Phuket Tuk-Tuk Driver Gets Suspended Sentence For Attack On Tourist

[Nigel1500]

Any idea where this picture was shot? Egypt could be a good explanation of the misunderstanding!

It's an Egyptian cart and donkey ... there are "3-bags full" on the back ... and not a bag more !!!

[Ferangled]

I am also amused at your inability to comprehend what I wrote or follow the discussion. Readers of at least average intelligence will understand that my "False" statements were in direct response to your claim that the expensive Patong tuk tuks are only in Patong, and your suggestion that "the rest of Phuket" has affordable alternatives which you list as motorcycle taxi's, songteaws, taxi's, and cheaper than Patong tuk tuks..

As for local people not having an affordable way to get around the island, that's complete tosh. Most use motorbikes - what comes cheaper than that? Tuk Tuks operate in Patong, tourist central. The rest of Phuket is served by Songthaew, Taxis, Motorbike Taxis and cheaper than Patong Tuk Tuks...

As I explained quite clearly, you are wrong on either one or both of your points (availablilty and affordability) for each mode of transport you mentioned as each of these options you list are either not affordable, or not even available in other parts of Phuket counter to what you claim.

In fact, Kata/Karon tuk tuks are actually more expensive than Patongs. Anyone that has had to travel between Kata/Karon and Patong on a tuk tuk knows this. According to what one tuk tuk driver told me, this is due to the better orgainized Kata/Karon "co-op". . (It also explains why Kata/Karon has no motorcycle taxis.)

Phuket tuk tuks maybe slightly cheaper, but are still out of reach for most Thai's. When I tried to get a tuk tuk from Phuket Town inter-provencial bus station to the Phuket Town local bus (baht bus) station across town I was flat refused. The only option was 500B all the way to Kata. A distance that would have been 100B in an air-conditioned Bangkok taxi. Another BM just told me that when he uses a tuk tuk to trasport items from town to Chalong if he can't fit it all on his motorbike then he uses a tuk tuk. Cost is 350 baht for a trip that would be 70B in an air-conditioned Bangkok taxi.

As for your staff, they are either using privat;y hired song teaws or local baht buses. just about every hotel or resort of any size has to have it's own fleet of song teaws in order for their staff to get to and from work. "Song teaw" means "two rows" and refers to the two rows of benches in the back. Baht buses typically have a row running down the middle, but some also have just two. Song teaws are what Pattaya and Krabi have constantly circling around and between the beach destinations. A ride on which costs 20B or so, and usually "lady not pay" We do not have this song teaw system. If I am not mistaken, even the baht bus prices are up to 50B now. And again, there is no baht bus running between the beach areas directly due violent mafia action.

Any reasoably intelligent reader would also understand what I was saying with the photo's I posted. Most people can count, too. In one you can clearly see that 8 average to large size people can fit in the back of one. In another you see people riding on the back which is not uncommon when you have a lot of people in one tuk tuk. Add one or two more in the cab there is 10 or 11. And that's full sized people. With kids or smaller women more is possible. I'm sorry you can't seem to put the logical peieces together like everyone else, but when I Googled "10 large Egyptions in one tuk tuk." nothing came up.

Locals needing to buy their own bikes is not comical in the least. It's tragic. It is an established fact repeated by the media on many occasions. This not only resaults in additional traffic but also resaults in an increase in injuries and fatalities. All due to the fact that these poor people have no, or very little, alternatives.

Sorry, I'm not getting into a heated argument about whether a bunch of different modes of transport exist here, when I personally have used them all on more than one occasion in the last decade or so here. If you're having trouble PM me for details.

As to whether or not they are affordable I guess that depends on your personal income but I'm not one to argue over £2. You can hire a car from 500 baht a day here, £10, if you don't like the varied supply of transport on offer I would suggest renting one.

Neither am I going any further with these "you can cram 10 people into a tuk tuk" arguments. It's missing the obvious point that you can, this guy did it and it's not the normal, accepted thing to do, so £2 extra to do it shouldn't send someone into a rage, refusing to pay the fare or exit the tuk tuk.

It's just not reasonable behaviour and if you conduct yourself in that manner, expect to get punched by someone at some point wherever you are in the world.

[phl]

10 more happy tourists. Keep up the good work.

Sorry, I don't agree. The deal was 6 tourists for 300bt. That's 50bt per tourist.

The tuk-tuk driver can count to 10, so can I.

He only wanted an extra 100bt for the other 4 tourists. That's a great discount. The Egyptian should have been ecstatic.

But no, the 10 rich tourists had to try and scam the tuk-tuk driver, didn't they!

For what? 100bt .... that's three freakin' dollars .... for heaven's sake!

Was it worth it for $3? They've probably spent $15,000 between the 10 of them for this holiday ... and they're making a fuss over $3.

I am THOROUGHLY SICK AND TIRED of this sort of attitude from foreigners towards Thai workers.

Wake up .... the lot of you!

I'm usually charged 70-100bt. I always tip a tuk-tuk driver a 20. I always tip a taxi driver a 50. For a buck or two, we both walk away with a smile.

We all tip in the US, UK, or Australia ... but when we get to Bangkok, rich tourists suddenly turn into misers, scrouges, and whingers.

Where is that tuk-tuk driver? I'll pay his fine - for the moral wrong - and shout him and his family dinner for standing up for himself!

3 cheers

i did not realize taxi's charge per person, NOT for the distance

I never said they did !!! .... Taxi's charge per km ... a tuk-tuk is a different form of transport. It doesn't have a meter. The fare is negotiated. The driver can factor in the distance, number of passengers, ease of journey, time of day, etc. The point is, it is a negotiated deal. The tourist broke the contract the instant he tried to pile extra people on board.

This is the problem some tourists and foreigners have. They try to change the rules or apply western values to Thai society ... and then blame the Thai when things go awry.

If you want to pay by the km then get in a taxi and pay the metered fare.

If you want to negotiate with a tuk-tuk driver then at least honour the deal that is struck.

