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Phuket Opinion: Corruption And The Duality Of Man


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So what does all of this ranting have to do with corruption ?

It's the way things are and always have been. People accept it or they moan about it. That's ranting about corruption on a forum in a nutshell.

Not it hasn't. Those of us that have been here 10+ years like steelpulse, lik, stevenl and many others realize how much worse it has gotten. You obviously haven't lived/been visiting here for very long. These comments clearly show that because you don't personally see the problem (or possibly you enjoy the benefits of it) you don't believe it exists.

12 years ago I used to holiday for 3-6 months per year. For the umpteenth time I accept they exist, they just don't bother me. If they did I wouldn't love Phuket so much and would "holiday" somewhere else.

If things are getting worse that is perfect proof that whining on a forum doesn't change anything as you constantly imply it does.

Back to my questions. What evidence is there to say tourism won't be booming in ten years? And whining about the way things are on forums serves what purpose? You agree things are getting worse so what exactly do you achieve?

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I know you don't understand what sustainable tourism means because you don't understand that practically every other article in the news relates to it. Transport problems, pollution,overbuilding, scams, traffic, etc etc.

jeez man let it go. I don't think traffic, building, pollution, scams etc etc are affecting tourism and I don't think it ever will. I know what sustainable tourism is <deleted>, I just don't agree with you. Get used to it.

PS. Using stevenl as an example is a poor choice. He never whines and moans like a baby on here. He remains positive and logical despite the amount of time he's been here and running a business. You should give it a go some time.

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If you must, you write about it again, and again, and again if you need to. You write your embassies, you write your local officials, your write the local and national media as many of us have. It's called civic duty. Expats and tourist voices are heard, as this article shows, and when we speak in chorus inevitably people listen.

So you are saying you write about it again and again and again. You write to your embassies and local officials and you write to national media as you say you have done before. It's called civic duty and your voices are heard.

Yet in the very same thread you say:

Not it hasn't. Those of us that have been here 10+ years like steelpulse, lik, stevenl and many others realize how much worse it has gotten.

So which is it? Are your voices being heard or are things getting worse. Can it be both? Sounds like you're fighting a losing battle to me mate. Ten out of ten for effort though. thumbsup.gif

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If you must, you write about it again, and again, and again if you need to. You write your embassies, you write your local officials, your write the local and national media as many of us have. It's called civic duty. Expats and tourist voices are heard, as this article shows, and when we speak in chorus inevitably people listen.

So you are saying you write about it again and again and again. You write to your embassies and local officials and you write to national media as you say you have done before. It's called civic duty and your voices are heard.

Yet in the very same thread you say:

Not it hasn't. Those of us that have been here 10+ years like steelpulse, lik, stevenl and many others realize how much worse it has gotten.

So which is it? Are your voices being heard or are things getting worse. Can it be both? Sounds like you're fighting a losing battle to me mate. Ten out of ten for effort though. thumbsup.gif

Yes we are fighting a losing battle, no doubt about that. But at least we speak up.

So which is the nobler cause? Our attempt to help make the truth of the matter known or your just as vehement attempts to silence us??

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Yes we are fighting a losing battle, no doubt about that. But at least we speak up.

So which is the nobler cause? Our attempt to help make the truth of the matter known or your just as vehement attempts to silence us??

At last some honesty. Finally admitting that moaning on forums DOES NOT change things. So why be so bemused when I say that accepting things the way they are is far more practical.

PS You wete telling fibs earlier. I found the post where you accused some body of having inlaws in the business and I happen to know 100% that he never ever admitted to it being true. You also accused him of passing on information to them which may hurt your cause. This obsession of yours has gone on way to long IMO especially as you admit you are achieving nothing and never will.

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Yes we are fighting a losing battle, no doubt about that. But at least we speak up.

So which is the nobler cause? Our attempt to help make the truth of the matter known or your just as vehement attempts to silence us??

At last some honesty. Finally admitting that moaning on forums DOES NOT change things. So why be so bemused when I say that accepting things the way they are is far more practical.

PS You wete telling fibs earlier. I found the post where you accused some body of having inlaws in the business and I happen to know 100% that he never ever admitted to it being true. You also accused him of passing on information to them which may hurt your cause. This obsession of yours has gone on way to long IMO especially as you admit you are achieving nothing and never will.

