall builders tend to fill in upper parts of a block wall with bricks at an angle..not sure if this is a method or just easier than cutting the blocks..?

I agree with Naam that the lightweight blocks are more than strong enough to support kitchen cupboards etc with good plugs and screw length...it is shear force after all ...Bigger problem with the hollow blocks as no holding area for plugs once into cavity..cavity butterfly bolts are probably the answer there...

When we bought our lightweight blocks they told us we needed specially formulated cement ( more expensive of course!)..bought a load and then run out ..could not source any more so used regular green bag cement....seemed okay..go figure.

Gonna brick in another part of the under-house area for another bedroom and a workshop ( toy box as the wifey says)...using cheap blocks...houses ain't Stradivarius violins they is just boxes to keep the rain out after all..

re keeping a house cool...we planted banana trees ...better than an umbrella and you can eat the fruit

[canopy]

I've been reading through this topic. Is a correct synopsis that AAC blocks offer every single advantage and traditional bricks and blocks are disadvantageous in every way and anyone who doesn't use AAC for all interior and exterior walls is making a misinformed choice?

[necronx99]

I've been reading through this topic. Is a correct synopsis that AAC blocks offer every single advantage and traditional bricks and blocks are disadvantageous in every way and anyone who doesn't use AAC for all interior and exterior walls is making a misinformed choice?

It is a superior product in all respects except (debatable) price.

[Gary A]

A friend of mine is adding on to an existing house. I got a first hand experience of the insulating qualities of the white light weight blocks and the common small red bricks. Neither wall was yet rendered. With the sun shining brightly on the outside of the wall, the red bricks were actually hot to the touch while the insulating blocks felt the same as the room temperature. I would think that the insulating blocks should be used for rooms that will be air conditioned.

[Naam]

qcon/superblocks are very porous so should not be used for outside walls in my opinion.

that is correct but applies only to those who run out of money and can't afford plastering

[Naam]

A good way to keep the house cool is to ensure a good roof overhang and lots of undercover out door terrace.

and the best way to keep a house cool is to provide ~600btu/h aircon cooling capacity per m²

[klikster]

I agree with Naam that the lightweight blocks are more than strong enough to support kitchen cupboards etc with good plugs and screw length...it is shear force after all ..

What size plugs and screw depth are recommended?

[klikster]

I agree with Naam that the lightweight blocks are more than strong enough to support kitchen cupboards etc with good plugs and screw length...it is shear force after all ...

I got to thinking about this and have another comment / question. It would seem that more forces are involved than just shear forces? Seems to me there are significant cantilever (?) effects, especially from weight on the lower shelves, trying to pivot the cabinet (bottom of cabinet as fulcrum) which would be exerting a pulling force on the anchors -- especially the top anchors.

Note: Given the nomenclature I'm using it should be abundantly obvious that I am not an engineer.

[Kwasaki]

I agree with Naam that the lightweight blocks are more than strong enough to support kitchen cupboards etc with good plugs and screw length...it is shear force after all ..

What size plugs and screw depth are recommended?

Use hollow wall anchors the longer the better depending on the weight of the unit or structure you want to hang on a superblock or lightweight block wall.

They are available in Homepro, Homemart etc etc maybe the place that sells the superblocks stocks them.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Kwasaki

[klikster]

I agree with Naam that the lightweight blocks are more than strong enough to support kitchen cupboards etc with good plugs and screw length...it is shear force after all ..

What size plugs and screw depth are recommended?

Use hollow wall anchors the longer the better depending on the weight of the unit or structure you want to hang on a superblock or lightweight block wall.

They are available in Homepro, Homemart etc etc maybe the place that sells the superblocks stocks them.

When mounted in superblock will those expanding type actually snug up to the mounting surface?

[Kwasaki]

I agree with Naam that the lightweight blocks are more than strong enough to support kitchen cupboards etc with good plugs and screw length...it is shear force after all ..

What size plugs and screw depth are recommended?

Use hollow wall anchors the longer the better depending on the weight of the unit or structure you want to hang on a superblock or lightweight block wall.

They are available in Homepro, Homemart etc etc maybe the place that sells the superblocks stocks them.

