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som interesting information.

Chemical to raise rubber yield

Our Bureau

Kochi, Nov. 24

Barath Agrotech has introduced Vitex, a product imported from Malaysia to prevent and cure dryness of the bark of rubber trees and to increase the yield. The company claimed that the application of Vitex would increase the production of latex by more than 50 per cent and is effectively used in countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand. Priced at Rs 2,889 per kg, the product cures dryness of tapping panel (groove). About one gram of Vitex is to be applied on a tree in 10 days for three months. Vitex being a two-in-one formula helps to reduce labour charges, transport charges and chemical charges by 30 to 50 per cent. The product is launched in Kerala by MRP Agro Chemicals through Barath Agrotech.

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som interesting information.

Chemical to raise rubber yield

Our Bureau

Kochi, Nov. 24

Barath Agrotech has introduced Vitex, a product imported from Malaysia to prevent and cure dryness of the bark of rubber trees and to increase the yield. The company claimed that the application of Vitex would increase the production of latex by more than 50 per cent and is effectively used in countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand. Priced at Rs 2,889 per kg, the product cures dryness of tapping panel (groove). About one gram of Vitex is to be applied on a tree in 10 days for three months. Vitex being a two-in-one formula helps to reduce labour charges, transport charges and chemical charges by 30 to 50 per cent. The product is launched in Kerala by MRP Agro Chemicals through Barath Agrotech.

I guess this is the same/or based on Etephon. If applied people cut only every 3 days, with the same yield. Principle is simple: it prevents that the latex flow dries up and stops. Must be great stuff.

Joe

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SunukJoe

You are right. How do we go about it?

I will write to RamdomChance who is the mod of Farming in Thailand and of Isaan forum. Let you know if any news.

Hi guys

I got an answer from RC about this. No chance on a separate forum for timber farming as it is not mainstream in the total Thaivisa vision.

However, RC proposed that we collect all items that are concerned and he will have them "pinned" in the Farming in Thailand forum. I think that's a good idea as it will be at least concentrated on one spot.

There is one problem: RC is not moderator of the Southern forum, so that mod should be asked separately to switch over our topics to the Farming in Thailand forum. RC will do the same from the Isaan forum and as he is also mod of Farming in Thailand he can overview it then.

Anyone want to approach the Southern forum mod?

Joe

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SanukJoe Have to think about that for a while. Get back to you next week. I kinda like haven't something in the south. I hope the overall thaivisas visionary group thinks a little about stratifying some forums as I think this subject comes up in a few cases where the valuable information gets lost in generalizatons. or too much information. Some sub forums where you click on farming and there is a forum on rubber trees with subsections under that. Thanks for pushing it Joe.

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SanukJoe Have to think about that for a while. Get back to you next week. I kinda like haven't something in the south. I hope the overall thaivisas visionary group thinks a little about stratifying some forums as I think this subject comes up in a few cases where the valuable information gets lost in generalizatons. or too much information. Some sub forums where you click on farming and there is a forum on rubber trees with subsections under that. Thanks for pushing it Joe.

Ok Timber, talk to you next year :D:D:D

We have to bear in mind that we are a small number of members compared to 38.000, but then, how many active members are there?

We make a living in Thailand, with or wothout thai wives/gf's, we have integrated into thai social life and we are very serious about what we're doing. I think timber farming might be a small interest group, but one with a high value. We don't talk marketing BS, we are real and serious.

Looking at TV, there is a sports forum AND a football forum, there is a thai food forum AND a western food forum, both examples of how mainstream is not always the same mainstream....

We keep on going guys, you ol' farmers.... :o

Joe

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Perhaps one thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is, there's land,

and then there's land.

Do never use the land prize only as your measuring stock !

There are several different types of land papers here.

If you think, wow ! that sounds cheap.

There are some things you should check out before making a purchase.

Thailand has lots of protected and "deed less" land, that's being used for agricultural purposes.

Farming such land can be a risky proposition, as the government can

take it away from you without any notice !

Usually, this is the kinda land you see, being sold at a third of the price

from land where you have the correct papers.

So what are the deeds you should look out for ?

Only buy land which has either the "nu-so-sam" or "ko-sor-no-ha" papers.

("ko-sor-no-ha" is agricultural co-operative land, that after ownership of 5 years can be converted into "nu-so-sam".)

With "nu-so-sam" you can borrow money on the land from any commercial bank, and it can't be taken away from you.

You can also do it with "ko-sor-no-ha", but it has to be from the "agricultural co-operative bank" only.

Stay away from "so-po-kor-nung".

