Vegetables With A Dangerously High Level Of Pesticide Sold At High-End Markets: Bangkok

[femi fan]

" . . drooling, headache, nausea, dizziness, vomiting, abdominal muscle cramps and loss of coordination . . "

Sounds a lot like the warnings they put on the ads for meds sold on American tv

Right. Meds sold in a regulated environment with clear labels as required by law and which normally must be prescribed by a doctor.

Right. Such meds are america's third biggest killer. Prescribed by doctors. Made by corporations making billions of dollars of profits. Ill-health is very profitable indeed.

[apetley]

I always knew that siam paragon supermarket does not have an honest business ethic when it comes to vegetables.

I really don't trust their labelling of vegetables, (i never have). they ALWAYS re-label dates on vegetables (after the first label has expired) - you can see multiple date changes if you scrutinise labels carefully).

Also: you can EASILY see in many cases that many products in paragon are labelled as organic, but they are definitely not! i found out from the ministry of Agriculture (at the bkk food expo) that ALL organic certifications MUST bare a certification number together with the organic symbol.

if you check produce in Paragon you will often see they just stick an Organic Sticker on their veggies to sell them at a higher price, (but there is no certification number on these vegetable packets). so it contradicts the ministry of agricultures codes of practice.

all organic stickers should be together with a certification number under the organic logo.

about street veggies and tesco lotus and non-organic vegetables, its even worse... there is only a few schemes in thaialnd.. (the Q - Quality scheme, and HCAAP and GAP.

GAP and HCAAP are similar. (they let veggeis stand for a period of time to allow some of the chemicals to dissipate . though you have to TRUST that the farms adhere to this code of practice.

and, "Q" does not mean organic!! (many people seem to think so) but its far from it.

there is not much refereeing and checking of farms and products in thailand.

-try to buy chemical testing kits... or even water testing kits... (its hard to find in thailand),,

farms are checked only once a year.. and they are WARNED long in advance of the upcoming check. so it gives the farms plenty of time to cover-up or hide any issues.

a person that I know is married to a thai family that owns a large farm around chiang mai. he told me that MANY organic farms in thailand will have a real organic farm, but they buy LOADS of non-organic vegetables which they repackage and re-sell in the stores (using their organic farm certificate).

he says he knows a few farms around chiang mai that do this. (but i dont know which ones). and 'reckons' that this is common practice in thaialnd.

the only way to prove it is by self-testing food yourself. (but as I said earlier) its so hard to find any chemical testing kits in thailand!

i am happy to 'go the distance' and help with some sort of complete testing of many vegetables,,, but i would need some knowledgeable farming people to advice me along the way.

anyone (preferably in bkk) that wants to find out if the vegetables we are having are hazzardous, or if organic is real or not, then people send me a message.

thanks

Personally I do not trust anything labelled as organic here.

Last year wifey attended a health seminar.

She got talking to a lady there who ran a large farm and was not shy in telling my wife how easy it was to cheat the inspectors and pass off chemically produced food as organic.

She also said that she was forwarned of upcoming visits by inspectors.

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[Thai at Heart]

Thailand if one of the centres of the worlds food production with dominant players in rice and chicken. Half the worlds s staple diet. CP and others are at the very centre of this.

Don't criticise the rest of the worlds problems when they actually have a massive control system in place. In any chicken slaughterhouse on any day they are viscerating chicken someone from the fda us present for cleanliness. Does Thailand have any similar regulation?

tesco and cp have a massive business connection for chicken exports, if there is any fault on the quality of chicken in tesco frozen meals it sits in Thailand

You seem to be defending the developed world's food inspection regime. One wonders whether you are serious.

The bit about the US Food and Drug Administration (I think this is what is referred to above) having an inspector in every plant is worth a second look, since it has recently become the subject of contentious debate. A new rule will allow lines to process 175 chickens per minute, while privatizing much of the inspection process (turning it over to the corporate producer). The group Food and Water Watch says:

... it is designed to privatize inspection by turning critical inspection functions over to poultry company employees and reduce the number of government inspectors assigned to the slaughter facilities.

