Falang In Udon Thani Jail.... Can Anyone Confirm?

[KaronSteve]

The following is from Dan a US Embassy Warden whois helping on Will's behalf.

I'm very impressed with the high level of support and concern expressed by this forum for Will. Yes, it's a pity that his plight was not known more in advance. I'd like to address the next steps to be taken on his behalf.

Assuming he is now in Bkk IDC, it falls primarily on his embassy to provide support. I frankly don't know how the IDC works, and whether his friends have access to him or not. Help me out here.

Also, could someone please comment on what it means procedurally to be moved to the Bkk IDC? I mean, has an Immigration Big passed a deportation sentence on him? Is it certain that he will eventually be deported and not allowed re-entry to Thai society? Pls educate me on this.

If he's to be deported eventually, then let it be asap. Perhaps we can assist...

His embassy will be trying to contact his family to solicit funds to repatriate him. Now suppose for his own reasons Will is reluctant to provide information on them? I read early on in this thread that someone somewhere has contact with someone else [...] who has his family contacts. Would it help Will's case to get the family contacts on his behalf and pass them on to the embassy, so they could get his case moving faster (even though maybe he didn't want to bother his relatives) ?? Food for thought and discussion.

An embassy formality: the Privacy Act, dating from 9/11. I whisper silently, "Only in the USA..." They will ask Will to sign a Privacy Waiver naming people (family, friends) to whom the embassy can give his particulars. Otherwise, they will clam up on a request for info and give no details on him. Should we ask them to include the name of one of his friends here on the waiver? Should I ask them to include my name as his warden?

If the embassy cannot get the funds from family or friends for the air ticket, they will ask him to sign a promissory note for a loan to get him back to the US. At departure, they will take his passport and give him a temporary 4-day passport. He will not be granted another passport until the loan is repaid (as mentioned earlier in the thread).

The embassy will also arrange for him to be met on arrival by a representative of a local support organization (ngo or not, it depends). IMPORTANT: If he is a vet, they will arrange for support by the VA, even an ambulance at the airport, if nec. Does anyone know if he is a veteran?

I just heard from the embassy weekend duty officer: "> I will place some followup calls to determine the status of Mr. Underburg's situation but, due to the Privacy Act, I cannot release any information without his express written permission." ----> You see? Just saying... I asked in reply if we could get some of our names on the waiver come Monday. (I think addresses are needed, too.

Will'l need a mobile phone and a charger once in BKK IDC.

He can then be sent phone credits from anyone on the outside with the same (or any other?) Thai mobile phone service provider which he can then barter for food, water and so on.

I did if for someone in a similar predicament in BKK IDC some years ago.

After the above were posted another guy posted that Will had phoned a friend in Udon and that he was in Bangkok. The connection was bad and attempts to call him back have failed so far.

Has anybody on here got friends in Bangkok who can go to the Immigration jail and see Willard?

[jaideeguy]

Yea, Steve I'm confused about Will's wherabouts. I told you that my wife heard from the Ubon Immigration that he had already been transfered to BKK and she feels it was true because she had to wait while the officer looked his case up on the computer.

Anyway, this morning [saturday] I called the US Consulate and spoke with the sympathetic weekend duty officer [Leonore Nash], as the Thai person with the unpronouncable name was not in and pleaded Will's case and made it clear that he was in need of meds. The best she could do was say that she would pass the info on to the week day staff on Monday.

Meanwhile, Hawaii people are waiting to hear from the Consulate and trying to track down other possible relatives to help. It seems that he may have some relatives in Florida or North Carolina.

If anyone up in Ubon has any info on Will's US friends or relatives, then please inform us via this forum or the Udon forum

It's a pitty that we didn't get on Will's case earlier.....maybe in his confused state, he didn't know what to do?? but he might be free if he had acted earlier. FREE WILLY!!

I'm looking forward to his release, as this has been a time consuming project for all of us as well as the hell that he must be suffering.

So, we get the weekend off and I'll try to call BKK Monday morning.

I'll copy and paste this on my thaivisa post.

Aloha,

[KaronSteve]

Posted 15.06

"I have spoken to Will's ACS case officer.

