Getting Sick Of Dogooders

[krisb]

I hear what your saying OP, but your not exactly right.

Issan people are poor. fact.

The farmers that I know are underpayed. fact.

If any falang want to put a bit of their cash into helping others in villages, then good on em I say...why should it bother you?...its not your money theyre spending.

You gotta relax a bit mate

Rest that ankle..

Issan people are happy . FACT!

Thai farmers are paid the equivelent to their work, FACT!

If any farang want to spend there money helping villages in Essan. Please come & live here first before you decide where to squander your or kind people;s donations.

I live here in Essan. Can I ask you where you live if you don't mind?

Relieve me of my misconceptions.....your a jerk.

I know many people in our village who have a verry good income, in particular from rubber trees in my neck of the woods. I have a good few myself as well as pineaples, herbs & many other fruits, spices, herbs & veg.

Can I also ask if you don't mind where you got the idea that Essan is such a poor place?

If you don't live here & ever take the time to come here I'd be happy to show you around & relieve you of your misconceptions

My wife and I have a house between Chumphae and See Chompuu.

So before YOU jump to conclusions, and try and tell me what you think I dont know, think again.

Releive me of my misconceptions?? Your not the only 1 living up there mate.

Ok, how much is a big bag of rice compared to a days pay for a farm worker? Its nothing in my home country to buy 20kg bag.

How much is a pack of cigarettes in Thailand? how many locals who smoke buy packets? not many to expensive at 60baht a pak.

1kg of beef?, 1kg of pork,? the lists go on.

look, they arent poor like some countries, no ones dying of starvation or dysantry...I agree 100%

My point is if anyone wants to blow their cash on whatever up there then good on em. Its not my or your money so who cares.

Edited October 27, 2012 by krisb

[isanbirder]

I can't say I've read the whole thread, but the gist seems to be that Isan people are happy, and not rock-bottom poor. I agree... one sees no starvation or malnutrition here, and nobody seems to go hungry or thirsty. But I think you're living in a fool's paradise. The outside world is encroaching on Isan; you can't stop it, and you'd better prepare to meet it.

What Isan needs is not handouts, but improved farming methods, better teaching in the schools, and some hope for the young people to better themselves. Villages are not self-contained units like they used to be; the chain of authority from pu-yai-ban to heads of families to the children has broken down, and the young people look elsewhere for their futures. In the village I live in, many young people are just layabouts, doing the occasional day's work for whisky money, and sponging on their families for the rest. Maybe they'll join the Redshirts if enough cash is offered.

Before I came to Isan four years ago, I lived for 15 years in Chiangmai, and for 10 years of that I ran a small NGO. We gave scholarships to needy kids, and visited their families before agreeing to donate to them. The money came from a legacy in Singapore; I was paid a salary in Singapore, but every baht which reached Chiangmai went to the kids, except expenses, which took up about 0.5%. Yes, that's right, 0.5%. I think we might have done better to open our own school, but we funked the bureaucracy involved. We were fully independent, not affiliated to any other organisation.

Having said that, I agree with a lot of the adverse comments on NGOs, and I could add to the horror stories! Many missionaries are in it for the money; but there are others who generally believe in what they're doing, spend their own money on it, and live very humble lives. Don't throw the gems out with the rubbish!

[krisb]

Well I am off the net for a few days, off to the Issan farang farmers meeting, but just a passing comment. Seen some good done here by individuals, brother brought the play ground for the local village kindergarten. Friends bring clothes, and school stuff when they come, I supplied a TV and video and some DVDs of sesame street to the kindergarten. Does it really make a difference, don't think so. Makes me feel good and the kids have a party. Wife money allowing feeds and buys ice cream for the primary school on her birthday, a little party. There are people through out Thailand doing little bits here and there, who are making a bigger difference combined, than an NGO with millions of dollars do. Jim