...line speeds will be allowed to increase to 175 birds per minute in all poultry slaughter facilities under the proposed rule. Proper inspection cannot occur at these excessive line speeds whether conducted by a trained USDA inspector or a company employee. The agency readily admits that the poultry industry will stand to earn an additional $260 million per year by removing the cap on line speeds. The agency believes that the use of a chemical cocktail at the end of the slaughter process is enough to deal with any food safety issues that might be missed by company employees or the one USDA inspector assigned to the slaughter line. This proposed rule furthers the industrialization of the food supply and needs to be rejected.

http://www.huffingto..._b_1431619.html

Between fiscal 2004 and 2008, the Food and Drug Administration inspected fewer than half of the 51,229 facilities that it regulates, the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services said.

... "If the FDA does not routinely inspect food facilities, it is unable to guarantee that these facilities are complying with applicable laws and regulations," the inspector general reported.

http://www.washingto...0040604251.html

A Texas legal firm advertises:

A recent report reveals that less than 25% of FDA-regulated food plants were inspected annually, and more than half of the plants were not inspected at all, during a five year period from 2004 through 2008. Inspections at plants considered high risk also dropped off. At the same time, consumers were seriously injured and even died from tainted peanut butter, vegetables and other food products.

Like many government agencies, the FDA is stretched thin, having experienced a staff decrease of 18% since 2003. Fortunately for consumers, Congress has recently authorized filling a number of vacant positions. However, even after these additions, the FDA will still have 145 fewer inspectors on staff than it did in 2004.

http://www.txinjuryb...lly-inadequate/

"tesco and cp have a massive business connection for chicken exports, if there is any fault on the quality of chicken in tesco frozen meals it sits in Thailand" -- Again, do you really think this is a practical approach? If Tesco food made people ill, do you think a court of law would accept that it was really the fault of producers in another country?

There is a food safety inspection system here for exports to UK for a new supplier involves initial inspection, report recommendations and a grade. Grade 1 inspect once per year, grade 4 no export and 2 and 3 in the middle with more frequent inspections and must do better recommendations.

This is completely independent of Thai fda. you reckon the that fda is going to write up CP?

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand if one of the centres of the worlds food production with dominant players in rice and chicken. Half the worlds s staple diet. CP and others are at the very centre of this.

Don't criticise the rest of the worlds problems when they actually have a massive control system in place. In any chicken slaughterhouse on any day they are viscerating chicken someone from the fda us present for cleanliness. Does Thailand have any similar regulation?

tesco and cp have a massive business connection for chicken exports, if there is any fault on the quality of chicken in tesco frozen meals it sits in Thailand

That 'massive control system' you talk of is a joke then. Just look at the health of western citizens, and the shape and size they have become since the mid-70s. And look at the massive rise in diabetes and cancer and heart attacks and other fatal diseases.

Mad cow disease, frequent salmonella outbreaks from eggs which you have to cook thoroughly in order to avoid getting such illnesses, chickens that are fed hormones to make them grow quicker and bigger to make more profit but which then need antibiotics to cure them of the illnesses they get from humans' feeding them shit.

Cattle that are nominally 'cows' but more accurately meat producing organisms which are kept in filthy conditions and fed lots of unnatural food including gm corn and other stuff. Vegetables pumped full of chemicals, irradiated so they last ages on the shelves, totally tasteless. Processed foods full of salt sugar fat and es and all manner of things like hfcs, msg, aspartame etc etc.

The controls you talk of are very very dangerous to human health, and this post would be very long if i continued to give examples.

I'm afraid you labour under the illusion that western nations have safe food supply. You just could not be so wrong. As for buying frozen chicken that was kept in diabolical living conditions in tescos, well, you are open to any number of health problems.

A huge amount of the poor chickens you allude to are produced here. My etudes cousin manages for cp in Myanmar. These are truly gargantuan operations with daily production figures of chickens it is hard to fathom. Am off to another factory this pm that prepares fried and deep frozen chicken for export, 5000 workers producing God knows how much chicken pet say, but it is in the 100s of thousands of pieces.

[BarryM]

The main problem I find in Thailand is the poor quality of food, especially poultry.

