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davejbee

Fishing Holidays In Thialand

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Whilst I agree with you to some extent, but you cannot tar everyone with the same brush, isn't the reason this and other forums exist so that like minded people can exchange information freely without financial gain unsure.png or am I missing the point.

If you don't want to join the party then don't contribute, it's that simple, in the meantime I will continue to talk to fishing shop owners and Thais to share information openly.

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Try bangkokhookers its a good site and the guy who runs it really anoys the crap out of fishing tour operators because he tells all the details where to go and what to pay. He is Thai and speaks perfect English.

Is this honestly what you think Robblok? Once again....completely missing the point! Its about offering a service. If anyone cares to look there are dozens and dozens of websites offering information about Thailands fishing scene, I should know our own website "spawned" most of them when we went online 6 or 7 years ago! The reaction to our website was pretty signifciant across all aspects of the Thai fishing scene becuase we actually named venues, whislt at the time the only other serious tour operator deliberately left the venues pages of thier website "under construction", to keep his knowledge to himself....at the time I thought that was selfish, now I reliase he was right.

You actually need to rephrase your comment to something like " Some websites have been set up by expat anglers or their Thai friends becuase they think it annoys the crap out of tour operators!" It would be a much more accurate description of how and why some (if not all) of these websites came about, as sad as that is, you've obviously been talking to some certain people I know who would have you believe tour operators give a crap about such things, they don't. You might have noticed our websites venue pages doesnt get updated so much so more. Well thats becuase I learned long ago I get know thanks for exposing venues,(all they do is keep hiking the prices on all of us in return for the free exposure!) not from the expat community(all they do is think they can "annoy the crap out of us "by following us everywhere we go, so now I largely take customers elsewhere and simply dont publish the details! Like the venue Im using thats two biggest carp are 84kg and 96kg, or my other venue that only has 2 species of fish available Stingray and thousands of Siamese Carp, or the other one that has 100 plus 50kg Arapaima in and is only 2000BHT a rod!clap2.gif All within an hour or two of Bangkok! So Robblok thats what you get for "annoying the crap" out of those that choose to fish for a living, an information drought!

That is your opinion, and you are certainly right to hide your lakes. I would too if i made my money that way. But i do seem to have hit a nerve because you act like bull in a china shop.

Fact is that if you can read thai and have thai friends you can get a lot of information. Fact is also you make a living by providing a service. I just question the value of a service like that with so much info available. You dont need to agree with me and i dont need to agree with you.

Fishing guides have their value tour operators too but in these economic times people look for alternatives.

Right now im fishing shadow, for me its not all about big fish and new places. I love to get the most out of places near my home. Relaxing not driven by the need for giants. I know they are here but for me its refining my skills at a certain lake. Like today im totally outfished by the thai next to me. Others are too... He has a better bait. (i think)

Do i like going to other places.... Maybe.. But i like going to the same place where i can try many things even more.

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I would have to agree that bankokhooker is a great website about all the large venues and has all the information you need to fish. Another one will be John-Tom website that has GPS coordinates of the places. Many places you can hire a guide or simply ask someone who is fishing. Although I do not speak Thai, I can always ask for help, and people are more than happy to help at the ponds. Generally guides are used when you are lazy and do not want to mix the bait or even have to cast your fishing pole. For some people like me, it is the fun part of fishing.

Happy fishing.

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At rufnuf

You say you shared a lot of info. To be honest i have never seen you share any info. It could be that it is all on your site then i apologize. I just haven't seen it while most posters here do share info.

I seen an airipaima lake for the price you were talking about. Cheaper for the thais if they paid an entrance fee. However it was nothing more then a square hole in the ground. Its was not too far from my home. But im not into those fish pluse i like my lakes a bit more natural. As far as that goes. Even palm tree was nicer as that lake.

We might not be talking about the same lake.

Im not asking for info from tour-operators, i never do they make money by their information. That is their job and right but i wont keep things hidden if i find stuff out.

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Here we go again... cheesy.gif

btw Rufanuf you do realise that some expats talk to Thais. Some even live with them. ohmy.png They talk about things, even fishing venues. lol.

