Palm Oil Or Rubber

[Peter Perluka]

Peter

Some general comments. I'm sure someone can prove me wrong in all accounts. Rubber and Oil Palm can grow in a surprising variety of sites. I am an ex-forester from the West Coast of Canada and it amazes me where they will grow. The bottom line is good production of either fruit or rubber. Normally in the tropics the soils are not very deep and if you are growning crops they are fertile for a very short time. If you want to produce something like rubber or oil palm you have to fertilize to optimize production. I have listed some sites to look at that explain a lot for oil palm and rubber. As with anything the land is site specific and maybe you can get a government agricultural person to assess what you need.

50,000 babt per rai may not be a bad price depending on where it is. If there are producing rubber trees on it so much the better. Problem with rubber tree lumber is that the trees give very poor recovery as the spacing is tight and no pruning. Can always cut and grow oil palm. But that would mean a four year gap in production. Interesting state address by Bush saying that all the stops are out for ethanol production. My feel is that they will probably be buying ethanol to an extent as not much of the states is good for ethanol producition.

THANKS

I just had contact again with my gf, She said about the land near chonburi that it has already rubbertree's on it, the age of it is arround 5years young/old. And still for 50000baht for one rai.... Seems like a bargain to me especially coz the tree's are about to produce right? or wrong? Somebody trieing to nail me?

But looking at your reply it gives me the feeling it better to look for palm oil land then rubbertree land right?

ANyway, i am going to read your links now, (or later coz just started work) and will send a reply again after i understand all hihihi. Thanks alot for your concernce and advice, and perhaps if you know anybody with oilfarms and rubberfarms near chonburi, then maybe i can let my gf give them a call or visit.

Thanks again.

[timber]

Peter,

Those were some opinions. The price of rubber will go up for sure. If you have land about ready to produce rubber against oil palm which may take four or five years to get going. The main reason I like oil palm is that it is capable of producing so many products. If you were starting from scratch. The land near Chonburi is not that far from Bangkok so it might be good for producing something else also. Maybe your girlfriend could ask for some comparative prices in the area. It would be nice to get an opinion from a technician involved with agriculture. In North America it isn't that hard. I don't know about here. You just have to take all of the information you can ahold of and make a gut feel decision.

Return on investment.

[Peter Perluka]

Hi again,

now i am asked to make a diccision about what kind of land to buy. I can buy rubbertree's at the age of 5 years old for 50000baht per rai, and i can buy palmtree's for 35000baht a rai.......

Anyone knows about returns of these kind of crops?

regards

[timber]

Everyone

Here are some numbers that I got that are approximate and if you have some better ones please post. I got these from the in-laws who have some plantations. Some of the numbers seem high and some are low but good working numbers. In rubber the production depends on site, weather time of year etc. The production can vary 20 % on the same site from day to day. So the numbers may be better than I think based on the site.

One plantation is 16 years old and the other is 18. They get about 2 kiligrams per rai per day. They work 3 days on 1 day off to allow the trees to recover. One person can take care of about 20 k's per day including processing. My relatives do it all themselves on a small plantation one person does the gathering and processing. On a site a lot bigger two people take care of the production a man and his wife. In plantations where it is not owner operated they get a group from Issan to do the harvesting and processing. A family might take care of the whole thing and they ask for about 50 % of the action. This is a little higher on some areas.

The production figure can be improved through rain guards, fertilization, and some other practices.

Remember production depends on a lot of things "site specific", but are good working numbers.

I have some data on oil palm at home, but at work now.

[donx]

After reading this thread, I finally got my wife to tell me what kind of returns her family is getting from the rubber tree land that she bought last year in Phatthalung province. The land we (she) bought was 27 rai where 17 rai is producing rubber and 10 rai are now 4 years old. We paid 35000 baht/rai. One of my wife's cousins is doing the cutting and receives 60% of the profit. The other 40% is going to my wife's family. The rubber is cut and sold in liquid form to someone else that processes the rubber into sheets. The price our family is currently getting for the rubber liquid is about 50 baht/kg. My sister-in-law said that on average, rubber is cut 4 times a week and that our weekly take is 3000 baht. Our cousin gets 4500 baht/week. At 7500 baht/week, assuming 50 baht/kg, our trees are producing 150 kg/week or 37.5 kg/day. That means that right now the trees are producing about 2.21 kg/rai each day they are cut (37.5 / 17 rai = 2.21).