Have you been to Phuket yet or Thailand for that matter?

Phuket does not have metered taxi to get

[NamKangMan]

This thread seems to have a lot of posters who have never been to Phuket. Many do not know what type of vehicle we call a "tuk-tuk" here.

They don't seem to be able to comprehend just how bad the transport system is here.

They keep offering alternatives that they know other places have in Thailand, but they don't exist on Phuket. They probably think we are "taking the piss." Sadly, we are not - there are no transport options here and things really are that bad.

[starkey_rich]

I am also amused at your inability to comprehend what I wrote or follow the discussion. Readers of at least average intelligence will understand that my "False" statements were in direct response to your claim that the expensive Patong tuk tuks are only in Patong, and your suggestion that "the rest of Phuket" has affordable alternatives which you list as motorcycle taxi's, songteaws, taxi's, and cheaper than Patong tuk tuks..

As for local people not having an affordable way to get around the island, that's complete tosh. Most use motorbikes - what comes cheaper than that? Tuk Tuks operate in Patong, tourist central. The rest of Phuket is served by Songthaew, Taxis, Motorbike Taxis and cheaper than Patong Tuk Tuks...

As I explained quite clearly, you are wrong on either one or both of your points (availablilty and affordability) for each mode of transport you mentioned as each of these options you list are either not affordable, or not even available in other parts of Phuket counter to what you claim.

In fact, Kata/Karon tuk tuks are actually more expensive than Patongs. Anyone that has had to travel between Kata/Karon and Patong on a tuk tuk knows this. According to what one tuk tuk driver told me, this is due to the better orgainized Kata/Karon "co-op". . (It also explains why Kata/Karon has no motorcycle taxis.)

Phuket tuk tuks maybe slightly cheaper, but are still out of reach for most Thai's. When I tried to get a tuk tuk from Phuket Town inter-provencial bus station to the Phuket Town local bus (baht bus) station across town I was flat refused. The only option was 500B all the way to Kata. A distance that would have been 100B in an air-conditioned Bangkok taxi. Another BM just told me that when he uses a tuk tuk to trasport items from town to Chalong if he can't fit it all on his motorbike then he uses a tuk tuk. Cost is 350 baht for a trip that would be 70B in an air-conditioned Bangkok taxi.

As for your staff, they are either using privat;y hired song teaws or local baht buses. just about every hotel or resort of any size has to have it's own fleet of song teaws in order for their staff to get to and from work. "Song teaw" means "two rows" and refers to the two rows of benches in the back. Baht buses typically have a row running down the middle, but some also have just two. Song teaws are what Pattaya and Krabi have constantly circling around and between the beach destinations. A ride on which costs 20B or so, and usually "lady not pay" We do not have this song teaw system. If I am not mistaken, even the baht bus prices are up to 50B now. And again, there is no baht bus running between the beach areas directly due violent mafia action.

Any reasoably intelligent reader would also understand what I was saying with the photo's I posted. Most people can count, too. In one you can clearly see that 8 average to large size people can fit in the back of one. In another you see people riding on the back which is not uncommon when you have a lot of people in one tuk tuk. Add one or two more in the cab there is 10 or 11. And that's full sized people. With kids or smaller women more is possible. I'm sorry you can't seem to put the logical peieces together like everyone else, but when I Googled "10 large Egyptions in one tuk tuk." nothing came up.

Locals needing to buy their own bikes is not comical in the least. It's tragic. It is an established fact repeated by the media on many occasions. This not only resaults in additional traffic but also resaults in an increase in injuries and fatalities. All due to the fact that these poor people have no, or very little, alternatives.

Sorry, I'm not getting into a heated argument about whether a bunch of different modes of transport exist here, when I personally have used them all on more than one occasion in the last decade or so here. If you're having trouble PM me for details.

As to whether or not they are affordable I guess that depends on your personal income but I'm not one to argue over £2. You can hire a car from 500 baht a day here, £10, if you don't like the varied supply of transport on offer I would suggest renting one.

Neither am I going any further with these "you can cram 10 people into a tuk tuk" arguments. It's missing the obvious point that you can, this guy did it and it's not the normal, accepted thing to do, so £2 extra to do it shouldn't send someone into a rage, refusing to pay the fare or exit the tuk tuk.

It's just not reasonable behaviour and if you conduct yourself in that manner, expect to get punched by someone at some point wherever you are in the world.

Lucky you not worrying about £2.

Most Thais only earn £6 a day.

You sound like another Phuket business person denying anything that is bad about Phuket

[waza]

With that in mind the agreed fare of 300 baht for 6 people is in keeping with the guidelines.

400 baht for 10 represents a 100 baht saving on what he could have legitimately requested, again keeping in line with the fares laid out by the local Government...

Correct, but the issue here is the driver's assault on a potential passenger. As I read the story the Tuk Tuk had not moved anywhere. The driver noticed the extra 4 pax and upped the price. Fair enough. If the pax did not want to pay then tell them to get off. Striking the pax was wrong, and against the law. I suspect language difficulties and egos caused this assault. The bigger issue is that this sort of behaviour gets reported far too often.

Are you actually suggesting that assults shouldnt be reported?

The bigger issue here is that the tuk tuk association is an organised crime syndicate and its member act like violent thugs that standover their client and charge and illegal fare. While the authorities and others condone this practice by standing by and turning a blind eye, then when an incident happens to make the news they defend the criminal actions of the standover men.

Edited July 3, 2012 by waza

[techboy]

Seems like a fair sentence...

As for the damages to tourism, without condoning violence, 10 egyptians piling into a tuk-tuk refusing to pay 40bht each, no sure it's the kind of tourist Thailand needs in the first place.

Yeah? You ever heard of a 400baht Tuk Tuk ride under any circumstances??? During 12yrs here I have not seen anything near to that. And I will bet that neither have you.

[NomadJoe]

Seems like a fair sentence...

As for the damages to tourism, without condoning violence, 10 egyptians piling into a tuk-tuk refusing to pay 40bht each, no sure it's the kind of tourist Thailand needs in the first place.

Yeah? You ever heard of a 400baht Tuk Tuk ride under any circumstances??? During 12yrs here I have not seen anything near to that. And I will bet that neither have you.

12 years where exactly? Phuket? I am guessing not.

Take that 400B Patong to Kata fare for example. That is a distance of 8.5km. It would be 73B in an air-conditioned Bangkok metered taxi.

Phuket tuk tuks are the only form of transport in Thailand that are priced specifically for the tourists. The above signs are very rare. Without meter's, the tourist, who generally has no idea how far away things are or how much a trip should cost, is left to barter with the driver. The system is specifically designed to to be able to rip off tourists. Meters would all but eliminate these violent tuk tuk incidents that occur during the bartering process.

[NamKangMan]

Seems like a fair sentence...

As for the damages to tourism, without condoning violence, 10 egyptians piling into a tuk-tuk refusing to pay 40bht each, no sure it's the kind of tourist Thailand needs in the first place.

Yeah? You ever heard of a 400baht Tuk Tuk ride under any circumstances??? During 12yrs here I have not seen anything near to that. And I will bet that neither have you.

As per my above post - you obviously don't live on Phuket, or, you haven't been here for years.

200 baht minimum just to hop into the tuk-tuk for a short journey. A longer journey is 400 baht and both the same journeies at night double in price to 400 baht and 800 baht. Then, if it's also raining, the price goes up even more.

I am not "taking the piss." No one on this thread is joking. Those are the basic prices here. Some of them even want to charge more if they have to drive up a hill. It really is that bad here.

[NamKangMan]

Seems like a fair sentence...

As for the damages to tourism, without condoning violence, 10 egyptians piling into a tuk-tuk refusing to pay 40bht each, no sure it's the kind of tourist Thailand needs in the first place.

Yeah? You ever heard of a 400baht Tuk Tuk ride under any circumstances??? During 12yrs here I have not seen anything near to that. And I will bet that neither have you.

12 years where exactly? Phuket? I am guessing not.

Take that 400B Patong to Kata fare for example. That is a distance of 8.5km. It would be 73B in an air-conditioned Bangkok metered taxi.

Phuket tuk tuks are the only form of transport in Thailand that are priced specifically for the tourists. The above signs are very rare. Without meter's, the tourist, who generally has no idea how far away things are or how much a trip should cost, is left to barter with the driver. The system is specifically designed to to be able to rip off tourists. Meters would all but eliminate these violent tuk tuk incidents that occur during the bartering process.

You can't argue with those photos. They tell the sad story.

I would like to see the tuk-tuks drive around as baht buses, like in Pattaya. I wouldn't even trust them with meters. Make them work for a living, rather than do nothing all day and rip of one tourist for a days wage for a 10 minute ride. In Pattaya it's 10 baht to ride, I'd pay 20, or maybe 30 baht here. They would actually make more money with many people jumping on and off during their shift.

This time of year, there are many cheap guest houses for 500 baht per night. To go for a drink to Kata is 400 baht down in the afternoon and 800 baht back at night. That's 1200 baht. No wonder many ride down, get a room for the night, get drunk, go back to the room, have breakfast in the morning and ride home. A 8.5km journey is an overnight trip on Phuket.

An absolute disgrace.

Edited July 3, 2012 by NamKangMan

[NomadJoe]

Tuk-tuks in Phuket Town are considerably cheaper than anywhere else on the island, so, you do see a few locals using them, but since the free pink buses came into service, not so many.

Are you sure these are free? I checked online and they appear to be 10 or 20B, free for students and monks. I think they might have been free for a trial period when they first started?

[Trader]

Some are being kind of harsh on the Tourist...

So this guy from Egypt comes to this part of Thailand where it's well known for ripping off tourists. He agrees to pay 300B. Now 300B is an exorbitant amount to pay for less than one kl. In New York, one of the most expensive cities in the world, taxis cost $2.50 just for getting in and an additional .50 per 1/4 mile..So in NY this journey would cost about 125B for however many people can legally fit into the vehicle. But in los, a third world country it cost 300B.?? This guy is thinking ...I think I'm getting ripped off here.

How many people? Ahh.....I dont know..lets say six. Then a few of his buddies jump on and stand on the back as they pull away. Now the driver wants 400B. The Egyptian guy doesn't want to back down in front of ten of his best mates...and you have the ingredients for an interesting confrontation. So there's your problem.

I am surprised that a Thai would resort to physical violence. It would take allot for a Thai to hit someone. Never seen that.. Most would just take the 300B and walk away pissed off ..but with that silly grin on their face.

[Jaivin2011]

The Southern provinces like Phuket, Hadyai, Phangna, Samui etc are all run by the Democrats like Suthep Thepsuban etc who have mafia styles of operations hence it normal to find that the locals there also operate in a similar manner and are often rude to foreigners.....if you remember Suthep before made very insulting comments about foreigners.

What foreigners, expats and potantial toursist should do is to boycott these places and also forget about the red-controlled Isaan areas, there is nothing to see unless you are looking for a second-hand wife. There are better new alternative destinations to Thailand.

[Ferangled]

I am also amused at your inability to comprehend what I wrote or follow the discussion. Readers of at least average intelligence will understand that my "False" statements were in direct response to your claim that the expensive Patong tuk tuks are only in Patong, and your suggestion that "the rest of Phuket" has affordable alternatives which you list as motorcycle taxi's, songteaws, taxi's, and cheaper than Patong tuk tuks..

As for local people not having an affordable way to get around the island, that's complete tosh. Most use motorbikes - what comes cheaper than that? Tuk Tuks operate in Patong, tourist central. The rest of Phuket is served by Songthaew, Taxis, Motorbike Taxis and cheaper than Patong Tuk Tuks...

As I explained quite clearly, you are wrong on either one or both of your points (availablilty and affordability) for each mode of transport you mentioned as each of these options you list are either not affordable, or not even available in other parts of Phuket counter to what you claim.

In fact, Kata/Karon tuk tuks are actually more expensive than Patongs. Anyone that has had to travel between Kata/Karon and Patong on a tuk tuk knows this. According to what one tuk tuk driver told me, this is due to the better orgainized Kata/Karon "co-op". . (It also explains why Kata/Karon has no motorcycle taxis.)

Phuket tuk tuks maybe slightly cheaper, but are still out of reach for most Thai's. When I tried to get a tuk tuk from Phuket Town inter-provencial bus station to the Phuket Town local bus (baht bus) station across town I was flat refused. The only option was 500B all the way to Kata. A distance that would have been 100B in an air-conditioned Bangkok taxi. Another BM just told me that when he uses a tuk tuk to trasport items from town to Chalong if he can't fit it all on his motorbike then he uses a tuk tuk. Cost is 350 baht for a trip that would be 70B in an air-conditioned Bangkok taxi.

As for your staff, they are either using privat;y hired song teaws or local baht buses. just about every hotel or resort of any size has to have it's own fleet of song teaws in order for their staff to get to and from work. "Song teaw" means "two rows" and refers to the two rows of benches in the back. Baht buses typically have a row running down the middle, but some also have just two. Song teaws are what Pattaya and Krabi have constantly circling around and between the beach destinations. A ride on which costs 20B or so, and usually "lady not pay" We do not have this song teaw system. If I am not mistaken, even the baht bus prices are up to 50B now. And again, there is no baht bus running between the beach areas directly due violent mafia action.

Any reasoably intelligent reader would also understand what I was saying with the photo's I posted. Most people can count, too. In one you can clearly see that 8 average to large size people can fit in the back of one. In another you see people riding on the back which is not uncommon when you have a lot of people in one tuk tuk. Add one or two more in the cab there is 10 or 11. And that's full sized people. With kids or smaller women more is possible. I'm sorry you can't seem to put the logical peieces together like everyone else, but when I Googled "10 large Egyptions in one tuk tuk." nothing came up.

Locals needing to buy their own bikes is not comical in the least. It's tragic. It is an established fact repeated by the media on many occasions. This not only resaults in additional traffic but also resaults in an increase in injuries and fatalities. All due to the fact that these poor people have no, or very little, alternatives.

Sorry, I'm not getting into a heated argument about whether a bunch of different modes of transport exist here, when I personally have used them all on more than one occasion in the last decade or so here. If you're having trouble PM me for details.

As to whether or not they are affordable I guess that depends on your personal income but I'm not one to argue over £2. You can hire a car from 500 baht a day here, £10, if you don't like the varied supply of transport on offer I would suggest renting one.

Neither am I going any further with these "you can cram 10 people into a tuk tuk" arguments. It's missing the obvious point that you can, this guy did it and it's not the normal, accepted thing to do, so £2 extra to do it shouldn't send someone into a rage, refusing to pay the fare or exit the tuk tuk.

It's just not reasonable behaviour and if you conduct yourself in that manner, expect to get punched by someone at some point wherever you are in the world.

Lucky you not worrying about £2.

Most Thais only earn £6 a day.

You sound like another Phuket business person denying anything that is bad about Phuket

Unfortunately with the likes of this Egyptian and the majority of posters on here, they're never likely to earn more either are they?

What a confused stance, you moan about Thais not earning over £6 a day yet would quibble an extra £2 for a local tuk tuk driver.... you seem to miss the connection. These guys have to earn a living and the fares aren't approaching the high costs of taxis in the west here.

Yes, I am a Phuket based businessman, one that's trying to bring UK standards into Thailand and I pay my staff a hell of a lot more than £6 a day. I am of the opinion that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys and by raising salaries you can raise standards. Personally I don't see that moaning about lowly salaries and then complaining that prices are to high you are doing anything to change the status quo.

Given that the Phuket tuk tuks primarily serve the tourist areas here you obviously have no idea how this impacts the local Thais. Thais use the Songthaews, private taxis, the motorcycle taxis and... shock horror... their own vehicles. Given that for the cost of c.30 tuk tuk rides in Patong you can buy a 2nd hand motorbike and given the easy finance available to Thais, why would you expect them to use the tuk tuks?

Tuk Tuks are a convenient, novelty for Tourists here, for skipping from one bar to the next or back to the hotel. They cost a lot more to buy than a normal pickup/ car and price accordingly.

[Ferangled]

You can't argue with those photos. They tell the sad story.

I would like to see the tuk-tuks drive around as baht buses, like in Pattaya. I wouldn't even trust them with meters. Make them work for a living, rather than do nothing all day and rip of one tourist for a days wage for a 10 minute ride. In Pattaya it's 10 baht to ride, I'd pay 20, or maybe 30 baht here. They would actually make more money with many people jumping on and off during their shift.

This time of year, there are many cheap guest houses for 500 baht per night. To go for a drink to Kata is 400 baht down in the afternoon and 800 baht back at night. That's 1200 baht. No wonder many ride down, get a room for the night, get drunk, go back to the room, have breakfast in the morning and ride home. A 8.5km journey is an overnight trip on Phuket.

An absolute disgrace.

Great idea but if all the tuk tuks in Patong took to the roads like baht buses the town would be gridlocked. Your idea would work for a privileged few drivers, the vast majority would be out of a job.

That's the crux of the issue, too many Thais flocking to Phuket to earn a crust. Fares are controlled and kept high to prevent people coming in and undercutting the existing drivers, driving the prices down to the point that no one earns a decent living. If the prices were slashed perhaps they'd still be enough for the single guy from Nakhon Si Nowhere to keep going but not for the original Phuket based driver supporting a wife and 4 children... much like the influx of cheap eastern European labour in the UK. Fine for the Polish builder sharing a room with 4 others and sending the majority of his salary back east, not so great for the established English builder with 3 kids and a mortgage.

The cost of living in Phuket is high. This isn't down to tuk tuk prices as suggested earlier! It's to do with a number of factors, not least the sky high land prices due to the number of foreign investors here prepared to pay well over the odds for land, labour and materials. Expect prices to continue to rise because development here is showing little signs of decreasing.... perhaps the bubble will eventually burst but for the time being, expect prices to rise not fall. You will notice a similar trend in other countries/ regions if you choose to look...

[steelepulse]

>>Fares are controlled and kept high to prevent people coming in and undercutting the existing drivers

No, fares are controlled because those in control make millions of baht per month by controlling this racket via co op fees and rentals of the vehicles. The families in control could give a flying **** about anything else. If anyone tried to come in and undercut the fares, they'd find themselves in hospital...........if they're lucky, disappeared if they're not lucky.

[Ferangled]

>>Fares are controlled and kept high to prevent people coming in and undercutting the existing drivers

No, fares are controlled because those in control make millions of baht per month by controlling this racket via co op fees and rentals of the vehicles. The families in control could give a flying **** about anything else. If anyone tried to come in and undercut the fares, they'd find themselves in hospital...........if they're lucky, disappeared if they're not lucky.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing?!

The fares aren't undercut because the controlling families won't allow that to happen because it will eat into their profit margins. It's the powers that be keeping the fares high and controlling them, not the tuk tuk drivers, they simply tow the line or lose their livelihood.

Is that the fault of the individual tuk tuk drivers? I regularly see them all in their Armani suits, pulling back into their 4 car garages, in their private pool villas after a hard night driving drunks around Patong...

Corruption is rife in Thailand and it stems from the top. No tuk tuk driver is in any position to change the way the system works here, they're at the bottom of the ladder and will do anything they can to keep their family afloat.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Ferangled

[NomadJoe]

Some are being kind of harsh on the Tourist...

So this guy from Egypt comes to this part of Thailand where it's well known for ripping off tourists. He agrees to pay 300B. Now 300B is an exorbitant amount to pay for less than one kl. In New York, one of the most expensive cities in the world, taxis cost $2.50 just for getting in and an additional .50 per 1/4 mile..So in NY this journey would cost about 125B for however many people can legally fit into the vehicle. But in los, a third world country it cost 300B.?? This guy is thinking ...I think I'm getting ripped off here.

How many people? Ahh.....I dont know..lets say six. Then a few of his buddies jump on and stand on the back as they pull away. Now the driver wants 400B. The Egyptian guy doesn't want to back down in front of ten of his best mates...and you have the ingredients for an interesting confrontation. So there's your problem.

I am surprised that a Thai would resort to physical violence. It would take allot for a Thai to hit someone. Never seen that.. Most would just take the 300B and walk away pissed off ..but with that silly grin on their face.

I agree some are being harsh on the tourist. No one really knows how it went down except those that were there. The only fact we do know is that the driver resorted to physical violence, the tourist did not. But if you live here then you should certainly be aware that when compared to westerners, Thai's are generally very tolerant, and are all smiley up to a point, but often when a certain level of face is lost, they can snap. It is a well known characteristic of the culture and you see such events in the news frequently, particularly with farangs that don't understand this, like 100% of tourists. The group that works at the top of Bangla where this incident happened are a particularly violent bunch. There have been countless incidents there. As I mentioned I saw one myself where 20+ tuk tuk drivers took turns beating the snot out of a coupe tourists. I reported it to multiple English language media but the police denied it happened despite the police taking the bloodied tourists away an the back of a RTP truck.

If by "you have never seen Thai's resort to violence" you mean you have never heard or read about it, I suggest you click here to visit my post #180. That is just a partial list of Phuket tuk tuk incidents, most of them involving violence against foreigners.

[NamKangMan]

Some are being kind of harsh on the Tourist...

So this guy from Egypt comes to this part of Thailand where it's well known for ripping off tourists. He agrees to pay 300B. Now 300B is an exorbitant amount to pay for less than one kl. In New York, one of the most expensive cities in the world, taxis cost $2.50 just for getting in and an additional .50 per 1/4 mile..So in NY this journey would cost about 125B for however many people can legally fit into the vehicle. But in los, a third world country it cost 300B.?? This guy is thinking ...I think I'm getting ripped off here.

How many people? Ahh.....I dont know..lets say six. Then a few of his buddies jump on and stand on the back as they pull away. Now the driver wants 400B. The Egyptian guy doesn't want to back down in front of ten of his best mates...and you have the ingredients for an interesting confrontation. So there's your problem.

I am surprised that a Thai would resort to physical violence. It would take allot for a Thai to hit someone. Never seen that.. Most would just take the 300B and walk away pissed off ..but with that silly grin on their face.

I agree some are being harsh on the tourist. No one really knows how it went down except those that were there. The only fact we do know is that the driver resorted to physical violence, the tourist did not. But if you live here then you should certainly be aware that when compared to westerners, Thai's are generally very tolerant, and are all smiley up to a point, but often when a certain level of face is lost, they can snap. It is a well known characteristic of the culture and you see such events in the news frequently, particularly with farangs that don't understand this, like 100% of tourists. The group that works at the top of Bangla where this incident happened are a particularly violent bunch. There have been countless incidents there. As I mentioned I saw one myself where 20+ tuk tuk drivers took turns beating the snot out of a coupe tourists. I reported it to multiple English language media but the police denied it happened despite the police taking the bloodied tourists away an the back of a RTP truck.

If by "you have never seen Thai's resort to violence" you mean you have never heard or read about it, I suggest you click here to visit my post #180. That is just a partial list of Phuket tuk tuk incidents, most of them involving violence against foreigners.

One of these days someone will video a tuk-tuk incident on their phone and upload it. I'm surprised other tourist in the area didn't do this when they saw the disturbance. They were probably in fear they would be assaulted as well.

[Ferangled]

Some are being kind of harsh on the Tourist...

So this guy from Egypt comes to this part of Thailand where it's well known for ripping off tourists. He agrees to pay 300B. Now 300B is an exorbitant amount to pay for less than one kl. In New York, one of the most expensive cities in the world, taxis cost $2.50 just for getting in and an additional .50 per 1/4 mile..So in NY this journey would cost about 125B for however many people can legally fit into the vehicle. But in los, a third world country it cost 300B.?? This guy is thinking ...I think I'm getting ripped off here.

How many people? Ahh.....I dont know..lets say six. Then a few of his buddies jump on and stand on the back as they pull away. Now the driver wants 400B. The Egyptian guy doesn't want to back down in front of ten of his best mates...and you have the ingredients for an interesting confrontation. So there's your problem.

I am surprised that a Thai would resort to physical violence. It would take allot for a Thai to hit someone. Never seen that.. Most would just take the 300B and walk away pissed off ..but with that silly grin on their face.

I agree some are being harsh on the tourist. No one really knows how it went down except those that were there. The only fact we do know is that the driver resorted to physical violence, the tourist did not. But if you live here then you should certainly be aware that when compared to westerners, Thai's are generally very tolerant, and are all smiley up to a point, but often when a certain level of face is lost, they can snap. It is a well known characteristic of the culture and you see such events in the news frequently, particularly with farangs that don't understand this, like 100% of tourists. The group that works at the top of Bangla where this incident happened are a particularly violent bunch. There have been countless incidents there. As I mentioned I saw one myself where 20+ tuk tuk drivers took turns beating the snot out of a coupe tourists. I reported it to multiple English language media but the police denied it happened despite the police taking the bloodied tourists away an the back of a RTP truck.

If by "you have never seen Thai's resort to violence" you mean you have never heard or read about it, I suggest you click here to visit my post #180. That is just a partial list of Phuket tuk tuk incidents, most of them involving violence against foreigners.

One of these days someone will video a tuk-tuk incident on their phone and upload it. I'm surprised other tourist in the area didn't do this when they saw the disturbance. They were probably in fear they would be assaulted as well.

Or perhaps most onlookers thought the Egyptian was acting like a tw@t...

Sounds like it was the tuk tuk driver that reacted out of fear to me... crowded by 10 Egyptians he lost his cool, lashed out and ran away. It doesn't sound like he managed to scare the Egyptian bloke he hit let alone any passers by... but don't let that stand in the way of some good TV speculation!

Edited July 4, 2012 by Ferangled

[NomadJoe]

Lucky you not worrying about £2.

Most Thais only earn £6 a day.

You sound like another Phuket business person denying anything that is bad about Phuket

Unfortunately with the likes of this Egyptian and the majority of posters on here, they're never likely to earn more either are they?

Who, exactly, is "they"? What you have just done apparently without realizing it is confused the average Thai salaries (6-7k/mo) with the untold fortunes collected by the wealthy influencial Phuket families that own the fleets of tuk tuks, the politicions and police that are paid to support them, and tuk tuk drivers who make 35-45k/mo on average. (That's not counting the few individual owners that make much more) It's the Thai salaries that will be saved when a reasonably priced transport system is available to them and a system is implemented which doesn't keep ending up with tourists getting battered by tuk tuk drivers, which is increasingly having an effect on tourism, an industry which most Thai's in Phuket rely on for those wages. I would think that would be a concern for someone that owned a hotel in Phuket. Most hotels/resorts are screaming bloody murder over the strangle hold local tuk tuk/taxi mafia's have over them.

What a confused stance, you moan about Thais not earning over £6 a day yet would quibble an extra £2 for a local tuk tuk driver.... you seem to miss the connection.

Talk about confused...He's not moaning about Thai's making 6 pounds a day, he's pointing out that to you 2 pounds may be nothing. To a Thai who's typical salary is 350B a day, it is something.

Edited July 4, 2012 by NomadJoe

[NomadJoe]

These guys have to earn a living and the fares aren't approaching the high costs of taxis in the west here.

Wrong. In many cases, the fares are more than in the west as was shown in a previous post comparing them to NY taxi cabs. California taxi's are considered expensive, and I pay the same price for a taxi from Phuket Airport to Kata as I do going the same distance in a taxi in California which has a 3x cost of living.

They cost a lot more to buy than a normal pickup/ car and price accordingly.

Wrong again. A new tuk tuk is 325k. A normal pick-up/car is 550-650k.

[LivinginKata]

Last 3 posts removed as just bickering. Another time out required. Closed for a short time.

[LivinginKata]

Very last chance. Any more trading insults and topic will be closed.

[NomadJoe]

The fares aren't undercut because the controlling families won't allow that to happen because it will eat into their profit margins. It's the powers that be keeping the fares high and controlling them, not the tuk tuk drivers, they simply tow the line or lose their livelihood.

Agreed.

Is that the fault of the individual tuk tuk drivers? I regularly see them all in their Armani suits, pulling back into their 4 car garages, in their private pool villas after a hard night driving drunks around Patong...

Quite ironic this comment. Many of the homes of these tuk tuk drivers are quite nice, middle class homes. As I mentioned, they make doctors wages. They do very, very well by Thai standards.

Corruption is rife in Thailand and it stems from the top. No tuk tuk driver is in any position to change the way the system works here, they're at the bottom of the ladder and will do anything they can to keep their family afloat.

Agreed. No one is asking them to. I know really nice guys that are tuk tuk drivers. Many have actually complained about the system just like we do, particularly the private owners. Certainly most of them, at least island wide, are decent folks, but many aren't, and they seem to congregate in Patong specifically at the top of Bangla Rd, although Kata/Karon has had it's share of assaults as well. It's the system in place which allows the established the extortionate fares, allows the lack of posted fares or meters, and has created an environment where drivers can easily rip off tourists that have no idea how far their destination is. All the tourist knows is that from wherever they just came from.... Bangkok, Pattaya, Chang Mai, Samui, or wherever...they paid 20-30B for a tuk tuk, or 75B for an air-conditioned taxi but are now suddenly being asked for 200-400B to go a short distance. Recognizing this as the scam it is, they protest, having been told by every internet site and travel book in existence that bartering is the norm in Thailand. Rather naturally, at least according to some board members, the tuk tuk driver then assaults the tourist and is then protected by the same system that has created the problem in the first place.

[NomadJoe]

Great idea but if all the tuk tuks in Patong took to the roads like baht buses the town would be gridlocked. Your idea would work for a privileged few drivers, the vast majority would be out of a job.

The roads are already gridlocked with tuk tuks! Thank you for pointing out a very important thing, there are far too many tuk tuks in Patong, and there are far too many in Phuket. There are 500 registered tuk tuks in Patong and several more unregistered illegal tuk tuks and "black plate" taxi's. Even the Patong police cheif said 200 tuk tuks are enough for Patong. Have you driven around Patong lately? Most tuk tuks sit idle most of the time taking up all the public parking, parked illegally along beach road, or lined up 3 deep in front of Thai Pan. The rest slowly cruise around empty honking at every foriegner they see shouting "tuk tuk taxi!" If not "on the road" then where are they hiding? And please explain how a baht bus system is going work only work for just the "privileged few" drivers? That makes no sense. Are you actually saying that a better system which would benefit tourists and locals, reduce traffic congestion and traffic accidents, vastly improve Phukets image as safe and practical international tourist destination be scrapped in favor of a system that benefits only the wealthy families that own the fleets of tuk tuks and the politicians and police officials who's pockets they line? Very few tuk tuks in Phuket are driver owned. In the rest of Thailand and the rest of the world, transport systems are there to support the people and industry of the community, not the other way around.

Fares are controlled and kept high to prevent people coming in and undercutting the existing drivers, driving the prices down to the point that no one earns a decent living. If the prices were slashed perhaps they'd still be enough for the single guy from Nakhon Si Nowhere to keep going but not for the original Phuket based driver supporting a wife and 4 children...

Listen to what you're saying. You're saying that fares are artificially controlled well above (4 to 10 times) national rates (that's called price fixing BTW) to protect the massive profits of the few wealthy families that own and rent out the vast majority of the tuk tuks. In reality, the fares are kept high because they are greedy and it's what they can get away with. It has nothing to do with a fear of competition. The competition got dragged from his bus and beaten. The rented tuk tuk drivers make no less than 20,000 in the low season and at least 50,000B a month in high season. With no education and no English skills they earn doctors wages. So you can throw your "cheap European labor" example out the window.

[brutosor]

taxi tuk tuk in patong are very bad people, no education, no rules.

They are agressive with tourist and not friendly.

Most of them are under effect of drugs and being crazy...

They wait to fight tourists as they cant fight well in thai boxing stadium. Poor people...

[Ferangled]

"The roads are already gridlocked with tuk tuks!"

Agree, that was my point - how would that get better if all the tuk tuks took to the road at once as baht buses?

"Most tuk tuks sit idle most of the time"

Agree, see above, see below...

"The rented tuk tuk drivers make no less than 20,000 in the low season and at least 50,000B a month in high season."

So by your own admission the vast majority of tuk tuks sit idle with no fares most of time, by your own admission there are far to many tuk tuks in Patong already; How does this support this fantasy figure that you have come out with? How if they are sitting idle, supply out weighing demand are these tuk tuks bringing in that much profit after paying the majority commission back to the controlling families?

The tuk tuk drivers I know are struggling to make ends meet, they're not living in "nice, middle class homes", they are living in rented rooms with their entire families, working all hours to provide food and pay the rent. In years past they were doing better, earning commissions from entry to attractions, jewellery purchases etc and fares were less as a result. With the dramatic shift in tourist demographic this has dropped right off as more and more come simply to drink, party and sh@g prostitutes...

"Please explain how a baht bus system is going work only work for just the "privileged few" drivers"

Because as we both agree there are far too many tuk tuks in Patong already. Only a small fraction of the existing tuk tuks would be required to operate a baht bus service, that I agree, would be much more efficient and better for tourists. To put this in place 90% of the existing tuk tuks would have to be removed and lose their jobs.

"A new tuk tuk is 325k"

Please post details where I can buy a new tuk tuk for 325,000 bt, I know people that would snap them up at that price and are paying considerably more to fix up old ones. This is an honest request for information, I'm not calling you a liar and would really be interested to know where this deal is to be had...

This thread seems to have gone off topic from a fairly innocuous incident involving a tourist that was blatantly pushing his luck and a tuk tuk driver that lost his temper, to a general rant about tuk tuks in Phuket and how expensive and violent they all are. As far as I am concerned, the sentence was fair, the police and courts have done their jobs and contrary to the weight of opinion I think this is a positive sign of a possible clamp down in Patong. I would be happier still if the dreadful place just slid into the ocean never to be seen again, leaving the real Phuket to come out from it's stench into the limelight.

I'm not going to get involved in debating the ills of Phuket's transport system as personally it suits me fine. I drive myself, enjoy a vibrant 2nd hand car market incurring minimal expense for personal transport and use known taxi drivers if I'm out drinking, again at minimal expense. I have no use for tuk tuks which I consider inherently dangerous and, as I have said, a novelty item for tourists. Thais I know here do exactly as I do, and very rarely have any use for the tuk tuks. Yes perhaps this would change if they were cheaper and better run, but there are far more pressing issues than tuk tuks that need attention in my mind.

And no, I don't own a hotel or work in the tourist industry. I'm not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. The tourist industry in Thailand has absolutely no bearing on my income and personally I prefer low season here, when most of the idiots this place seems to attract are not here!

I appreciate that tuk tuk prices and behaviour affect everyone differently and I am fortunate in that for me, they are a total irrelevance in everyday life. I understand what many are saying but would like all to understand that getting angry with the tuk tuk drivers will do nothing to change the situation, they are pawns in the system and are just doing a job. Shouting at them and arguing over small amounts of money is more likely to get you in trouble than anything and it's simply not worth the effort. Certainly not in this case where a 10 min stroll down the road would have surely been preferable to a punch in the face...

