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davejbee

Fishing Holidays In Thialand

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Also none of the 3 venues just mentioned are present on any other websites Western or Thai and now never will be. You could trawl 100s of Thai fishing magazines and you might find a 1 off advert for 1 of them, or you could join a few Thai fishing forums, and you might see a mention, but if we dont publish in english, its unlikely the names and locations will ever be published, this is th lesson Ive learned from expats. All they want to do is criticise what we do, so then why do it? I now keep my knowledge and experience of venues to myself, and share only with people who are willing to place a value on that knowledge, not criticise the very thing that likely led them to some of the venues theyve fished in the first place. How do you think you know about Palm Tree to complain about it Robblok? The only reason you know it exists to complain about is becuase we exposed it. before that the original owner was charging 200BHT to catch a 350lb plus Arapaima! And all you could find was a single line listing on a Thai fishing forum directory that didnt even have an address or a telephone number that worked! My business partner spent 5 days in Ratchaburi and drove past it a dozen times before we finally found it, and even then we was not sure it was the place of legend that only one westerner had ever fished for a number of years, that westerner being Dave Wilson, who, being a gentleman actually congratulated us for finding it! The original owner subsequently sold his leased "pond" for 2 million baht and now you pay upwards of 4000BHT a day to fish it! Clearly we have not done the fishing scene any good at all have we?

I believe 1-2 of the venues you mentioned will soon be on websites complete with directions and GPS co-ords included...no longer hidden from the eye of expats or tourists,

Why do you dream others here dont have regular contact with the thai fanatic fishing community?

Myself i have no qualms about traveling around thailand or neighboring countries visiting venues along with thai fanatic fishing buddys both male and female,

BTW there are a couple of more venues in the pipeline that will soon be up and running that i,m 100% confident you have no knowledge about, Dont worry! information for them also will be up for public view youself included!

He's saying Inflation is a good thing?

Funny he likes the idea of no westerner knowing where these places are. Yet it's only westerners aka richer clients, who they take fishing. If a westerner knows he can have the same thing but for cheaper he will always go cheaper. That's why these guides hide things and use the tactics they do.

I hope you do post the new venues Ting tong but if only we could now hide them from the tours lol clap2.gif

What do you do for a living Jack....? Im a bit confused by your statement here? Are you saying tour companies have the ability to hide a venue from other people? I thought it was all public knowledge? clap2.gif

I certainly dont think inflation is a good thing, although it is a fact of life when places are made popular with westerners, which has HISTORICALLY been the realm of tour companies websites to make them that way, but that is now changing, and I personally dont care one way or the other about that as I have always stated.

The service of tour companies whether expats like it or not will always continue to be of value to those people that cannot easily put fishing trips together for them selves for the reason Robblok stated as well as alot more besides. And that value will be dcided by the customer base, not by tour operators or a bunch of expats with misguided ideas about what tour operators both make in terms of money AND what they offer.

Just the same way people who do not require your professions, dont employ your services, anglers who do not require ours wont employ ours, its really that simple.

Edited by rufanuf

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Unfortunately TingTong....as i have noted in the last year to 18 months and mentioned previously a whole plethora of new tours or guides have sprung up, and they are all on a steep learning curve, trying to glean knowledge anyway they can.

Although of course as an angler you shouldnt be too concerned about a fellow angler wanting information from you, should you? Regardless of whether his intent is to use that info for commercial purposes or not. That attitude, we are led to believe by some on this forum is only for the realms of fishing tour operators who try to keep stuff hush hush isnt it?

I have had done to me exactly the same thing numerous times over the years by expats emailing pretending to be prospective customers, in order to glean information, its all just part of the game, and the wonderful tapestry that is expat anglers/expat fishing tours.

It is a fact that I am the only tour operator willing to contribute to the forums, if not useful (although jack what did you think about stingray off the beach near Cha Am? I can share that with you if you need to know more, as its not an 100sq m puddle! So I can still get my customers on there when all you lot know about it!) information becuase I dont see that as my job or in my interests, then at least lively debate! The other tour operatros, some with considerably more experience of venues than me will simply not give expats anglers the time of day on forums or elsehwere becuase of the manner in which they know they will recieved by the majority of expat anglers.

What I try to do by contributing is to make expats see that from a tourist perspective they're views on what we do hold very little creedence....if they did there wouldnt be so many operators or "outfitters" or "sharks"(for you TingTong) as there are.

Im happy to keep contributing my opinions to this debate, its just a shame I am one voice against...mmmm how many? Even so I have had one or two private messages from expat anglers offering respect for the fact I dont bow to the negative stuff thrown at me on here, by some of you, and continue to argue my point as constructively as I can.

We all have to learn to live at let live, like the Thais generally do.

