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Phuket Opinion: Corruption And The Duality Of Man


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So what does all of this ranting have to do with corruption ?

It's the way things are and always have been. People accept it or they moan about it. That's ranting about corruption on a forum in a nutshell.

Not it hasn't. Those of us that have been here 10+ years like steelpulse, lik, stevenl and many others realize how much worse it has gotten. You obviously haven't lived/been visiting here for very long. These comments clearly show that because you don't personally see the problem (or possibly you enjoy the benefits of it) you don't believe it exists.

12 years ago I used to holiday for 3-6 months per year. For the umpteenth time I accept they exist, they just don't bother me. If they did I wouldn't love Phuket so much and would "holiday" somewhere else.

If things are getting worse that is perfect proof that whining on a forum doesn't change anything as you constantly imply it does.

Back to my questions. What evidence is there to say tourism won't be booming in ten years? And whining about the way things are on forums serves what purpose? You agree things are getting worse so what exactly do you achieve?

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I know you don't understand what sustainable tourism means because you don't understand that practically every other article in the news relates to it. Transport problems, pollution,overbuilding, scams, traffic, etc etc.

jeez man let it go. I don't think traffic, building, pollution, scams etc etc are affecting tourism and I don't think it ever will. I know what sustainable tourism is <deleted>, I just don't agree with you. Get used to it.

PS. Using stevenl as an example is a poor choice. He never whines and moans like a baby on here. He remains positive and logical despite the amount of time he's been here and running a business. You should give it a go some time.

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If you must, you write about it again, and again, and again if you need to. You write your embassies, you write your local officials, your write the local and national media as many of us have. It's called civic duty. Expats and tourist voices are heard, as this article shows, and when we speak in chorus inevitably people listen.

So you are saying you write about it again and again and again. You write to your embassies and local officials and you write to national media as you say you have done before. It's called civic duty and your voices are heard.

Yet in the very same thread you say:

Not it hasn't. Those of us that have been here 10+ years like steelpulse, lik, stevenl and many others realize how much worse it has gotten.

So which is it? Are your voices being heard or are things getting worse. Can it be both? Sounds like you're fighting a losing battle to me mate. Ten out of ten for effort though. thumbsup.gif

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If you must, you write about it again, and again, and again if you need to. You write your embassies, you write your local officials, your write the local and national media as many of us have. It's called civic duty. Expats and tourist voices are heard, as this article shows, and when we speak in chorus inevitably people listen.

So you are saying you write about it again and again and again. You write to your embassies and local officials and you write to national media as you say you have done before. It's called civic duty and your voices are heard.

Yet in the very same thread you say:

Not it hasn't. Those of us that have been here 10+ years like steelpulse, lik, stevenl and many others realize how much worse it has gotten.

So which is it? Are your voices being heard or are things getting worse. Can it be both? Sounds like you're fighting a losing battle to me mate. Ten out of ten for effort though. thumbsup.gif

Yes we are fighting a losing battle, no doubt about that. But at least we speak up.

So which is the nobler cause? Our attempt to help make the truth of the matter known or your just as vehement attempts to silence us??

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Yes we are fighting a losing battle, no doubt about that. But at least we speak up.

So which is the nobler cause? Our attempt to help make the truth of the matter known or your just as vehement attempts to silence us??

At last some honesty. Finally admitting that moaning on forums DOES NOT change things. So why be so bemused when I say that accepting things the way they are is far more practical.

PS You wete telling fibs earlier. I found the post where you accused some body of having inlaws in the business and I happen to know 100% that he never ever admitted to it being true. You also accused him of passing on information to them which may hurt your cause. This obsession of yours has gone on way to long IMO especially as you admit you are achieving nothing and never will.

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Yes we are fighting a losing battle, no doubt about that. But at least we speak up.

So which is the nobler cause? Our attempt to help make the truth of the matter known or your just as vehement attempts to silence us??

At last some honesty. Finally admitting that moaning on forums DOES NOT change things. So why be so bemused when I say that accepting things the way they are is far more practical.

PS You wete telling fibs earlier. I found the post where you accused some body of having inlaws in the business and I happen to know 100% that he never ever admitted to it being true. You also accused him of passing on information to them which may hurt your cause. This obsession of yours has gone on way to long IMO especially as you admit you are achieving nothing and never will.

