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Phuket Opinion: Corruption And The Duality Of Man


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@HKP

You seem to be missing the point here. Let's review NKM's post ...

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As it happens I really believe that statement. That's why the Tuk Tuks, Jet Skis, BIB, Tesiban are allowed to run rough shod (some might say shot gun) over the average tourist and long term resident and even local Thais. Personally I have little contact or problem with these influential people. Although we have a business here we are lucky enough to be located away from the main streets and try hard to keep low profile. Open a simple shop or front line business (especially a pub or massage place) and just wait for the heavies to roll along looking for their cut. This 'cost' is passed on to the punters. Try to park on a public road that is 'owned' by the taxi mafia, wow wait for the sparks to fly. I could easily give more examples, been covered so many times here on the Phuket Forum. I just wonder why HKP even tries to defend this.

I'm not missing the point, I didn't disagree with any of the tea money, corruption, influential family stuff did I. I disagreed with the statement tourism is unsustainable. Please tell me what evidence to show that tourism won't be booming in 10 years time. The usual "Oh isn't this low season more quiet than ever" stuff that we hear every year isn't what I would call proof. I have denied nothing you have just said in that post, and I haven't defended it either. It is what it is.

Let's look at it another way. If I'm wrong and you are all right, and what you say is obvious, then isn't everybody on this forum constantly making posts stating the obvious. What's the point in that? If it's so obvious why say it over and over again. Why act surprised like it's an amazing revelation and get all het up and flustered every time a new story comes on here. Like I said before, people on this forum remind me of the character in "50 first dates" where she wakes up every morning with no memory of who she is and anything that's ever happened before. Every morning it must be.. "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never". "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never". "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never" tongue.png

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It is true, I do not own a car, but I've rode past the BIS several times. I have never been inside the grounds, like I said, I have no need to and will never have the need to in the future. So, as admitted, I know nothing about the place.

If that was the truth why did you say this, word for word on another thread:

Didn't even know there was a British International School on Phuket. Just googled it and was impressed with what's on their website. If I had young kids on Phuket, I would have no problem sending them there, based on the information on their website.

How can you have ridden past it several times without knowing it was there?

You probably don't see what is repelling the majority of tourist because you are too busy having fun on your own holiday, after all, you don't actually live here, do you? smile.pngsmile.pngsmile.pngsmile.png

It is what it is. I spend an average of 9 months per year in Phuket and on average 3 in the UK. Call it living, holidaying, travelling, whatever floats your boat mate, it matters not to me, it is what it is. I bet I spend more time here than most people who work offshore. If you join "steelpulses" gang and try to make that relevant, then like him you are simply highlighting how week your argument is. Not that it ever needs much highlighting. wink.png

Anyway, If that makes me a tourist, then I must be in a much better position to discuss life as tourist on Phuket than you then, cos I am one and you aren't. wink.png

You didn't answer my question: Are the tourists numbers down this year over last year then? Have more businesses gone bust this year than last? What evidence is there that the tourist industry can't be sustained?

What you, and some others fail to realise, is corruption just gets BIGGER, and never SMALLER. It's that human nature thing called, GREED. Have you heard of it before? That means demands for corrupt payments get bigger in size and more frequent and/or the bribe/protection costs demanded get bigger in size and more frequent. All of these costs are pasted onto the consumer/tourist.

In between all of the above are people "pushing the boundaries" of who they can pay off to get away with whatever they want. Add to that drug use, and drug dealing, and ever increasing theft, violence and the usual "protected" scams, rip offs and extortions proliferating, and the whole thing spirals out of control.

With no proper policing and judicial system, who, and how, is it ever cleaned up? It's not, so it gets worse and worse.

So what exactly is your point. Like I said to "LIK", if what you're saying is true and obvious then why are you saying it again and again and again? Stating the obvious seems like such a wasteful way to spend your time.

So I've read what you've said about corruption, I agree with it. Now what?? Wait 2 days and say it again. Wait for another thread in the news section about it and then get all in a tiz woz and act like it's hot of the press news that we didn't all know about? What exactly is it we are supposed to be doing with the information you have shared?

Edited by HongKongPhooey
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Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

Do you really believe that HKP ?? All I can say is that you must not have got out and about very much.

Lol. No, the problem is HongNamPhouey doesn't have any idea what sustainable tourism is.

Icemans comments are right on.

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@HKP

You seem to be missing the point here. Let's review NKM's post ...