Edited by rufanuf

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Fishing tour companies do add convenience, other then that the local guides are the ones who make sure you catch the fish the hired driver makes sure you get there.

Question is always how does convenience rate against price. You talked about many happy clients, i wonder how happy they would be if they knew how much they would have paid if they rented a guide at BSR and paid for their own taxi.

People can be really happy if they don't know what they would have paid normally. If i buy something and i think i got a great deal i'm happy. If i find out later i still paid double of the going rate im not that happy anymore.

Same as using an accountant then Robblok? When I firt arrived in Thailand I used accountants that had some english language skills. They charged 3 times what I get charge for today becuase I use a pure Thai company with no farangs involved. So it has a cost advantage but a communication and ease of getting something done disadvantage.

Sure is, though im no accountant for Thais or Thai taxes. So it does not apply to me. I know what you mean about the English language skill accountants in Thailand they rip you off badly. Kinda like fishing tour operators. I swear i knew exactly how much work they had and the prices were unbelievable. Good thing i was smart enough to file my own VAT and salary, because i had some basic knowledge. No problems at all and saved a couple of 1000 per time.

So if you think you had me with that remark your way of mark I often find accountants way overpriced. I operate at the bottom of the marked with cheap prices and good service. And if someone thinks they can do a better job themselves i don't get ticked off because i got plenty of work.

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Unofrtunately TingTong....as i have noted in the last year to 18 months and mentioned previously a whole plethora of new tours or guides have sprung up, and they are all on a steep learning curve. Although of course as an angler you shouldnt be too concerned about a fellow angler wanting info from you, should you? Regardless of whether his intent is to use that info for commercial purposes or not. That attitude, we are led to believe by some on this forum is only for the realms of fishing tour operators who try to keep stuff hush hush isnt it?

Yes, to be honest i seen you being helpfull only once or twice. I never seen you discuss fishing venues, techniques. But i do see you come here advertising for fishing tours and promoting your business.

Other people who are mostly anglers here seem to share recipes, venues and stuff like that. They share knowledge about the gear to use ect. I have seen you only make some useful comments about the sea fishing.

Im not saying you should share your secrets but you seem to be here in the wrong place, you are preying on people to become your clients while we are trying to help others. Not an offense because i have no problem with you at all but just an observation.

I might have looked wrong because i don't remember each and every post.

I have met many people from this site all trying to learn from eachother. I have helped some people who never fished at all at no cost (not even ticket cost) at all. That is because i love fishing and don't make money from it.

Ting Tong here just magged one of my reels for free. Urfishing, is a great guy to fish with who explained me stuff about US fishing and who likes new Idea's. Jack has had some email contact with me and we shared some views that were interesting. Zoso has taken me to palm tree or at least set it up with no financial gain for him. This is a site for people helping people, that is what happens when enthusiasts come together. The guy with all the fishing parks in a map, who goes sea fishing.. also helps. Garry with all his recipes for fishing.. just to mention a few.

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Fishing tour companies do add convenience, other then that the local guides are the ones who make sure you catch the fish the hired driver makes sure you get there.

Question is always how does convenience rate against price. You talked about many happy clients, i wonder how happy they would be if they knew how much they would have paid if they rented a guide at BSR and paid for their own taxi.

People can be really happy if they don't know what they would have paid normally. If i buy something and i think i got a great deal i'm happy. If i find out later i still paid double of the going rate im not that happy anymore.

Same as using an accountant then Robblok? When I firt arrived in Thailand I used accountants that had some english language skills. They charged 3 times what I get charge for today becuase I use a pure Thai company with no farangs involved. So it has a cost advantage but a communication and ease of getting something done disadvantage.

Sure is, though im no accountant for Thais or Thai taxes. So it does not apply to me. I know what you mean about the English language skill accountants in Thailand they rip you off badly. Kinda like fishing tour operators. I swear i knew exactly how much work they had and the prices were unbelievable. Good thing i was smart enough to file my own VAT and salary, because i had some basic knowledge. No problems at all and saved a couple of 1000 per time.

So if you think you had me with that remark your way of mark I often find accountants way overpriced. I operate at the bottom of the marked with cheap prices and good service. And if someone thinks they can do a better job themselves i don't get ticked off because i got plenty of work.

I'm not trying to "have you" at all Robblok...Im trying to make you see that certain elements of service are of value to some people. I could argue that what ever your doing for a lving is a "rip off" becuase smoneone out there knows how to do it at lower cost. Would it be a fair observation or not?

Edited by rufanuf

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@ Jack

Ive posted these carp on other threads, but here is one picture. I guess well be having a debate as to whether its made of plastic or not next?