It is land that's being rented from the government.

They can take it back anytime, and you can't borrow on it either.

Never buy land with only a contract from the seller !

(I've seen it happen)

I've been doing oil palms for 15 years and I don't like much of what I see.

The oil palm prices today, are exactly the same as they were 10 years ago !

10 years ago, things were cheaper and fertilizer about half the prize.

Most Thais seems oblivious to this fact, but what it actually means is that

oil palm prices has been gradually decreasing.

The only bright side is that land prices has virtually sky rocketed during this time.

If you have the cash, doing either palm or rubber is better than having it in the bank.

As a foreigner you can't own land, so make sure you trust your partner 100%

before going shopping.

When we bought our land some 15 years ago, we got the whole investment back within about 5 years.

Today I think it'll take between 20-30 years, at least if you're into palm.

Great post Friend2, very informative.

As Timber asked already, can you give us info about actual prices of palm oil? Would be good to know, and on top where do you sell it to and in what part of Thailand.

Questions, questions, we are soooo nosy... :o

Joe

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Right now the price is around 3 baht/kg.

I'm staying in South.

Palm here gets sold to the local "weight station" (Agricultural co-operative) that transports it to the factory for processing, and further refinement.

Talking about timber, for fun, I planted a few mahogany trees a few years back.

They grow very fast !

Not sure if that's a good thing or not, but they grow allright.

I got a few seedlings from a guy I know in the forrestry department, (King's project).

Thais don't know much about mahogany as it's an imported species.

Have no idea how many years it'll take before one can use the wood ?

Their about 60 cm in circumference now, planted about 5 years ago

(I think ?), 50 trees in all.

Grown by the "Plant and forget" technique :o

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SunukJoe

You are right. How do we go about it?

I will write to RamdomChance who is the mod of Farming in Thailand and of Isaan forum. Let you know if any news.

Hi guys

I got an answer from RC about this. No chance on a separate forum for timber farming as it is not mainstream in the total Thaivisa vision.

However, RC proposed that we collect all items that are concerned and he will have them "pinned" in the Farming in Thailand forum. I think that's a good idea as it will be at least concentrated on one spot.

There is one problem: RC is not moderator of the Southern forum, so that mod should be asked separately to switch over our topics to the Farming in Thailand forum. RC will do the same from the Isaan forum and as he is also mod of Farming in Thailand he can overview it then.

Anyone want to approach the Southern forum mod?

Joe

Got another pm from CR, he can take care of the posts in southern forum too, so he is willing to concentrate all info and posts re timber farming in the Farming in Thailand forum, though he thinks it's better to call it "Rubber" as that is more clear to people. Ok for me, we can put all related topics there, also concerning Eucalypt, Palm oil etcetera.

I answered RC that we have a "think" break till after New Year, so I promised him to come back to it then.

Joe

(thought of the abbreviation of Farming in Thailand: FIT, suddenly I realised how nice Timber in Thailand would have been :o:D:D )

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again some really interesting information for rubbertree friends:

After year number:-----------1-----2------3------4------5------6------7------8-----9

Rubber tree type: RRIT251 251.0 356.8 346.4 458.5 433.6 664.5 613.3 538.8 596.0------Average per Rai per Year: 473.2

Rubber tree type: RRIM600 151.7 213.8 263.0 334.4 294.9 402.7 343.0 318.4 385.0-----Average per Rai per Year: 300.8

Taping days per year:-------120----128---127---135---137---119---110---123---128----- Average per Rai per Year: 125.1

This figure shows the yield per Rai per Year of the rubbertreetypes RRIT251(experimental) and the RRIM600

at about 76trees per Rai.

Found at: http://www.thailandrubber.thaigov.net/index_home.php

This site is in Thai only, but my wife translated it for me. Ther are also some movies available on the right side of the page.

This movies describe the use of fertilizer for the trees from planting to the first tap.

They say again, that the right fertilizer is the most important for the trees. If you dont follow their informations, you wil have instad

of tears of rubbermilk, tears in your eyes. Pretty funny, it is like they are teaching children. Of course I know why ;-)

Edited by Ramses
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Right now the price is around 3 baht/kg.

I'm staying in South.

Palm here gets sold to the local "weight station" (Agricultural co-operative) that transports it to the factory for processing, and further refinement.

Talking about timber, for fun, I planted a few mahogany trees a few years back.

They grow very fast !

Not sure if that's a good thing or not, but they grow allright.

I got a few seedlings from a guy I know in the forrestry department, (King's project).

Thais don't know much about mahogany as it's an imported species.