I don't know how "typical" these results are. For one thing, the land we bought is on hilly ground that is difficult to get to. This is one of the reasons we pay 60% to whomever cuts the rubber. Also I discovered that until recently, the trees were underproducing and my wife and her family suspect that the person who sold the land used gas to try to extract more rubber from the trees before selling the land. My wife says that it is common to insert a gas into rubber trees right before they are about to stop producing rubber to get the most out of them. These trees are not near the end of their life (exactly how old they are my wife doesn't know) so this practice shouldn't have been done and is something anyone that is looking to by land with mature rubber trees on it should be cautious about. Fortunately the tree are now producing better. I also know that my wife paid for fertilization, weeding, and some other treatment which she wasn't able to explain to me in English that has helped get the trees producing better. In addition to these factors, I have been told that rubber output varies from month to month. This may be the most productive time. I know that some months the trees cannot produce any rubber. I also know that the trees are not cut when it rains because the rain water will dilute the rubber. I think I read somewhere that an average yearly yeild per rai in Southern Thailand is somewhere between 150 and 250 kg/rai/year.

I hope others find this information useful.

[timber]

Donx

Thanks for the infor. Those are the type of comments that I was hoping to get. Having a network of practical information is quite useful. We were hoping to move south in a year or two, Would be nice to talk to people like your self and see about starting a co-op. Where i came from in Canada it is quite common so as to take advantage of selling and buying opportunities. More production more leverage. Considering natural variances your figures compare favorably to mine. I think they are good working figures. Rain in the south takes a lot of productive days out the the harvest. In Brazil they use rain guards so that they can harvest when it is raining. My wife wasn't too interested in it so I didn't pursue. On of the internet sources talked about using chemicals to make the tree produce more rubber during a period. Thins in out so better flow. I think it is temporay and means you have more downtime. I don't think they were using anything as harsh as gas. Thanks for the informations

[BOOMBOY]

Hello,

Is anyone farming rubber or Palm oil around Buriram ?, I was up there

at Christmas looking at land but found it really difficult to establish what

sort of yields people are getting. Are they likely to be similar to the yields

in the South ?.

Also what sort of price should you pay per rai for established rubber trees

say 7 years old. During my trip to issan it was difficult for me to get an

accurate idea, because everybody in the village I spoke to was a potential

land vendor and of course the inlaws were putting a positive spin on the

situation being potential beneficiaries if the land was purchased.

The reason I am looking at land in the area is because I want to give my

wifes family some sort of viable business so that they can support themselves

without having to come to us for handouts and also possible to generate a

little holiday / retirement income for ourselves in about 10-15 years.

My other question is does anyone in Issan use sustainable farming methods ?,

because I was a little concerned that the local answer to any agricultural problem

seems to be to throw ever increasing amounts of chemicals on the land.

I apologise if I am asking for too much information but as with a lot of things in

LOS the more I look into this the more confused I get.

Boomboy

[timber]

Boomboy,

The sites in Buriram will be quite a bit lower than that on the coast, unless you are on a mountain in a rainforest. production on a medium site down south would give some 2 kg or rubber per day per rai. Even this figure may change on the same site 30% from day to day. There aren't a lot of rubber producers that keep a spreadsheet on rubber production per day.

Prices in Chanburi sound like 35,000 to 50,000 per rai so sould be a lot less in Buriram. Check and see what government agencies there are and look for crop recommendations and site maps. A high site with flowers may be better than a low site with rubber. Just generalized comments.

[timber]

The US has put a priority on Bio-fuels which should see a lot of changes in the next few years in uses and adaptations. Should see a lot more uses for palm oil come out of this. The future looks good for palm oil. Doing some homework leads me to believe rubber is a better investment now.

Looking at the future is difficult, but with Thailand going more to bio-diesel and gasahol and the research happening in the States I wouldn't dig up my oil palm. Planting as in the past is a bit more of a guess.

A biodiesel powered Volkswagen Golf TDI is a leading participant in U.S. rally races this year. It is also a unique participant – rally cars are rarely diesel vehicles; RallyVW takes it a step further and is running their diesel racer on biodiesel.

[Ramses]

Hello everyone,

I actually bought 1800 young rubbertrees and going to plant them at the north of Udon Thani at the beginning of this raining season.

This time my wife and me were in Thailand some friend told us about a tree which is used by the perfume industry. The income must be amazing but you should take care of this plant very well. My problem now is, that I knew the name of this tree in Thai, but forgot it. So if anyone of you know it in English, I would be happy if you could write it to me, so I can do some more research in the net. The things I know are, that a Farm of the size of 40 Rai ist giving you a Revenue of 30.000.000 Baht after growin the trees 6 years. (Yes 30 Million Baht!!!!) And the Land still is yours after selling the Trees.

Please if anyone knows....let me know.

Hope for your Replies

Thanks!