Dear James. I was upset by your OP Header to start with, bagging good hearted people that try and help the poor. you then made a comparison that as I have no shoes I guess that makes me poor(FW). You also said no one stops them building bigger houses, what with. Poverty doen,t pay. Free Health and Milk was mentioned. As we pay for what we get I know the 30baht Scheme doesn,t help if you need Cancer Treatment and the free Milk I,m sure will benifit Kids, but they don,t give it out Willy Nilly to the Poor. Maybe the Thais you wrote of won,t work , but nearly all I know work 6days a week and still can,t make ends meet. Ever tried cutting Cane, maybe they need some rest after doing it for 5 months at a time. You said you live near/in Forest, well most of Issan isn.t Forest and one cannot go out and shoot for food.

Dont let the trolls bother you slime.

It sounds like he (op) has cut plenty cane and rice for half a year then has no work the other half and knows its easy living on 250baht a day. Thats plenty huh?

What do you live on the other 6 months of no work?...oh I forgot its ok, least your happy and get free milk at school until year 6 when parents cant afford to send you anymore.

Lots of Issan is poor. My wife will tell you what its really like, couldnt afford shoes for school, rain on your head at night beacuse the grass roof leaks. have to leave school to go work to help family.

I think the OP is jealous because he cant "do good" and these do gooders make him look like a scrooge.

Edited October 27, 2012 by krisb

[TommoPhysicist]

Ok, how much is a big bag of rice compared to a days pay for a farm worker? Its nothing in my home country to buy 20kg bag.

How much is a pack of cigarettes in Thailand? how many locals who smoke buy packets? not many to expensive at 60baht a pak.

1kg of beef?, 1kg of pork,? the lists go on.

I don't know anyone in our village who buys rice .... grow your own or trade with neighbors.

Tobacco ...... same ...... smoke till you drop, rice whiskey ..... same .... guys drunk every night.

Why would anyone buy something they can have for (nearly) free?

1kg of pork or beef, nobody really eats that quantity of meat except for weddings and funerals. (Beef, hardly anyone eats it as Buddha doesn't like you eating beef)

For someone that supposedly lives in a rural area, you have some strange ideas about what people buy!

Edited October 27, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[citizen33]

Remember that NGO just means non-governmental organisation. There are many Thai NGOs, such as the Rural Doctors Society, that try to do good things in Isaan but have no resemblance whatsoever to what is being portrayed here. As I mentioned earlier I haven't seen much activity in Isaan from international charities spending western money or even from missionaries (though I know the latter do exist).

Incidentally whatever makes people think the 30 baht scheme (which we may have to call by that name again since the co-payment came back in September) doesn't treat cancer. It may be true that some individual hospital physicians don't treat certain Isaan patients with the disease, but where that happens it does not please the scheme's funding organisation, the National Health Security Office. In fact the NHSO has helped fund and establish a number of centres of excellence for cancer care, where there were none before, mainly to treat 30 baht beneficiaries. One was established in Ubon.

[manarak]

Well I am off the net for a few days, off to the Issan farang farmers meeting, but just a passing comment. Seen some good done here by individuals, brother brought the play ground for the local village kindergarten. Friends bring clothes, and school stuff when they come, I supplied a TV and video and some DVDs of sesame street to the kindergarten. Does it really make a difference, don't think so. Makes me feel good and the kids have a party. Wife money allowing feeds and buys ice cream for the primary school on her birthday, a little party. There are people through out Thailand doing little bits here and there, who are making a bigger difference combined, than an NGO with millions of dollars do. Jim

Dear James. I was upset by your OP Header to start with, bagging good hearted people that try and help the poor. you then made a comparison that as I have no shoes I guess that makes me poor(FW). You also said no one stops them building bigger houses, what with. Poverty doen,t pay. Free Health and Milk was mentioned. As we pay for what we get I know the 30baht Scheme doesn,t help if you need Cancer Treatment and the free Milk I,m sure will benifit Kids, but they don,t give it out Willy Nilly to the Poor. Maybe the Thais you wrote of won,t work , but nearly all I know work 6days a week and still can,t make ends meet. Ever tried cutting Cane, maybe they need some rest after doing it for 5 months at a time. You said you live near/in Forest, well most of Issan isn.t Forest and one cannot go out and shoot for food.

Dont let the trolls bother you slime.

It sounds like he (op) has cut plenty cane and rice for half a year then has no work the other half and knows its easy living on 250baht a day. Thats plenty huh?

What do you live on the other 6 months of no work?...oh I forgot its ok, least your happy and get free milk at school until year 6 when parents cant afford to send you anymore.

Lots of Issan is poor. My wife will tell you what its really like, couldnt afford shoes for school, rain on your head at night beacuse the grass roof leaks. have to leave school to go work to help family.

I think the OP is jealous because he cant "do good" and these do gooders make him look like a scrooge.

It is important to not mistake lack of currency with poverty.

People are not poor just because they don't have money.

[Thaddeus]

People are not poor just because they don't have money.

Unless they are judged by western standards, and I am left to wonder sometimes how many posters on this forum understand the difference between quality of life and quantity of bank account.

[Squigy]

People are not poor just because they don't have money.

Unless they are judged by western standards, and I am left to wonder sometimes how many posters on this forum understand the difference between quality of life and quantity of bank account.

Thoroughly agree with these words.

[krisb]

Ok, how much is a big bag of rice compared to a days pay for a farm worker? Its nothing in my home country to buy 20kg bag.

How much is a pack of cigarettes in Thailand? how many locals who smoke buy packets? not many to expensive at 60baht a pak.

1kg of beef?, 1kg of pork,? the lists go on.

I don't know anyone in our village who buys rice .... grow your own or trade with neighbors.

Tobacco ...... same ...... smoke till you drop, rice whiskey ..... same .... guys drunk every night.

Why would anyone buy something they can have for (nearly) free?

1kg of pork or beef, nobody really eats that quantity of meat except for weddings and funerals. (Beef, hardly anyone eats it as Buddha doesn't like you eating beef)

For someone that supposedly lives in a rural area, you have some strange ideas about what people buy!

OK, reason they dont eat that quantity of meat is cause they cant afford more.

Beef is to expensive. Not because buddha says dont eat it. Where did you get that from?...India?

Tailor made cigarettes are to expensive at 60baht a packet. So they mostly buy rollies.

Not everyone trades rice, what if you dont have enough land to grow? Trade with your neighbours with what?....why do they sell rice in shops if its traded between neighbours and not bought?

Like I said, no ones dying of starvation, dysantry etc.

Its not that poor. But it is poor....any way you wanna dress it up.

Now I will keep you here no longer, let you get back to trading with your neighbours.

Edited October 28, 2012 by krisb

[stiggy]

Easy statements to make when you can up and leave sticks whenever you like, when you have confidence your nearest and dearest can be treated for illness etc.

Many are happy as you put it, particulary the older generation.But then again there is also a lot of apathy and acceptance going on.

Migration ( younger population) from the eastern provinces to cities is huge in Thailand, why ?

Education,health care, oppurtunitys are the normal driving factors.

[krisb]

Easy statements to make when you can up and leave sticks whenever you like, when you have confidence your nearest and dearest can be treated for illness etc.

Many are happy as you put it, particulary the older generation.But then again there is also a lot of apathy and acceptance going on.

Migration ( younger population) from the eastern provinces to cities is huge in Thailand, why ?

Education,health care, oppurtunitys are the normal driving factors.

Thats right. well said.

Many westerners here dont know what its like to work for 200 or 250baht a day, Then have to survive on that money...not easy.

Anyhow the topic has swayed, the threads about do gooders,..I still say if they wanna spnd their cash on what they choose so be it

People are not poor just because they don't have money.

Unless they are judged by western standards, and I am left to wonder sometimes how many posters on this forum understand the difference between quality of life and quantity of bank account.

