New Deportation Condition Changes!

[Ricci]

i just don't understand why it's always the unofficial way first before they come up with officialy announced law changes.

Law hasn't changed.

the title of this thread says different

New Deportation Condition Changes!

The LAW is unchanged.

so how do you change policies and conditions of laws without changing them?

[beano2274]

i just don't understand why it's always the unofficial way first before they come up with officialy announced law changes.

Law hasn't changed.

the title of this thread says different

New Deportation Condition Changes!

The LAW is unchanged.

Just the conditions have changed, not the law

[TerryLH]

When I originally asked what the source for the info was i didn't recall reading some of BadBankers other posts about helping others in situations like these.

Whenever there are law or enforcement changes, there are often unintended consequences. They may or may not be dealt with at a later time. In the meantime some folks might be caught in situations that don't seem fair to casual onlookers.

My passport has an information page reminding me that I am subject to the laws of whatever country I'm in, and that the penalties for violating local laws might not be the same as in my country.

For some of you, giving examples from other countries has no relevance here.

I'm thankful for help people like BadBanker do, and hope I never personally need his help.

[jamesthefirst]

Although I would never encourage anyone to overstay, and am certainly not defending overstayers, I am however wondering very much as to how people who overstay their visas could be a burden on the Thai economy, Thai government or otherwise. It's not as if they're here claiming benefits or anything.

Edited March 19, 2012 by jamesthefirst

[beano2274]

Although I would never encourage anyone to overstay, and am certainly not defending overstayers, I am however wondering very much as to how people who overstay their visas could be a burden on the Thai economy, Thai government or otherwise. It's not as if they're here claiming benefits or anything.

It would depend on why they are on overstay, like I previously stated my mate had nothing relied on others to help him, was a burden on those around him, who were mostly Thai.

Best thing to do is not to overstay and respect the laws of the country you are visiting.

Thinking about it I could overstay and collect unemployment benefit for a few months as have paid my taxes. But that is really not the thing for me.

Edited March 19, 2012 by beano2274

[p_brownstone]

Although I would never encourage anyone to overstay, and am certainly not defending overstayers, I am however wondering very much as to how people who overstay their visas could be a burden on the Thai economy, Thai government or otherwise. It's not as if they're here claiming benefits or anything.

There are always Post like this on similar Threads.

Simply put, the Law is there and must be obeyed. Whether you are a burden on Society or the Thai Economy makes absolutely no difference

Go and Overstay in the U.S. or U.K. - or most other Countries - and try using a similar argument!

Patrick

[TinoThailand]

Most people on this forum know I work in and around the IDC almost every week and assist people get deported and go home in an organised manner.

Last week I did 5 deportations and suddenly realised that I had not made a note of this change of policy to people on Thai Visa.

If you wish to voluntarily leave by paying the 20 k at the airport and flying out to get a new visa in an adjacent country, you may still do that.

Previously It could be arranged for British nationals to be deported to a place for which you have no right of entry refusal as in Hong Kong.

That has now changed! If you are arrested or voluntarily surrender to immigration even after 5 days overstay expect to be deported to your country of origin.

Just thinking about it I realised that I had not told the forum about this change in policy.

Hello sir,

So in simple for this Dutch: Before you could have 1 year overstay, pay 20 k, fly out and come back and enter and do the same again? Now they change this because people abuse the rule that it would never be more then 20 k in Baht?

[dantilley]

^ No, people can still do what you described. What's changed is the penalties for if you get caught in-country while on overstay.

[animatic]

Most people on this forum know I work in and around the IDC almost every week and assist people get deported and go home in an organised manner.

Last week I did 5 deportations and suddenly realised that I had not made a note of this change of policy to people on Thai Visa.

If you wish to voluntarily leave by paying the 20 k at the airport and flying out to get a new visa in an adjacent country, you may still do that.

Previously It could be arranged for British nationals to be deported to a place for which you have no right of entry refusal as in Hong Kong.

