mikebike Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hmmm... my pool installed by a Thai company to Aussie standards and I love the 12 volt underwater lighting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Because I have a healthy respect for my wellbeing I have my pool lights disconnected, I just don't trust the guy who did the wiring. RIP to the Russian guy. Wise decision. I had a Thai electrician install a more efficient water heater in one of my bathrooms. I insisted that he would call me for me to go and see the installation before replacing the ceiling tiles. I saw that the green grounding wire was lose. Connect it, please. I asked the electrician. "Why you want it connected?, the "electrician" retorted. "It will work that way", was his authoritative final statement. Understanding that safety and maintenance are obscure concepts in animistic Thailand I said. "You do not finish installation I will not pay. The green wire is there for a reason. " After a few minutes, he was about to cut off the green wire. I stopped him in time and repeated it my warning. After a few uncomfortable minutes of silence he confessed he did not know what to do with the green wire. He was an ostensible licensed electrician! TIT land of "coincidences" and other types of calamities. Well done, BUT it does show that these guys just haven't got a clue, and remember, he or his boss probably have a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangnanglao Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 As an EE, I can say you should never have 120/220 AC anywhere near a pool. All lighting should be double isolated low voltage (12V) only. Until a few years ago there was no such thing as a 3-wire grounded circuit in Thailand, but now all new buildings have a 3rd ground prong for safety (assuming that is, that it's actually connected to a solid earth connection in the basement) and the neutral wire should be bonded to earth back at its source (the local pole transformer). In the U.S. a metal water pipe coming from the street main is sufficient for grounding, but here in Thailand, it's all plastic piping so a proper earthing rod would be required - usually a 1/2" diameter copper plated steel rod about 6 to 8 feet long driven into the earth. Beyond that, all electrical outlets in kitchens, laundries, bathrooms, pool areas - anywhere it's wet, should have a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) type outlet socket installed. That will save you even if you don't have a solid ground at the socket. It senses any minute current flowing through your body to ground and instantly opens the circuit, preventing electric shock. But in the absence of any official building inspection for construction, plumbing, electrical, etc, all bets are off as to what the ground prong in your socket is actually connected to, and whether the neutral is bonded to earth). If in doubt, you can buy cheap testers to see if the electrical system in your home is safe. Like a former gf once said, "If everything here was clean, and safe, it wouldn't also be cheap". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I guess if Thailand wants to be first world it needs building standards, inspections, enforcement plus proper education and certification of electricians. Until this happens, dont expect any change. When I look up "standards, inspections, or enforcement" in my Real World English-Thai dictionary it keeps coming back with "mai bpen rai." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangnanglao Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 If you are installing a water heater in your home and there's no solid ground, then the electrician had a point - there's nothing to connect the green wire to. All piping tends to be plastic. All water heaters have built-in GFCI circuits, so you won't get shocked in the shower in the event of an internal short circuit where the heater element came in contact with the water. There's a test button on the heater - try it once in a while to make sure it's working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirchai Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 12 volt lighting could be used here and earthing should be compulsory maybe it is already is in certain situation's but not done. My next door neighbour has just had a timber deck laid with about 50% open to the rain etc he has uplights about 20 of them linked together plugged into a single wall socket no trip switch fitted all work done by the same guy . I worry for him. 12 Volts wouldn't kill you. However what a tragic END of a holiday in LOS! Checks should be all over the country, it happens too often here. Time for a "World Class Standard Wiring System" for this country. They don't run plus over the switch, so when a light is switched off, it's still hot. Too hot for me. RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newermonkey Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 RIP Have heard often that Thai electricity is different - doesn't need grounding. Different to the UK in as much that its 120 Volts AC here vs. 140 Volts AC. so not enough difference to not to kill you if you ground the live pole through your body to ground. (the heart will normally stop as soon as the voltage floods it because the heart is naturally controlled by very small electrical signals) What is different is the working standards of installation and fittings used here. Every metal case, conduit, pipe or railing close to any installation should be grounded so the current wont ground through people and should cause a "ground fault" that should cause the breaker to trip. There should be a HUGE change in the quality of workmanship standards and fittings to avoid this and the thousands of people who are killed every year with electric shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newermonkey Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 As an EE, I can say you should never have 120/220 AC anywhere near a pool. All lighting should be double isolated low voltage (12V) only. Until a few years ago there was no such thing as a 3-wire grounded circuit in Thailand, but now all new buildings have a 3rd ground prong for safety (assuming that is, that it's actually connected to a solid earth connection in the basement) and the neutral wire should be bonded to earth back at its source (the local pole transformer). In the U.S. a metal water pipe coming from the street main is sufficient for grounding, but here in Thailand, it's all plastic piping so a proper earthing rod would be required - usually a 1/2" diameter copper plated steel rod about 6 to 8 feet long driven into the earth. Beyond that, all electrical outlets in kitchens, laundries, bathrooms, pool areas - anywhere it's wet, should have a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) type outlet socket installed. That will save you even if you don't have a solid ground at the socket. It senses any minute current flowing through your body to ground and instantly opens the circuit, preventing electric shock. But in the absence of any official building inspection for construction, plumbing, electrical, etc, all bets are off as to what the ground prong in your socket is actually connected to, and whether the neutral is bonded to earth). If in doubt, you can buy cheap testers to see if the electrical system in your home is safe. Like a former gf once said, "If everything here was clean, and safe, it wouldn't also be cheap". Most if not all Thai EE's would not have a clue about what you are talking about !