The point I am making Jack, is exactly that! What gets my goat is why most expats like yourself have to state the obvious about how to do research, yet deny the obvious that some of that research is of value to people who have niether the time nor inclination to do it themsleves, these people are called tourists!!

Robblok you have had fishing experiences SEVERAL in fact that are as a direct result of reading tour companies websites. You get a name or rough location of place and then go an find it yourselves AND THATS FINE, you live here your not a tourist and you can enjoy the task of taking that on, OUR CUSTOMERS CANT and you lot make them out to be fools for considering a tourist service, and then start giving them free misguided advice that ends up costing them as much money as they save.

Edited by rufanuf

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Here we go againcheesy.gif I'm married by the way Jack, and yes I too talk to my wife, and we have large cirlce of friends and family. We spend a lot of time researching venues we believe are off the radar for one reason or another....in our experience some of the most interesting places are not ever going to be found by Thai BKK anglers, there not advertised in any fishing magazines.....sometimes you'll find a mention on some Thai fishings forums but thats about it. This was true of Palm Tree Lagoon for many years, it was shown in John Wilson's Dream Fishing with his brother, and they made out it was just outside Hua Hin, and this ploy and the fake name kept farangs away for many years, and Dave was able to enjoy it to himself and a close circle of friends for some years after that TV programme until we found and promoted it....there are other venues similar to Palm Tree, but Ive learnt my lesson, I get know thanks for sharing the research I do, so now instead I moving towards having my own fishery and I'll keep my Thai venue secrets for my own pleasure!

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Here we go againcheesy.gif I'm married by the way Jack, and yes I too talk to my wife, and we have large cirlce of friends and family. We spend a lot of time researching venues we believe are off the radar for one reason or another....in our experience some of the most interesting places are not ever going to be found by Thai BKK anglers, there not advertised in any fishing magazines.....sometimes you'll find a mention on some Thai fishings forums but thats about it. This was true of Palm Tree Lagoon for many years, it was shown in John Wilson's Dream Fishing with his brother, and they made out it was just outside Hua Hin, and this ploy and the fake name kept farangs away for many years, and Dave was able to enjoy it to himself and a close circle of friends for some years after that TV programme until we found and promoted it....there are other venues similar to Palm Tree, but Ive learnt my lesson, I get know thanks for sharing the research I do, so now instead I moving towards having my own fishery and I'll keep my Thai venue secrets for my own pleasure!

Yes I know the program. I have the video on my computer of Wilson fishing there. His brother gets a lovely thump off the arapaima in the face. Karma? rolleyes.gif

I think if guiding was so highly regarded then the venues would be an open resource. It's because guides are worried about being cut out that they hide them.

Luckily for me I have a number of places I like that are still low key.

The point is with a minimum wage of 300 baht a day which I know is for unskilled workers, guide services could be run cheaper for tourists. I certainly advise tourists to use a guide a few times until they know what to do.

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Here we go again... cheesy.gif

btw Rufanuf you do realise that some expats talk to Thais. Some even live with them. ohmy.png They talk about things, even fishing venues. lol.

The point I am making Jack, is exactly that! What gets my goat is why most expats like yourself have to state the obvious about how to do research, yet deny the obvious that some of that research is of value to people who have niether the time nor inclination to do it themsleves, these people are called tourists!!

Robblok you have had fishing experiences SEVERAL in fact that are as a direct result of reading tour companies websites. You get a name or rough location of place and then go an find it yourselves AND THATS FINE, you live here your not a tourist and you can enjoy the task of taking that on, OUR CUSTOMERS CANT and you lot make them out to be fools for considering a tourist service, and then start giving them free misguided advice that ends up costing them as much money as they save.

Actually all my fishing experiences even shadow lake come from going with Thai guys. So im sorry i dont fit that profile. I used to go out to all kind of venues with my Thai friends. Unfortunately one stopped fishing and the other moved away. Palm tree i went there because of Chin (singaporean guy) asked me. Gilhams, i read about here. Other then that ll the venues i have been with been with Thais.