In the uk I can easily buy good quality organic produce and my local butcher will literally know the name of the cow whose sirloin I'm carving up.

Yes, most uk food is mass produced, cheap rubbish. But quality food from known suppliers is easy to come by. In Thailand its impossible

Most western orientated supermarkets in pattaya change use by labels on food. I've even seen assistants cleaning off labels with acetone and then adding a sticker.

Many retirees in the uk buy supermarket food that is close to its sell or use by date at massive discount. in Thailand they simply falsely relabel and hold out for the full price

[chooka]

Yikes! For this reason I don't support my local neighbourhood market. Shopping at Tescos is marginally safer hopefully, even the expensive luxury supermarkets and delis don't seem to escape this.

Very good reason to be a carnivore and not a herbivore. Stick to the cheeseburgers without the rabbit food and you should survive here.

[telldem]

You're supposed to wash your veggies thoroughly before eating them.

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Edited July 14, 2012 by Scott
formatting

[femi fan]

The main problem I find in Thailand is the poor quality of food, especially poultry.

In the uk I can easily buy good quality organic produce and my local butcher will literally know the name of the cow whose sirloin I'm carving up.

Yes, most uk food is mass produced, cheap rubbish. But quality food from known suppliers is easy to come by. In Thailand its impossible

Most western orientated supermarkets in pattaya change use by labels on food. I've even seen assistants cleaning off labels with acetone and then adding a sticker.

Many retirees in the uk buy supermarket food that is close to its sell or use by date at massive discount. in Thailand they simply falsely relabel and hold out for the full price

The quality of food in thailand today is not as good as it was a few years ago. But comparing it like for like in the uk or australia, far higher quality here in thailand.

Quality food from known suppliers is easy to come by here in chiang mai. So, no, not 'impossible' in thailand. You have a misperception.

Western-oriented supermarkets, if like western supermarkets, have so many dangerous foods for your health on their shelves they should carry a government health warning.

You talk about your experiences in pattaya with false labeling and convert this into a fact for the whole nation.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been removed.

[twix38]

there's some rubbish written.

Clearly if you read any newspaper. Take the Bangkok Post etc then it is apparent in story and editorial that the Thais in the know are worried about what is done here and banned in other countries. Pesticides are used here that are proven cancer causing and banned largely elsewhere. It takes many years for the toxic levels to build up and can be the underlying reason for unexplained deaths from Cancers and other untraceable problems. Those who never smoked, don't drink alcohol and live a healthy life, getting Liver cancer (friend's Thai wife in late 40's may be an example/may not).

There are 4 products banned that are used here and vested interests want to maintain this.

Foreign countries have warned about the danger to Thai public of contaminated fruit and veg fed to the local population that would never be allowed in their own country. Banned for export It is then given to the locals. Make no mistake using proven carcinogenic chemicals has a long term effect on one's health!

P.S. Western supermarkets have many dangerous products, but by and large you can choose to avoid them. Not knowing if basic food stuffs like fruit and Veg has cancer causing pesticides on/in it, is a crime of incomparable comparison. Washing means scrubbing individually to remove or buying cleaning agents and what about restaurant meals/salads/deserts - you will be eating pesticides for sure!!!

This issue needs to be addressed at the source and these particular 4 pesticides banned, just as they are in countries that take food security a bit more seriously for their populations and NOT like China or Thailand!! We are in the wrong division and there is no excuse. If the health consequencies of these pesticides showed up in weeks/months instead of many years and/or could be directly associated there would be an outcry so loud it would devastate those in charge of food security, but because it takes many years and cannot be directly attributed and proven that a cancer was caused by a toxic slow build up of pesticides it is allowed to continue and probably contributes to many early deaths.

Edited July 15, 2012 by twix38

[haybilly]

"The other day i left home and came back 3 weeks later."

I love this quote.

Where does time go these days?

[xenophon]

"The foundation tested vegetables from 14 supermarkets" and little detail given

Dreadfully timid reporting:

These supermarkets were ..... ? and results were per supermarket were .........?