That has now changed! If you are arrested or voluntarily surrender to immigration even after 5 days overstay expect to be deported to your country of origin.

Just thinking about it I realised that I had not told the forum about this change in policy.

5 days of over stay by accident, and shipped back to USA or Canada... seems rather draconian to me.

I can see a habitual scoflaw over stayer yes, 30-90 days, but not such a short time as a week.

That should be a fine that gets their attention, but shipped back across the globe seems more than just harsh.

[kruangfaifar]

Surely common sense would prevale if a person (for example)is severely injured in a motor bike accident and during his/her time in hospital their visa expires.How on earth do you come to a conclusion that 'they are criminals'...ridiculous state of affairs if this is the case!

the hospital can assist them in this case.

Correct. I had the misfortune to spend several months in hospital a while back and the hospital staff took care of visa extensions for me very efficiently. I never had to show my face at the Immigration office.

[johnopolo]

What many people here seem to overlook is that all countries (including their own country) have immigration rules and regulations, which include "overstay penalties". One can't just breeze in and out and about as you please - not anywhere. So, just respect the law and you'll be fine. Break the law and you're looking for trouble - no matter what country you're in - and you'll only have yourself to blame!

[LawThai]

Persons who do have overstay could pay at the border, when the police get you before you have a problem, if you are hospitalised before your visa expires you do not need to worry, the hospital wil give you suport. However when you come out and think,,, I was in the hospital you think wrong. You can when you feel that you are not treathed fair, go to see a lawyer ,start a court case and stay in the country untill the courtcase has been final.Before you get deported the immigration need a court order, and you could go in apeal.

The Thai system maybe looks terible but it isn`t.

If you have problems please send to my email: we can get you out of the country or solve any problem. ANY.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Lite Beer
E Mail removed

[Badbanker]

Sorry I am late but court and bail was very long.

I have a picture of the deportation form that I will upload as soon as I figure out how to do it and then I will go home and trry to answer each of your questions one by one. This may not be till 6 or 7 pm.

BB

[Eff1n2ret]

Sorry I am late but court and bail was very long.

I have a picture of the deportation form that I will upload as soon as I figure out how to do it and then I will go home and trry to answer each of your questions one by one. This may not be till 6 or 7 pm.

BB

So is that a new form, then, or has it just been amended to specify the destination as "Country of origin"?

This seems to me a lot of fuss about nothing. Given that most people would expect to travel back to their own country, the proposal to ensure that they do just that and that they may be brought to the attention of the authorities on arrival doesn't make much difference, unless they are wanted by the law in their own country. Anyone who has no criminal record has nothing to fear, they'll just be sent on their way.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Maestro
Deleted part of the post that was about another country.

[Maestro]

Badbanker,

I for 1 have no idea who you are and this is the first time I have seen your posts. You say you are on your way to court? If you are going to post on TV where many of us look to in order to be up-dated and made aware of different issues then I for 1 would like to know the source of this "new law" etc.

Any one of us can come on here spouting what we call "facts" with little or no source at all so please explain who you are or why you feel you have this info fist hand etc. Are you a bad banker or a lawyer ?

The law: the Immigration Act. This has not changed.

The facts: what you can observe yourself in court when you go to the court that handles these cases. Please be so kind as to post your observations here in this topic. Thank you very much.

[kujirasan]

Please understand this - no law has been changed! Nothing needs to be "officially announced". There isn't "due process" even for Thai citizens! You have no rights here, why should you feel entitled to fair treatment?

Get used to it, accept it and deal with it. Or go live somewhere else. . .

If you are personally genuinely worried that you might be forced to return to your own country, then make sure you have 20,000K in hand when you head for the airport and you're free to head to any destination you like, no harm no foul. In the meantime make sure you don't do anything to attract the attention of the authorities, don't piss off any business competitor or make your girlfriend jealous, anything like that could easily result in you landing in the monkey house and being put on a plane back to your country.