Wow your reading comprehension and memory sucks. You spin words like Bill O'Rilley. Yeah and after I accused them they admitted it. I really can't do this if you are going to be putting words in my mouth. I never said nothing was being achieved, and I never said nothing would ever change. Small accomplishments have happened. People that care about Phuket will continue to do the right thing and change will happen eventually, if a little at a time.

You direct the discussion down the this same path every time. It's a banal argument. It defies logic why someone would take such a hard stance against clearly a good thing in the face of undeniable evidence and consensus.

And if you cannot clearly understand what is said to you and reply to it appropriately, I cannot debate you. When you equate "we are fighting a losing battle" to "Finally admitting that moaning on forums DOES NOT change things" and "you admit you are achieving nothing and never will." you are revealing that you either have no understanding of the English language or you simply live in a different world than the rest of us. Either way, I am going to continue to comment on stories like this and you keep on trying to stop me. smile.png

PS: The only way you could think you know that they didn't admit it is if you are him.

Edited by NomadJoe
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So what does all of this ranting have to do with corruption ?

Nothing. HongKongPhoey likes to shift the argument to why people shouldn't bother to express their concerns over the direction Phuket is going, and should just law down and accept it. I don't understand why he has to make a campaign out of trying to convince everyone to not care. He has every right to lay down, keep quiet, not care, and take it all he wants. I sure wish he would exercise that right.

.

Edited by LivinginKata
member name corrected
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Oh, and Iceman, I presume you are responding to me, because you do that all the time. Don't bother though, you're on my ignorelist so I can't see your posts anymore. And I must say, ever since you're on that list I am a much happier poster here tongue.png .

Please point me to this feature. lol

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Law-abiding people will be still targeted for their vulnerability alone.

If someone is not strong enough to tell the corrupt bastard to F&^% off, I suggest investing in some CCTV equipment, and make sure to tell them everything they say and do is being recorded on video.

The last thing these official "thugs" want to do is appear in front of a Thai judge with some CCTV video as evidence.

This will most defiantly keep them away, well at least is has in my case over the past couple of years.

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Yeah and after I accused them they admitted it.

PS: The only way you could think you know that they didn't admit it is if you are him.

It's irrelevant how I know I can just promise you 100% that I know. One of the people you accused of spying for his in-laws never admitted any such thing because it wasn't true. It was nothing but paranoid delusion on your part. I'm trying not to talk about the T T's as 'LIK' posted that we shouldn't go down that road and should stick to the topic, otherwise I would show you all the ridiculous post you made several years ago and then we could discuss how exactly you think you've made a difference.

Either way, I am going to continue to comment on stories like this and you keep on trying to stop me. smile.png

I have no interest in trying to stop you. You beat your dead horse about how bad Phuket is and how we need to stand up and make things change, and I beat mine about how I think it's fine just as it is. It's the exact same difference.

Nothing. HongKongPhoey likes to shift the argument to why people shouldn't bother to express their concerns over the direction Phuket is going, and should just law down and accept it. I don't understand why he has to make a campaign out of trying to convince everyone to not care. He has every right to lay down, keep quiet, not care, and take it all he wants. I sure wish he would exercise that right.

Shift the argument?? That was the argument. Did you even read the OP or just get so excited that there was another thread you could talk about how bad Phuket was and how you were going to stand up and be counted and make a difference, that you just jumped straight in. Here's a recap for you:

"Cynics tend to portray official corruption as an everyday fact of life on the island. The reality, however, is that very few law-abiding people suffer at the hands of corrupt officials on a regular basis. The average resident is only confronted by graft at certain critical junctures, but this is often enough to reinforce the impression that official corruption is more widespread than it actually is. The sad result is that many honest, well-intentioned officials are also assumed to be on the take."

I like the bit when it says "very few law abiding citizens suffer at the hands of corrupt officials". So it's just me shifting the argument is it? Or perhaps the bloke who wrote that for the PG has a tuk tuk driver for a father in law as well. cheesy.gif

Edited by LivinginKata
insult removed
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Your suggestion then is to lay down and accept things as they are? How can anyone in their right mind suggest that?

Because I love the way things are. The only laying down I do is on the beach. thumbsup.gif

Your posts clearly show you do not know what it means. You asked earlier when will you see signs of this unsustainable tourism. lol You haven't got a clue mate. Go study up and then come back after you have got one.

