scotbeve Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Are you kidding ... I am living here for 5 years now and the burning keeps starting earlier and earlier every year ... Hell, it started in October 2011 here in Cm as soon as the flooding was over and there was no more rain .... not as bad as it is now but started then in any case.... previous years started only in Feb / March then became Nov , then became Nov/ Dec and now this year started in Oct and has now escalated till now and in a furious unseen way ... have not seen in 5 years the likes of it for the past 2 weeks ... it is in fact scary....!! I have guests here right now from Canada and they are just hacking away and find it so difficult to breathe to the point where I had to go out and buy Inhalers for them .... It is really bad !!! First burn season in Chaing Mai and today is the first time I've seen it like this. Is THIS what it's like through the whole burn season, or is today worse than normal? Also, where are you guys getting the satellite burn images? Why didn't you tell your guests to come some other time? Everyone who lives here knows that the end of February and all of March are the worst times. This is supposed to be the high season when the weather is supposedly at it's best. Historically, November is the best month in CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbamboo Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Does anyone know whether Nan is just as smoky as Chiang Mai right now? These are the numbers from the aqmthai.com website. PM10 in red (ug/m)^3. a67. Municipality Nan. 2012-02-17. 8:00:00. 0.9. 9.0. 14.0. 02.01. 92.92. Chiang Mai is current at: Quite a bump from earlier today. Appears the Nam station is not updated as often so it could be close to the CM numbers by now. 35t. City Hall. 2012-02-17. 16:00:00. 2.0. 43.2. 55.7. 0.3. 123.45. thank you sir. Im heading to the islands Cough, huff huff, cough.... think I'll join you.... Don't think I've ever seen it this bad except for Pai, Mae Hong Son, Phrao (maybe) and Lampang (all worse - but not by much). A young baby across the street has been affected, 4 elders (over 70) have been affected in the past 3 days. <deleted>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????? Smokers can light up in outdoor restaurants now in Chiang Mai and noboby will even notice. And even if anyone did complain they could always argue they couldn't see the signs. Edited February 18, 2012 by bigbamboo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotbeve Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 This is a picture of particulate (dust) build up after only a couple of days. I'd keep windows closed and fans blowing outwards. Had weird chest pains lastnight, woke up this morning and realized why...We're breathing in this stuff....From Huay Kaew road The air is worse than the Vog (volcanic fog) that we have in Hawaii. I noticed an orange-colored type dust on my (black) car the past 2 mornings. This is rather disconcerting as I've never seen this before... Any ideas anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanDobsky Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 A concerted effort should be made over a 24 hour period to catch the pyromaniacs. There should then be a prime-time TV slot given over to educating the populace on the dangers of PM10 and PM2.5 particles and explaining the Roman concept of decimation. At the end of show, the aforementioned decimation should be graphically demonstrated using the pyromaniacs who have been detained. (yes, I'm a little right-wing when it comes to the health of my wife and children) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotbeve Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 This happens every year just before the beginning of the rainy season because the people living in the mountains start burning the forrest because it stimulates wild mushrooms and other edibles It should be illegal, and may well be, but you cannot stop an old bad habbit. Its best to not exercise in such conditions and stay indoors where there is some filtration by air conditioning. Spot on! Five years ago when I went over the mountains between Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai in a bus I was alarmed at those forest fires, but I noticed that no one else showed signs of alarm. It seems that some local farmers set the dry forest on fire so that the het pho mushroom grows better. It is greed that is at the origin of those fires. There sees to be little regard for other life in the forest, small animals, amphibians that die in great numbers, but no one cares. Perhaps some of us older "hippie-type" freaks should infuse the forest with some REALLY potent magic mushrooms and then the forest burning folks won't have the energy or will to burn everything in sight!