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As it happens I really believe that statement. That's why the Tuk Tuks, Jet Skis, BIB, Tesiban are allowed to run rough shod (some might say shot gun) over the average tourist and long term resident and even local Thais. Personally I have little contact or problem with these influential people. Although we have a business here we are lucky enough to be located away from the main streets and try hard to keep low profile. Open a simple shop or front line business (especially a pub or massage place) and just wait for the heavies to roll along looking for their cut. This 'cost' is passed on to the punters. Try to park on a public road that is 'owned' by the taxi mafia, wow wait for the sparks to fly. I could easily give more examples, been covered so many times here on the Phuket Forum. I just wonder why HKP even tries to defend this.

I'm not missing the point, I didn't disagree with any of the tea money, corruption, influential family stuff did I. I disagreed with the statement tourism is unsustainable. Please tell me what evidence to show that tourism won't be booming in 10 years time. The usual "Oh isn't this low season more quiet than ever" stuff that we hear every year isn't what I would call proof. I have denied nothing you have just said in that post, and I haven't defended it either. It is what it is.

Let's look at it another way. If I'm wrong and you are all right, and what you say is obvious, then isn't everybody on this forum constantly making posts stating the obvious. What's the point in that? If it's so obvious why say it over and over again. Why act surprised like it's an amazing revelation and get all het up and flustered every time a new story comes on here. Like I said before, people on this forum remind me of the character in "50 first dates" where she wakes up every morning with no memory of who she is and anything that's ever happened before. Every morning it must be.. "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never". "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never". "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never" tongue.png

What a silly comment your last paragraph, even for you. Who is acting surprised? Some of the things that go on on this island are certainly worth getting "het up" about, unless you just don't really care about anything at all. Lot's of people are self-absorbed like that. But these things you don't see or know about, or refuse to believe exist, they are simply wrong and can over time be changed. Ignoring them as you suggest is not the answer.

This same tired argument is made endlessly on here. BTB used to do the exact same thing. Next will be "then why don't you so something about it instead of just posting on a forum if you care so much about it." Some of us do.

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Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

Do you really believe that HKP ?? All I can say is that you must not have got out and about very much.

Lol. No, the problem is HongNamPhouey doesn't have any idea what sustainable tourism is.

Icemans comments are right on.

I know exactly what it means and I believe it is just as sustainable now as it was 10 years ago. I dare say I will be telling you the same thing in ten years time as well, when you and others will still be whining like a broken record.

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So what exactly is your point. Like I said to "LIK", if what you're saying is true and obvious then why are you saying it again and again and again? Stating the obvious seems like such a wasteful way to spend your time.

Shifting the debate from the issues to the debate itself is the first sign of defeat. Fox News does this routinely.

So I've read what you've said about corruption, I agree with it. Now what?? Wait 2 days and say it again. Wait for another thread in the news section about it and then get all in a tiz woz and act like it's hot of the press news that we didn't all know about? What exactly is it we are supposed to be doing with the information you have shared?

Again, I love when the arguement shifts away from the issue and towards the arguement itself. Reminds me of good old BTB.

If you must, you write about it again, and again, and again if you need to. You write your embassies, you write your local officials, your write the local and national media as many of us have. It's called civic duty. Expats and tourist voices are heard, as this article shows, and when we speak in chorus inevitably people listen.

Your suggestion then is to lay down and accept things as they are? How can anyone in their right mind suggest that?

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As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

Do you really believe that HKP ?? All I can say is that you must not have got out and about very much.

Lol. No, the problem is HongNamPhouey doesn't have any idea what sustainable tourism is.

Icemans comments are right on.

I know exactly what it means and I believe it is just as sustainable now as it was 10 years ago. I dare say I will be telling you the same thing in ten years time as well, when you and others will still be whining like a broken record.

Your posts clearly show you do not know what it means. You asked earlier when will you see signs of this unsustainable tourism. lol You haven't got a clue mate. Go study up and then come back after you have got one.

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What a silly comment your last paragraph, even for you. Who is acting surprised? Some of the things that go on on this island are certainly worth getting "het up" about, unless you just don't really care about anything at all. Lot's of people are self-absorbed like that. But these things you don't see or know about, or refuse to believe exist, they are simply wrong and can over time be changed. Ignoring them as you suggest is not the answer.

This same tired argument is made endlessly on here. BTB used to do the exact same thing. Next will be "then why don't you so something about it instead of just posting on a forum if you care so much about it." Some of us do.

Yes I remember your underground anti Tuk Tuk movement you started, and where everybody who didn't have a problem with them was accused of having a tuk tuk driver as a father in law. cheesy.gif How have you changed things so far then. coffee1.gif

You are about the third person on this thread that can't follow simple English. I have not denied anything, I have not said that I don't see or know anything about it or refuse to accept it exists.

