Getting Sick Of Dogooders

[citizen33 422]

Isaan continues to be the poorest of the Thai regions, but - as implied above - various forms of social support have always existed in local communities. What strikes me though is that Isaan people are not all the same, and many are very different from the lao khao-swilling bumpkins mentioned in the OP. In my village many people commute to work in a nearby city, work in public sector jobs in the locaiity, combine farming with building, or have some other money-making concern on the side. Some do seem to work pretty hard and have material trappings to match. The eminent Thai economist Ammar Siamwalla has written about an upwardly mobile group of 'rice managers' ('pujatkhan na'), who combine running various small businesses with farming, and can be contrasted with the subsistence farmers popularly associated with Isaan (chao na). I came across a very interesting article recently which argues that the redshirt activists are drawn mainly from this group as opposed to the very poor.

http://www.polis.leeds.ac.uk/assets/files/Staff/naruemon_and_mccargo.pdf

At the same time, demography and patterns of employment are changing and there is evidence that older people in Northern

and northeastern rural communities now have less social support than in the past. It does seem that some elders lack social support and are struggling - some of these are living in genuine poverty.

[NeverSure 26,764]

Around the world,Poverty and Religeon often go hand in hand!

I don't appreciate that. Around the world, communism and poverty often go hand in hand, and they are athiests for a large part. See N. Korea vs LOS. Most Western countries are primarily of some religion. In the ME, it's Islam but many are wealthy with oil. I could go on, but you have no right denigrating those who are religious. Such comments can only be divisive.

[MAJIC 2,809]

Around the world,Poverty and Religeon often go hand in hand!

I don't appreciate that. Around the world, communism and poverty often go hand in hand, and they are athiests for a large part. See N. Korea vs LOS. Most Western countries are primarily of some religion. In the ME, it's Islam but many are wealthy with oil. I could go on, but you have no right denigrating those who are religious. Such comments can only be divisive.

I wasn't denigrating anyones religeon,far from it,people make their own choices what they believe in,I was merely stating an observation,the same as you were with the Communist link with Poverty.

[swissie 4,763]

The people in Issan had no idea they were poor until they got televisions. Now they watch the soap operas and realize that some Thai people are incredibly wealthy. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. Life goes on for them and a full belly is happiness.

Can't fully agree with that. Thanks to Television, the realization that they are "poor" will sink in quickly. It awakens certain desires as far as material goods is concerned. Not surprising, a family member will often be sent off to see to it, that some of those desired goods find their way to the family back in the Isaan. We know the rest of the story.................!

After that, the story of "The Fisherman" quoted above by GWEILOMAN comes into effect. It's basically a simplefied description of the inner workings of capitalism.

As things unfold in "the western world", (Social Safety Net's for the old being deluted to the point of non-existance), it might well be, that the the system of "the young take care of the old" as we have it in Thailand, will prove to be far superior compared to the Safety-Nets western style.

A frank word about NGO's: For the most part they do good (or try too). But it's very hard to separate the white sheep from the black. It's not easy for a western sponsor to separate the two from a distance. Especially Cambodia seems to be a very good pasture for the black sheep kind. One wonders why there are still white collar criminals that bother to forge checks, as long as the playing field in form of a foundation (NGO) is wide open in Cambodia.

Cheers.

[happylarry 531]

My wife's sister, husband and family live in a nice but small two bedroom house but there were no seats of any sort in the lounge area and they all sat on the floor with their necks craning to watch the tv.

Doing my do-gooder bit I went out with my wife and I bought them a nice settee and delivered it back to them. To my knowledge it never got used at all and has now disappeared altogether.

It always seemed an effort to get a cup of coffee when I visited so I bought them a nice water heater....once again it only gets switched on when I go there.

I have stopped wasting my money now because they will always live as they always have done.

Having said that they are talking about buying a pick up in a couple of months , so its not because they cant afford to have these things, they just choose not to.

