Divorce - Wife Is After Foreign Assets.

[MegaRanter]

my ex is living in OZ with a new beau, her facebook just went from my surname to the old fella's.

I dont remember signing a divorce papers, as I not have been able to get hold of her in Bangkok these past 2 years or three.

Thai women must like marrying Aussies.

[marstons]

why get divorced, I would stay married and let her toil away trying to get a divorce, if she only generates peanuts sure she will give up, or as in my case found another sucker then begged for a 0 baht settlement to re-marry. married Australian says never again English as English drink to much!!! .

Edited March 21, 2013 by marstons

[spidermike007]

Unless you got a rock solid prenup your wife is entitled to half your shit. If you actually married her officially and not just a Thai ceremony then get yourself a good lawyer mate. Your marriage is legal and stands by the laws of marriage in your own country.

Not sure how sound this advice is. A legal Thai marriage is definitely NOT recognized in the US. It means nothing to the US authorities. May be the same with OZ law? Not sure. Check it out.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't think that's correct... A village marriage or a Buddhist ceremony is not a "legal" marriage for anything.

But a marriage registered with the Thai government (via the amphur office) is recognized as a legal marriage in Thailand and thus recognized by other countries as well.

Think about what you're saying. If that were true, a U.S. guy could be legally married to one woman in the U.S. and be legally marriage under Thai law to a different woman in Thailand. Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.

Edited March 22, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Mario2008]

Unless you got a rock solid prenup your wife is entitled to half your shit. If you actually married her officially and not just a Thai ceremony then get yourself a good lawyer mate. Your marriage is legal and stands by the laws of marriage in your own country.

Not sure how sound this advice is. A legal Thai marriage is definitely NOT recognized in the US. It means nothing to the US authorities. May be the same with OZ law? Not sure. Check it out.

That is totally incorrect. A legal Thai marriage (a wedding at the amphur) is recognised by the US as such, as many mebers can contest too. What is not recognised is a traditional marriage cermony, as that is not the legal way to get married in Thailand.

[spidermike007]

Unless you got a rock solid prenup your wife is entitled to half your shit. If you actually married her officially and not just a Thai ceremony then get yourself a good lawyer mate. Your marriage is legal and stands by the laws of marriage in your own country.

Not sure how sound this advice is. A legal Thai marriage is definitely NOT recognized in the US. It means nothing to the US authorities. May be the same with OZ law? Not sure. Check it out.

That is totally incorrect. A legal Thai marriage (a wedding at the amphur) is recognised by the US as such, as many mebers can contest too. What is not recognised is a traditional marriage cermony, as that is not the legal way to get married in Thailand.

Now, I wonder who is right. Spoke to the American embassy in Bangkok, and the State Department in Washington. They told me a legal marriage to a Thai woman here in Thailand will not help me one iota, when it comes to getting her a visa to visit the US. Not one iota. Was that bad info?

[Mario2008]

Yes.

Lots of US nationals are married to a Thai and bring their legal wife over to the US based on their marriage.

Is a marriage alone going to do it is another question. They will probably also want to see a genuine relationship.

[FDog]

Unless you got a rock solid prenup your wife is entitled to half your shit. If you actually married her officially and not just a Thai ceremony then get yourself a good lawyer mate. Your marriage is legal and stands by the laws of marriage in your own country.

Not sure how sound this advice is. A legal Thai marriage is definitely NOT recognized in the US. It means nothing to the US authorities. May be the same with OZ law? Not sure. Check it out.

That is totally incorrect. A legal Thai marriage (a wedding at the amphur) is recognised by the US as such, as many mebers can contest too. What is not recognised is a traditional marriage cermony, as that is not the legal way to get married in Thailand.

Now, I wonder who is right. Spoke to the American embassy in Bangkok, and the State Department in Washington. They told me a legal marriage to a Thai woman here in Thailand will not help me one iota, when it comes to getting her a visa to visit the US. Not one iota. Was that bad info?

You asked them the wrong question. So being married won't help them get a visa.

But ask them if you get divorced and she goes after your assets in the US, what is the answer.

Two completely different questions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Part of the issue being discussed here is the ability of a Thai wife to file for divorce in the husband's home country (or in the OP's case, just separation of property), even if neither party is living there at the time.

OZ may have its own peculiar rules on this, re the OP saying above that his OZ lawyer advised that his wife could file for separation of property in OZ without even being there.

But at least in the U.S., I checked about two different states that happen to be so-called community property states. And in both cases, according to the governing state law, at LEAST ONE of the two parties has to have their domicile there and/or been living there for some certain periods of time prior to filing for divorce in order to have standing in the court there.

If neither party is living in, for example, Texas or California, then the courts there won't accept a divorce petition from non-residents. In Texas, for example, at least one of the two parties has to have been living in the state for at least six months prior to the divorce filing and must have been living in the local county where the action is filed for at least the prior 90 days.