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beb Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I'm here after a few years of living in Seoul ,Korea and frankly am relieved if this is as bad as it gets. In Korea we have "Yellow Dust" which blows in from the gobi desert and very quickly creates serious health problems. They've tried, with little luck, to plant trees to block some of this but in the end we just have to live with it until the season is over. How much worse does the smoke get here? I've been out on my bike all week without much problems beyond a little sore throat. But then I'm used to always wearing a mask when riding so maybe that helps. The gobi desert dust is a natural phenomenon. But the northern Thai and Burmese forest fires are caused by human destructiveness. Here the forest fires are set on purpose by people and it is not merely a bit of "slash and burn", I was alarmed by the size of them the first time I saw them at close range. That could be true although deforestation by the chinese could very well be a big contributing factor. In any case, natural or not, the yellow dust is very debilitating. unless the smoke here gets much worse then I would say very much more harmful than the situation here. But of course I'm speaking from limited exposure so let's see what I have to say in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierr Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 @beb At any rate those intentional forest fires are part of a general recklessness in they way forests are dealt with in the whole SE Asian region. It is not only the burning, but also the illegal logging, the systematic hunting, there is business in exporting pangolin scales and tiger's body parts, and the encroachment, with houses being built even within protected areas. I wonder what will remain of SE Asian forests in a few decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PoodMaiDai Posted February 18, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2012 I don't know what is crazier, the locals burning and creating the problem or all of us who could leave if we wanted to but subject ourselves to this health hazard. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Ok bright star, and just how do you propose to do that, how do you change a very cost effective habit of centuries for rural farmers? Also, what makes you think the pollution is caused by burning within Thailand, maybe the majority of it is carried in on air currents from China and the like! You must admit that the burning in Thailand is, at the very least, contributing to the polution. Your comment is not very reasonable or sensable. Read Post # 82 and then tell me what's sensible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belg Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 why thailand does nothing against this ? also here near the airport = stinking smoke as if a whole village was smokes, disguesting and cancer prone ... TAT, this not affect image of thailand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESmith Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I don't know what is crazier, the locals burning and creating the problem or all of us who could leave if we wanted to but subject ourselves to this health hazard. Not so easy to up sticks when you've family here, invested in house etc. Or even crazier still, folk asking questions on TV about moving to CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESmith Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 my wife says its some of the local people,they set the fires so that when the rains come the mushrooms come out,she also called them stupid for doing it,and shes one of the local people. Remind your good wife to refrain from buying said mushrooms when they appear on the market. I'll be telling my wife the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiPauly Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I don't know what is crazier, the locals burning and creating the problem or all of us who could leave if we wanted to but subject ourselves to this health hazard. I don't know what is crazier, the locals burning and creating the problem or all of us who could leave if we wanted to but subject ourselves to this health hazard. Spot on: We really do not have to be here. If I drive down the road in smog, I don't see the Thai's bothering with face masks to stop them breathing the polluted air, its been like this since they were born, why should things change just because Johnny Foreigner does not like it? I have an option, if I can't stand it I should leave as there is nothing I can do to stop it, so what's the point in whinging about it? To those who have put "roots" down ...tough you should have considered this before settling in CM, in the seven years I have lived here there has only been one year when it did not happen, I accept it, put up with it..... long for rain...and wear a mask when outdoors. Every time this happens the authorities say they are gonna do something about it..but they never do...acceptance is the key...and hey we just enjoyed a beautiful high season of cool weather, but now we have to pay for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 And the reason being ??? Thai Lungs can tolerate more pollution ...??? PM10 - 50ug/m^3 in 24 hour period for 35 times in a year. This mean we are over the limit every year, no ? European standards are not the same as Thailand standards as was pointed out in the initial post on this aspect. No. Thailand does not have standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnopolo Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Do any of the Thai Bashers here have the slightest idea what the consequences of NOT burning every year would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priceless Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I came back yesterday to CM after a short trip, and I certainly agree that the pollution level today was highly unpleasant, to say the least! (Also officially classified as "out of bounds".) Just to comment on some of what has been said earlier in this thread, however: First some standards and recommendations from different organisations: Note that the EU standard (50 µg/m3) may be exceeded 35 times/year, i.e. what the standard means is that the 36th highest value in a calendar year may not exceed that value. In theory there could be several days of 300-500 without exceeding the standard! Second a rather useful map of current/recent fires from University of Maryland ( http://firefly.geog....