He assures me that he has had personal face-to-face contact with Will over the past month, and that "everything possible is being done to assist him". That last bit is quoted to respect the US Privacy Act, but I learned that since Will is now in Bkk, things will be moving far faster than we could have hoped for.

The meds or lack thereof is NOT an issue.

He will definitely be deported as soon as funding his ticket home can be arranged.

ACS has his family contacts but they are so far unresponsive.

Will has signed a privacy waiver naming "all his friends" who can be informed of his situation. The case officer invites "all his friends" to phone him as early as 06:00 Monday at ACS 02-205-4049, and he will be happy to discuss the case freely with more detail than I could provide in this post.

He asked that I not post his name on the internet, but asking for Mr. Willard Underburg's case officer would be sufficient.

Regards Dan ACS Officer"

Jaidee it might be worth you calling this case officer and getting on the list and also pass on any information you have about relatives and friends."

It appears he is only a plane ticket away from going home.

It also seems the his Case Officer has known about him for a month!

Edited August 25, 2012 by KaronSteve

[KaronSteve]

Jaidee can you get on to your brother soonest and find out if the concerned person will spring for an air ticket?

I have asked Dave how much and who/where does the money go and will let you know as soon as I can

Take care

[KaronSteve]

Jaidee I don't know if you are following Willard's thread on Udon Talk but on it people on there are saying that he was reported to Immigration by other westerners.

2 to 3 men are suspected and one business owner who had a visit from Immigration to check his passport and business papers got the names of these guys. Apparently they get a percentage of the fines imposed.

When they are finally revealed I truly believe they will get what they deserve. Scum!

[Rumpole]

Thailand red in tooth and claw.

[ALFREDO]

-ITGabs-

That means, be suspicious of any Falangs hidden activities who is teaching in Thailand and of course of any Thai who is teaching in Thailand to!

A big pool!

Everybody could be a molesterer. No, -ITGabs-? Who knows the truth, can look inside somebody?

[kimamey]

You may want to get your money back from your lawyer....the Alien Work Act states (in plain english)...

“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality;

“Work” means engaging in work by exerting energy or using

knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits;

If you are performing "work" you either need a work permit or apply for permission from the Department of Employment. As a self employed you are/were required to set up your own company and follow all the red tape that entails. Some changes are/were supposedly happening allowing a person to be self employed (or hired by someone to perform work in Thailand but holding a business outside of Thailand) but do not know a what stage this may be taking place.

I've seen this definition before and it's worded in such a way that it would be difficult not to contravene the word of the law. I can see what they're trying to do, encompass manual and intellectual work and at the same time trying to cover the loopholes that might allow payment other than monetary.

It may be just bad translation of course but defining "work" by using the same word means you end up going in circles. If the definition of "work" is "exerting energy or using knowledge" then I work every time I get out of bed. As soon as I open my mouth and talk I'm using my knowledge. If someone asks "Where do you come from?" "England". Where in England?" "Southampton. It's on the south coast about 130 kms from London." I learn more about Thai language and Thailand every time I talk to a Thai so I assume the reverse also happens. I think in the end it's just down to how the law is interpreted.

Sorry forgot to mention. I hope this guy gets out soon. It seems like it may be at least partly his own fault but the consequences seem severe and of course there's always someone making money out of it.

Edited August 25, 2012 by kimamey

[DrTuner]

The aliens act states the punishment for working without a work permit clearly.

An alien working without a work permit is subject to imprisonment for a period of up to five years and/or a fine from 2,000 baht to 100,000 baht. If an alien accused of working without a work permit agrees to leave Thailand within 30 days, he may settle the matter with only a fine. An alien with a work permit failing to comply with certain provisions of the Alien Working Act is subject to a fine of up to 10,000 baht. An employer hiring an alien without a work permit is subject to a fine from 10,000 baht to 100,000 baht per alien, and an employer hiring an alien outside the scope of his work permit is subject to a fine of up to 10,000 baht per alien.

So, agree to leave Thailand within 30 days and cash should settle it.

[KaronSteve]

The latest post...

"I know Will ( Willard Underburg the third ) through two professions here in Thailand ....

1. I'm a government teacher

2. I assist the Tourist Police as a volunteer ... NO I'm NOT a Police officer! (dealt with him a couple of times)

Nice guy, very well educated, very intelligent but has a few personal issues .....