In the U.S., any division of marital community property is done as part of the divorce proceeding -- not in some separate or subsequent action. So if a couple's divorce is filed in Thailand, then the property separation would be handled here under Thai family law. And that would be the end of it.

At least in those kinds of areas of the U.S., that would seem to preclude the kind of problems the OP is facing -- assuming that both the husband and the wife are living in Thailand at the time things start heading for divorce.

Edited January 28, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Mario2008]

There is of course a diffirence bewteen filling for divorce and the division of property, as you indicate.

With a divorce judgement in hand the other spouse could seek execution of the division of property in another country. (All depending on the countries involved).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Right... I guess there are two scenarios...at least involving the U.S.

1. If either of the parties is actually living in a U.S. state, then they would be entitled to file for divorce in that state, and the division of property would be binding on assets there.

2. But if both parties were living in Thailand, I don't believe either would be eligible to file for divorce in the U.S. So they'd have to go through the divorce process here in Thailand. And then, if there were assets in the U.S. involved, one of the parties would have to retain a U.S. attorney to file a civil action in the U.S. seeking ownership of those assets (or enforcement of the Thai court judgment).

My guess is, that wouldn't be particularly easy or cheap for a Thai national who doesn't have long-term visa/travel access to the U.S., not to mention the legal fees typically charged by U.S. attorneys.

[Mario2008]

True, but some lawyers will take a case based on getting a certain percentage if they win and nothing if they lose the case.

[sam sen]

my sister married an aussie, lived in aus and divorced there. it was horrendously expensive and complicated and took over a year.

two things in your favour;

how good is your wife's english? understanding of legal matters/concepts? will she be able to communicate effectively to instruct her aussie lawyer?

does she have the cash to take on an aussie lawyer, she will need to convince them she's good for the invoices

[PeVee1st]

I have been down this road, so here is the rules in Australia, I am originally from near Sydney.

Thai legal marriages are (now) recognised by the Australian Government, but here is the "catch 22", to have a marriage legally recognised, both parties must present themselves to register the marriage.

So without you she has no chance, even if she goes to Australia, or has a lawyer.

Check the Australian Births, Deaths & Marriage website, they have a contact section where you can post your questions.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Mario2008]

I doubt that statement. You are legally married and that marriage is recognised by Australia.

What is possibly being referred to is that you can also register the marriage in Australia, so you can get proof of being married from the Australian registar. For that you might both need to be present.

But that has only effect on the proof that you are married. Another way to proof it is to have the marriage certificate certified by the THai foreign ministry and Oz embassy.

[PeVee1st]

To get a divorce in Australia, the marriage must be first registered in Australia. No registration means no marriage.

To register requires both parties to be present.

How can a divorce take place that is first not recognised?

This law change occurred recently, in the past Thai marriages were not recognised.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Mario2008]

I think you mean no registration means no divorce. The marriage itself is recognised and not in doubt.

You have a link i can check?

[PeVee1st]

Without registration, the marriage is not recognised!!!!

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Farma]

Things may have changed in the past 10 years but from personal experience the Australian Family Law Court had to rule that my Thai marriage was recognised in Australia before they would accept my divorce application.

Property settlement in Australia of Australian assets was done via Australian arbitration, separate from the actual divorce itself.

In Thailand, the divorce court will accept into evidence overseas assets if the overseas documents are translated, notorised and apostilised. However it is up to the courts to decide if they will accept the documents and include those assets in their ruling. The Thai divorce court has no authority over foreign assets even if they include them in their ruling.

Once again this is from personal experience.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I learned a new word here today that I'd never heard before, except in a religious context:

apostille

Additional authentication required for international acceptance of notarized documents including (but not limited to) adoption papers, affidavits, birth certificates, contracts, death certificates, deeds, diplomas and degrees, divorce decrees, incorporation papers, marriage certificates, patent applications, powers of attorney, and school transcripts. Instituted by 'The Hague Convention Abolishing The Requirements Of Legalization For Foreign Public Documents' of 1961, its objective is obviate "the requirements of diplomatic or consular legalization" and thus replace the cumbersome 'chain authentication method' that called for verification by multiple authorities. As prescribed by the convention, an apostille (French for, notation) is a preprinted small (minimum 9 x 9 centimeters) form having ten numbered items of information with blank spaces to be filled in by the designated authority in the issuing country. It is obligatory upon every signatory country to accept apostilles of the other signatory countries.

Dunno... just guessing... but is this the techical term for what the Thai MFA does when you need them to certify Thai documents for use in other countries???

[harrry]

Without registration, the marriage is not recognised!!!!

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Totally false

[Arkady]

It doesn't matter what Thai law says ....... Cos Oz won't give her a go if she didn't live there.