HL

Edited October 19, 2012 by happylarry

[Litlos 286]

Maybe a bit of balance to the OP. I regularly go up to Isaan and stay at the TGF's house. OK it was a shed when I first went up there and I have donated to improve it, voila not to much Baht and dam_n near the best house in the village. Still no settee, but after the last lot of rice checks a very nice table and chairs on area at the tiled area at the front of the house, where every body going past can see everything. The TGF's family are rice farmers and her sisters husband is a bit active as village something or other. He also goes fishing, every day, the sister wakes up at about 5am and commences cooking food for the monks, he heads down to the river to pulls his fish traps, back again in time for a feed at 8am and then wanders off about 9am to "farm rice". No idea what farm rice means if not planting or harvesting, but must be the right thing as even for a pleb like me it is good tasting rice. Afternoon he comes back about 4PM for a short while, then back to set the fish traps for overnight, gets back about 6:30pm. Will generally have a glass of beer with me at night, then wanders off to talk to friends, amuse his grand daughter whatever. In 4 years I have seen him hit the booze twice, followed each time but much swearing the next day of never again. In season he takes the muzzle loader with him and brings back a few Nok for the pot.

Then there are a few of the others around the village who do not do as much and complain about the cost of everything, preferably with a few belts of booze under the belt. This reminds me of working with my uncle the wheat farmer in Australia, he reckons that the farmers doing it the hardest are always the ones propping up the bar at the local pub. So some things seem to cut across racial boundaries, yes there are always losers and there are others who quietly get one with it. In general the village I go to seems to have a pretty hardworking bunch of people there, and not to many of the loser types, but go to a different village up the road and it is very different. So maybe the loser types tend to gravitate together as misery loves company. But generally in the TGF's village it is always interesting and people will help each other out. Not the nicest place in the world and there are still buffalo in the center of the village, so pretty basic. But it is a place I feel safe and welcome.

Never seen any missionary types up there and long may they avoid the place. If I do see any missionary types I will be advising the locals that they taste like pork (LOL).

Cheers

[canuckamuck 29,999]

This is an interesting thread, although I think the conclusion that is being developed (that no help is needed) is a bit myopic. Everywhere in the world you have people who cannot work for physical and mental reasons. There are orphans, widows and the elderly, and often times they do not find a nice place in the village social net. There are people who have debilitating conditions and cannot afford the procedure that would make them well again. Many of these people can receive some type of relief if discovered by the right organizations.

Thailand may not be facing any famine, food is abundant and living conditions are tropical.

A simpler way of life is possible here which has all of the appearance of hard living to the eyes of a westerner. But this does not mean all charity should end.

A very basic problem of getting help to where it is needed in a meaningful way is the fact that; people in the west cannot tell the difference between sensible country living and hardcore poverty. This is because if they lived the same way in America they would either die from the elements or be arrested for some zoning violation. What really is need is for people who can tell the difference to get involved in these kind of organizations and help direct the good intentions of the donors to the hands of the truly destitute.

[Scotswahay 43]

Thanks James for opening such an interesting & uplifting topic. It's so nice to see so many content farangs living here in Thailand for a change. I've told so many friends who visit Thailand regularly (that is Pattaya & Puket....Not real Thailand) that they really have no idea what REAL Thailand is all about. I live in Essan & personaly think it's a little piece of heaven with some of the nicest people I have ever met in my worldly travels. Every day I see the kids in the village playing together with a big mix of ages. They have very little in western kids conceptions of what you need to be happy materialisticly but I see happy happy kids, great imaginations & very high respect for their peirs & elders.

Thank you all who have made the effort to reflect on our beautiful quality life here in the true land of smiles.

Joe.

[cooked 5,873]

Hey, we got this far with hardly any Thai bashing!

[NeverSure 26,764]

I don't know if this is even on topic, but I do donate to a US organization which is based in my state. I know where the money goes and that it does good. Every year they plan a trip to some 3rd world destination, put out the word in advance, and arrive to do free cleft palate surgeries. They are doctors and nurses and anesthesiologists and helpers. Each team member pays his own travel expenses so not even that comes from my donations. The medical professionals work for free of course.

When they arrive, the word has gotten out and they do dozens of surgeries, one after the other and they do them right. It of course it changes the patient's life forever. I think this is something which rather than try to change the culture, targets individuals who are truly helped.

[jamescollister 973]

Thanks James for opening such an interesting & uplifting topic. It's so nice to see so many content farangs living here in Thailand for a change. I've told so many friends who visit Thailand regularly (that is Pattaya & Puket....Not real Thailand) that they really have no idea what REAL Thailand is all about. I live in Essan & personaly think it's a little piece of heaven with some of the nicest people I have ever met in my worldly travels. Every day I see the kids in the village playing together with a big mix of ages. They have very little in western kids conceptions of what you need to be happy materialisticly but I see happy happy kids, great imaginations & very high respect for their peirs & elders.