Wow your reading comprehension and memory sucks. You spin words like Bill O'Rilley. Yeah and after I accused them they admitted it. I really can't do this if you are going to be putting words in my mouth. I never said nothing was being achieved, and I never said nothing would ever change. Small accomplishments have happened. People that care about Phuket will continue to do the right thing and change will happen eventually, if a little at a time.

You direct the discussion down the this same path every time. It's a banal argument. It defies logic why someone would take such a hard stance against clearly a good thing in the face of undeniable evidence and consensus.

And if you cannot clearly understand what is said to you and reply to it appropriately, I cannot debate you. When you equate "we are fighting a losing battle" to "Finally admitting that moaning on forums DOES NOT change things" and "you admit you are achieving nothing and never will." you are revealing that you either have no understanding of the English language or you simply live in a different world than the rest of us. Either way, I am going to continue to comment on stories like this and you keep on trying to stop me. smile.png

PS: The only way you could think you know that they didn't admit it is if you are him.

Edited by NomadJoe
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So what does all of this ranting have to do with corruption ?

Nothing. HongKongPhoey likes to shift the argument to why people shouldn't bother to express their concerns over the direction Phuket is going, and should just law down and accept it. I don't understand why he has to make a campaign out of trying to convince everyone to not care. He has every right to lay down, keep quiet, not care, and take it all he wants. I sure wish he would exercise that right.

.

Edited by LivinginKata
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Oh, and Iceman, I presume you are responding to me, because you do that all the time. Don't bother though, you're on my ignorelist so I can't see your posts anymore. And I must say, ever since you're on that list I am a much happier poster here tongue.png .

Please point me to this feature. lol

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Law-abiding people will be still targeted for their vulnerability alone.

If someone is not strong enough to tell the corrupt bastard to F&^% off, I suggest investing in some CCTV equipment, and make sure to tell them everything they say and do is being recorded on video.

The last thing these official "thugs" want to do is appear in front of a Thai judge with some CCTV video as evidence.

This will most defiantly keep them away, well at least is has in my case over the past couple of years.

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Yeah and after I accused them they admitted it.

PS: The only way you could think you know that they didn't admit it is if you are him.

It's irrelevant how I know I can just promise you 100% that I know. One of the people you accused of spying for his in-laws never admitted any such thing because it wasn't true. It was nothing but paranoid delusion on your part. I'm trying not to talk about the T T's as 'LIK' posted that we shouldn't go down that road and should stick to the topic, otherwise I would show you all the ridiculous post you made several years ago and then we could discuss how exactly you think you've made a difference.

Either way, I am going to continue to comment on stories like this and you keep on trying to stop me. smile.png

I have no interest in trying to stop you. You beat your dead horse about how bad Phuket is and how we need to stand up and make things change, and I beat mine about how I think it's fine just as it is. It's the exact same difference.

Nothing. HongKongPhoey likes to shift the argument to why people shouldn't bother to express their concerns over the direction Phuket is going, and should just law down and accept it. I don't understand why he has to make a campaign out of trying to convince everyone to not care. He has every right to lay down, keep quiet, not care, and take it all he wants. I sure wish he would exercise that right.

Shift the argument?? That was the argument. Did you even read the OP or just get so excited that there was another thread you could talk about how bad Phuket was and how you were going to stand up and be counted and make a difference, that you just jumped straight in. Here's a recap for you:

"Cynics tend to portray official corruption as an everyday fact of life on the island. The reality, however, is that very few law-abiding people suffer at the hands of corrupt officials on a regular basis. The average resident is only confronted by graft at certain critical junctures, but this is often enough to reinforce the impression that official corruption is more widespread than it actually is. The sad result is that many honest, well-intentioned officials are also assumed to be on the take."

I like the bit when it says "very few law abiding citizens suffer at the hands of corrupt officials". So it's just me shifting the argument is it? Or perhaps the bloke who wrote that for the PG has a tuk tuk driver for a father in law as well. cheesy.gif

Edited by LivinginKata
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Your suggestion then is to lay down and accept things as they are? How can anyone in their right mind suggest that?

Because I love the way things are. The only laying down I do is on the beach. thumbsup.gif

Your posts clearly show you do not know what it means. You asked earlier when will you see signs of this unsustainable tourism. lol You haven't got a clue mate. Go study up and then come back after you have got one.