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enuff said Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 . "A recent study conducted by the National Coroners Information System (NCIS) in Australia has revealed three-hundred and twenty-one (321) closed case fatalities (and at least 39 case fatalities still under coronial investigation) that had been reported to Australian coroners where a person died from electrocution between July 2000 and October 2011." Chill out guys. This kind of thing happens everywhere. 360 deaths in super safe OZ with only 22 million people. Thailand's population is three times that. So a thousand deaths a year could be expected and Thailand would be no worse than Ozzie. 'nuff said ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMHERE Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Why now? Did the pool just open? You'd think it would have happened already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsweird Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think if Thailand wants to boost tourism it should start with a complete safety inspection of ALL public and hotel pools. Just a few years back I recall an incident in the south where an overhead electric line broke, falling into the pool and killing. The blind leading the blind approach in regard to safety here should not be tolerated anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackthorn2005 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Awful story.... But thats what you get when you fail to Earth properly... RIP fella Expect more of the same, it has been happening here for a long time and will continue yo happen, you are not safe anywhere, even in 5 star resorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litlos Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sorry to hear of this guy getting electrocuted. However a few facts may be of interest to fellow forumers. I have been working here 10 years in the electrical/Instrument field. During this time I have never seen a Thai Electrical Workers licence or a formal set of Thai Electrical Standards. Both of these items do not exist for practical purposes. The other problem is the popular earth leakage protection device for Thailand the Safe-T-Cut has a bypass position, so very easily bypassed and no longer offering protection. So something to have a look at for your house or whatever is. Does it have a Safe-T-Cut or similar? Is it bypassed? Does it work correctly when the Test button is pushed? Answer no to any of these questions and you are at risk of accidental electrocution. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingjok Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That a father should be killed in front of his family due to the ignorance and stupidity of an electrician and his management is an outrage. The most junior first-week electrician knows that extraneous metal parts anywhere near a pool must be bonded to earth (ground), and all electrical supplies to the area must have RCD protection. RCDs are widely available in Thailand so there is absolutely NO excuse. Perhaps someone was saving a thousand Baht? The most basic test and inspection routine before opening a hotel to the public would have revealed these basic defects. This is corporate manslaughter: the hotel owners, the electrician, and the electrician’s employers should pay heavy fines and go to jail for a long time. In any civilized country this would happen. This kind of thing would benefit from international media coverage and follow-up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyoldman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Why now? Did the pool just open? You'd think it would have happened already. They rushed the construction to get this place open in December. I remember being on the grounds in November and it looked half done. I asked when they were opening and they said before Christmas. I said....... "really"??? Also, if you think this place is five star, then I can convince you my Honda Dream is actually a Ducati. NFW is that place a five star resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebike Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Different to the UK in as much that its 120 Volts AC here vs. 140 Volts AC. Isn't that 220 and 240... I thought North America was the only 110/120 continent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingjok Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Different to the UK in as much that its 120 Volts AC here vs. 140 Volts AC. Rubbish! The usual supply in Thailand is 230/400V 50Hz, the same as in UK. (ie 230V nominal live to neutral/earth, 400V between any two of the three phases. Although in practice it’s usually 240/415V). Edited March 8, 2012 by Jingjok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necronx99 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 . "A recent study conducted by the National Coroners Information System (NCIS) in Australia has revealed three-hundred and twenty-one (321) closed case fatalities (and at least 39 case fatalities still under coronial investigation) that had been reported to Australian coroners where a person died from electrocution between July 2000 and October 2011." Chill out guys. This kind of thing happens everywhere. 360 deaths in super safe OZ with only 22 million people. Thailand's population is three times that. So a thousand deaths a year could be expected and Thailand would be no worse than Ozzie. 'nuff said ~ And how many died in the recent government sponsored home insulation scheme (fire, electrocuted workers)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litlos Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Different to the UK in as much that its 120 Volts AC here vs. 140 Volts AC. Rubbish! The usual supply in Thailand is 230/400V 50Hz, the same as in UK. (ie 230V nominal live to neutral/earth, 400V between any two of the three phases. Although in practice it’s usually 240/415V). Not quite. Nominal Thai voltage is 220V single phase and 380V 3 phase. The Thai single phase is Phase to Neutral as is UK, Australia, Europe etc. American 110/120v is Phase to Neutral, American 220v is phase to phase, though still referred to as single phase. Irrelevant really as it will all still kill as it does not discriminate. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osiboy Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 12 volt lighting could be used here and earthing should be compulsory maybe it is already is in certain situation's but not done. My next door neighbour has just had a timber deck laid with about 50% open to the rain etc he has uplights about 20 of them linked together plugged into a single wall socket no trip switch fitted all work done by the same guy . I worry for him. ..........i worry for you mate,..water could carry the curant to your home too , even if yours is earthed , standing in the same water could be serious . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhvdberg Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I never reply to the stories here and certainly not to the replies. But I want to try today. So many articles and so many people responding to it. But many times the reply becomes negative about Thai people and Thailand. I understand the reasons for being negative, but why stay in a country where the people are stupid and the rules are wrong? When you really feel that Thai people are stupid and that Thailand is bad, why don't you go to your own country. Feeling negative and being negative makes your neighbours and your friends negative. Your whole world will become negative and depressing. And is that what you want? I agree that many mistakes are made. But I also look at all accidents that happen back home or any place. I think I have no place to go, because there is always something to complain about. I am not saying that we should ignore everything, but seeing all the negative same respondings here, I just felt I had to say something today. I wish everybody who stays here in Thailand a good stay and that you can enjoy the good things that Thailand has to offer. And for those who like to reply to this in a negative way, I can only wish you a short life so that you can go to paradise and enjoy your stay there. But I am going to enjoy my life here, in Thailand with all it's mistakes and crazy things..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertson468 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sad story, i hope other hotel owners are reading this, and taking appropriate action ! Sadly, some how I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachiebkk Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Just sad, a family man and now a family deprived of a father, husband and probably benefactor. Shake my head in anger and sadness. Sometimes i just hate this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingjok Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I wish everybody who stays here in Thailand a good stay and that you can enjoy the good things that Thailand has to offer. And for those who like to reply to this in a negative way, I can only wish you a short life so that you can go to paradise and enjoy your stay there. What a vile thing to say. Would you say that to the face of this man’s little daughter? You are either a horrible person, or new to Thailand, or maybe both. Time might change your attitude. I understand the reasons for being negative, but why stay in a country where the people are stupid and the rules are wrong? I didn’t. I spent five years in Phuket, but sold my house last month and returned to Europe/ Malaysia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osiboy Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Every hotel/guesthouse which is using the poor standard of two-wires electric should be closed immediately and checked before re-opening. Too many accidents happened already, not just in the pool area, but also in bathrooms with improper wired waters heaters. Sometimes the heater is installed not even half a meter from the shower-head If they gonna do that, then 90% of the tourists in Thailand have to spend their holidays somewhere else as it is so common in LOS (land of sadness) will never happen ! , do you seriously think any would be closed down ?? , 1000b to grease a dirty palm would be an instant pass !!....THIS IS THAILAND ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachiebkk Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I never reply to the stories here and certainly not to the replies. But I want to try today. So many articles and so many people responding to it. But many times the reply becomes negative about Thai people and Thailand. I understand the reasons for being negative, but why stay in a country where the people are stupid and the rules are wrong? When you really feel that Thai people are stupid and that Thailand is bad, why don't you go to your own country. Feeling negative and being negative makes your neighbours and your friends negative. Your whole world will become negative and depressing. And is that what you want? I agree that many mistakes are made. But I also look at all accidents that happen back home or any place. I think I have no place to go, because there is always something to complain about. I am not saying that we should ignore everything, but seeing all the negative same respondings here, I just felt I had to say something today. I wish everybody who stays here in Thailand a good stay and that you can enjoy the good things that Thailand has to offer. And for those who like to reply to this in a negative way, I can only wish you a short life so that you can go to paradise and enjoy your stay there. But I am going to enjoy my life here, in Thailand with all it's mistakes and crazy things..... Think it was a mix of positive and negative that caused the whole thing. You are right in a lot of respects that 'if you don't like it here then go back to your own country' and things like this happen elsewhere. However working in the travel business I see a blatant disregard for hotel safety here. I keep telling my Thai staff not to think about how difficult things are for your service providers in your country, think like a farang tourist coming here for the first time and wrongly assuming its simply okay to go for a swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingjok Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Not quite. Nominal Thai voltage is 220V single phase and 380V 3 phase. The Thai single phase is Phase to Neutral as is UK, Australia, Europe etc. American 110/120v is Phase to Neutral, American 220v is phase to phase, though still referred to as single phase. Irrelevant really as it will all still kill as it does not discriminate. Cheers Thanks, Litlos. I stand corrected. But at my place in Phuket it usually metered around 236V L-N. We occasionally have the US system in UK too, from rural overhead supplies. Here it’s called ‘split-phase’ three-wire (230/460V; again 240/480 in reality). All interesting stuff, but we are talking about a man needlessly killed here: it’s improper to derail the thread so I’ll shut up about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yummypizza Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 No comment , RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newermonkey Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Different to the UK in as much that its 120 Volts AC here vs. 140 Volts AC. Rubbish! The usual supply in Thailand is 230/400V 50Hz, the same as in UK. (ie 230V nominal live to neutral/earth, 400V between any two of the three phases. Although in practice it’s usually 240/415V). Sorry correction 220 and 240 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its Not the same in the uk its 20 volts different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newermonkey Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Different to the UK in as much that its 120 Volts AC here vs. 140 Volts AC. Isn't that 220 and 240... I thought North America was the only 110/120 continent... Yes I made a typo its 220 & 240 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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