Have no idea how many years it'll take before one can use the wood ?

Their about 60 cm in circumference now, planted about 5 years ago

(I think ?), 50 trees in all.

Grown by the "Plant and forget" technique :o

hi friend2,

here are some information about your harvest value for your fifty trees of mahagony with 18 years maturity.

You better take care, that noone is stealing your trees earlier.

50 trees will give you more than 125.000 dollars harvest-value. the total investment until majurity should be at about 10.000 dollars.

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again some really interesting information for rubbertree friends:

After year number:-----------1-----2------3------4------5------6------7------8-----9

Rubber tree type: RRIT251 251.0 356.8 346.4 458.5 433.6 664.5 613.3 538.8 596.0------Average per Rai per Year: 473.2

Rubber tree type: RRIM600 151.7 213.8 263.0 334.4 294.9 402.7 343.0 318.4 385.0-----Average per Rai per Year: 300.8

Taping days per year:-------120----128---127---135---137---119---110---123---128----- Average per Rai per Year: 125.1

This figure shows the yield per Rai per Year of the rubbertreetypes RRIT251(experimental) and the RRIM600

at about 76trees per Rai.

Found at: http://www.thailandrubber.thaigov.net/index_home.php

This site is in Thai only, but my wife translated it for me. Ther are also some movies available on the right side of the page.

This movies describe the use of fertilizer for the trees from planting to the first tap.

They say again, that the right fertilizer is the most important for the trees. If you dont follow their informations, you wil have instad

of tears of rubbermilk, tears in your eyes. Pretty funny, it is like they are teaching children. Of course I know why ;-)

Great post Ramses, very informative!

It doesn't say how many trees per rai but if we go from the average of 85 trees/rai it means the RRIM600 tree brings 3,5 kg/year, but the other one is very interesting, the RRIT251, that one brings 5,5 kg/year.

Brings me to the question: can one pick any quality of young tree or is it just a matter of buying what you can get?

Joe

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I wrote in the middle of the text, that there were about 76 trees/rai.

And usually, you can choose what u buy. At special places of course.

Sorry, sorry, sorry Ramses, stupid of me. I didn't see it probably because of the wonderful Christmas wine and dine, not a clear head yet :o .

It means it's even better news: the 600 brings 4 kg/year, the 251 even more than 6 kg.

Can you fill me in on "special places" to buy excellent trees?

Thanks

Joe

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hi friend2,

here are some information about your harvest value for your fifty trees of mahagony with 18 years maturity.

You better take care, that noone is stealing your trees earlier.

50 trees will give you more than 125.000 dollars harvest-value. the total investment until majurity should be at about 10.000 dollars.

:o uhh !

Are you sure ?

That sounds almost to good to be true.

The reason I planted them was, I had this small piece of uncleared land adjacent to my oil palms.

I thought, why not plant something different there after cleaning it up ?

It was just a coincidence I received these seedlings at that time, as I never asked specifically for them. (from my forrestry department friend)

So that's what I planted.

I planted them relatively close together (3 meters apart, rows 5 meters).

The forrestry guy said it's good to do that, as it will force the trees to grow upwards

without to much "branching".

Perhaps I need to cull out a few trees once they get bigger ?

I'm not to worried about people stealing the trees, most thais don't recognize them anyway.

Where did you get this info from (maybe you have some links) ?

Are you also growing mahogany ?

If what you are saying is true, i'll have a nice addition to my pension

when I get older :D

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I dont know under which conditions this company is growing mahagony. Maybe they are using fertilizers

which you dont. so I guess there is some difference between your harvest value and theirs. just to be very sure,

take it times 0.5 and there is still some nice money left.

here is the link: http://www.touchwood.co.th/touchwood_onlin...od.asp?home.asp

on the top is a button "products" there you press on mahagony and harvest returns.

I was looking at the 40 trees figures and added 25 percent.

good luck with your trees!!

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I wrote in the middle of the text, that there were about 76 trees/rai.

And usually, you can choose what u buy. At special places of course.

Sorry, sorry, sorry Ramses, stupid of me. I didn't see it probably because of the wonderful Christmas wine and dine, not a clear head yet :o .

It means it's even better news: the 600 brings 4 kg/year, the 251 even more than 6 kg.

Can you fill me in on "special places" to buy excellent trees?

Thanks

Joe

lol, this happens hicks....