I have just said to 'NKM', I agree with everything you say, now what? What happens now, what changes? Things are the way they are, they were the way they were last year when you were whining and they will be the way they are next year when you will still be whining.

I may start an undercover "anti whining movement" ph34r.png

Edited by HongKongPhooey
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Cynics tend to portray official corruption as an everyday fact of life on the island. The reality, however, is that very few law-abiding people suffer at the hands of corrupt officials on a regular basis.

I have never suffered at the hands of corrupt officials, even stronger, I have never paid any official anything that was not an official payment.

I can think of two examples off the top of my head. Evertime you drive on the clogged roads here you suffer at the hands of corrupt officials which do not allow reasonable, affordable transport. When you put customers on a seangteaw to go diving you suffer at the hands of corrupt police which charge a fee for dive trucks that pass though Chalong circle and the "extras" the people running the pier charge the shops for access.

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What a silly comment your last paragraph, even for you. Who is acting surprised? Some of the things that go on on this island are certainly worth getting "het up" about, unless you just don't really care about anything at all. Lot's of people are self-absorbed like that. But these things you don't see or know about, or refuse to believe exist, they are simply wrong and can over time be changed. Ignoring them as you suggest is not the answer.

This same tired argument is made endlessly on here. BTB used to do the exact same thing. Next will be "then why don't you so something about it instead of just posting on a forum if you care so much about it." Some of us do.

Yes I remember your underground anti Tuk Tuk movement you started, and where everybody who didn't have a problem with them was accused of having a tuk tuk driver as a father in law. cheesy.gif How have changed things so far then. coffee1.gif

You are about the third person on this thread that can't follow simple English. I have not denied anything, I have not said that I don't see or know anything about it or refuse to accept it exists.

I have just said to 'NKM', I agree with everything you say, now what? What happens now, what changes? Things are the way they are, they were the way they were last year when you were whining and they will be the way they are next year when you will still be whining.

I may start an undercover "anti whining movement" ph34r.png

What a poor memory you have. The one person making silly opposition statements suspiciously similar to they way you are now admitted himself he had an in-law that drove tuk tuks. No one else was accused.

It will hard to start a movement with your head buried so far up your....er....in the sand.

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Your suggestion then is to lay down and accept things as they are? How can anyone in their right mind suggest that?

Because I love the way things are. The only laying down I do is on the beach. thumbsup.gif

Your posts clearly show you do not know what it means. You asked earlier when will you see signs of this unsustainable tourism. lol You haven't got a clue mate. Go study up and then come back after you have got one.

"Sustainable tourism is tourism attempting to make as low impact on the environment and local culture as possible, while helping to generate future employment for local people. The aim of sustainable tourism is to ensure that development brings a positive experience for local people, tourism companies and the tourists themselves. Sustainable tourism is not the same as ecotourism."

Like I said, to what are they referring when they say that tourism here is unsustainable. I don't agree and and don't see anything when I'm out and about that makes me change my mind. What exactly about that doesn't make sense to you and makes you think I don't understand what it means. blink.png

Edited by LivinginKata
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So what does all of this ranting have to do with corruption ?

It's the way things are and always have been. People accept it or they moan about it. That's ranting about corruption on a forum in a nutshell.

Not it hasn't. Those of us that have been here 10+ years like steelpulse, lik, stevenl and many others realize how much worse it has gotten. You obviously haven't lived/been visiting here for very long. These comments clearly show that because you don't personally see the problem (or possibly you enjoy the benefits of it) you don't believe it exists.

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Your suggestion then is to lay down and accept things as they are? How can anyone in their right mind suggest that?

Because I love the way things are. The only laying down I do is on the beach. thumbsup.gif

Your posts clearly show you do not know what it means. You asked earlier when will you see signs of this unsustainable tourism. lol You haven't got a clue mate. Go study up and then come back after you have got one.

"Sustainable tourism is tourism attempting to make as low impact on the environment and local culture as possible, while helping to generate future employment for local people. The aim of sustainable tourism is to ensure that development brings a positive experience for local people, tourism companies and the tourists themselves. Sustainable tourism is not the same as ecotourism."

Like I said, to what are they referring when they say that tourism here is unsustainable. I don't agree and and don't see anything when I'm out and about that makes me change my mind. What exactly about that doesn't make sense to you and makes you think I don't understand what it means. blink.png

I know you don't understand what sustainable tourism means because you don't understand that practically every other article in the news relates to it. Transport problems, pollution,overbuilding, scams, traffic, etc etc.

Edited by LivinginKata
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