"Sustainable tourism is tourism attempting to make as low impact on the environment and local culture as possible, while helping to generate future employment for local people. The aim of sustainable tourism is to ensure that development brings a positive experience for local people, tourism companies and the tourists themselves. Sustainable tourism is not the same as ecotourism."

Like I said, to what are they referring when they say that tourism here is unsustainable. I don't agree and and don't see anything when I'm out and about that makes me change my mind. What exactly about that doesn't make sense to you and makes you think I don't understand what it means. blink.png

" brings a positive experience for local people, tourism companies and the tourists themselves" - name one "positive" thing that has been done for tourist and tourism here in recent time????

I asked you this question a while ago and you did not reply.

A tourist who arrives on Phuket, for the first time, is introduced to corruption the moment they walk out the airport door and is hounded by the taxi cartel and their ridiculous prices. Amazing how a flight from Kuala Lumpur or Singapore can be cheaper than an airport taxi to Patong. It's a disgrace.

TAT would like to think they are targeting "high end tourist" here - what they really mean is "easily ripped off tourist." How long do you think that target market will last????

Edited by NamKangMan
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Law-abiding people will be still targeted for their vulnerability alone.

If someone is not strong enough to tell the corrupt bastard to F&^% off, I suggest investing in some CCTV equipment, and make sure to tell them everything they say and do is being recorded on video.

The last thing these official "thugs" want to do is appear in front of a Thai judge with some CCTV video as evidence.

This will most defiantly keep them away, well at least is has in my case over the past couple of years.

"Law-abiding people" are still paying the price of corruption here. That's how bad it is here. Not Thailand, in general, Phuket. You don't have to be approached and a payment/bribe demanded from you to be a victim of corruption. Remember the example I gave of buying a beer in a bar - some of the cost of that beer is for "tea money" every month. The owner has to pay it and passes this cost onto customers through the cost of the beer in his bar. That makes us ALL victims of corruption here.

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@ HKP

My post on the BIS was sarcastic. I was taking the piss. I stated this in a later post. Of course I knew there were several International Schools here, including the BIS - but fully admit that is as far as my knowledge on them goes, their location, that's it. In fact, I wouldn't know where they all are located, but I do know where the BIS is.

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Yes we are fighting a losing battle, no doubt about that. But at least we speak up.

So which is the nobler cause? Our attempt to help make the truth of the matter known or your just as vehement attempts to silence us??

At last some honesty. Finally admitting that moaning on forums DOES NOT change things. So why be so bemused when I say that accepting things the way they are is far more practical.

PS You wete telling fibs earlier. I found the post where you accused some body of having inlaws in the business and I happen to know 100% that he never ever admitted to it being true. You also accused him of passing on information to them which may hurt your cause. This obsession of yours has gone on way to long IMO especially as you admit you are achieving nothing and never will.

Some time ago, several people died, mysteriously, in The Down Town Inn in Chiang Mai. This hotel was owned by the former mayor of Chiang Mai. The spin put on these deaths was, it was all just a "co-incidence." It was expected that farang would accept this explanation. If it wasn't for the intense media coverage, website/internet information, word of mouth etc etc keeping pressure on the authorities, it would have all gone away, possibly with more deaths occurring.

As it turns out, due to tourists, basically, boycotting the hotel, it became unprofitable and I believe it has since been demolished.

An example for Phuket is, if we can save one person for being scammed on a jet-ski, for example, that's one step closer to having them boycotted, thus ending their criminal enterprise.

So, what you call "moaning" - can be in fact passing on information to possible future victims in order to inform them on how to avoid becoming a victim which then minimises the amount of money corruption makes here.

You ask what can be done about it, or what have I done about it? Once again, do you remember this thread?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/335364-comprehensive-list-of-scams-in-phuketthailand/

Over 20,000 views. I'm sure that thread may have saved a few readers some grief. If it saved just one reader from being scammed, that's great. I learnt a few things to keep an eye out for myself.

As I type this post, there is a grieving Canadian family after their daughters died under suspicious circumstances on Phi Phi last week. Should it be all just put down to their bad luck? It's not like they were scammed for a non-existant scratch on a motorbike - they are dead. We all know Thai authorities will do anything to protect the image of the tourism industry here, so, not properly investigating their deaths, not enforcing accountability and seeking justice for the family and then implementing policy to ensure it does not happen again - is that not the upper level of corruption for the almighty baht????

