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Palm Oil Or Rubber

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Thanks everyone.

Some good informative posts and more homework for me to do. I was talking kg of rubber per day. My sister in law was bring in 18 per 21 mats per day for 7 rai. They said they were 1 kg mats. I will check on that when I go down next. The bother in law was bringing in 48 mats for 15 rai and said he didn't tap all the trees. I am not sure how much they fertilize and how often they tap. I thought it was 3 days then rest a day, but last time we were down they were talking about tapping one day in three which seemed light. Will find out more. The 3 kg per day per rai is a hard number and varies a bit. You are right Joe in the south there are a lot less tapping days and it may equal out over a year with Issan. There are ways of tapping in the rain, but people are not interested. Like the time off I think. They make good money as the land was not purchased, just use on some type of government deal.

Hi Timber

You're right about finding out the truth, i.e. what is the weight of the mats. It also brings up the question of how many trees per rai. We have now 100 trees per rai, although the "norm" is 528 trees per ha (16 rows x 33 trees) which is 84 trees per rai. Maybe we should just see what it brings :o

abslolutly right sanukjoe and timber!

there are too many factors in that productivity calculation. from fertilizers to pan-size, sheet-weight and number of trees per rai in different locations.

as i see, timbers family isnt about that far from the numbers i heard.

i try only to get about the right figures. but also in thailand when you ask someone about the yields. you are never geting the same answers.

so this discussion is for me very interesting and full of information. and any help i can get out from this huge knowledgbase i am going to use. but my offer stands, timber. when i am there in thailand, we can meet. aslo to check out that woodproject in prachinburi if you want of course. here is also a website where i get a lot of informations from. with movies about the how to do things:

http://rubberboard.org.in/

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also information from official webpages are always different:

With the extension of the balanced fertilizer technology on the island, almost 100% of rubber plantations have used compound fertilizers since 1999. As a result, the average latex yield has increased from 4,350 kg/ha in 1994 to 5,260 kg/ha in 1999

this information is from: http://www.ppi-ppic.org/ppiweb/swchina.nsf...gator=home+page

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Ramses

Some very interesting sites that you listed. The last few days in this forum have been really informative. I grew up in the development of an industry where the conditions were harsh and extremely variable. Would meet with a group of people and develop ideas and take them away and apply as personnel conditions dictated. This applied to both equipment and methods used. We had very good experienced contractors doing the work. We would get government policies and company needs given to us and we had to figure out how to do in a productive cost effective way. I had a contractor who couldn't read or write, but had good experience and common sense and came up with adaptations than were used by many others. A thought for the future. Would be nice to have a group of people involved in the rubber industry get together for a few days and trade minds to see how we can each improve their lot. I think we all act as individuals when we should be networking to increase the opportunities for all. We aren't competing with each other to my knowledge. So if I can give you some ideas and I get some in return I am ahead. As my father told me when you quit learning it was time to call it quits. We can come up with an agenda of stuff people are wanting to learn more about, meet a bit drink a bit and build future contacts.

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[The purpose of this study was to evaluate the response of rubber tree [Hevea brasiliensis (Willd. ex Adr. de Juss.) Müell. Arg.] to NPK fertilization in order, to improve fertilizer recommendation during the immature phase of this crop. It reports the results obtained from an experiment conducted on a podzolic soil at Matão, State of São Paulo, Brazil. It was a randomized block design in a fractionated factorial experiment 1/2(4 x 4 x 4) using 0, 40, 80 and 120 kg.ha-1 of N, P2O5 e K2O. Fertilizers were applied every year starting eight months after planting. During the experimental period evaluations of trunk girth 1.20 m above the budgrafting union was measured at each four months. The percentage of plants able for tapping and the period of immaturity were calculated from girth measurements. Soil and plant analysis were performed at several ages. Plant responses to potassium fertilizations were observed starting at 24 months of plant age. Linear NK interaction was frequently observed after 48 months of plant age. Considering the percentage of plants able for tapping, responses were linearly and statistically significant for K fertilization, while N responses were observed in some ocasions. The immaturity period of the crop was significantly affected only by K fertilizers. Besides of this observation, the analysis of the response surface showed that the immaturity period was very dependent on equilibrated relations among nutrients. Unbalanced relations of NPK can delay up to 15 months the beginning of tapping, considering differences between the best and worst treatments. In the absence of K fertilization there was an antagonistic effect of N and P. Potassium fertilization was essential to reduce the immaturity period.

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also information from official webpages are always different:

With the extension of the balanced fertilizer technology on the island, almost 100% of rubber plantations have used compound fertilizers since 1999. As a result, the average latex yield has increased from 4,350 kg/ha in 1994 to 5,260 kg/ha in 1999

this information is from: http://www.ppi-ppic.org/ppiweb/swchina.nsf...gator=home+page

These figures really throw me off my socks! It means 8-10 kg per tree/year if we think of 528 trees/ha!! I think we should gather and give as much info as we can to prevent wrong comparisons (apples and pears, as the Dutch say). I like annual yield numbers as they skip the variable cutting days. No matter how often you cut, if you use etephon or not, at the end you have a yield per ha per year.