Yes this figures look not as fantastic as the chinese that i posted before, but they are still great and more real , because this information is right from a government-page. I guess also at this places you can get this RRIT251. On that pages are many phonenumbers which you can connect to. As my wife told me there were some for Isaan too. But we didnt check it out on. Mybe if I have more time. But your family also can check it out. I am still here in Germany and waiting for my time to come to move to Thailand. (1,5 to 2 years I guess)

Also we called to my mother in Law yesterday and asked about the rubbertrees on our farm. It showed up that not all trees are doing

same well. To half of the trees they were giving fertilizer twice already, but the other half just once to now, because we have not enough money to send to Thaland right now. (To many taxes to pay here at the end of a year :-(

We planted about May as I wrote before. The half with two times fertilizer is now a bit more than 2 meters high. the other half is just somwhere at 1.30 meters. it is unbeleivable what fertilizer can do. my wife will go in february to check out our farm and put the second time fertilizer to the other half. and then it is also time for some extra fertilizer, 2kg per tree once a year to give.

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hello friend2,

looks like you are making a small fortune with your mahogany trees.

here are some real market prices for your trees:

For US Market per Cu.m

Mahogany 1C&B, KD 16%

Central American market US$1170-1200

Mahogany 1C&B, KD 16%

US market US$1230-1290

What I heard, a Rubbertree at sellingtime has got 1 to 1.5 Cubic meters

so a 18 year old Mahogany should be some more. lets say one tree about 3 Cubic meters

thats a 3 x 1200 x 50 = 180,000 dollars. If you have got access to the market.

Of course the Touchwoodpeople are making some money with your investment too.

Happy new year to everyone!!

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some very nice information can be found here.

it shows the advantage of partial irrigation in dry regions,

and explains that the yield can increase beyond 100 percent with it.

some other great tables are shown with intercropping results and different

types of rubbertrees.

http://rubberboard.org.in/articlesdisplay.asp

you have to klick on the link: Natural Rubber Research in India:Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow

Edited by Ramses
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I cant beleive what I am reading.

Rubberwood in 2004 was at 80 to 90 dollars per cubicmeter

right now it is between 175 to 200 dollars per cubicmeter

I just learnd on some pages, that high yield latex timber trees

can generat an avarage of 40 cubicmeters per Rai.

That would be a minimum of 7000 dollars per Rai about 250,000 baht per rai.

my friend told me somthing between 100,000 to 150,000 baht per rai.

the pricinformation can be found on this page: http://www.globalwood.org/market1/aaw20061201.htm

prices are from december 2006 scrolling down to indonesia and log prices

there are some prices for farmed mahogany too. it is only at about 600dollars per cubic meters.

looks like there is some difference between some mahogany trees.

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This Post is from Jai Dee in another Thread:

About 20 rubber knowledge centers will be set up in the North and Northeast

The Agriculture Department will set up 15-20 rubber knowledge centers in the north and northeastern regions to teach new rubber growers planting techniques.

Department deputy chief Sukhawat Chantharapannik (สุขวัฒน์ จันทรปรรณิก) said growers will learn the techniques from demonstration plantations and will exchange knowledge and experience on rubber production among themselves.

Mr. Sukhawat said the department expected the 145,000 new rubber farmers will earn at least 6,600 baht per rai compared to 3,720 baht per rai from cassava and 1,620 baht per rai from rice.

Rubber has already been grown in about 850,000 rai in the North and Northeast.

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Can't believe I only now see this thread . . .

Ok, after having finally brought our bio-diesel mini-refinery to production near Loei (and due to the rare cold-spell in Isaan we are taking a break . . . :o ) the next project is rubber.

We have been researching this for about one and a half years, I've been to my brother-in-law's plantation in Sarawak several times and spent time with the Malaysian Rubber Board pencilnecks and the time is about right for our product to come to market in about 2 months or so . . .

I don't want to go into too much detail, suffice it to say that yields incrase by roughly 2-3 times for more mature, 10-15 years old, trees and double for younger ones.

Rubber prices will only increase in the medium to long term, so this is the agro-business to be in - - - the government having stuffed up bio-fuel planning right royally.

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I am new to this board. All great discussion and information.

I am living at Suratthani. We are doing both oil palm and rubber plantation.

For the whole year 2006, the yield for our oil palm is approximately around 4.8 tons per rai per year which return to profit around 10,000 bath per rai per year (already exclude all expense). I think it is pretty good return. I don't have hard info about our rubber just yet.

However, I would like to simply compare with the yield from rubber plantation.

Assuming we got about 300 kg per rai per year with average price around 70. We should have the revenue about 300*70 = 21,000 * 0.6 (60%) = 12,600 bath per rai per year. This doesn't exclude fertilization expense and other expenses just yet.

So, I think it 's pretty competitive comparison. The best is to do both IMO.