Corruption on Phuket is killing people, literally, particularly evident in the terrible road death statistics.

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So what does all of this ranting have to do with corruption ?

It's the way things are and always have been. People accept it or they moan about it. That's ranting about corruption on a forum in a nutshell.

The amount of corruption here 10 years ago was nothing on the amount that is here now and I'm sure will be nothing on what it will be in 10 years time here.

Phuket has already lost a lost of expats and tourist because of "what it has become." How many more will it lose as it keeps heading in the direction it is?

Personally, I have several friends who were die hard Phuket expats that have moved away. As the 80's retiree expats pass away, and the new retirees chose to live elsewhere in SE Asia or Thailand, and they keep building more and more apartments, houses and condos here - you do the math - how is that sustainable business in the property sector here, just to name one industry?

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When you put customers on a seangteaw to go diving you suffer at the hands of corrupt police which charge a fee for dive trucks that pass though Chalong circle and the "extras" the people running the pier charge the shops for access.

Simply not true. Unless you're using a songteaw with white/green plates of course, which nearly none of them have. All legal transport is allowed to pass Chalong circle uninterrupted. Do things legally and you have nothing to worry about. But as soon as you start acting illegally you're on a very slippery slope. And at the pier all fees are known and completely legal.

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Oh, and Iceman, I presume you are responding to me, because you do that all the time. Don't bother though, you're on my ignorelist so I can't see your posts anymore. And I must say, ever since you're on that list I am a much happier poster here tongue.png .

Please point me to this feature. lol

Click on your name at the top, go to 'manage ignore prefs'.

Oh, HKP, sorry, you did not make it to my ignore list, which consist of only one poster at the moment. I presume he is honored by that :)

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" brings a positive experience for local people, tourism companies and the tourists themselves" - name one "positive" thing that has been done for tourist and tourism here in recent time????

I asked you this question a while ago and you did not reply.

A tourist who arrives on Phuket, for the first time, is introduced to corruption the moment they walk out the airport door and is hounded by the taxi cartel and their ridiculous prices. Amazing how a flight from Kuala Lumpur or Singapore can be cheaper than an airport taxi to Patong. It's a disgrace.

TAT would like to think they are targeting "high end tourist" here - what they really mean is "easily ripped off tourist." How long do you think that target market will last????

Coming to Phuket, having the holiday of your life, then going home and start saving to come back again next year. That's a pretty positive experience for tourists if you ask me. The vast majority of tourists have a blast on holiday here, corruption and scams never enter their minds once, and they love the attitude of the locals, they love that it's still as cheap as chips, they love the laid back attitude, the food, the jet skis, banana boat rides, the whole shebang.

The question I asked way back which caused 'LIK' to wrongly insinuate that I was denying that corruption existed, 'Nomad Joe' that I was twisting the argument to my agenda, when clearly he hadn't even read the OP because the OP was saying the same as me so I hadn't twisted anything, and then accuse me of not knowing what the word sustainable meant 34 times was this: What evidence is there to show that tourism is going to suffer in the near future? Are the numbers coming through the airport down? Are a record number of businesses going tits up? Or is everything plodding along exactly as it was 5 years ago when umpteen people used to come on this forum and say that tourism would be dead in a couple of years.

Things sort themselves out. If tourism was to reduce by 50% in the next 5 years then Phuket would have to change. Prices would have to come down, businesses would have to close, local workers would move on and Phuket would be different.

Whatever Thai people, corrupt ones and other wise, do to Phuket is their business and they are going to do it no matter how many deluded people think they can make a difference. Phuket is on a journey from the sleepy little fishing village with no road connecting Patong to Phuket Town only a track through the mountain to where it is today. It will continue on that journey until it is swallowed by the sea. Maybe part of that journey is for tourists to stop coming and Thais having to learn to do things differently and start again. Who knows, who cares, I enjoyed it 100% how it was 10 years ago and I enjoy it 100% how it is now, my experiences on Phuket haven't changed one bit and I believe the average tourist feels the same.

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When you put customers on a seangteaw to go diving you suffer at the hands of corrupt police which charge a fee for dive trucks that pass though Chalong circle and the "extras" the people running the pier charge the shops for access.