When mounted in superblock will those expanding type actually snug up to the mounting surface?

There are different types so If I understand what you are trying to say, Yes !! lf you fix them correctly.

Google image is good.

http://www.google.co.th/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1015&bih=563&q=hollow+wall+anchors+sizes&gbv=2&oq=Hollow+wall+anch&aq=5S&aqi=g2g-S8&aql=&gs_sm=1&gs_upl=13890l30125l0l47093l26l26l2l10l3l0l235l2861l0.3.11l14l0

[Beardog]

Klikster We have superblock & user the standard size 7 plugs. One of our kitchen cabinets has about 60 kilo's of food stock & never had a problem with strength.

We built 2 house first test house regular brick mixed with red brick. The house was the best pizza oven we could have made. We knocked it down & on the second real house we used all superblock inside & out. This house is built 1 mtr. off the ground has 3.2 meter ceilings & is always cool Albeit for hot season. The house is in Bang Saray & always has a great flow of air going through the house. The floor is actually cold all day & night long. 1 aircon we use at night for an hour before snoozing.

Superblock rocks!!!! And we got lucky only 8 cracks on walls comparing to 100 plus houses built in this area. We had a great renderer . All cracks were superficial & have been repaired.

The Superblock with high grade paint inside & out keeps the moisture out. Night & day from red block & cinder to aerated Superblock or Qcon . Now if I was going to build a pizza oven - the red brick is best to hold in heat!

Edited February 12, 2012 by Beardog

[klikster]

Klikster We have superblock & user the standard size 7 plugs. One of our kitchen cabinets has about 60 kilo's of food stock & never had a problem with strength.

We built 2 house first test house regular brick mixed with red brick. The house was the best pizza oven we could have made. We knocked it down & on the second real house we used all superblock inside & out. This house is built 1 mtr. off the ground has 3.2 meter ceilings & is always cool Albeit for hot season. The house is in Bang Saray & always has a great flow of air going through the house. The floor is actually cold all day & night long. 1 aircon we use at night for an hour before snoozing.

Superblock rocks!!!! And we got lucky only 8 cracks on walls comparing to 100 plus houses built in this area. We had a great renderer . All cracks were superficial & have been repaired.

The Superblock with high grade paint inside & out keeps the moisture out. Night & day from red block & cinder to aerated Superblock or Qcon . Now if I was going to build a pizza oven - the red brick is best to hold in heat!

Thanks, Beardog.

[bbradsby]

To the original post's subject:

The hollow concrete masonry units/CMU/breeze blocks are a good value but provide only a small bit of insulation since the 'webs' create a thermal bridge over a large percentage of their wall surface area. It is non-load-bearing unless the wall assembly is designed as such. Insulation requirements beyond a minimal value should be solved separately from the blockwork with proper design for your site-specific climate (i.e., Pai design criteria are very different than Samui) and solar orientation/sun exposure. Insulation in the wrong place for a given climate zone will result in mold & mildew moving in along with you.

The Thai red brick is very soft, almost chalk-like. It's accompanying mortar shrinks excessively as it cures due to excessive joint thickness and excessive water content in the mix... same as their structural concrete but that's a different subject. And very possibly, due to improper clay choice, the brick itself swells during installation as it takes on water from the mortar, then shrinks as it dries, cracking the entire wall & finish assembly and creating a water feature in your house, as is so commonly observed here. I wouldn't use it except as sitework wall infill and top-of-wall infill for a house. It is non-load-bearing. Basically about as useful as hammered dog$h1te in proper building construction.

[bbradsby]

I agree with Naam that the lightweight blocks are more than strong enough to support kitchen cupboards etc with good plugs and screw length...it is shear force after all ...

I got to thinking about this and have another comment / question. It would seem that more forces are involved than just shear forces? Seems to me there are significant cantilever (?) effects, especially from weight on the lower shelves, trying to pivot the cabinet (bottom of cabinet as fulcrum) which would be exerting a pulling force on the anchors -- especially the top anchors.