Edited by tugsinav
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I am new to this board. All great discussion and information.

I am living at Suratthani. We are doing both oil palm and rubber plantation.

For the whole year 2006, the yield for our oil palm is approximately around 4.8 tons per rai per year which return to profit around 10,000 bath per rai per year (already exclude all expense). I think it is pretty good return. I don't have hard info about our rubber just yet.

However, I would like to simply compare with the yield from rubber plantation.

Assuming we got about 300 kg per rai per year with average price around 70. We should have the revenue about 300*70 = 21,000 * 0.6 (60%) = 12,600 bath per rai per year. This doesn't exclude fertilization expense and other expenses just yet.

So, I think it 's pretty competitive comparison. The best is to do both IMO.

Hi, welcome here and thanks for the info you supplied.

I have a small question concerning palm oil. You went from a 40% part of the yield in rubber, due to cutting labour, correct. What would you estimate being the labour in palm oil? Is it more/less time consuming, work every day?

Thanks for info

Joe

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I am new to this board. All great discussion and information.

I am living at Suratthani. We are doing both oil palm and rubber plantation.

For the whole year 2006, the yield for our oil palm is approximately around 4.8 tons per rai per year which return to profit around 10,000 bath per rai per year (already exclude all expense). I think it is pretty good return. I don't have hard info about our rubber just yet.

However, I would like to simply compare with the yield from rubber plantation.

Assuming we got about 300 kg per rai per year with average price around 70. We should have the revenue about 300*70 = 21,000 * 0.6 (60%) = 12,600 bath per rai per year. This doesn't exclude fertilization expense and other expenses just yet.

So, I think it 's pretty competitive comparison. The best is to do both IMO.

Hi, welcome here and thanks for the info you supplied.

I have a small question concerning palm oil. You went from a 40% part of the yield in rubber, due to cutting labour, correct. What would you estimate being the labour in palm oil? Is it more/less time consuming, work every day?

Thanks for info

Joe

Hi Joe,

Yes, 40% is the labour cost for the most part of our area (50% for some steep area). For the palm oil, it depends on how high is the palm tree. For the tree less than 15 year old, the labor cost is about 0.35-0.4 bath/kg (about 10% of revenue). They are always working during the day time from 8am to 5pm everyday if palms are available to cut.

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I am new to this board. All great discussion and information.

I am living at Suratthani. We are doing both oil palm and rubber plantation.

For the whole year 2006, the yield for our oil palm is approximately around 4.8 tons per rai per year which return to profit around 10,000 bath per rai per year (already exclude all expense). I think it is pretty good return. I don't have hard info about our rubber just yet.

However, I would like to simply compare with the yield from rubber plantation.

Assuming we got about 300 kg per rai per year with average price around 70. We should have the revenue about 300*70 = 21,000 * 0.6 (60%) = 12,600 bath per rai per year. This doesn't exclude fertilization expense and other expenses just yet.

So, I think it 's pretty competitive comparison. The best is to do both IMO.

Hi, welcome here and thanks for the info you supplied.

I have a small question concerning palm oil. You went from a 40% part of the yield in rubber, due to cutting labour, correct. What would you estimate being the labour in palm oil? Is it more/less time consuming, work every day?

Thanks for info

Joe

Hi Joe,

Yes, 40% is the labour cost for the most part of our area (50% for some steep area). For the palm oil, it depends on how high is the palm tree. For the tree less than 15 year old, the labor cost is about 0.35-0.4 bath/kg (about 10% of revenue). They are always working during the day time from 8am to 5pm everyday if palms are available to cut.

Thanks mate.

Could you give us a rough idea of the selling price of palm oil now? Only if you want, it's no must.

I ask because I think labour in my area (Isaan) will be cheaper than in the south, so I might come out with a higher return to profit.

Just for your info: I have no trees at all now :o but will start soon. I'm still doubting between rubber and palm oil. I'm a bit disappointed by the figures of 250 kg rubber per rai per year as given by the ministry. That would mean by a price of 60 baht and 60%: 250 x 60 x 0.6 = 9000 baht per rai, excl. fertilizer etcetera.

Interesting to hear your input here.

Thanks

Joe

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No problem Joe, the price of palm oil varies between 2.5 to 3 bath/kg depending on many factors (similar to rubber price), but it 's more stable than rubber price. However, I am not sure about planting palm tree on Isaan area cuz palm tree kindda like water (I think you need more research on this, or some experts on your area might have some techniques). Another thing is to yield 4.8 tons per rai per year requires intensive maintenance and enough fertilization.

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