Here is another website with info: www.irrdb.com

Joe

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Ramses

A thought for the future. Would be nice to have a group of people involved in the rubber industry get together for a few days and trade minds to see how we can each improve their lot. I think we all act as individuals when we should be networking to increase the opportunities for all. We aren't competing with each other to my knowledge. So if I can give you some ideas and I get some in return I am ahead. As my father told me when you quit learning it was time to call it quits. We can come up with an agenda of stuff people are wanting to learn more about, meet a bit drink a bit and build future contacts.

Great idea Timber! Another idea is to concentrate on all rubber farmers in Thaiand and share info and experiences. I myself live in Isaan, so a gettogether in the south would be a bit difficult, but sharing mutual ins and outs about rubber can only do us good. Maybe a Rubber Forum?

Joe

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Joe

Some good ideas. Hehehe sanuk. Scoocumchuk means wild water in Salish an Indian dialect of coastal British Columbia. A forum we should think that over. We have this alread, although a log of good information gets lost because it is too cumbersome to look at it. Issan has the farming forum. A question to ask the powers that be. An oil palm and rubber forum would sure make it easier to find information and have a lot less questions asked by the newbies.

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Joe

Some good ideas. Hehehe sanuk. Scoocumchuk means wild water in Salish an Indian dialect of coastal British Columbia. A forum we should think that over. We have this alread, although a log of good information gets lost because it is too cumbersome to look at it. Issan has the farming forum. A question to ask the powers that be. An oil palm and rubber forum would sure make it easier to find information and have a lot less questions asked by the newbies.

Timber, you're right about Isaan farming forum. We also have Farming in Thailand forum. But I find it time comsuming to switch to the different forums and then skip the "non-rubber" topics.

As we are with a nice number of interested people for rubber/palm oil I would suggest mod/adm give it a chance, the Rubber/Palm oil forum. That way we can concentrate all info and stay close on topic.

Joe

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Or just a timber forum, then we can discuss all forms of timber farming in it and keep it in one area, easier to locate all the info then also.

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Or just a timber forum, then we can discuss all forms of timber farming in it and keep it in one area, easier to locate all the info then also.

I totally agree Nawtilus!

Joe

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SunukJoe

You are right. How do we go about it?

I will write to RamdomChance who is the mod of Farming in Thailand and of Isaan forum. Let you know if any news.

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SunukJoe

You are right. How do we go about it?

I will write to RamdomChance who is the mod of Farming in Thailand and of Isaan forum. Let you know if any news.

Done

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Perhaps one thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is, there's land,

and then there's land.

Do never use the land prize only as your measuring stock !

There are several different types of land papers here.

If you think, wow ! that sounds cheap.

There are some things you should check out before making a purchase.

Thailand has lots of protected and "deed less" land, that's being used for agricultural purposes.

Farming such land can be a risky proposition, as the government can

take it away from you without any notice !

Usually, this is the kinda land you see, being sold at a third of the price

from land where you have the correct papers.

So what are the deeds you should look out for ?

Only buy land which has either the "nu-so-sam" or "ko-sor-no-ha" papers.

("ko-sor-no-ha" is agricultural co-operative land, that after ownership of 5 years can be converted into "nu-so-sam".)

With "nu-so-sam" you can borrow money on the land from any commercial bank, and it can't be taken away from you.

You can also do it with "ko-sor-no-ha", but it has to be from the "agricultural co-operative bank" only.

Stay away from "so-po-kor-nung".

It is land that's being rented from the government.

They can take it back anytime, and you can't borrow on it either.

Never buy land with only a contract from the seller !

(I've seen it happen)

I've been doing oil palms for 15 years and I don't like much of what I see.

The oil palm prices today, are exactly the same as they were 10 years ago !

10 years ago, things were cheaper and fertilizer about half the prize.

Most Thais seems oblivious to this fact, but what it actually means is that

oil palm prices has been gradually decreasing.

The only bright side is that land prices has virtually sky rocketed during this time.

If you have the cash, doing either palm or rubber is better than having it in the bank.

As a foreigner you can't own land, so make sure you trust your partner 100%

before going shopping.

When we bought our land some 15 years ago, we got the whole investment back within about 5 years.

Today I think it'll take between 20-30 years, at least if you're into palm.

Edited by friend2

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Thanks for the information Friend2. My brother in law has been running a rubber plantation for about 20 on booked land. You would tear your hair out if you knew what that was. How much per kg are you selling palm oil fruit for these days? Appreciate your answer. I think it was 1 - 1.5 baht per kg I think about a year ago.

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