From what I understand tthe Oz Family Court can accept an application for a divorce/ division of assets as long as one party is an Australian citizen, permanent resident or intends to make Australia his or her permanent home. It doesn't matter if one of the parties is not Australian and has never lived there. You can get divorced in Thailand or elsewhere and, if you are Australian and have assets there, your ex can then file a case in the Family Court for a division of assets which is likely to be accepted, if the foreign court either made no order in respect of the Oz assets or made an order which is unenforceable. So, yes they should give her a shout, if she can get a lawyer in Oz.. She could even divorce you in Oz., if you are there and she has some one serve papers on you.

[harrry]

If you have never lived in Australia as man and wife, she will have no access to Australian courts.

A handy little rule I found out a few years ago.

FALSE

You can apply for a divorce in Australia if either you or your spouse:

n regard Australia as your home and intend to live in Australia indefinitely, or

n are an Australian citizen by birth, descent or by grant of Australian citizenship, or

n ordinarily live in Australia and have done so for 12 months immediately before filing for divorce.

You also need to satisfy the Court that you and your spouse have lived separately and apart for at least 12 months,

and there is no reasonable likelihood of resuming married life. It is po

http://www.familylawcourts.gov.au/wps/wcm/resources/file/ebd5a541ec81be8/Divorce_Kit_0313V1a.pdf

http://www.howtolaw.co/division-of-property-when-a-marriage-or-de-facto-relationship-ends-392064

Edited September 28, 2014 by harrry

[rhodie]

Divorce is different to separation of assets. Would love to see an update from the OP.

[Mosha]

OK 2002 I divorced in the UK, she had been there for 2 months, but essentially same position as the op. She was in Lam LuK Ka. Marriage was registered at the embassy. My solicitor never mentioned what she could claim. In fact when she did write to the solicitor, making demands, they were ignored. Now just guessing, but I think Aussie law and UK law is similar.

[rhodie]

Glad it worked out for you.

[Mosha]

Glad it worked out for you.

She doesn't know I'm a bus trip away 555

[Lukecan]

Liqiudate your assets in australia, turn them into physical gold, hide them somewhere really safe.

[zeichen]

I have no idea of the legal systems in Aus. but something sounds wrong to me that she can be entitled to anything that you possessed prior to your marriage in Thailand. I could see a total division of all assets in Aus. and Thailand being somewhat fair but since in Thailand all of the houses and businesses you bought for your wife could only be considered gifts, you have no legal claim on them. Why would Australian courts give a woman who has never lived in Australia equal assets when the Thailand government doesn't recognize foreign ownership of Thai properties?

I was told by the US consulate that unless we actually live in the US, I cannot register my marriage there. My wife would have no legal claim if I had anything there. Marriages overseas are of course recognized but the foreign spouse shouldn't have any legal rights until they actually live there as husband and wife.

Sorry for your dilemma OP. Best to play things close to your chest and try to keep any hurt feelings out of it until things are legally settled.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I was told by the US consulate that unless we actually live in the US, I cannot register my marriage there. My wife would have no legal claim if I had anything there.

Marriages overseas are of course recognized but the foreign spouse shouldn't have any legal rights until they actually live there as husband and wife.

I don't know what "register my marriage there" in the U.S. means.

As you noted thereafter, the U.S. recognizes marriages between a U.S. citizen and a foreign resident done legally outside the United States. An amphur marriage in Thailand would qualify as such a legal marriage.

Someone married in that manner who is living in Thailand with his Thai wife can take their Thai language marriage documents, have them translated to English, then have that translation certified by the MFA, then back to the U.S. Consulate in BKK to have them certified there.

And then, from what I've been told, the resulting English language, U.S. Consulate certified record of your marriage can be used in the U.S. as valid evidence of marriage, assuming you ended up in the U.S. at some point.

As for the Thai wife's legal rights, marriage in the U.S. is a states' issue. So typically, in order to file for divorce in the U.S., one or the other party has to become a resident of some state (usually meaning having lived there for a specified period immediately prior to any filing) in order to gain residence status in order to file for divorce in that state. Note: only ONE of the two parties, not both, has to be a qualified resident in order to file for divorce in a state.

From everything I've been told, a divorce granted at an amphur in Thailand, or by a Thai court, typically will not specifically deal with assets outside Thailand, or even if it does, doesn't really provide much of a means for being able to enforce that judgment in a country outside Thailand. Especially if the party trying to do the enforcing is living in Thailand and perhaps not physically able (due to visa issues and such) to go to the other country such as the U.S.

And then, of course, there are a lot of community property states in the U.S. where it's clearly established that property/assets held by either party prior to marriage is retained as individual assets in the event of a divorce, which is, the same legal principle that applies to property separation in divorce under Thai family law. A Thai court would never issue a divorce ruling/property division giving one spouse the pre-marital property of the other.

Edited October 4, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK