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'Secrets Bar & Hotel' Raid Leads To American Manager's Arrest: Pattaya

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Let's please keep the term "trafficking" to mean transporting across national borders coupled with the use of force or deceptions eg promising waitress jobs in Tokyo.

I'm not sure that there is any such cross-border requirement in the use of the word "trafficking", but by all means let's call a spade a spade and just say "pimping" instead.

There can be little doubt that establishments that have fixed price lists for "services", or offer rooms, or charge bar fines and have dedicated regular personnel to do the job are indeed well-qualified to be called pimps, a profession which is at a very low position indeed in my book.

Most of the English pubs in Thailand also offer bar girls. And where would we be without English pubs? Is your book in much demand?

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"Pattaya Times Editor's Note:

..... the manger-on-duty was a foreigner."

Not the first time that Pattaya Times has made a spelling error, but I should point out that the "a" in "manger" should be an "o".

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Most of the English pubs in Thailand also offer bar girls.

Not the ones that I go to, not that I go to many

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Most of the English pubs in Thailand also offer bar girls.

Not the ones that I go to, not that I go to many

I have noticed the absolute state of denial that most pub goers lapse into after a couple of beers. I think it is the common surroundings and years of conditioning that prevent men from seeing what is happening before their eyes. Normal shift change is around 4 PM. Start asking for phone numbers at that time and you will be amazed. If you like pub girls that is.

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To many of you are believing the story printed by the Pattaya Times. Understand that the Times has almost zero credibility. If I were to make an educated guess, it would be that Secrets either dropped advertising in the Times, or refused to advertise in the Times. The whole story makes no sense to anyone that has been a customer at Secrets. They do not do business as described in the story. The two Times story's don't match up with each other, much less anyones elses experience at Secrets.

The whole part of an underage maid is nothing more than unfounded accusations by the paper. Admittedly steeming from a forum poster who has some sort of a grudge with Secrets, and made accusations about them back in 2009. How much credibility can we give a a forum poster that makes an accusation in 2009 about Secrets employing an underage girl, years before that? What does that have to do with June 2012?

Had the editor of the Times not been accused of black mailing other business owners under threat of publishing false stories before, there could be some credibility to the story.

what about the photo?

What about the photo? Was there one of the supposed underage maid??

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Why? What's your objection if it turns out to be true that underage girls were being prostituted?

There never was any such allegation, but that a UA maid was preggers to a staffer.

Now apparently just a made-up story, most likely nothing to do with the bust it seems.

So we can go back to calling farang who collaborate with the BiB rats. 8-)

Let's please keep the term "trafficking" to mean transporting across national borders coupled with the use of force or deceptions eg promising waitress jobs in Tokyo.

I'm not sure that there is any such cross-border requirement in the use of the word "trafficking", but by all means let's call a spade a spade and just say "pimping" instead.

There can be little doubt that establishments that have fixed price lists for "services", or offer rooms, or charge bar fines and have dedicated regular personnel to do the job are indeed well-qualified to be called pimps, a profession which is at a very low position indeed in my book.

No problem with that at all.

I have noticed the absolute state of denial that most pub goers lapse into after a couple of beers. I think it is the common surroundings and years of conditioning that prevent men from seeing what is happening before their eyes. Normal shift change is around 4 PM. Start asking for phone numbers at that time and you will be amazed. If you like pub girls that is.

Sounds more like at worst wait staff freelancing, common enough but not a case of the business pimping. I've been successful taking the cosmetic girls out of Central department store, but wasn't asked for a barfine there either.

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I have noticed the absolute state of denial that most pub goers lapse into after a couple of beers. I think it is the common surroundings and years of conditioning that prevent men from seeing what is happening before their eyes. Normal shift change is around 4 PM. Start asking for phone numbers at that time and you will be amazed. If you like pub girls that is.

I only go to two pubs, and neither has any Thai people anywhere front of house apart from the waitresses. And they appear to be real waitresses whose only job is to deliver drinks and food etc. When they are there they seem to do a full shift. They accept tips but they don't drink with customers and mostly they only have time for minimal chitchat. Obviously what they may or may not do in their spare time after work is another matter (I've been propositioned chatted-up by shop staff in several places here, as I suspect have many others). I've never heard of anyone paying a bar fine in those places and they dont have rooms. So I would say the owners are doing nothing reprehensible at all (except perhaps charging too much for beer).

Edited by Darrel

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I have noticed the absolute state of denial that most pub goers lapse into after a couple of beers. I think it is the common surroundings and years of conditioning that prevent men from seeing what is happening before their eyes. Normal shift change is around 4 PM. Start asking for phone numbers at that time and you will be amazed. If you like pub girls that is.

I only go to two pubs, and neither has any Thai people anywhere front of house apart from the waitresses. And they appear to be real waitresses whose only job is to deliver drinks and food etc. When they are there they seem to do a full shift. They accept tips but they don't drink with customers and mostly they only have time for minimal chitchat. Obviously what they may or may not do in their spare time after work is another matter (I've been propositioned chatted-up by shop staff in several places here, as I suspect have many others). I've never heard of anyone paying a bar fine in those places and they dont have rooms. So I would say the owners are doing nothing reprehensible at all (except perhaps charging too much for beer).

I managed a restaurant/bar in a hotel in the West. Once I got arrested because my cocktail waitresses were hooking out of the bar during conventions. The judge let me off when I convinced him that it was normal behavior for cocktail waitresses. The cop who arrested me maintained that I knew that the ladies were prostitutes and that was true.There is one particular pub that I know of where the manager insists his girls are not on the game. He is of course wrong. The bar fine thing is one way of making the distinction but knowingly allowing ladies to proposition customers is another. It has been my experience, in both, Thailand and the West that if you have people working in a bar you are going to have money exchanged for sex. Best not to judge people as pimps or not unless you fancy yourself as the Pope or God or some such deity. If you think pimps are low class, up to you but me, I don't judge people anymore. I did when I was young and knew it all but I'm older than that now.

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I love the way the fabricated story about the underage maid has changed from being a 14 year old to a 16 year old in the "update" and now some BREAKING NEWS, take a look at the PT article and I am now appearing as the author. I quote:

"HOWARD MILLER CRIME SUPPRESSION DIVISION, CSD 19.06.2012 02:18"

So are they implying I was behind the raid.........are they implying I was the author of the article.....Are they implying I am somehow connected to the CSD......hilarious!

Edited by hm1973

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I love the way the fabricated story about the underage maid has changed from being a 14 year old to a 16 year old in the "update" and now some BREAKING NEWS, take a look at the PT article and I am now appearing as the author. I quote:

"HOWARD MILLER CRIME SUPPRESSION DIVISION, CSD 19.06.2012 02:18"

So are they implying I was behind the raid.........are they implying I was the author of the article.....Are they implying I am somehow connected to the CSD......hilarious!

He stuck your name under the byline? How big is your check from CSD? laugh.png

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Lot of unsubstantiated allegations going on here...

I think it is time members took stock of the facts..

and for my two pennies worth, IMHO am I not correct in thinking Secrets is probably the biggest conspicuous commercialized pimping operation in Pattaya?

and can anyone name any Pattaya newspaper (hard copy or on-line) with any creditability?

Edited by Basil B

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Lot of unsubstantiated allegations going on here...

I think it is time members took stock of the facts..

and for my two pennies worth, IMHO am I not correct in thinking Secrets is probably the biggest conspicuous commercialized pimping operation in Pattaya?

and can anyone name any Pattaya newspaper (hard copy or on-line) with any creditability?

No. you would be incorrect. It's a bar/restaurant/hotel.

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I'm wondering whether the raid had anything to do with the current visit to Pattaya by the Home Secretary, Chalerm, or the forthcoming visit to Pattaya by the PM, Yingluck Shinawatra...

Most of the bars charge a bar fine as compensation for the bar losing a member of staff for the night (similar to the EWR (Early Work Release) in The Philippines), what the two do afterwards is purely a matter of negotiation between them. It could be a game of tiddlywinks (though some of the girls are rather naughty and tiddle when they should be winking). Of course this is rather unlikely and all bar owners know what actually goes on, but it gives them "plausible deniability".

Edited by eyebee

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Lot of unsubstantiated allegations going on here...

I think it is time members took stock of the facts..

and for my two pennies worth, IMHO am I not correct in thinking Secrets is probably the biggest conspicuous commercialized pimping operation in Pattaya?

and can anyone name any Pattaya newspaper (hard copy or on-line) with any creditability?

No. you would be incorrect. It's a bar/restaurant/hotel.

Yes, it is a bar/restaurant/hotel and it is has made no secret that staff can be "Bar Fined"...

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I'm wondering whether the raid had anything to do with the current visit to Pattaya by the Home Secretary, Chalerm, or the forthcoming visit to Pattaya by the PM, Yingluck Shinawatra...

Most of the bars charge a bar fine as compensation for the bar losing a member of staff for the night (similar to the EWR (Early Work Release) in The Philippines), what the two do afterwards is purely a matter of negotiation between them. It could be a game of tiddlywinks (though some of the girls are rather naughty and tiddle when they should be winking). Of course this is rather unlikely and all bar owners know what actually goes on, but it gives them "plausible deniability".

You gotta be kidding! One does not bar fine the staff one bar fines bar girls. Except ..... I don't think I should go into it, too specific might offend some some people. Well I guess I could say that staff are not meant to be bar fined except sometimes when...... and bar girls are meant to be barfined. Normally in some places at least it's easy to tell the difference, look up on the stage at the people trying to shake those things off. Well at least before certain times. Look up on the wall for those big signs.

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