Thoroughly agree with these words.

If you cant afford food, shelter ,healthcare? What quality of life is there?

[Scotswahay]

Ok, how much is a big bag of rice compared to a days pay for a farm worker? Its nothing in my home country to buy 20kg bag.

How much is a pack of cigarettes in Thailand? how many locals who smoke buy packets? not many to expensive at 60baht a pak.

1kg of beef?, 1kg of pork,? the lists go on.

I don't know anyone in our village who buys rice .... grow your own or trade with neighbors.

Tobacco ...... same ...... smoke till you drop, rice whiskey ..... same .... guys drunk every night.

Why would anyone buy something they can have for (nearly) free?

1kg of pork or beef, nobody really eats that quantity of meat except for weddings and funerals. (Beef, hardly anyone eats it as Buddha doesn't like you eating beef)

For someone that supposedly lives in a rural area, you have some strange ideas about what people buy!

OK, reason they dont eat that quantity of meat is cause they cant afford more.

Beef is to expensive. Not because buddha says dont eat it. Where did you get that from?...India?

Tailor made cigarettes are to expensive at 60baht a packet. So they mostly buy rollies.

Not everyone trades rice, what if you dont have enough land to grow? Trade with your neighbours with what?....why do they sell rice in shops if its traded between neighbours and not bought?

Like I said, no ones dying of starvation, dysantry etc.

Its not that poor. But it is poor....any way you wanna dress it up.

Now I will keep you here no longer, let you get back to trading with your neighbours.

Ok you are obviously in need of a little education and correction so here goes.

The reason many Thais don't eat beef is firstly through their worship of the Chinese godess Jawmae guan-im whose father vowed to return as a cow as atonement to his sins in life so people followed her descision not to eat beef. Secondly King Chulalongkorn Rama 5, throned in 1868, A boy king of 15yrs and very much revered in Thailand decided not to eat animals that worked the land. Cows, buffalos and elephants. My wife is like my personal wikipedia! She does'nt eat beef but can sure afford to.

Beef in Thailand approx. 140B/kg. Beef in UK approx. £6 (300B)/kg

Not sure what cigs you smoke but 60Bpkt is peng mak mak! I pay 320B/ carton SMS. Could get much cheaper brands but they suit me fine & are no better or worse than the cigs I buy in UK at £6.50/ packet. More than 10 times more expensive!

Thais eat on average 136kg rice/person/year. We just bought a BIG sack (over 100kg) sticky rice variety in next village. 700Baht. In the last year rice cost has more than doubled in UK. Mainly due to shipping costs. From 57p/kg to £1.35/kg. Uk imports approx 400,000tons/year. Do your sums!

Hope you enjoyed my wee rant as much as I did yours.

Nice to have a wee rant sometimes.

Have a lovely day

Edited October 28, 2012 by Scotswahay

[krisb]

Ok, how much is a big bag of rice compared to a days pay for a farm worker? Its nothing in my home country to buy 20kg bag.

How much is a pack of cigarettes in Thailand? how many locals who smoke buy packets? not many to expensive at 60baht a pak.

1kg of beef?, 1kg of pork,? the lists go on.

I don't know anyone in our village who buys rice .... grow your own or trade with neighbors.

Tobacco ...... same ...... smoke till you drop, rice whiskey ..... same .... guys drunk every night.

Why would anyone buy something they can have for (nearly) free?

1kg of pork or beef, nobody really eats that quantity of meat except for weddings and funerals. (Beef, hardly anyone eats it as Buddha doesn't like you eating beef)

For someone that supposedly lives in a rural area, you have some strange ideas about what people buy!

OK, reason they dont eat that quantity of meat is cause they cant afford more.

Beef is to expensive. Not because buddha says dont eat it. Where did you get that from?...India?

Tailor made cigarettes are to expensive at 60baht a packet. So they mostly buy rollies.

Not everyone trades rice, what if you dont have enough land to grow? Trade with your neighbours with what?....why do they sell rice in shops if its traded between neighbours and not bought?