Simply not true. Unless you're using a songteaw with white/green plates of course, which nearly none of them have. All legal transport is allowed to pass Chalong circle uninterrupted. Do things legally and you have nothing to worry about. But as soon as you start acting illegally you're on a very slippery slope. And at the pier all fees are known and completely legal.

@ stevenl I seem to remember a few years ago one of the Safari companies had a problem with Chalong police and all their land rovers were stopped/fines demanded. Local rumour was that the (then) new police chief was not getting enough kick-back. i wondering if you know whether these vehicles were legal or not ?.

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Remember the example I gave of buying a beer in a bar - some of the cost of that beer is for "tea money" every month. The owner has to pay it and passes this cost onto customers through the cost of the beer in his bar. That makes us ALL victims of corruption here.

Tourists NEVER think like that. They see 50 baht for a beer that would cost 300 back home and think "Happy Days".

Speak for yourself. I'm not a victim of anything on Phuket. I'm happy to pay that price for a beer no matter how the cost has been factored. You can say that corruption affects the price of a beer but you don't get the right to decide whether I'm a victim or not. Do you really think a beer would be a lot cheaper if things were done differently? It's just like the 10% service charge argument. The cost is the cost, It's either good value or it's not, how they got to it, and who lined whose pocket is irrelevant.

I AM NOT A VICTIM OF CORRUPTION!! and nor are any of the millions of tourists that flood through the airport.

@ HKP

My post on the BIS was sarcastic. I was taking the piss. I stated this in a later post. Of course I knew there were several International Schools here, including the BIS - but fully admit that is as far as my knowledge on them goes, their location, that's it. In fact, I wouldn't know where they all are located, but I do know where the BIS is.

Anybody who reads that post and reads the context of the thread knows 100% there wasn't a hint of sarcasm. You made a simple statement and then wished you hadn't. If you can't admit that then fine, the two quotes are there for people to read and decide whether you tell fibs or not.

As it turns out, due to tourists, basically, boycotting the hotel, it became unprofitable and I believe it has since been demolished.

An example for Phuket is, if we can save one person for being scammed on a jet-ski, for example, that's one step closer to having them boycotted, thus ending their criminal enterprise.

Great, that's how it works. The hotel messed up and now it's gone. If Phuket is so bad then people will stop coming and people will go out of business or change the things that people aren't liking so they come back again. At the moment I don't see any signs of that happening, but when it does so be it. Things often need to get worse before they get better, all part of the journey, try to enjoy it and go with the flow.

The problem is, every day probably 200 people get on a jet ski in Phuket and get off with a big grin on their face. They don't want to be saved by 'NKM' the super hero, they don't want jet skis to be boycotted, they use them and they enjoy them. If you want to help people tell them the truth. If you use a jet ski there is a one in 5000 chance you will be a victim of a scam, and then let them decide if they want to take the chance or not.

TOURISTS DON'T WANT YOU TO GET RID OF JET SKIS, THEY LOVE THEM!

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When you put customers on a seangteaw to go diving you suffer at the hands of corrupt police which charge a fee for dive trucks that pass though Chalong circle and the "extras" the people running the pier charge the shops for access.

Simply not true. Unless you're using a songteaw with white/green plates of course, which nearly none of them have. All legal transport is allowed to pass Chalong circle uninterrupted. Do things legally and you have nothing to worry about. But as soon as you start acting illegally you're on a very slippery slope. And at the pier all fees are known and completely legal.

@ stevenl I seem to remember a few years ago one of the Safari companies had a problem with Chalong police and all their land rovers were stopped/fines demanded. Local rumour was that the (then) new police chief was not getting enough kick-back. i wondering if you know whether these vehicles were legal or not ?.

I can check their vehicles when I see one. That would however say little about how legal they were when this was happening.

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@ HKP

"Great, that's how it works. The hotel messed up and now it's gone." - are you forgetting about the 7 people who died and the subsequent cover up????

"If you use a jet ski there is a one in 5000 chance you will be a victim of a scam." - so you admit the scam exists. 1 in 5000 is laughable. :) :) :) :) Shorter odds that that. Do you think those victims went home happy with their holiday in Phuket????

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@ HKP

"Great, that's how it works. The hotel messed up and now it's gone." - are you forgetting about the 7 people who died and the subsequent cover up????