Best of luck with your troubles. . .

LOL,

Couldn't have been better explained! our friend puts it in a nutshell with ease eloquence and in simple English!

Edited March 19, 2012 by kujirasan

[Badbanker]

Badbanker,

I for 1 have no idea who you are and this is the first time I have seen your posts. You say you are on your way to court? If you are going to post on TV where many of us look to in order to be up-dated and made aware of different issues then I for 1 would like to know the source of this "new law" etc.

Any one of us can come on here spouting what we call "facts" with little or no source at all so please explain who you are or why you feel you have this info fist hand etc. Are you a bad banker or a lawyer ?

The law: the Immigration Act. This has not changed.

The facts: what you can observe yourself in court when you go to the court that handles these cases. Please be so kind as to post your observations here in this topic. Thank you very much.

Thank you Maestro for your lucid appraisal.

George knows me well, along with Lopburi3 and several other moderators. I have worked with Simon43 for some time and have been in Thailand 24 years. I am neither Bad a Banker or for that matter a lawyer, but due to the nature of what I do, live in a semi legal world a lot of which is involving immigration matters.

It is true I have been in court for most of the afternoon.

True, the Immigration Act has not been changed! However It is true that due to one incident that I was involved with changed the way in which deportations are now undertaken and are handled in a very different manner to what they used to be. This one persons action caused a major change to how we are all now treated, and show that if we do not start to respect this overstay thing it can get tougher.

Due to constraints on my time I am not able to post on this forum as much as I wish. Anyone who has been on this forum for 5 years or more will have seen my postings. I have come out of hibernation because of the importance of this issue to many people on this forum

Edited March 19, 2012 by Badbanker

[cliffbu]

I have seen people who are Spanish but Swiss residents be deported to Spain even tho they have no family or home to go to.

Seems rather normal to me . International law stipulate that you must send people back to the country of which they have the nationality So if you have Spanish nationality and live suppose in Japan they have to sent you too Spain .Nothing strange about this . And what concerning the passports handed over to the captain is a normal procedure .British Immigration do this already more than 30 years.

[Badbanker]

It now seems this thread has gone off on multiple tangents aside from the original posting.

Sadly this new action has made life difficult for many unfortunate deportees, who have fallen on hard times, overstayed and then had to pay the huge cost for a ticket home that they can ill afford. Many of them now spend a long time at the IDC where as before they could have flown 2 hours and come back to their families.

I'm going to bed and will review things in the morning!

BB

[Maestro]

This topic has drifted so far off topic that I shall now go and delete all off-topic posts and the replies to them, and the same will happen to future posts of this nature. The topic is far too important to leave it clustered with all these off-topic posts.

To summarise, this topic, based on the topic title and the first post in the topic (the OP) and some of later posts, made by a member who on a daily basis assists foreigners who get arrested, detained, sentenced and deported, is about the following:

1. A shift in deportation policy. Whereas previously a deportee was usually free to go to any country of his choice that would have him, he now must return to the country whose passport he holds. Wheresas previously the deportee was accompanied by police to the immigration desk at departure, or perhaps to the door of the airplane, and there handed back his passport, now the passport is given to the captain of the aircraft, who gives the deportee and the passport to law enforcement officials at any transit stop, and these officials ensure that the passport and passenger is given to the captain of the ongoing aircraft, who then hands the deportee and his passport to the Immigration authorities in the deportee's country of origin.
   
2. Whereas previously an overstayer could go to the local immigration office to pay his overstay fine, with a ticket for his flight out of Thailand in his hands, and then proceed to the airport and leave, it is now much more likely that the immigration office will get him detained and brought to court, resulting in a deportation order. (No apparent change, though, in those cases where an overstayer goes directly to the airport and volunteers to pay his fine there on departure)
   

This topic is not about historical anecdotes about overstay experiences in years gone by, not about work permits, not about teachers, not about anything than the two points listed above.