Now the point is about me posting this (ive posted it previously, but nobody seemed to click what thye was looking at!).......is what will now happen? One of you guys has some very close Thai angling buddies, and they will begin in earnest to try and find the whereabouts of this place for you knowing the carp is 96kg (and gets caught a fair number of times year becuase unlike Bungsamran, theres no stilts in the water!) .

Then what will happen is one of you will claim "you found it" by doing your own research....except for the fact you didnt know to look! Thats the point I am making Robblok about for example Palm Tree Lagoon. You have to first know what to look for!

Ill give you small hints....its less than 1hr 30mins from BKK....west.....yes it does cost 300bht a day to fish it and yes I take customers there for 6000BHT a day (after fuel and tackle depletion and wear and tear on my vehcile, if I make 1500BHT Im lucky....some rip off eh Robblok? Im not sure really if its simply me ripping myself off!

post-32215-0-06086000-1331434352_thumb.j

Edited by rufanuf

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Fishing tour companies do add convenience, other then that the local guides are the ones who make sure you catch the fish the hired driver makes sure you get there.

Question is always how does convenience rate against price. You talked about many happy clients, i wonder how happy they would be if they knew how much they would have paid if they rented a guide at BSR and paid for their own taxi.

People can be really happy if they don't know what they would have paid normally. If i buy something and i think i got a great deal i'm happy. If i find out later i still paid double of the going rate im not that happy anymore.

Same as using an accountant then Robblok? When I firt arrived in Thailand I used accountants that had some english language skills. They charged 3 times what I get charge for today becuase I use a pure Thai company with no farangs involved. So it has a cost advantage but a communication and ease of getting something done disadvantage.

Sure is, though im no accountant for Thais or Thai taxes. So it does not apply to me. I know what you mean about the English language skill accountants in Thailand they rip you off badly. Kinda like fishing tour operators. I swear i knew exactly how much work they had and the prices were unbelievable. Good thing i was smart enough to file my own VAT and salary, because i had some basic knowledge. No problems at all and saved a couple of 1000 per time.

So if you think you had me with that remark your way of mark I often find accountants way overpriced. I operate at the bottom of the marked with cheap prices and good service. And if someone thinks they can do a better job themselves i don't get ticked off because i got plenty of work.

I'm not trying to "have you" at all Robblok...Im trying to make you see that certain elements of service are of value to some people. I could argue that what ever your doing for a lving is a "rip off" becuase smoneone out there knows how to do it at lower cost. Would it be a fair observation or not?

It is relative of course, i concede in that. But id say its a ripoff when other people can do it for a lower price but with the same quality. So yes i considered the English speaking accountants a ripoff charging so much more then their Thai only counterparts.

Same as with fishing tour operators, here in Thailand its unskilled work if a Thai can do it a lot cheaper and as professional its a rip off. I am not talking here about expats helping others because that is not a fair comparison. I am talking about professionals doing the same thing. I am sure i could instruct my gf to do fishing tours. She even has a license to boot because she is a registered tour guide.

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But of course thats the point Rob....its not the same quality, I already mentioned unhooking mats for one example, but thats a material thing, what about the communication of what the Thai fishing scene is about? Or the communication of how different fish behave? Any visiting angler is avidly interested in this stuff, the vast majority of Thai fishing guides cannot impart that information well enough in English even if they have extensive knowledge and skill, that is what farang operators have contributed over the years and why tourist anglers are willing to pay for their services. Its more than simply catching fish, its about a service....as I have stated over and over again. Singaporean Fishing operators deal with Singaporeans, english deal with english, Germans deal with Germans, Russians with Russians. Theres now a fishing tour operator for at least 5 or 6 different language sets, this should be saying something about what people want. They want to be able to communicate in their native tongue in depth... and they want to learn about the fishing in depth.

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I do believe you for guys on the more expensive tours. They would be different from the average BSR fisher who lets the guide do it all. But im sure there are a good portion of anglers that need all the extra information on the fishing. I know i like to know more about how the fish i target behave.

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@ Jack

Ive posted these carp on other threads, but here is one picture. I guess well be having a debate as to whether its made of plastic or not next?

Now the point is about me posting this (ive posted it previously, but nobody seemed to click what thye was looking at!).......is what will now happen? One of you guys has some very close Thai angling buddies, and they will begin in earnest to try and find the whereabouts of this place for you knowing the carp is 96kg (and gets caught a fair number of times year becuase unlike Bungsamran, theres no stilts in the water!) .

Then what will happen is one of you will claim "you found it" by doing your own research....except for the fact you didnt know to look! Thats the point I am making Robblok about for example Palm Tree Lagoon. You have to first know what to look for!

Ill give you small hints....its less than 1hr 30mins from BKK....west.....yes it does cost 300bht a day to fish it and yes I take customers there for 6000BHT a day (after fuel and tackle depletion and wear and tear on my vehcile, if I make 1500BHT Im lucky....some rip off eh Robblok? Im not sure really if its simply me ripping myself off!