[timber]

Sounds interesting. If you find out anything let us know. I will do some research with you. There was an article in the Bangkok Post a while back about something of that nature. I am an ex-professional forester so those things always interest me. If I find out anything will let you know.

My wife and her family have some resonable site land down south and I am sure it would grow anything.

Take care,

[sbk]

Could it be Ylang-Ylang? Called kra-danga in Thai (Cananga Odorata)

Cananga Odorata.

It is a shrubby tree that produces the most deliciously scented flowers widely used in the perfume industry.

[udon]

Pix

[timber]

Some information

This tall (60') tropical tree hails from the East Indies, although it is grown in many tropical countries all over the world. It is the source of ylang-ylang extract, which is a very penetrating smell. Used in soap, perfumery, aromatherapy. The 6-petalled flowers are difficult to see since they are a pale lime-green and tend to get overlooked. The green fruit is the shape of an acorn and, once ripe and purple, the seeds can be extracted. They look similar to passion-fruit seeds. The tree shape is interesting, the branches droop down and then swoop up at the ends.

If you want to become an expert

http://agroforestry.net/tti/Cananga-ylang-ylang.pdf

[Ramses]

Thanks for the responses!

But it is not the Ylang-Ylang. We have got some in our own garden.

It is a great smell.

The tree I mean, they are selling the wood (the trees core) to the perfume industry and not the flowers.

Any other ideas?

They told me it is very difficult to take care of this kind of tree. But for Thaipeople somethings are difficult that are easier for us Farang to do.

I asked my wife again, and she isnt sure about the name too. In Thai maybe "Mai ... hom" or something with "Mai chan gen". Really not sure anymore.

A danish friend of me is doing in rubber too. He told me he knows the tree, but cant remember the name anymore. Funny hu??

I know a German name of a kind of wood they use in the perfumery. It is "Sandelholz". Armani is using it in the "Armani Night"-fragrance. It dominates the smell of that perfume. I will try to do some research on this.

But I dont believe that it is this tree I am looking for.

Regards

[Ramses]

Ok, I found something about this sandel-wood. The discription comes very near to the wood I mean. It can bee the yellow sandelwood. The yellow one is described on a German page as very well smelling wood, used by perfume-industries. And very expensive! The latinum names are:

"Santalum album"," Santalaceen" and there is one more but only growin in the southsee territories "Santalum freysinetianum"

So timber, it is your ball. Play with it ;-)

Hope you find out something.

[timber]

Santalum album

n : parasitic tree of Indonesia and Malaysia having fragrant

close-grained yellowish heartwood with insect-repelling

properties and used, e.g., for making chests [syn: sandalwood

tree, true sandalwood, Santalum album]

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

Sandalwood \San"dal*wood\, n. [F. sandal, santal, fr. Ar.

[,c]andal, or Gr. sa`ntalon; both ultimately fr. Skr.

candana. Cf. Sanders.] (Bot.)

(a) The highly perfumed yellowish heartwood of an East Indian

and Polynesian tree (Santalum album), and of several

other trees of the same genus, as the Hawaiian Santalum

Freycinetianum and S. pyrularium, the Australian S.

latifolium, etc. The name is extended to several other

kinds of fragrant wood.

( Any tree of the genus Santalum, or a tree which yields

sandalwood.

© The red wood of a kind of buckthorn, used in Russia for

dyeing leather (Rhamnus Dahuricus).

False sandalwood, the fragrant wood of several trees not of

the genus Santalum, as Ximenia Americana, Myoporum

tenuifolium of Tahiti.

Red sandalwood, a heavy, dark red dyewood, being the

heartwood of two leguminous trees of India (Pterocarpus

santalinus, and Adenanthera pavonina); -- called also

red sanderswood, sanders or saunders, and

rubywood.

[Ramses]

Again me,

I think it is not sandalwood. I found on another page, that the typical sandalwood oil is produced only by trees of at least 25 years of age.

But they write that there are many kinds of sandalwood that is used to make perfumes.

So I feel not sure anymore.

hmmmm.....???

Edited March 9, 2006 by Ramses

[Ramses]

Contribution from Andrew Rado, Department of Conservation and Land Management, Kununurra, Western Australia.

Sandalwood has long been used by man and it plays an important role as a ceremonial burning material during religious rites of Hindus, Buddhists, Parsis and Moslems in South-east Asia. The high value of the wood and the oil has led to a steady decline of native sandalwood trees and increasing efforts to establish plantations. Work is being undertaken in the Ord River Irrigation Area (ORIA) to grow sandalwood under irrigated plantation conditions.

Sandalwood is the source of sandalwood oil, a high value oil used in perfumes, soaps and incenses. The wood itself is also prized for woodcarving. Some thirty species of sandalwood occur throughout Asia, Australia and the Pacific region; six species are native to Australia. One species, Santalum spicatum, is presently being harvested in the Goldfields region of Western Australia and sells for about $10 000 per tonne.