I also read about new venues here on Thai visa. So no fishing tours have never helped me one bit. But actually im not that interested in finding new places, im content with the ones i know. I like to really do my thing and i can do that in shadow. BSR is fun if i want to catch many fish but its not really a challenge (i just hate lam on a float).

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It seems like someone likes to promote a tour company and says the only way you can have a good time is with a guide. In a day where the internet is full of information and people are out to share information, many people choose to spend their money on either a more expensive venue or using the money they saved towards a nice dinner. Their are people with money to blow where they do not mind spending a couple extra thousand baht a day, but sometimes you can meet up with someone who doesn't mind sharing information and making a new friend. In America, I have always posted an open seat on my boat for free when the fishing is good and offer help to people on the lakes when they are having a hard time catching a fish. I have friends that are guides that pretty much babysit people that are too lazy to bait their hooks and likes to sit in a 100k boat. Correct me if I am wrong, but many people who go on this forum to share information or looking for opinions on fishing areas and technique.

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It would certainly be more helpful for people who can't afford 5000 to 10,000 baht a day to be able to read about Thai fishing and techniques. When you look for this in English online you find 90% of information is tours advertising their services. The pictures in the gallerys are also misleading. Anyone who goes to Bungsamran can come away with a massive fish. The water is so packed full of fish that the bait mix etc isn't as important there.

The practices of tour companys just look bad. Renaming venues. Keeping locations hidden so they can line their pockets. Like protecting a monopoly. Hopefully more and more Thai information will become available in English so many more people can enjoy the sport.

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Try bangkokhookers its a good site and the guy who runs it really anoys the crap out of fishing tour operators because he tells all the details where to go and what to pay. He is Thai and speaks perfect English.

Is this honestly what you think Robblok? Once again....completely missing the point! Its about offering a service. If anyone cares to look there are dozens and dozens of websites offering information about Thailands fishing scene, I should know our own website "spawned" most of them when we went online 6 or 7 years ago! The reaction to our website was pretty signifciant across all aspects of the Thai fishing scene becuase we actually named venues, whislt at the time the only other serious tour operator deliberately left the venues pages of thier website "under construction", to keep his knowledge to himself....at the time I thought that was selfish, now I reliase he was right.

You actually need to rephrase your comment to something like " Some websites have been set up by expat anglers or their Thai friends becuase they think it annoys the crap out of tour operators!" It would be a much more accurate description of how and why some (if not all) of these websites came about, as sad as that is, you've obviously been talking to some certain people I know who would have you believe tour operators give a crap about such things, they don't. You might have noticed our websites venue pages doesnt get updated so much so more. Well thats becuase I learned long ago I get know thanks for exposing venues,(all they do is keep hiking the prices on all of us in return for the free exposure!) not from the expat community(all they do is think they can "annoy the crap out of us "by following us everywhere we go, so now I largely take customers elsewhere and simply dont publish the details! Like the venue Im using thats two biggest carp are 84kg and 96kg, or my other venue that only has 2 species of fish available Stingray and thousands of Siamese Carp, or the other one that has 100 plus 50kg Arapaima in and is only 2000BHT a rod!clap2.gif All within an hour or two of Bangkok! So Robblok thats what you get for "annoying the crap" out of those that choose to fish for a living, an information drought!

You have proof of these claims?

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Try bangkokhookers its a good site and the guy who runs it really anoys the crap out of fishing tour operators because he tells all the details where to go and what to pay. He is Thai and speaks perfect English.

Is this honestly what you think Robblok? Once again....completely missing the point! Its about offering a service. If anyone cares to look there are dozens and dozens of websites offering information about Thailands fishing scene, I should know our own website "spawned" most of them when we went online 6 or 7 years ago! The reaction to our website was pretty signifciant across all aspects of the Thai fishing scene becuase we actually named venues, whislt at the time the only other serious tour operator deliberately left the venues pages of thier website "under construction", to keep his knowledge to himself....at the time I thought that was selfish, now I reliase he was right.

