Travel2003 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Personally I find the title of this thread spot on. I find it amusing to see how people can actually doubt his skills, and try to come up with reasons why this player is not that good. One of them being how he performs for Argentina. Put the guy between the goal posts, and you will have even more ammunition I guess. I remember when the "moron" Maradona tried with "the three midgets" up front for Argentina, and they could not understand why they did not score more goals. After all, they were all such good attackers for their teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmine Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Personally I find the title of this thread spot on. I find it amusing to see how people can actually doubt his skills, and try to come up with reasons why this player is not that good. One of them being how he performs for Argentina. Put the guy between the goal posts, and you will have even more ammunition I guess. I remember when the "moron" Maradona tried with "the three midgets" up front for Argentina, and they could not understand why they did not score more goals. After all, they were all such good attackers for their teams. I haven't heard anyone saying he's not that good! Many people think as i do that he's the best player on the planet by a distance but its somewhat too early yet to put him at the same level as the career achievements of Pele and Maradona. I'm afraid the flaw in your post is revealed when you refer to a footballing genius as a moron, clearly showing a dislike for the player even though this has nothing to do with his ability. I do think that Messi might well become the best ever although i'm a strong believer that in sport you can only be the best of your generation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Personally I find the title of this thread spot on. I find it amusing to see how people can actually doubt his skills, and try to come up with reasons why this player is not that good. One of them being how he performs for Argentina. Put the guy between the goal posts, and you will have even more ammunition I guess. I remember when the "moron" Maradona tried with "the three midgets" up front for Argentina, and they could not understand why they did not score more goals. After all, they were all such good attackers for their teams. I haven't heard anyone saying he's not that good! Many people think as i do that he's the best player on the planet by a distance but its somewhat too early yet to put him at the same level as the career achievements of Pele and Maradona. I'm afraid the flaw in your post is revealed when you refer to a footballing genius as a moron, clearly showing a dislike for the player even though this has nothing to do with his ability. I do think that Messi might well become the best ever although i'm a strong believer that in sport you can only be the best of your generation The game has changed to such an extent since Maradona's day....I think now he would have been in an ambulance by 20 and never played again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmine Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Personally I find the title of this thread spot on. I find it amusing to see how people can actually doubt his skills, and try to come up with reasons why this player is not that good. One of them being how he performs for Argentina. Put the guy between the goal posts, and you will have even more ammunition I guess. I remember when the "moron" Maradona tried with "the three midgets" up front for Argentina, and they could not understand why they did not score more goals. After all, they were all such good attackers for their teams. I haven't heard anyone saying he's not that good! Many people think as i do that he's the best player on the planet by a distance but its somewhat too early yet to put him at the same level as the career achievements of Pele and Maradona. I'm afraid the flaw in your post is revealed when you refer to a footballing genius as a moron, clearly showing a dislike for the player even though this has nothing to do with his ability. I do think that Messi might well become the best ever although i'm a strong believer that in sport you can only be the best of your generation The game has changed to such an extent since Maradona's day....I think now he would have been in an ambulance by 20 and never played again! There was much harsher treatment dealt out to him than would be allowed now. Opposing players used to share out the yellow cards when playing against him. I think, if he was training properly he'd be even better in the modern day. More protected aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Possibly....yet no one plays with such an individualistic dribbling skill nowadays really. Let's just hope Gareth continues to improve more and more... Yes, I whisper his name even in such company... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmine Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Possibly....yet no one plays with such an individualistic dribbling skill nowadays really. Let's just hope Gareth continues to improve more and more... Yes, I whisper his name even in such company... No one plays in that way because no one can...not even Messi . The one thing that Messi obviously already posseses that is superior to Maradona is temperment. This is one major reason why i think he could become a better player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Possibly....yet no one plays with such an individualistic dribbling skill nowadays really. Let's just hope Gareth continues to improve more and more... Yes, I whisper his name even in such company... No one plays in that way because no one can...not even Messi . The one thing that Messi obviously already posseses that is superior to Maradona is temperment. This is one major reason why i think he could become a better player Likely a lot longer at the top I agree. Maradona had major character flaws.....Messi is certainly the most complete footballer....I think Ronaldo suffers a bit with his temperament as well. It seems