Yeah that is a fine fish. Sure it's not plastic? Just joking. biggrin.png

I understand rufanuf that at the end of the day you don't get much of the cut from the 6000 baht a day. The fact is at 6000 baht a day I couldn't afford to fish as often as I want to. So for those who have had a few days with a guide I would recommend they then go it alone once they are up to speed with the venue and methods. You should get a steady stream of first and second timers flowing to you any way. I wouldn't fancy working for 6000 baht a day in Thailand either. Nothing against you, it's just economic sense.

Compared to European fishing I find Thai fishing very simple indeed. I actually don't fish too much back in the UK because it is so pedantic. Matching reels and rods, bait alarms, bivies, naming the fish, camouflaged leads, hugely complex rigs. It annoys me. I sometimes throw out a dead bait for pike or try and catch them on a lure but UK fish are like dead weights. They just give up and are too small. That's my opinion. Others will beg to differ. So I think most westerners will also find the methods very simple to do themselves.

So a siamese carp is actually on my target list this year. I've had plenty of big fish of many other species in Thailand but not the carp. I have caught a lot of them but not big ones. I wont fish bung samran because of the dual pricing so catching one is a challenge.

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So i'm curious rufanuf. You say you are on this forum happy to help out. What technique do you recommend for your customers when they want to catch a kahoe? What success rate do you have?

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@rufanuf

6000-1500 = 4500.

That is a hell of a lot of fuel en wear on your car and gear. Either that or you just don't have that many customers a year. (less customers mean higher costs)

But if that is truly what you make then its not much at all. Not what i expected at all.

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Unfortunately TingTong....as i have noted in the last year to 18 months and mentioned previously a whole plethora of new tours or guides have sprung up, and they are all on a steep learning curve, trying to glean knowledge anyway they can.

Although of course as an angler you shouldnt be too concerned about a fellow angler wanting information from you, should you? Regardless of whether his intent is to use that info for commercial purposes or not. That attitude, we are led to believe by some on this forum is only for the realms of fishing tour operators who try to keep stuff hush hush isnt it?

I have had done to me exactly the same thing numerous times over the years by expats emailing pretending to be prospective customers, in order to glean information, its all just part of the game, and the wonderful tapestry that is expat anglers/expat fishing tours.

It is a fact that I am the only tour operator willing to contribute to the forums, if not useful (although jack what did you think about stingray off the beach near Cha Am? I can share that with you if you need to know more, as its not an 100sq m puddle! So I can still get my customers on there when all you lot know about it!) information becuase I dont see that as my job or in my interests, then at least lively debate! The other tour operatros, some with considerably more experience of venues than me will simply not give expats anglers the time of day on forums or elsehwere becuase of the manner in which they know they will recieved by the majority of expat anglers.

What I try to do by contributing is to make expats see that from a tourist perspective they're views on what we do hold very little creedence....if they did there wouldnt be so many operators or "outfitters" or "sharks"(for you TingTong) as there are.

Im happy to keep contributing my opinions to this debate, its just a shame I am one voice against...mmmm how many? Even so I have had one or two private messages from expat anglers offering respect for the fact I dont bow to the negative stuff thrown at me on here, by some of you, and continue to argue my point as constructively as I can.

We all have to learn to live at let live, like the Thais generally do.

As you noticed i dont have any problem to give out info on venues or methods used to target fish but on this occasion a guide employed the use of outright lies and deciet trying to gain information for comercial perposes when infact being a person himself unwilling to give information to others,

I,m sure our paths will cross and as of yet i recieved no apology...he,s inline for a severe verbal beating.

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Hey, some useful links to other fishing venues! Thanks Zoso. That's grounds to put it on a fresh thread that's actually about fishing.

When I glance back up at the tab on my IE browser, says "Fishing Holidays in Thailand". Operative word being Holiday which, to me, screams "Tourists from abroad".

<deleted> are we on about here? It's the same as real estate agents, buying a car, travel agents, etc. They all make a business out of finding things, sources, info, even public info, protecting it, putting a brand on it, and... here we go... get ready now...... selling it to CUSTOMERS! What a concept.

To the tour operator arguing on here. Why? Clearly, the guys on here are just busting your balls and you are rising to the bait (a fishing analogy). Clearly, they don't need, want, or will ever book in your services. Trying to convince a room full of cynical in-country expats that you and your business is cut from another cloth is like putting yourself in front of a crowd of agnostics and trying to convert them to catholics.

Go on then, get some a the market share, nothing wrong with that. Do a good job and you'll have happy return customers.

Edited by 55Jay

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Well said Jay let's get back to the fishing and calm the waters of this sub forum if you pardon the pun

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