You actually need to rephrase your comment to something like " Some websites have been set up by expat anglers or their Thai friends becuase they think it annoys the crap out of tour operators!" It would be a much more accurate description of how and why some (if not all) of these websites came about, as sad as that is, you've obviously been talking to some certain people I know who would have you believe tour operators give a crap about such things, they don't. You might have noticed our websites venue pages doesnt get updated so much so more. Well thats becuase I learned long ago I get know thanks for exposing venues,(all they do is keep hiking the prices on all of us in return for the free exposure!) not from the expat community(all they do is think they can "annoy the crap out of us "by following us everywhere we go, so now I largely take customers elsewhere and simply dont publish the details! Like the venue Im using thats two biggest carp are 84kg and 96kg, or my other venue that only has 2 species of fish available Stingray and thousands of Siamese Carp, or the other one that has 100 plus 50kg Arapaima in and is only 2000BHT a rod!clap2.gif All within an hour or two of Bangkok! So Robblok thats what you get for "annoying the crap" out of those that choose to fish for a living, an information drought!

You have proof of these claims?

Why would I want to share Jack? Theres a reason Im the only one of the fishing tour operators who contributes at all to the forums....all the others feel the people on here dont warrant the input becuase all they do is criticise what we do. I was only chatting to one of them yesterday about the latest fun thread about fishing holidays on Thai Visa....and they made a very valid point to me.....that being that all you guys need to do is ask one of many hundreds if not thousands of happy customers they have organised trips for over the years to really understand why someone would take up a guided fishing trip or organised tour, and the reasons are often a lot more extensive than expats give those people credit for.

Im not sure which claims your asking me to prove, but if its the venues I am describing, then no! Thats the whole point I am not going to publish one jot of information about these places only to find the next time I go there theres the odd farang fishing, and then before I know it theres mention of the venue on another website (be it Thai or Farang), and all you lot have to say is "we did our own research" and before you now it, "it was nothing to do with a few expat anglers finding venue names off tour companies fishing websites....we all do our own research."

If its the claims about spawning other websites....simply look up "who is" for the dates websites came into existance.....this gives you a very good indicator of how information on the web has evolved over recent years. You can also look at one particular farang website with info on it about fishing venues and fishing tour operators, and see which operator IS NOT MENTIONED on that site. The reason this person mentions other tour companies and not ours is becuase early on he used articles written with our co-operation to promote his own websites and not ours, despite assurances this was not his intention before the interview was conducted. After that spat he appeared to then make it his business to deliberately compete with us in the "information" stakes on the web, and several other websites written by Thai's rapidly followed suite.

What I found so bizarre about all this conduct, is the impression these people have that this somehow "annoys the crap" out of us. Why would it? What annoyed the crap out of me personally was the use of our own material to promote ones own website. Plagarism is a fact of life on the internet, and I dont personally care so much about it, but when someone has personally requested material, and has personally assured you it wont be used in a certain way and you later find it was used in such a way it really could damage your business(and no I dont mean by publishing details of venues, I mean by using pictures(not taken by us) of fish laying on dry hard wooden planks, in an article about us when at the time our key selling points was fish care! (yes some anglers would book a trip with one operator over another simply on this one key element of a service alone, much I am sure to the shock of expat anglers!)! then of course thats frustrating and annoying.

Edited by rufanuf

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Your comments here Robblok are niave. You have been helped and you dont even realsie it! How did "Chin" No about Palm Tree to invite you there? How even did the guy who bought it know about it to buy it ! This place simply didnt exist to westerners just a few years ago, abit like Bungsamran didnt exist to westerners until around the mid 90s when JFHelios started bringing the place to the attention of western anglers.

There are still a handful of Thai fisheries that remain hidden from the eyes of westerners, this was what has always fascinted me about the Thai fishing scene, the fact you can go out and find a place where a farang has hardly ever been and find some incredible fish swimming around...but it is now gettig more difficult and you have to go a little bit further afield.

Edited by rufanuf

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Id like to lay a challenge....can any one in Bangkok tell me the weherabouts of "Benjamin" Lake? If one of you can tell me where it is (its not necesarily a commercial fishery, but it has been fished by at least one tour operator) I will disclose where the stingray and siamese carp lake is!

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