Messi will be staying in Barcelona however....to have played in all the major leagues would be more of a test but won't happen I suppose, which is a pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieH Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Many people think as i do that he's the best player on the planet by a distance but its somewhat too early yet to put him at the same level as the career achievements of Pele and Maradona. i always find it hard to comment on pele because i've seen so little of him. grainy video clips and highlight reels and word of mouth from people who saw him play - that's all there is really. hard to make any realistic comment on a player you've never watched live or at least as-live on telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmine Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Many people think as i do that he's the best player on the planet by a distance but its somewhat too early yet to put him at the same level as the career achievements of Pele and Maradona. i always find it hard to comment on pele because i've seen so little of him. grainy video clips and highlight reels and word of mouth from people who saw him play - that's all there is really. hard to make any realistic comment on a player you've never watched live or at least as-live on telly. Surely you can comment on his "achievements" can't you? I mean, they sort of stand out as fairly phenominal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieH Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Surely you can comment on his "achievements" can't you? I mean, they sort of stand out as fairly phenominal. i guess so but i wasn't alive to understand their context. a lot of his goals are meant to have been scored in friendlies and practice matches for example. did some amazing things with brasil winning the world cups they did but never played club football in europe. so the context isn't there for me. whereas i saw maradona play in spain and italy and for argentina in world cups. it's just different, i'm not particularly having a pop at the viagra-hawker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmine Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Surely you can comment on his "achievements" can't you? I mean, they sort of stand out as fairly phenominal. i guess so but i wasn't alive to understand their context. a lot of his goals are meant to have been scored in friendlies and practice matches for example. did some amazing things with brasil winning the world cups they did but never played club football in europe. so the context isn't there for me. whereas i saw maradona play in spain and italy and for argentina in world cups. it's just different, i'm not particularly having a pop at the viagra-hawker. Thats fair enough. It goes back a bit to what i was saying before about trying to draw comparisons with different generations. Not just the physical side to consider but also different laws, interpretations etc......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I suppose winning World Cup's is what matters for posterity. Personally I would place Zico amongst that group of best players ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieH Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I suppose winning World Cup's is what matters for posterity. Personally I would place Zico amongst that group of best players ever. but of course zico never won a world cup. interesting one that, i loved zico but don't think he'd qualify for that top players ever bracket. yet quite a few other brasilians probably would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I suppose winning World Cup's is what matters for posterity. Personally I would place Zico amongst that group of best players ever. but of course zico never won a world cup. interesting one that, i loved zico but don't think he'd qualify for that top players ever bracket. yet quite a few other brasilians probably would. I was thinking just for overall skill, rather than his contribution to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travel2003 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Personally I find the title of this thread spot on. I find it amusing to see how people can actually doubt his skills, and try to come up with reasons why this player is not that good. One of them being how he performs for Argentina. Put the guy between the goal posts, and you will have even more ammunition I guess. I remember when the "moron" Maradona tried with "the three midgets" up front for Argentina, and they could not understand why they did not score more goals. After all, they were all such good attackers for their teams. I haven't heard anyone saying he's not that good! Many people think as i do that he's the best player on the planet by a distance but its somewhat too early yet to put him at the same level as the career achievements of Pele and Maradona. I'm afraid the flaw in your post is revealed when you refer to a footballing genius as a moron, clearly showing a dislike for the player even though this has nothing to do with his ability. I do think that Messi might well become the best ever although i'm a strong believer that in sport you can only be the best of your generation That's the flaw? Really? I believe there is a general agreement all over the board here, except you of course, that Maradona was absolutely a brilliant footballer, a moron, and a stinking bad coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Maradona certainly has an addictive nature in the same way as Gazza. Now there is a player who could have been up there alongside them...had he applied himself properly and sadly received better guidance. Pains me to say it but he should have gone to Man Yoo.