[NomadJoe]

"The roads are already gridlocked with tuk tuks!"

Agree, that was my point - how would that get better if all the tuk tuks took to the road at once as baht buses?

I never said that would be only thing that needs to be done. As I and many people, including the Patong police chief have correctly stated, there also needs to be less of them. Many, possibly most of the tuk tuk drivers aren't even fron Phuket, so they can go back home and do something else.

"Most tuk tuks sit idle most of the time"

Agree, see above, see below...

"The rented tuk tuk drivers make no less than 20,000 in the low season and at least 50,000B a month in high season."

So by your own admission the vast majority of tuk tuks sit idle with no fares most of time, by your own admission there are far to many tuk tuks in Patong already; How does this support this fantasy figure that you have come out with? How if they are sitting idle, supply out weighing demand are these tuk tuks bringing in that much profit after paying the majority commission back to the controlling families?

Not a fantasy figure, and not my figure. The firgure was a quote from a driver. It was also echoed in an article where a driver of a private driver was interviewed. He has a lot of negative things to say about the tuk tuk mafia. They obviously make this much because of the high fares. They only need a few fares a day, 3-5 at 400B average, or 1 or 2 a day at a 1000B. You should be able to do that math. A taxi anywhere else in the world, including Bangkok, might have 15-25 fares a shift and still make less.

The tuk tuk drivers I know are struggling to make ends meet, they're not living in "nice, middle class homes", they are living in rented rooms with their entire families, working all hours to provide food and pay the rent. In years past they were doing better, earning commissions from entry to attractions, jewellery purchases etc and fares were less as a result. With the dramatic shift in tourist demographic this has dropped right off as more and more come simply to drink, party and sh@g prostitutes...

Sounds like you are describing Bangkok tuk tuk drivers. I'm talking about Patong/Kata/Karon drivers. It may not be as prifitable in town, as some have reported slightly better fares there, but still, a tuk tuk ride from the Bus station to Kata, 14km, is 500B. Exactly 5 times the price of an air-conditioned Bangkok taxi for that distance. The drinking, partying, shagging tourist describes perfectly the Patong tuk tuk customer demographic.

"Please explain how a baht bus system is going work only work for just the "privileged few" drivers"

Because as we both agree there are far too many tuk tuks in Patong already. Only a small fraction of the existing tuk tuks would be required to operate a baht bus service, that I agree, would be much more efficient and better for tourists. To put this in place 90% of the existing tuk tuks would have to be removed and lose their jobs.

I don't know what you on about. 90%? You just throwing darts now.

"A new tuk tuk is 325k"

Please post details where I can buy a new tuk tuk for 325,000 bt, I know people that would snap them up at that price and are paying considerably more to fix up old ones. This is an honest request for information, I'm not calling you a liar and would really be interested to know where this deal is to be had...

This is the price of the Dihatsu Hijet, one of the types of tuk tuks they use here. Feel free to prove me wrong. Google is your friend. This price does not include licensing and "membership fees" to the co-op, which in Patong alone are reported to be 6m baht a month.

This thread seems to have gone off topic from a fairly innocuous incident involving a tourist that was blatantly pushing his luck and a tuk tuk driver that lost his temper, to a general rant about tuk tuks in Phuket and how expensive and violent they all are. As far as I am concerned, the sentence was fair, the police and courts have done their jobs and contrary to the weight of opinion I think this is a positive sign of a possible clamp down in Patong. I would be happier still if the dreadful place just slid into the ocean never to be seen again, leaving the real Phuket to come out from it's stench into the limelight.

The warning has gone out previously to the tuk tuks. After a previous beating, a headline read something to the effect of "Governer warns Tuk tuks , violence against foriegners will not be tolerated." The previous governer even stepped in ordered bail to be denied to the tuk tuk driver in a previous case nearly identical to this one. So you can understand why those of us that live here and pay attention read that the sentence was suspended after these guys have been warned, we get frustrated. The price for battering a foriegner is 3000B, aparently.

I'm not going to get involved in debating the ills of Phuket's transport system as personally it suits me fine. I drive myself, enjoy a vibrant 2nd hand car market incurring minimal expense for personal transport and use known taxi drivers if I'm out drinking, again at minimal expense. I have no use for tuk tuks which I consider inherently dangerous and, as I have said, a novelty item for tourists. Thais I know here do exactly as I do, and very rarely have any use for the tuk tuks. Yes perhaps this would change if they were cheaper and better run, but there are far more pressing issues than tuk tuks that need attention in my mind.

And no, I don't own a hotel or work in the tourist industry. I'm not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. My bad. Earlier you said office in Phuket town. I thought you said hotel. The tourist industry in Thailand has absolutely no bearing on my income and personally I prefer low season here, when most of the idiots this place seems to attract are not here!

I appreciate that tuk tuk prices and behaviour affect everyone differently and I am fortunate in that for me, they are a total irrelevance in everyday life. I understand what many are saying but would like all to understand that getting angry with the tuk tuk drivers will do nothing to change the situation, they are pawns in the system and are just doing a job. Shouting at them and arguing over small amounts of money is more likely to get you in trouble than anything and it's simply not worth the effort. Certainly not in this case where a 10 min stroll down the road would have surely been preferable to a punch in the face...

RE Your blue highlighted comments. This is the the common, natural death of the thread. You are indeed lucky that the tuk tuk's and Phukets overall transport problems don't appear to be personally an issue of you. That is always the situtation with posters that express the position you have. The supposition that because they aren't an issue for you, they must not be an issue for anyone else is very centristic and quote honestly very selfish. How nice that you don't rely on tourism. You are in the minority. Most of us foriegners that work here do rely on it. I don't use them either unless I have no other choice.

[sausageandmash]

There shouldn't be six people in a Tuk-tuk, let alone ten!