Now, this is what I can make out what has happened over the last 2mnths BUT I can not substanciate this with facts!

I can only tell you what I've concluded through what I've heard from the Police and "Chinese whispers" ......

Will was probably arrested the first time due to an altercation at his place of work (school) with a Thai national (parent) resulting with criminal damage (by Will) to the said Thai nationals car (this was witnessed).....

The said Thai national is VERY well connected in Udon ... Hence the 1mnth jail sentance (they threw the book at him!!)....

Now .... Wiills' work permit would have been cancelled due to this altercation (losing his job) POSSIBLY resulting with the cancellation of his visa (if the visa was issued on the basis of the work permit .. NO work ... No visa!! ... as soon as you lose your job you're on an overstay of 500bht/day ... SAME DAY!)... Hence the 2nd arrest when he was released from prison on a visa issue NOT a work permit issue ... He ended up in the Udon Thani Police station cells until he was transferred to Nong Khai Immigration awaiting deportation and today/yesterday was transported to BKK immigration holding cells awaiting re-patronisation back to the US of A/deportation ...Somebody had it in for him BUT I don't think it was a farang!

He might of well got a red stamp in his passport (from court) refusing him entry back to Thailand from 1 to 3yrs depending on the outcome of the 1st offence he was jailed for ... (depends how well conected the complaintent is ...) ... If can apply for a new passport and visa he can come straight back! (new passport ... new identity number which has no previous records relating to the original/offending passport number!)

From what I understand, this issue has NOTHING to do with the private language school that was raided by immigration 2mnths ago ....

To reiterate (sounds a tad like Khun Paul now)

These are RUMOURS/CHINESE WHISPERS that I've heard and come to my own conclusion .... They seem to fit the bill BUT each to their own .... It ain't gospel!!"

[jaideeguy]

The latest word from my brother in Hawaii, who knows the person who has offered to bail Will out says that she knows little about Will's relatives......seems that he was a loner there too. She did state that she would prefer that he be returned to the mainland and not Hawaii, but US consulate implied that they need a destination [and maybe a contact] before they release him.

It may simplify things if anyone could come up with that info. I think the consulate is working on that angle too, but maybe one of his few Udon friends might have some info?? can anyone access his residence to see if he left any of that info.....or maybe get a password for his email and see if there is any info there?? .....just suggestions as a last ditch attempt.

Maybe a flood of concerned friends of Will to the consulate would keep the pressure on??

And re: 'having a WP as a requirement to teach' would not weed out pedophiles, as none but the best schools do background checks and I know of people working as teachers on false TEFL diplomas.

Also, this year, the Thai public govmt schools started a program to hire teachers and waive the WP and TEFL requirements and I was offered a position teaching [for a pittance] in our local moo baan school.

[Sharp]

Any kind of work without a work permit is illegal.

Remember one thing. One does not go to jail for breaking the law, but for getting caught.

No that is not entirely correct. You only need a work permit if you are working for someone.or for a company etc.

You can not get a work permit unless you are working for a company or someone.

If you are self-employed, say like a consultant, you do not need a work permit.

I have discussed this at length with my lawyer and with the local labour departmentt in my city when a friend of mind starting working from his house for an overseas company via the internet.

Flat out wrong don't post info that will get people into trouble! !!!!

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect App

[harrry]

I am posting this to say that I am pleasantly surprised by the interest and work aparently done by the US warden in this case. I hope he does not end up getting hauled over the coals by his superiors for this. THis is how a country should treat its citizens abroad who are in trouble. Whatever has hapened more can be done when he returns home to fix him and possibly recover costs involved than by leaving him to rot here.

Edited August 26, 2012 by harrry

[KaronSteve]

I am posting this to say that I am pleasantly surprised by the interest and work aparently done by the US warden in this case. I hope he does not end up getting hauled over the coals by his superiors for this. THis is how a country should treat its citizens abroad who are in trouble. Whatever has hapened more can be done when he returns home to fix him and possibly recover costs involved than by leaving him to rot here.

The following is a thread the US Warden has started.

"US expats may not know ("or care" is legitimate, too) of the presence of warden volunteers working to provide "eyes and ears" for ACS (American Citizen Service) at the US embassy.