=5&i=er&l=ad,ct ): Third a table of monthly and yearly averages in CM for the last ten years (N/A means that >25% of observations for that year/month are missing). Note that the burning (or at least the pollution) does not start earlier and earlier for each year: Fourth a graph showing moving twelve-month average levels since mid-2004 and, maybe more interestingly, a trend line for that time. Note that the trend has fallen from 56 in mid 2004 to 35 at the end of 2011, i.e. a decrease by more than a third. Quite an amazing improvement in such a relatively short period of time. (Maybe one should not be too quick in saying that the Thais don't do anything about the problem.): Fifth for the poster who was grateful for living in Bangkok rather than CM, here's a comparison of average pollution levels for CM and Din Daeng district of Bangkok: From this graph you can also see that the worst of the year in CM is normally the latter part of February (where we are now) and most or all of March. Sixth and finally, here are the numbers for the Upper North over the last four weeks or so (as they are a bit difficult to find and understand on the new PCD website): / Priceless 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldgent Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Makes me glad I am off to Bali next week for three weeks. I don't see anything there. I hope the rainy season starts before I get back. David oldgent here. bring plenty of money with you for Bali i have a friend there at the minute and she says its expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurWood Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Nonthaburi is one of the better provinces at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 I came back yesterday to CM after a short trip, and I certainly agree that the pollution level today was highly unpleasant, to say the least! (Also officially classified as "out of bounds".) Just to comment on some of what has been said earlier in this thread, however: Good to see you on-board Priceless, have been waiting for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 No. Thailand does not have standards. See post #136 under the heading, "FIRST", it's not difficult to read or understand, again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbrock Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Oh dear. I am about to fly to CNX tomorrow for my first visit there, and have accommodation booked for the week... Should I just cut my losses and go back to Samui? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabel Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 So is this the works of Pyromaniacs ..???... WTH??? Rice fields and other wahtever fields they burn is from old age methods to renourish the land ... burning forests ....??? And again no government department can control one iota of all this ... The air certainly got bad fast this year. I got up early yesterday morning in Mae Taeng and went for mountain bike ride on a beautiful trail on a ridge. There were several kilometers of burned forest where likely a lone person walked along setting fires as he went. Some of these folks live so far out that they don't have televisions or radios so they are unaware of any problem and I am sure this is the same in across the borders in the whole region. Let's hope for winds or rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabel Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Excuse me but if you have lived here for the past 5 years you would have also noticed that the pattern continuously changes... FYKI this year the burning started around mid October !!! As soon as Chiang Mai was over the Flood Shock that we had end Sept and it was dry enough they were already Burning big time ... don't know where you live but maybe need a little reality check at your end...?? Last year the burning started end Dec and went on till end Feb and then for some odd reason crazy rains kicked in and there was no more burning .... Again... where do you live ??? Are you kidding ... I am living here for 5 years now and the burning keeps starting earlier and earlier every year ... Hell, it started in October 2011 here in Cm as soon as the flooding was over and there was no more rain .... not as bad as it is now but started then in any case.... previous years started only in Feb / March then became Nov , then became Nov/ Dec and now this year started in Oct and has now escalated till now and in a furious unseen way ... have not seen in 5 years the likes of it for the past 2 weeks ... it is in fact scary....!! I have guests here right now from Canada and they are just hacking away and find it so difficult to breathe to the point where I had to go out and buy Inhalers for them .... It is really bad !!! First burn season in Chaing Mai and today is the first time I've seen it like this. Is THIS what it's like through the whole burn season, or is today worse than normal? Also, where are you guys getting the satellite burn images? Why didn't you tell your guests to come some other time? Everyone who lives here knows that the end of February and all of March are the worst times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabel Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 And the point you are making here is ....??? 