Like I said, no ones dying of starvation, dysantry etc.

Its not that poor. But it is poor....any way you wanna dress it up.

Now I will keep you here no longer, let you get back to trading with your neighbours.

Ok you are obviously in need of a little education and correction so here goes.

The reason many Thais don't eat beef is firstly through their worship of the Chinese godess Jawmae guan-im whose father vowed to return as a cow as atonement to his sins in life so people followed her descision not to eat beef. Secondly King Chulalongkorn Rama 5, throned in 1868, A boy king of 15yrs and very much revered in Thailand decided not to eat animals that worked the land. Cows, buffalos and elephants. My wife is like my personal wikipedia! She does'nt eat beef but can sure afford to.

Beef in Thailand approx. 140B/kg. Beef in UK approx. £6 (300B)/kg

Not sure what cigs you smoke but 60Bpkt is peng mak mak! I pay 320B/ carton SMS. Could get much cheaper brands but they suit me fine & are no better or worse than the cigs I buy in UK at £6.50/ packet. More than 10 times more expensive!

Thais eat on average 136kg rice/person/year. We just bought a BIG sack (over 100kg) sticky rice variety in next village. 700Baht. In the last year rice cost has more than doubled in UK. Mainly due to shipping costs. From 57p/kg to £1.35/kg. Uk imports approx 400,000tons/year. Do your sums!

Hope you enjoyed my wee rant as much as I did yours.

Nice to have a wee rant sometimes.

Have a lovely day

Fair enough!

In Australia I can buy 100kg of good rice for $50. Now as a tradesman I earn around $350 a day.

In Thailand an average village wage would be say 250baht? Now that rice is 700baht.

I dont have to work 3 days to buy rice. Does that mean Thai rice is much more expensive? no.

BTW, I dont see many in the village smoking tailor made smokes still.

Edited October 28, 2012 by krisb

[Thaddeus]

In Thailand an average village wage would be say 250baht? Now that rice is 700baht.

I dont have to work 3 days to buy rice. Does that mean Thai rice is much more expensive? no.

BTW, I dont see many in the village smoking tailor made smokes still.

The average cost of rice is 3 Baht per Thai person per day.

[theslime]

Where the Hell is that Shop, I,m Thinking of a Ute Run and perchance I could fill up with Rice, as my Local Shop sells it for considerably more. More like Tesco,s prices. At that price I guess the little Stones in the Rice are allowed for in the Weight, or else its a Diddle.

[patongphil]

Where the Hell is that Shop, I,m Thinking of a Ute Run and perchance I could fill up with Rice, as my Local Shop sells it for considerably more. More like Tesco,s prices. At that price I guess the little Stones in the Rice are allowed for in the Weight, or else its a Diddle.

Me too. Come on where is this place you can buy rice for 7 baht per kilo. forget the Ute I could buy a big truck with a few days proceeds from this.

Also the beef - local prices here are between 200 and 220 baht per kilo. Guess I may need 2 trucks!!!

[swissie]

Off topic a long time ago (who reads 136 comments?), including mine, must admit. Lets all take heart and start induvidual Threads like:

-The ultimate NGO's are: Farangs over the age of 65 with a wide open wallet and with young "wifeys". They have contributed more to the well-beeing of "poor Thais" than any number of NGO's,

Amen & cheers.

[jamescollister]

Back from my weekend away and think I will put my departing comments in, as this threat draws to a close.

As is often the case things digress from the OP as people comment on what was allegedly said 10 posts ago.

Don't believe I originally said I was against people helping and some may have read it that way. I said, sick of do gooders posting on web sites about the abject poverty of Issan. As for the shoe thing, I know that sarcasm goes over the heads of many, but it was sarcasm. To use the shoe wearing scale to judge the affluence of a population is like using the big Mac scale, how many minutes or hours to earn a burger. Perhaps they could used home ownership levels, as the bench mark, as many western Governments do. That would no doubt make rural Issan richer than Australia.