Note: Given the nomenclature I'm using it should be abundantly obvious that I am not an engineer.

the anchors should resist pull-out force as well as shear, since if the block starts to fail, or the anchor deflect, you'll get some non-vertical forces that want to lever out the top of large heavy items such as cabinets. Also, a small seismic event like we do get in the mountains here could ruin your whole day...

[klikster]

I can't find the comment now, but someone mentioned "sound" as in sound transmission reduction for Superblock.

I hadn't considered Superblock for any benefits other that their thermal properties, but if Superblock also has an internal damping effect because of their porosity, that could be a deal changer for me.

I looked on the Superblock and Q-Con websites but couldn't find any acoustical data. Can someone comment on the acoustical properties of AAC?

[Kwasaki]

I can't find the comment now, but someone mentioned "sound" as in sound transmission reduction for Superblock.

I hadn't considered Superblock for any benefits other that their thermal properties, but if Superblock also has an internal damping effect because of their porosity, that could be a deal changer for me.

I looked on the Superblock and Q-Con websites but couldn't find any acoustical data. Can someone comment on the acoustical properties of AAC?

Acoustic dampening can be achieved in many types of construction, affect can be measured in different ways and what is required.

The original post was basically about cost relation and if you had a double concrete block wall construction with rockwood slab you can get a good sound absorbing construction.

For existing structures there are many drylining systems also ones using acoustic plasterboard that give good results.

Any acoustical data can be a bit misleading, there's foundation and ceilings to consider too.

Atomic bomb shelters are allegedly have very good acoustic value's.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Kwasaki

[canopy]

Below is some acoustical information from the Hebel AAC material properties specification:

AAC has been shown to provide better insulation to sound transmitted by air than other building materials, for example concrete under comparable conditions. The inner damping of AAC is one of the significant reasons for the high sound insulating performance of AAC. In comparison with other materials of the same mass per area, AAC has up to a 7 dB higher STC.

Edited February 16, 2012 by canopy

[bbradsby]

mass dampens low frequency air-borne sound pressure waves, so nothing beats solid concrete as for typical/feasible building materials. Better than concrete block/breezeblock, etc. Alternatively you can build up layers of gypsum board to achieve the mass, especially in an asymmetrical wall section. This means an even number of layers on one side, odd on the other. This works because it keeps the wall assembly from ringing like a drum.

Air-tightness dampens the high frequencies. So install airtight sealant joints, neoprene weatherstripping gaskets at all wall perimeters & penetrations.

These comments don't apply to structure-borne impact/vibration, however.

[Kwasaki]

Below is some acoustical information from the Hebel AAC material properties specification:

AAC has been shown to provide better insulation to sound transmitted by air than other building materials, for example concrete under comparable conditions. The inner damping of AAC is one of the significant reasons for the high sound insulating performance of AAC. In comparison with other materials of the same mass per area, AAC has up to a 7 dB higher STC.

That's from a AAC report isn't it.

[klikster]

What I am referring to is "damping", not reduced sound transmission. While the results may be similar, the mechanism is different. As I understand things, damping is preventing the re-transmission of sound --- either internally and externally. That's what I'm looking for data on.

@Canopy

Thanks for that link. I will definitely read everything available there. Will Superblock have pretty much identical specs as Hebel?

@bbradsby

Mass is definitely one factor in reducing the transmission of sound pressure waves, but a concrete slab is pretty much the epitome of brute force sound control. Basically, you get 6 db for every doubling of mass. Decoupled multi-layers are much more effective. But I won't be building with a homogeneous concrete wall, so the choice of blocks is what it at issue for my build.

I know how important sealing is, but that is pretty much accomplished by the mortar joining the blocks.

@Kwasaki

No, the discussion here is not limited to the COST of one type of block over another. Read the title. It is about Pros and Cons.

FWIW, a porous / fibrous material between layers of mass doesn't do all that much for reducing sound transmission. Fiber board and fiber blankets work well to reduce the reverberation of sound within a space, but I'm not sure how important that is inside a residential wall.

However, I don't think it is about atomic bomb shelters.

----------------------

It is difficult to sort of imagine one's way, acoustically speaking, through a breeze block wall. Each block is complex with 'chambers', 'walls' and 'connections'. But a double Superblock wall might have some significant advantages over a double breeze block wall.