Santalum album, a native of Indonesia, is the most valuable species, with the wood containing about 7% oil. It is currently being harvested from natural stands in Indonesia and sells for $23 000 per tonne. Unfortunately, the resource is being rapidly depleted due to unsustainable harvesting. The perceived rotation length of S. album in Indonesia and the ORIA in northern Australia is 20 to 30 years which is much shorter than the 100 years for the native Australian species, Santalum spicatum.

[timber]

For the experts. Good information for the future. Never know

http://www.american.edu/TED/sandalwd.htm

[Ramses]

Also very interesting:

http://sres.anu.edu.au/associated/fpt/nwfp...ood/Sandal.html

[Ramses]

Another possibility: The translation from German is: Eaglewood or maybe "AGARWOOD"

The latin name is: Aquilaria sinensis

This tree produces the fragrant wood only if manually infected with a nondangerous mushroom. This comes together with the take care thing I have heard about. I found out about this wood at a page of the WWF.

They are helping Southamerican Indians to get an income with this asian tree.

The highest price you can get for the wood is for one kilogram up to 50.000 dollars. But this wood has to stay under the ground for some hundret years to become fermented. I dont know what price you can get for the manually planted and infected wood. And I also dont know how long they have to grow to produce enough heartwood. Dont forget they told me six year old trees wer harvested. So if anyone can deliver information? You are welcome.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Ramses

[Ramses]

Wow people, I think thats it:

http://www.therainforestproject.net/page6.htm

Fast growing!

[Ramses]

Also this one is very nice:

http://forestpathology.coafes.umn.edu/Agar...ld-research.htm

Also Thailand is shown!

Edited March 9, 2006 by Ramses

[timber]

That was a fun and educational thread. How to find a piece of wood in the gutter and build a house out of it.

[timber]

Another short article for information. AWhat is the treatment? I think they put a fungus onto the wound.

http://www.scents-of-earth.com/alag.html

Aloeswood is the resinous wood from the Aquilaria tree, an evergreen tree native to northern India, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Vietnam. It's scientific name is Aquilara Malaccensis Lam. or Aquilaria agallocha.

It is a very popular ingredient in Japanese incense and is often used in Traditional Chinese, Unanai, Ayurvedic, and Tibetan medicine.

The Aquilaria tree grows up to 40 meters high and 60 centimeters in diameter. It bears sweetly-scented, snow-white flowers. The trees frequently become infected with a parasite fungus or mold, Phialophora parasitica, and begin to produce an aromatic resin, in response to this attack. It is this precious resinous wood that is treasured around the world. Today the resin is commonly called Jinko, Aloeswood, Agarwood, and Oud.

The resin of a tree from a natural fungal attack and immune response is commonly known as agar #1. An inferior resin is created by the deliberate wounding of an aquilaria tree; leaving it more susceptible to a fungal attack by using a forced method. This is commonly called agar #2.

The fungus and decomposition process continue to generate a very rich and dark resin forming within the heartwood. The resin created as a natural immune response makes the most sacred oil on the planet. The wood is extremely rare and often very difficult to obtain, as well as being quite expensive. The best quality is Kyara, which comes in four types: Green, Iron, Purple, and Black.

There are many stories about aloeswood being buried under the ground for hundreds of years. This legend comes from an old Chinese book on incense, but today most aloeswood comes from infected trees that, although in the process of decaying and dying, are indeed still standing. However, sometimes the roots become infected with the fungus and these can be found underground.

[Ramses]

Jeah you are right,

I love the internet. I dont know how I lived and had to find out things by using phonecalls without the internet some years ago.

Your discription is perfect with the gutter. I went out with empty hands and came back with a full bag of informations.

The agarwood comes pretty near to the few points I heard of my Thai-friend, but as long as I didn`t see the trees I cant be sure.

[Ramses]

This site showsthe profits of Agarwood if you let this organisation take care of your farm. You can choos the product and the size of the farm. Then you have to do your investment and pay monthly or yearly expenses. After 6 years you will receive your profit of about 250 percent. If you manage to do your own farm, I guess it is very cheaper.

In my mind, I would not trust such a organization so easy. I have to see that farm first with its trees.

http://www.touchwood.co.th/touchwood_onlin...od.asp?home.asp

Best regards

[timber]

I would think that if you are looking at making some money investing in a rubber tree plantation paying the right price in the right area is as good as any.

[hansen]

about the tree i think it could be this on

http://board.dserver.org/w/webdoae/00002089.html it is in thai hope that is okay