You can not judge people on shoes, burgers or home ownership.

Now unless my beer soaked brain has lost the ability to do basic money conversion, the amount that NGOs state they raised for Thailand, is over 2 billion US a year. Issan being the alleged poorest place in Thailand, one would think a fair proportion of it should be spent here in a given year. I asked is there anyone who can show what these NGOs have actually done here, where has this money gone and as of yet no one has written about one real project to aid the poor.

All I have seen in my 10 years is one hole dug for fish and a Sunday school, in which kids were bribed with ice cream and chocolate to attend and have photo's taken.

I will say this one more time, I see no starvation, no real hardship, happy farming people. I do see construction, new roads, new buildings going up everywhere. Jim

[TommoPhysicist]

Perhaps they could used home ownership levels, as the bench mark, as many western Governments do. That would no doubt make rural Issan richer than Australia.

Bulgaria has the highest proportion of home owners (97%) in the world, while Germany is very low on the scale (42%).

http://blogs.crikey....ries-wealthier/

some additional countries with higher home ownership rates than Australia (69%) i.e. Lithuania (96%), Mexico (83%), India (82%), Iran (81%) and Greece (80%). It also shows Switzerland, at 35%, has a lower proportion of owners than Germany (42%).

Edited October 29, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[theslime]

Perhaps they could used home ownership levels, as the bench mark, as many western Governments do. That would no doubt make rural Issan richer than Australia.

Bulgaria has the highest proportion of home owners (97%) in the world, while Germany is very low on the scale (42%).

http://blogs.crikey....ries-wealthier/

some additional countries with higher home ownership rates than Australia (69%) i.e. Lithuania (96%), Mexico (83%), India (82%), Iran (81%) and Greece (80%). It also shows Switzerland, at 35%, has a lower proportion of owners than Germany (42%).

If you live in a Hovel in Issan or a Split level overlooking the Sydney Suburbs I suppose its still a Home and there is no place like home.

[SantiSuk]

A former partner of mine, before I came out to Thailand on more than just business trips, used to sponsor a village girl in what she described as being way out in the wilds of the north eastern area of Thailand. According to her (my partner) they were all desparately poor and ran around with minimal clothing and no shoes on their feet. 16 GBP a month would keep her out of the desparate clutches of the brothel-keepers. I recall she was devastated when the sponsored girl got married at 16, but she was glad that the girl would not be quote sold into prostitution (she was Calvanistically right on when it came to womens rights was my lady).

I haven't told her that the village I now live in could easily be the same as the home of the desparately poor and isolated village girl that she funded. I don't think she would appprove of my personal form of sponsorship somehow - marrying a lady 20 years your junior somehow doesn't gel with a western liberated (older) female, even if it does raise the living standard of a whole extended family.

Not trying to make any particular points here - just reflecting on the funny old world that we live in

[krisb]

Back from my weekend away and think I will put my departing comments in, as this threat draws to a close.

As is often the case things digress from the OP as people comment on what was allegedly said 10 posts ago.

Don't believe I originally said I was against people helping and some may have read it that way. I said, sick of do gooders posting on web sites about the abject poverty of Issan. As for the shoe thing, I know that sarcasm goes over the heads of many, but it was sarcasm. To use the shoe wearing scale to judge the affluence of a population is like using the big Mac scale, how many minutes or hours to earn a burger. Perhaps they could used home ownership levels, as the bench mark, as many western Governments do. That would no doubt make rural Issan richer than Australia.

You can not judge people on shoes, burgers or home ownership.

Now unless my beer soaked brain has lost the ability to do basic money conversion, the amount that NGOs state they raised for Thailand, is over 2 billion US a year. Issan being the alleged poorest place in Thailand, one would think a fair proportion of it should be spent here in a given year. I asked is there anyone who can show what these NGOs have actually done here, where has this money gone and as of yet no one has written about one real project to aid the poor.