99.9 % of the fires in northern Australia would be wildfires in uninhabited terrain started by lightning strikes and nothing to do with ground clearing techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabel Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Mesquite... you either took fast learning reading skills and obviously fialed or do not know how to read... please reread my posy and post again ... I have nothing better to do all day but read replies from people who do not know how to read to begin with ....:-)))) Are you kidding ... I am living here for 5 years now and the burning keeps starting earlier and earlier every year ... Hell, it started in October 2011 here in Cm as soon as the flooding was over and there was no more rain .... not as bad as it is now but started then in any case.... previous years started only in Feb / March then became Nov , then became Nov/ Dec and now this year started in Oct and has now escalated till now and in a furious unseen way ... have not seen in 5 years the likes of it for the past 2 weeks ... it is in fact scary....!! I have guests here right now from Canada and they are just hacking away and find it so difficult to breathe to the point where I had to go out and buy Inhalers for them .... It is really bad !!! Why didn't you tell your guests to come some other time? Everyone who lives here knows that the end of February and all of March are the worst times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikster Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Oh dear. I am about to fly to CNX tomorrow for my first visit there, and have accommodation booked for the week... Should I just cut my losses and go back to Samui? Yep. Researching flights out of here right now. For myself, I think I can handle this, but I have kids, and exposing them to what has been described as the equivalent of smoking two packs of cigarettes a day is ridiculous. It usually doesn't set in this early... I am hoping for some rain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinnieTheKhwai Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Oh dear. I am about to fly to CNX tomorrow for my first visit there, and have accommodation booked for the week... Should I just cut my losses and go back to Samui? No. Just yesterday we had a visitor from Bangkok and he was raving about the weather; cool and dry, very comfortable. Many people don't even notice it. When comparing with the wet season then the views really aren't all that great, but the weather really isn't too bad right now. Could be a lot hotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Haze still exceeds safe levels in parts of North THE NATION ON SUNDAY February 19, 2012 1:00 am Fine particle dust in several northern provinces exceeds safety standards, the Pollution Control Department warned yesterday. PM10 dust exceeded the accepted safety level of 120 micrograms per cubic metre (ug/cu m) and could affect people's health, the department website warned. It urged state agencies to control outdoor burning, which is the key reason for haze in the North. Fine particle dust was highest near Lamphun stadium yesterday with a reported 208 ug/cu m, while Phrae was close to 150 ug/cu m, and Mae Hong Son reported 131 ug/cu m. Lampang's City Shrine area reported 132 ug/cu m while its Tambon Sompad reported 145 ug/cu m and Tambon Ban Thasi was 164 ug/cu m. In Chiang Mai, City Hall area reported 179 ug/cu m and downtown Yupparaj Wittayalai School reported 161 ug/cu m In Lamphun all six districts - Li, Thung Hua Chang, Ban Hong, Mae Tha, Wiang Nong Long and Muang - were over the safety limit for fine particle dust and there was more white haze and poor visibility, so the provincial public health office urged people not to exercise outdoors. An informed source said many respiratory patients sought treatment from doctors at state and private hospitals while officials urged people to stop outdoor burning. In Chiang Mai, the provincial zoo and Night Safari implemented more measures - opening water sprinklers to increase humidity and adding vitamins for small animals to boost their immunity - to help them cope with the dust. Chiang Mai Airport director Rawiwan Netrakhawesna said the haze did not affect flights landing or taking off, being cancelled or delayed, because pilot visibility was still good, beyond 2km. Song Klinpathum, chief of the Northern Royal Rainmaking Operations Centre, said a rain-making flight scheduled on March 1 to lessen haze in 17 northern provinces, would be postponed to March 5, as farmers were harvesting garlic and onions. -- The Nation 19 February 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxpirant Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) . Also interesting to note from the map that Northern Australia uses the same ground clearing techniques, I find that particularly odd. That would be the Aussie natives. No immediate neighbours out that way, unlike here. There aren't many of them left living tribally and it's easier to go down to the local supermarket than kill game. Mostly it's the authorities burning off to reduce fuel and consequent risk of uncontrolled fires. Northern Australia has a very tall grass, kunai, known commonly as spear grass, 8 feet or more, very dense, and when a fire gets going in that in the 'dry' season, it's difficult to stop. Northern Australia is vast compared with Thailand, and the area over which these fires are set wouldn't have a population of even a few thousand very different from Thailand. Edited February 18, 2012 by saxpirant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewsta Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Some pertinent points that would at least be debated by other countries than LOS. Slowly slowly catchee Monkey aka drag Thailand into a more recent century for agricultural practices....IMHO, naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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