Obviously, a deportation order is part of a court order sentencing a person for a violation of a law to a fine and/or imprisonment plus deportation. The sentence may be for a legal transgression accompanied or not by an overstay, or for an overstay alone.

[reenatinnakor]

Posted Today, 06:11

Previously It could be arranged for British nationals to be deported to a place for which you have no right of entry refusal as in Hong Kong.

That has now changed! If you are arrested or voluntarily surrender to immigration even after 5 days overstay expect to be deported to your country of origin.

Just thinking about it I realised that I had not told the forum about this change in policy.

What happens if you have permanent residency in another country not of your origin? I have a permanent HKID, green card, British and Philippines passport......don't ask me why....I just do! Where will they deport me to? Not everything is black and white.....money will still talk in the Land of Smiles....I'm sure the overstayers will be fine.

[purushanti]

Just checking: Can someone who knows confirm my surmise that "IDC" means "Immigration Detention Center"? Thanks.

[Carib]

Just checking: Can someone who knows confirm my surmise that "IDC" means "Immigration Detention Center"? Thanks.

Correct.

[Beetlejuice]

It is as I have said many times here on Thai visa, keep saying and hoping people will listen.

That the reckless actions of others, those that break and bend the laws here in Thailand will have severe repercussions on all of us.

And I`m going to keep saying it until I`m blue in the face,

This pertains to those that buy land, property, businesses all using Thai upfront people, working without permits, overstayings that believe by just paying a fine it gets them off the hook.

Some commit the acts, all will pay the price.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[TAWP]

What happens if you have permanent residency in another country not of your origin? I have a permanent HKID, green card, British and Philippines passport......don't ask me why....I just do! Where will they deport me to? Not everything is black and white.....money will still talk in the Land of Smiles....I'm sure the overstayers will be fine.

Which passport did you enter the nation on?

[Maestro]

What happens if you have permanent residency in another country not of your origin? I have a permanent HKID, green card, British and Philippines passport......don't ask me why....I just do! Where will they deport me to? Not everything is black and white.....money will still talk in the Land of Smiles....I'm sure the overstayers will be fine.

BadBanker alluded to this in the following post:

I have seen people who are Spanish but Swiss residents be deported to Spain even tho they have no family or home to go to.

You have the added complication of having two passports. Logic dictates that you would be deported to the country whose passport you chose to use for entry into Thailand but who knows, you might be given a choice between the UK and the Philippines if you asked for it.

[Maestro]

Note to myself and other moderators: I have cleaned this topic up to this point.

Note to members: if you come across an off-topic or troll post I missed or a reply to a post that has since been deleted, kindly click on the report button below the post in question and a moderator will deal with it. Thank you.

[Maestro]

What happens if you have permanent residency in another country not of your origin? I have a permanent HKID, green card, British and Philippines passport......don't ask me why....I just do! Where will they deport me to? Not everything is black and white.....money will still talk in the Land of Smiles....I'm sure the overstayers will be fine.

Which passport did you enter the nation on?

TAWP, I understand the question of reenationnakor to be hypothethical, ie that he is not in Thailand at the moment.

[QualityTouristNumberOne]

Jesus christ I'd hate to be the good samaritan offering help to some of the members of Thai Visa...

some of you should be ashamed,

this chap who is obviously busy,well known by some senior members AND spends his time helping people out of difficult situations vis a vis Immigration matters comes on with an important update and gets the twenty questions with a side order of water boarding treatment in return.

Post counts don't mean everything(or in fact ANYTHING) people,

Thank you very much for the information Badbanker.

[David48]

I totally agree with what QualityTouristNumberOne said ...

But more importantly personally thank BadBanker for taking the time and effort to report what he viewed and the Mods agreed was important news for us who visit the Kingdom on a regular basis.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Maestro
Deleted part of post that referred to a deleted post.