All I have seen in my 10 years is one hole dug for fish and a Sunday school, in which kids were bribed with ice cream and chocolate to attend and have photo's taken.

I will say this one more time, I see no starvation, no real hardship, happy farming people. I do see construction, new roads, new buildings going up everywhere. Jim

OK, as this thread comes to a close, Im starting a new one, call it a continuation of this. I agree with you, where the hells all the money gone?

[David48]

Jim, like so many more who have commented ... a great Thread.

Agree with him or not ... it does open the mind.

<snip>

If nothing else, some well-meaning, overly enthusiastic do-gooders can provide a bit of entertainment in areas with poor television reception.

Great line ...

[endure]

If you're getting sick of dogooders then look up

Baan Gerda

The student charity thailand

plan international

[theslime]

If you're getting sick of dogooders then look up

Baan Gerda

The student charity thailand

plan international

Baan Gerda Fantastic effort, I do hope the OP reads this. Doctor Cynthia also comes to mind, who would under the OP,s premise be Sarcastically dismissed as a Dogooder. Sarcasm the lowest form of wit. Tut Tut

[manarak]

If you're getting sick of dogooders then look up

Baan Gerda

The student charity thailand

plan international

Baan Gerda Fantastic effort, I do hope the OP reads this. Doctor Cynthia also comes to mind, who would under the OP,s premise be Sarcastically dismissed as a Dogooder. Sarcasm the lowest form of wit. Tut Tut

I think the OP is more irritated by "talkgooders" instead of "dogooders".

All people who do really good things for anyone deserve respect, all the more so if they do it while preserving Thai culture and religion.

Unfortunately, often the reality is different: "talkgooders" overdramatise or even misrepresent many facts to use as a reason to collect funds under false pretenses. It gets worse when these "Talkgooders" use that money to start projects that mess with Thai culture or Buddhism, and when as an added disgrace supposed "dogooders" are instead committing evil deeds:

Edited November 2, 2012 by manarak

[jamescollister]

If you're getting sick of dogooders then look up

Baan Gerda

The student charity thailand

plan international

Baan Gerda Fantastic effort, I do hope the OP reads this. Doctor Cynthia also comes to mind, who would under the OP,s premise be Sarcastically dismissed as a Dogooder. Sarcasm the lowest form of wit. Tut Tut

Mr Slime this is the ISSAN forum, not Outer Mongolia, Sub Sahara Africa or some other place. It's about Issan, not slums in BKK or Hill tribes. Jim

[IsaanAussie]

Isaan, what a place. When I first meet my wife she said she came from outside Thailand, she is an Isaan girl. Bangkok or Chiang Mai it's another world.

Reality is the funds flow in, those that reach the project get spent and then it is over! That simple.

[downtown]

thai religion? do they have a patent over buddhism?

[theblether]

Hi Jim & all those who have contributed in making this forum so interesting.

I added a short comment earlier & now I’d like to emphasise my opinion regarding my personal experience. So here we go…

“Do-gooders.” A collective term for people who really do something good for our planet? Or a sarcastic term we use for people who might use a charitable institution to get brownie points, help fill their otherwise boring CV’s & boost their own egos without a true understanding of what is really needed to help the less fortunate?

I think the term relates to both parties & here are my reasons why:-

About 20yrs ago I did some really nice carpentry work for a wealthy guy in Edinburgh. He was the head of a well-known charity, whose name I won’t mention in case it offends someone. His son who also worked for the charity commissioned me to make various furnishings in his new house in Stockbridge. (A very upmarket area in Edinburgh.) One day we got talking about what they did. At the time they were helping orphans in Bosnia & Romania. They told me they really needed someone to oversee some projects & asked me if I was interested. It happens that my father came to Scotland with his mum & 2 sisters as refugees from Romania during WW2 & so because of my heritage I jumped at the chance. I volunteered to a 3 month stint without pay although food & accommodation would be provided & I paid my own flight.