"If you use a jet ski there is a one in 5000 chance you will be a victim of a scam." - so you admit the scam exists. 1 in 5000 is laughable. smile.pngsmile.pngsmile.pngsmile.png Shorter odds that that. Do you think those victims went home happy with their holiday in Phuket????

You have no idea how many people use jet skis every day, and nor do I, but you have to accept that the amount incidents is tiny and have only been brought to light by two or 3 (mainly one) high profile cases. I would say 1 in 5000 over the years could be about right.

No those small handful of people probably didn't go home happy, so what? The bloke who died falling from a parasail in Turkey a while back didn't go home happy, the bloke who got murdered in Miami, the woman who got raped in Spain, the kid who got run over by a drunk driver while on holiday in France, none of them went home happy.

You can't sanitize life completely. You have to go with the numbers and IMO the numbers say the vast majority of people are happy and leave Thailand without being scammed and can't wait to come back. You are trying to save people that don't want or need to be saved.

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So what does all of this ranting have to do with corruption ?

It's the way things are and always have been. People accept it or they moan about it. That's ranting about corruption on a forum in a nutshell.

The amount of corruption here 10 years ago was nothing on the amount that is here now and I'm sure will be nothing on what it will be in 10 years time here.

Lets try to stop making very broad statements and look at the facts. What exactly has changed about corruption in the last 10 years. How has it got worse specifically and how has it affected you personally?

Like I said before, my experiences of Phuket as a long term tourist or short term resident, (which ever makes you happy) hasn't changed at all in the last 12 years. I can't think of one single thing that has changed in that time that has affected me. A bit more traffic perhaps but where in the world hasn't that happened.

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out off the many thousands of tourists who visit places like Phuket, only a tiny number ever use the jetskis.

For the owners however the returns are astronomical. Especially if they indulge in the much publicised scams.

In places like Australia the banning and restriction of jetskis has resulted in benefits for tourism. Some places have seen large increases in visitors when they find that the water (fresh or sea) is once again safe for swimmers.

Apart from safety, jetskis also pollute the water (in Thailand few are mechanically sound and leak fuel etc), they also create noise pollution and prevent many form going into the water.

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corruption exists in many countries. However its existence elsewhere doesn't mitigate the corruption in Thailand

Corruption in Thailand is also quite unusual (in not unique) as it stems from the country's cultural history.

It not only permeates the entire society form the top to the very bottom but it is accepted by many as the "only way" to get things done.

Checks and balances that exist in other countries simply don't exist in Thailand, so even if corruption is exposed there is very little chance of the matter being addressed successfully.

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^^ Most people come to Thailand to get away from the Bureaucracy of their own countries.

What are you basing your opinion that lots of people don't go in the water because of jet skis on?

How many incidents have there ever been in Phuket of swimmers being injured by jet skis?

Edited by HongKongPhooey
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corruption exists in many countries. However its existence elsewhere doesn't mitigate the corruption in Thailand

Corruption in Thailand is also quite unusual (in not unique) as it stems from the country's cultural history.

It not only permeates the entire society form the top to the very bottom but it is accepted by many as the "only way" to get things done.

Checks and balances that exist in other countries simply don't exist in Thailand, so even if corruption is exposed there is very little chance of the matter being addressed successfully.

Exactly. "Cultural history", you either embrace it or you move somewhere things are done differently and where they meet your moral and social requirements.

Also agree that things won't be changing any time soon. The only way it will change is when the Thais with power decide that it would benefit them for things to change. Not holding my breath.

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Lets try to stop making very broad statements and look at the facts. What exactly has changed about corruption in the last 10 years. How has it got worse specifically and how has it affected you personally?

Good point HKP. I would say it has 'got worse' in subtle ways, for example the jet ski & tuk tuk operators have become much bolder with their threatening behavior as they are confident that the 'authorities' will do nothing because of the corruption of kick-backs. Really does not affect me personally, other than the fact that I can't park down on the beach road because of all the vehicle hire street vendors taking over much of the public parking or the tuk tuks hijacking much of the rest of the street parking. No matter, I use the Jungceylon car park. So I can adapt to the situation, but what about the new tourist arriving, renting a vehicle, and come face to face with this problem. Take the Frenchman last year, tries to park his hire car in the public car park at Kata, and gets his arm broken by an irate tuk tuk driver with a crow bar. No charges were ever made.

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