Our charge is to get to know the US expat community in order to provide support should the need arise. Our support is usually in the form of contacting ACS so they can get involved. I am glad to have been asked recently to support a forum member, because I then joined this venue and have registered my mobile number with RALPHCUZENS to be immediately available.

There are seven wardens now in Udon. Five are VFW members (US Veterans of Foreign Wars), so if you are a member, you probably know who they are. I have invited them to introduce themselves here. By contacting me, however, I can call one of them if I cannot respond. You can also meet us at the tri-annual ACS Outreach visits when the officers are in town to provide consular and notarial services (income letters).

There are wardens in many US-expat populated areas, including two in Khon Kaen. Drop me an email or PM if you'd like to contact a warden.

Please help me help our US expat community: if you hear of an expat being admitted to hospital, being arrested, or in need of financial assistance to get back home stateside, let me know. This would include a bus accident out on the highway or an incident at the airport.

Anyone you know have a heart attack or stroke and try to brave it out at home without seeing a doctor? Tell me, please! I got such a call about a guy out in the boonies. I took my Thai-nurse wife along to see him. She took one look at him and whispered that he would die that night without hospitalization. Nine months later he's much better although still somewhat paralyzed on one side. He's enjoying wheeling himself around the garden in a wheelchair provided free by ACS.

Best of all, ACS and SSA/Manila worked to get him on SSA Disability with a benefit of 54,000 baht/mo. For this he needed an SSA medical exam in Bkk because the specialist at Udon govt hospital has the knife out for farangs, esp for those meddling US embassy people, including me. (The basic reason? Farang aren't in the Thai system. No 200-baht per signature on his order form.) Well, when ACS realized he couldn't/wouldn't do the SSA exam, the embassy paid for a fully medically equipped ambulance with attending personnel to convey him door-to-door to a hospital in Bkk, roundtrip.

Ok, along this same theme for those of us not aware, let's mention visas for any expat who's paralyzed and has no income, etc. The BIB are not about to place a guy out in the middle of the Lao bridge and wish him luck. In my friend's case, although he has less than 65,000B/mo and no savings, they grant him a visa every 90 days for 2,000B. (I advised the wife not to complain about the extra 100B.) He must also provide a photo of himself in bed, a letter from him stating that he is paralyzed but taken care of by his wife, the usual map, and a recent letter from his doctor and stamped by the hospital confirming his condition. Hope this helps someone disabled and planning to just hide out with no visa.

To end this rant, the wardens are also invited to call in any local security issues like troop call-up's, community problems arising from foreigners (mafia), cross-border fraud and document forgery, whatever. The US embassy security people are in close contact with their counterparts in other embassies as well as with the Thai authorities. Problems with how the BIB are handling refugees from Yangoon, North Korea, or Lao? Please let me know. [North Korea ---> China ---> Lao ---> Mekong]"

http://www.udontalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9850#p158966

[KaronSteve]

From Dan the Warden

"By the way, in my 2010 documentation there is mention of an 800 baht escort and transport fee to the airport. (I know. Let's grin and bear it, folks...)

I will also ask if ACS will advise Will on his support options upon arrival. And yes, there are various federal medicaid and food stamp programs available.

As for an estimate on repatriation: if all sources of funding are exhausted, a promissory note will be suggested to Will. I am told that Will's case is not a difficult one, and that repatriation should proceed quickly once the funding is resolved."

Jaidee did the lady in Hawaii say if she was prepared to send any money to help Will? It seems that as soon as the money is made available WIll will be on a plane.

I bet you regret typing that "FREE WILLY" in your post....555

Harry I think that Dan is also using this as a way of getting ACS known so I doubt very much if he will be in trouble. He has provided Udon Talk with phone numbers, e-mail addresses etc. that can be used in cases of US citizens finding themselves in difficulty.

As a Brit I wish our Embassy had something similar.....

The best Embassy I have seen in action was the Irish. A situation arose in Phuket and as most of the Irish Consular staff were tied up with post Tsunami work they flew a guy up from Kuala Lumpur who took care of the problem in days.

Whenever I come to this thread Google puts these ads at the top....Jail phone......Jail.....Meet Thai Women...555

[manxninja]

If people are so concerned for the fella. Just pay the freaking ticket for his its not going to be more than a grand.