"Sustainable tourism is tourism attempting to make as low impact on the environment and local culture as possible, while helping to generate future employment for local people. The aim of sustainable tourism is to ensure that development brings a positive experience for local people, tourism companies and the tourists themselves. Sustainable tourism is not the same as ecotourism."

Like I said, to what are they referring when they say that tourism here is unsustainable. I don't agree and and don't see anything when I'm out and about that makes me change my mind. What exactly about that doesn't make sense to you and makes you think I don't understand what it means. blink.png

" brings a positive experience for local people, tourism companies and the tourists themselves" - name one "positive" thing that has been done for tourist and tourism here in recent time????

I asked you this question a while ago and you did not reply.

A tourist who arrives on Phuket, for the first time, is introduced to corruption the moment they walk out the airport door and is hounded by the taxi cartel and their ridiculous prices. Amazing how a flight from Kuala Lumpur or Singapore can be cheaper than an airport taxi to Patong. It's a disgrace.

TAT would like to think they are targeting "high end tourist" here - what they really mean is "easily ripped off tourist." How long do you think that target market will last????

Edited by NamKangMan
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Law-abiding people will be still targeted for their vulnerability alone.

If someone is not strong enough to tell the corrupt bastard to F&^% off, I suggest investing in some CCTV equipment, and make sure to tell them everything they say and do is being recorded on video.

The last thing these official "thugs" want to do is appear in front of a Thai judge with some CCTV video as evidence.

This will most defiantly keep them away, well at least is has in my case over the past couple of years.

"Law-abiding people" are still paying the price of corruption here. That's how bad it is here. Not Thailand, in general, Phuket. You don't have to be approached and a payment/bribe demanded from you to be a victim of corruption. Remember the example I gave of buying a beer in a bar - some of the cost of that beer is for "tea money" every month. The owner has to pay it and passes this cost onto customers through the cost of the beer in his bar. That makes us ALL victims of corruption here.

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@ HKP

My post on the BIS was sarcastic. I was taking the piss. I stated this in a later post. Of course I knew there were several International Schools here, including the BIS - but fully admit that is as far as my knowledge on them goes, their location, that's it. In fact, I wouldn't know where they all are located, but I do know where the BIS is.

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Yes we are fighting a losing battle, no doubt about that. But at least we speak up.

So which is the nobler cause? Our attempt to help make the truth of the matter known or your just as vehement attempts to silence us??

At last some honesty. Finally admitting that moaning on forums DOES NOT change things. So why be so bemused when I say that accepting things the way they are is far more practical.

PS You wete telling fibs earlier. I found the post where you accused some body of having inlaws in the business and I happen to know 100% that he never ever admitted to it being true. You also accused him of passing on information to them which may hurt your cause. This obsession of yours has gone on way to long IMO especially as you admit you are achieving nothing and never will.

Some time ago, several people died, mysteriously, in The Down Town Inn in Chiang Mai. This hotel was owned by the former mayor of Chiang Mai. The spin put on these deaths was, it was all just a "co-incidence." It was expected that farang would accept this explanation. If it wasn't for the intense media coverage, website/internet information, word of mouth etc etc keeping pressure on the authorities, it would have all gone away, possibly with more deaths occurring.

As it turns out, due to tourists, basically, boycotting the hotel, it became unprofitable and I believe it has since been demolished.

An example for Phuket is, if we can save one person for being scammed on a jet-ski, for example, that's one step closer to having them boycotted, thus ending their criminal enterprise.

So, what you call "moaning" - can be in fact passing on information to possible future victims in order to inform them on how to avoid becoming a victim which then minimises the amount of money corruption makes here.

You ask what can be done about it, or what have I done about it? Once again, do you remember this thread?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/335364-comprehensive-list-of-scams-in-phuketthailand/

Over 20,000 views. I'm sure that thread may have saved a few readers some grief. If it saved just one reader from being scammed, that's great. I learnt a few things to keep an eye out for myself.

As I type this post, there is a grieving Canadian family after their daughters died under suspicious circumstances on Phi Phi last week. Should it be all just put down to their bad luck? It's not like they were scammed for a non-existant scratch on a motorbike - they are dead. We all know Thai authorities will do anything to protect the image of the tourism industry here, so, not properly investigating their deaths, not enforcing accountability and seeking justice for the family and then implementing policy to ensure it does not happen again - is that not the upper level of corruption for the almighty baht????

Corruption on Phuket is killing people, literally, particularly evident in the terrible road death statistics.

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