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmine Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Personally I find the title of this thread spot on. I find it amusing to see how people can actually doubt his skills, and try to come up with reasons why this player is not that good. One of them being how he performs for Argentina. Put the guy between the goal posts, and you will have even more ammunition I guess. I remember when the "moron" Maradona tried with "the three midgets" up front for Argentina, and they could not understand why they did not score more goals. After all, they were all such good attackers for their teams. I haven't heard anyone saying he's not that good! Many people think as i do that he's the best player on the planet by a distance but its somewhat too early yet to put him at the same level as the career achievements of Pele and Maradona. I'm afraid the flaw in your post is revealed when you refer to a footballing genius as a moron, clearly showing a dislike for the player even though this has nothing to do with his ability. I do think that Messi might well become the best ever although i'm a strong believer that in sport you can only be the best of your generation That's the flaw? Really? I believe there is a general agreement all over the board here, except you of course, that Maradona was absolutely a brilliant footballer, a moron, and a stinking bad coach. Don't be a <deleted>, theres a good lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The game has changed to such an extent since Maradona's day....I think now he would have been in an ambulance by 20 and never played again! I can only assume you are joking; The Butcher of Bilbao broke his leg with one of the worst tackles I've ever seen, and he spent most of his time at Napoli having to have cortisone injections before every game. I think players are generally much better protected now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieH Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I was thinking just for overall skill, rather than his contribution to the team. \ great player of course zico, but for overall skill you can reel off a chain of brasilians. pele, garrincha, gerson, rivelino, zico, socrates, eder, romario, rivaldo, ronaldinho, kaka. . . .my favourite brasil player of the past 20 years or so is ronaldo. just an incredible player and often overlooked in those best striker polls for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travel2003 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Don't be a <deleted>, theres a good lad Right......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I was thinking just for overall skill, rather than his contribution to the team. \ great player of course zico, but for overall skill you can reel off a chain of brasilians. pele, garrincha, gerson, rivelino, zico, socrates, eder, romario, rivaldo, ronaldinho, kaka. . . .my favourite brasil player of the past 20 years or so is ronaldo. just an incredible player and often overlooked in those best striker polls for some reason. I forgot about Eder....yeah maybe not Rivaldo though eh? I wonder how good the next Brazilian team will be with their youngsters coming through now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 2 more tonight for the little man v 2nd division Cordoba in the first leg Copa Del Rey last 16 Nos 87 and 88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieH Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I forgot about Eder....yeah maybe not Rivaldo though eh? I wonder how good the next Brazilian team will be with their youngsters coming through now. rivaldo was amazing. he gets a bad rep because of his playacting in the world cup that time and because he looks like a corpse. for barcelona he was incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRed Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I would like to see him come and play in the Premier League,he has been at Barca for 12 years now and is still only 25 so i hope he gives it a go. The price would be worth it if he scores with the same regularity! The best player around by a country mile now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmine Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I would like to see him come and play in the Premier League,he has been at Barca for 12 years now and is still only 25 so i hope he gives it a go. The price would be worth it if he scores with the same regularity! The best player around by a country mile now. I don't think he'll leave Barca until the twilight of his career. Maybe then he'll go to the states for a season. Mindyou, having had to put up with sunny Barcelona for all those years perhaps the charm and climate of manchester might appeal to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRed Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Messi in a united shirt is just a dream but City or Chelsea could just about afford him and his wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travel2003 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Messi in a united shirt is just a dream but City or Chelsea could just about afford him and his wages. I'm afraid you are right. Unless he is one of those very few left, whom still look for career challenges, as he knows his salary will be good anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 89 and 90 tonight for the Special One in a 4-1 win over Athletico Madrid. That 2 goals for him in the last 6 La Liga matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Last game of the year and only 1 goal tonight for Messi in a 3-1 win at Valladolid so he finishes the year with 91. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellydog Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Nice to see this thread on Messi. I've been in BKK a little over a month after living in Buenos Aires most of the past seven years. I became a slobbering football fan in Argentina, follow Messi, the Argentine NT, the Argentine league, and football throughout most of Europe. Yo soy un Bostero grande. While in Buenos Aires I had consistent TV access to the EPL, La Liga and Italian football. As well as some access to football from Germany and France. The situation seems much different here, with the EPL overshadowing evrything else, both in the print media and also TV access. Is there a way to get more TV coverage of leagues outside of the UK ? Much thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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