No work permit and criminal damage to a thais property and people wonder why they banged him up.

I hope he doesnt have to spend much more time in prison as what he has done is not a great crime but.......

This is not the USA , the rules change as soon as you pass thai immigration.

[jaideeguy]

Can anyone suggest any way to get some cash to Willard for his basic comfort expenses in a safe, legal and trustworthy way?? Would the caseworker at the US Embassy be able to do that?? I will pledge 1,000thb and transfer to to him if it is doable..

[jaideeguy]

Monday morning update on Willard...

I spoke with two officers that are on Will's case and the 2nd one gave me some encouraging information that they were actively trying to contact family members in the US and if they don't have any luck contacting anyone to 'accept' him, the other option would be to place him in a shelter, but that may take a couple of weeks to arrange.

The officer revealed a few more details, but requested that they/we need to respect Will's privacy and that they are doing everything in their power to get him released ASAP.

I also offered to transfer some small baht for Will's pocket money and he said that he would inquire about Will's bank account and if he has an ATM card and get info to me by phone or email. Maybe others might want to send a few baht to make life easier there in his cell.

that's all for now.....

Steve, maybe you could copy this onto the Udon forum??

[siampreggers]

Thanks for the link and info Steve....after reading the posts, it seems that he was a bit of a loner and I just heard from my brother in Hawaii that didn't have much family or enough to care about his situation. I don't even know the guy, but would be willing to donate a few $$ for his 'ransom' from immigration.

I'll ask my Thai wife to call them tomorrow and find out if there is a $$ number on getting him released and maybe it would be cheaper if he could go to another closer country....Cambodia, Laos or ??

Anyway, shame to hear that immigration can get you so easily for a victimless crime like teaching.

Interesting viewpoint - so you are suggesting no teacher should have a WP ?

Foreign Employment Act

Working of Aliens Act, B.E. 2521 (1978) states:

Section 4. This Act does not apply to performance of specific duty by aliens in the Kingdom in the following capacities:

(1) as members of a diplomatic mission;

(2) as members of a consular mission;

(3) as representatives of member countries and officials of the United Nations and specialized institutions;

(4) as personal servants coming from foreign countries to work regularly for persons in (1) or (2) or (3);

(5) as persons who perform duty or mission under an agreement concluded between the Government of Thailand and foreign Governments or international organizations;

(6) as persons who perform duty or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

(7) as persons permitted by the Government of Thailand to enter and perform any duty or mission.

ie. Aliens who perform a duty for the benefit of education are exempt from Work Permit requirements under the Foreign Employment Act.

Do people here consider teaching as 'a duty for the benefit of education'?

Edited August 27, 2012 by siampreggers

[Mario2008]

He is currently in immigration detention till he is being expelled. Thailand has the rule that one has to pay for the plane ticket out of the country by yourself, you stay in immigraiton detetention till you have brought the plane ticket out of the country. And not just any country, but a country that cannot deny you entry, so in his case the US or US territory. A neighbouring country will not do.

[Mario2008]

Do people here consider teaching as 'a duty for the benefit of education'?

No, the quote you refer to is more for people participating in an academic contest, the ASEAN games, etc after being exampt by royal decree.

Teachers require a work permit just as anybody else.

[siampreggers]

Do people here consider teaching as 'a duty for the benefit of education'?

No, the quote you refer to is more for people participating in an academic contest, the ASEAN games, etc after being exampt by royal decree.

Teachers require a work permit just as anybody else.

Under what ruling is it 'more for .....'?

It's quite a clear statement of ruling that includes nothing, not even a hint of your comment.

[Mario2008]

It is simply the based on what the article is used for and that teachers are not exempt from a need to have a work permit. Key word is "duty", which is to perform a function and different from the word "work".

Another important point is that it states that there must be a royal decree to be exempt, which there isn't for teachers.

[siampreggers]

It is simply the based on what the article is used for and that teachers are not exempt from a need to have a work permit. Key word is "duty", which is to perform a function and different from the word "work".

I think you'll find that the duty of teachers, under contract, is clearly stated as being educationally based. Most contract would begin 'The duty of the teacher is to....'. These duties are usually to prepare/produce educational materials and give a set number of lessons per week/month.