Thank you all who have made the effort to reflect on our beautiful quality life here in the true land of smiles.

Joe.

Joe, I have 2 kids, both born in Australia.

Kids in Thailand have a real childhood, not farmed off to strangers in day care centers, so mum and dad can go to work. They play in the street with other kids, watched over by Aunts,1st, 2nd, 3rd cousins and the village as a whole. They are not forced to stay in house in front of a TV because the streets are to dangerous to venture out. That's why we came here and when the kids get big enough they can choose, a simple life here or the bright lights of Sydney or London. That is their life, my part is to give them the happy child hood, so they can grow to be happy adults.

Material wealth does not bring contentment, if you have a secure life style, food to eat and a place to sleep, what more do you need. Jim

[Thaddeus 7,543]

Material wealth does not bring contentment, if you have a secure life style, food to eat and a place to sleep, what more do you need. Jim

Indeed.

[pigeonjake 4,325]

great posting jim, ill say well done to you wise man,

this when you think of it, im 52, when i was growing up we could play outside, i didnt have much when i was growing up, non of us did, we lived in a council street, nothing wrong with that, but what im getting at, me and all my mates could play outside from dawn till dusk,

our parents didnt have to worry about us, there was allways someone in the street looking,

i see the same here with our kids, they play all over the village,

but what i do see are happy kids allways smiling, they dont have things,

but like when i was growing up, give them a rope and a tree and youve got months of fun on that swing,,lol,

life is what you make it,

i had children in england sorry still do have children in england, my daughter is at uni, and my son is 15,

they never had the childhood that i had growing up, being able to run about free as i put it, yes we did go out fishing and shooting as much as we could, but they couldnt do what me and my freinds could do,

and what i see in thailand in the village is just what i was able to do with my freinds be free and enjoy my childhood,

i sit and watch them play and it makes me happy to see them, im allways sat there with a smile on my face,

as jim says being happy isnt about money, what youve got in your house, how big your house is,

infact a house is that a house without happyness,

it only becomes a home with happyness,

great thred jim, very thought provoking

brings back many many happy memories for me,

thank you,, jake

[theslime 388]

Thanks James for opening such an interesting & uplifting topic. It's so nice to see so many content farangs living here in Thailand for a change. I've told so many friends who visit Thailand regularly (that is Pattaya & Puket....Not real Thailand) that they really have no idea what REAL Thailand is all about. I live in Essan & personaly think it's a little piece of heaven with some of the nicest people I have ever met in my worldly travels. Every day I see the kids in the village playing together with a big mix of ages. They have very little in western kids conceptions of what you need to be happy materialisticly but I see happy happy kids, great imaginations & very high respect for their peirs & elders.

Thank you all who have made the effort to reflect on our beautiful quality life here in the true land of smiles.

Joe.

Joe, I have 2 kids, both born in Australia.

Kids in Thailand have a real childhood, not farmed off to strangers in day care centers, so mum and dad can go to work. They play in the street with other kids, watched over by Aunts,1st, 2nd, 3rd cousins and the village as a whole. They are not forced to stay in house in front of a TV because the streets are to dangerous to venture out. That's why we came here and when the kids get big enough they can choose, a simple life here or the bright lights of Sydney or London. That is their life, my part is to give them the happy child hood, so they can grow to be happy adults.

Material wealth does not bring contentment, if you have a secure life style, food to eat and a place to sleep, what more do you need. Jim

Man do you ever leave the Village? Try the Mountain lifestyle, no Medicine, no Work, no School, not enough to eat. Evidently you have never seen Poverty. Next time in BKK try walking around Klong Toey. I can,t believe no one has challenged your Myopic View. In Buddism we are taught to put up with our lot, so just because you don,t hear them complain doesn,t mean its all Beer and Skittles. If a Family,s Old Man drinks all the money or Mum Gambles it, couldn,t that reduce people to Poverty which you said in the OP that you don,t see, only Happy children and Contented Serfs .

[theslime 388]

I have yet to come across a cold, lonely or hungry Thai. There are plenty back in the UK though.

The elderly are also well cared for here not stuffed in nursing homes and forgotten by their family.

The kids also have so much more fun and freedom here than back home where they are not even allowed out alone because everyone is paranoid and living in fear.

Man you should get out more.