[Thongkorn]

The UK stopped a lot of fresh veg a few months ago, for the same reason.Now the veg has gone up in price some what, also they where looking at the prawns and crayfish.because they where using some chemicals to enhance growth..

[thaimat]

This should not surprise anyone. Wasn't it just a year+ ago that containers of vegetables from Thailand were tested in England, and found to have very dangerous levels of many pesticides, so the English banned Thai vegetables? Makro now has labels for organic grown, called chemical free. The label is right on the shelf's price tag. Way to go Makro!!!!! I watched a neighboring farmer spray massive amounts of pesticides on his marigolds, for sale to put in peoples cars for Buddha. We warned him that hes was poisoning his customers, and himself by his daily spraying, even arranged for government agriculture men come to explain to him as well. he didn't listen-he died painfully less than a year later, mid-thirties, his body's functions just stopping, organs quitting. The concept that insect poison can also kill humans is just lost here.

[mistitikimikis]

This should not surprise anyone. Wasn't it just a year+ ago that containers of vegetables from Thailand were tested in England, and found to have very dangerous levels of many pesticides, so the English banned Thai vegetables? Makro now has labels for organic grown, called chemical free. The label is right on the shelf's price tag. Way to go Makro!!!!! I watched a neighboring farmer spray massive amounts of pesticides on his marigolds, for sale to put in peoples cars for Buddha. We warned him that hes was poisoning his customers, and himself by his daily spraying, even arranged for government agriculture men come to explain to him as well. he didn't listen-he died painfully less than a year later, mid-thirties, his body's functions just stopping, organs quitting. The concept that insect poison can also kill humans is just lost here.

[cooked]

This should not surprise anyone. Wasn't it just a year+ ago that containers of vegetables from Thailand were tested in England, and found to have very dangerous levels of many pesticides, so the English banned Thai vegetables? Makro now has labels for organic grown, called chemical free. The label is right on the shelf's price tag. Way to go Makro!!!!! I watched a neighboring farmer spray massive amounts of pesticides on his marigolds, for sale to put in peoples cars for Buddha. We warned him that hes was poisoning his customers, and himself by his daily spraying, even arranged for government agriculture men come to explain to him as well. he didn't listen-he died painfully less than a year later, mid-thirties, his body's functions just stopping, organs quitting. The concept that insect poison can also kill humans is just lost here.

'chemical free'? Sounds like 'up to 99% economies' and similar expressions. I don't think that chemical free means the same thing as no chemicals.

[chuang]

'chemical free'? Sounds like 'up to 99% economies' and similar expressions. I don't think that chemical free means the same thing as no chemicals.

It means NO ADDED chemicals...

[cooked]

'chemical free'? Sounds like 'up to 99% economies' and similar expressions. I don't think that chemical free means the same thing as no chemicals.

It means NO ADDED chemicals...

no it doesn't. Why don't they say 'no chemicals'? They can't say that because chemicals are being absorbed, transformed and produced by every being that lives, breathes and goes for a shit. So if you accept natural chemical substances, where is the boundary with artificial substances? If you think that expressions like this mean anything in the modern world, and especially in Thailand (maybe you don't) then maybe you should get out a little more. No disrespect meant.

[thaimat]

'chemical free'? Sounds like 'up to 99% economies' and similar expressions. I don't think that chemical free means the same thing as no chemicals.

It means NO ADDED chemicals...

no it doesn't. Why don't they say 'no chemicals'? They can't say that because chemicals are being absorbed, transformed and produced by every being that lives, breathes and goes for a shit. So if you accept natural chemical substances, where is the boundary with artificial substances? If you think that expressions like this mean anything in the modern world, and especially in Thailand (maybe you don't) then maybe you should get out a little more. No disrespect meant.

All that is important is whether any poisons, or substances toxic to humans, are added to the soil, or to the plants. There are fertilizers that are man made, so could be considered chemicals, but have no harmful effects on human, or other life.

[chooka]

"The foundation tested vegetables from 14 supermarkets" and little detail given

Dreadfully timid reporting:

These supermarkets were ..... ? and results were per supermarket were .........?

Owned and operated by influencial people.