These duties are clearly for the 'benefit of education'.

What word is used in the Thai Version? Is it หน้าที่

Another important point is that it states that there must be a royal decree to be exempt, which there isn't for teachers.

It doesn't state that I'm afraid.

The need for a 'Royal decree' is for the 'other activities', not the ones listed.

(6) as persons who perform duty or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

[bdenner]

So just to clear some questions. Been following this thread as it is close to home.

Does teaching (I use the term loosely) on a voluntary bases eg. Education department sponsored School English Camps, without remuneration, require a work permit? I have participated and received a 'Thank You' Certificate from the Provincial Education Minister for doing such a thing only to be informed I may have been acting illegally?

I seem to recall some volunteers helping with the Phuket tsunami disaster were also prosecuted.

[harrry]

It is simply the based on what the article is used for and that teachers are not exempt from a need to have a work permit. Key word is "duty", which is to perform a function and different from the word "work".

I think you'll find that the duty of teachers, under contract, is clearly stated as being educationally based. Most contract would begin 'The duty of the teacher is to....'. These duties are usually to prepare/produce educational materials and give a set number of lessons per week/month.

These duties are clearly for the 'benefit of education'.

What word is used in the Thai Version? Is it หน้าที่

Another important point is that it states that there must be a royal decree to be exempt, which there isn't for teachers.

It doesn't state that I'm afraid.

The need for a 'Royal decree' is for the 'other activities', not the ones listed.

(6) as persons who perform duty or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

Simple solution. If you do not consider the answer from Mario as correct despite many years of experience just get a job as a teacher and then go and tell the work permit and immigration people you do not need one because of it.

You can then enjoy the pleasures of fish head soup at Thai expense while you wait to return to your home country.

[siampreggers]

I seem to recall some volunteers helping with the Phuket tsunami disaster were also prosecuted.

Incorrect.

Some Thai authority figure was dribbling crap into a microphone and mentioned that volunteers needed WPs. The media and farang barproppers had a field day over it.

No one was prosectuted.

[siampreggers]

It is simply the based on what the article is used for and that teachers are not exempt from a need to have a work permit. Key word is "duty", which is to perform a function and different from the word "work".

I think you'll find that the duty of teachers, under contract, is clearly stated as being educationally based. Most contract would begin 'The duty of the teacher is to....'. These duties are usually to prepare/produce educational materials and give a set number of lessons per week/month.

These duties are clearly for the 'benefit of education'.

What word is used in the Thai Version? Is it หน้าที่

Another important point is that it states that there must be a royal decree to be exempt, which there isn't for teachers.

It doesn't state that I'm afraid.

The need for a 'Royal decree' is for the 'other activities', not the ones listed.

(6) as persons who perform duty or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

Simple solution. If you do not consider the answer from Mario as correct despite many years of experience just get a job as a teacher and then go and tell the work permit and immigration people you do not need one because of it.

You can then enjoy the pleasures of fish head soup at Thai expense while you wait to return to your home country.

Blimey. What an immature and thoughtless comment.

[Mario2008]

After the Tsunami it was pointed out that volunteers need a work permit. An official said they would be prosecuted and after protests persons higher up in the chain of command said that they would not prosecute. After some time when the emergency work was done (some weeks or months later) it was announced that persons volunteering in connection with the tsunami would now need a work permit just like other volunteers need one.

Teachers need a work permit. Thai immigration police and labour officials raid from time to time some schools to check if people have a work permit. People witout one are taken to jail, some just pay a nice fine some are prosecuted and expelled. You can also check the website of the labour department and of the immigration police.

[jaideeguy]

Cum on guys....please don't sidetrack/hijack this topic dedicated to obtaining info leading to a speedy release from Jail for poor Willard. No need to argue the fine print of the legalities of his offense. He got busted and is still rotting in jail and nothing will change that except info on relatives abroad that will sponsor him. We already have a volunteer to pay his airfare and fine, but to bring this thread back to it's original purpose.....we now need someone to offer this lost lonely puppy a home base back home.

It's hard for me to believe that a guy [that I never met] can live such a solitary life for years in Hawaii and LOS and no one knows anything about his past life.