I arrived in Podriga, a small town north of Bucharest to find chaos. There were 8 volunteers on site. All of whom I wouldn’t have given a job sweeping the floor of my workshop back in Scotland. Drunken bums who acted like Santa Claus every time a consignment of donated goodies arrived to be distributed whilst enjoying a drop of the local hooch everywhere they went. The charity had bought 4 cars cheap in Belgium. Toyotas. All of which were broken down with nobody local having the ability or spares to repair. Why they didn’t buy cars in Romania, the same as everyone else drives is beyond me.

In Scotland I was shown before & after pics of a group of orphans. Dirty & ragged to clean & well dressed. Great publicity photos! All I saw when I got there was the “before” picture. The minute the cameras disappeared, so did the nice cloths to adorn the doctors, nurse’s & porter’s kids or be sold at the market. Unfortunately an orphan in the eyes of a Romanian has the same status as a stray dog.

I was given a list of supplies from the team which they said were necessary to finish windows they had had made for the orphanage.

A few of their wants.

Dulux primer & gloss paint

Sand paper

Silicone sealant

Paint brushes.

All of which had previously been sent but had been stolen by the locals. The list went on & on.

My answers

No! Use old carbonised engine oil. A crude but effective timber preservative. It won’t get stolen & you educate.

No! Use coarse paper & ground glass & glue. Again crude but effective & educational. “But we can’t find glue!” “Did I say glue? I meant egg white!”

No! Mix fine sand with linseed oil or similar to make waterproof putty.

No! Teach the kids how to make paint brushes. What you don’t use, they can sell.

The best thing I saw they had done out there was to build a beautiful big house with central heating and all the mod cons for the charity hierarchy to stay when they visited. It stuck out like a sore thumb in the village. My story could go on but suffice to say this is an expurgated account of a very long 3 months.

On return to the UK I had a meeting with the big bosses to “touch base” as they put it.

My idea :

Since Romania a lot of wealth as well as poverty, why not educate them to set up their own charitable institution so they can start to help themselves? If they don’t try to get their act together…. Pull out & see what happens.

My thoughts didn’t go down too well. Surprise surprise & I was graciously ousted. An experience nevertheless. Someone on this forum said “It’s their money so let them do what they want with it!” I beg to differ! They’re squandering the money from real do-gooder’s donations!

Now here I am 20yrs later living in a wee village in Essan. Probably for much the same reasons as many of you here. I met the right girl for me & this is where she calls home. Before we met, she worked for Toshiba in Pathum thani for 12yrs. She’s well educated & worked hard to help her parents up here. I had been to Thailand many times before we met i.e. Pattaya, BK, Huay hin & Phuket but had never experienced the rural north. I must admit my 1^st trip up here was a real culture shock. There was plenty room for us at the folk’s farm but WOA! I needed my creature comforts! So a hotel, then later an apartment was our abode until I fixed up the folk’s place. Not too much but a sit down loo, a hot shower & comfy bed were a must.

We moved here permanently about 2yrs ago when I persuaded her to leave her job. It didn’t take much since she missed her family & the village so much. Apart from that I could afford to look after us. We’re now about ½ way through our own house of our dreams & I’ve become part of the village as well as the village becoming a big part of me.

There’s a big lake near the village with a restaurant & rafts built & run by the village co-op. It can get busy but not many farangs. They did however have a farang menu written by the local teacher in English. I had to chuckle when I first read it. Here are a few examples using my not perfect phonetic Thai & their English translation.

1. Planin pow bai tdai……………..Sapphire fish burns. (Foil baked tilapia with fresh veg & chilli dip)
   
2. Tom yam gai ban……..Fowl soup. (chicken soup with local herbs & spices)
   
3. Yam lepeunang……..Mix a fingernail Mrs. (Spicy Thai salad with chicken feet & mixed herbs)
   
4. Moo tod samun phai…Sunlight one pig (Pan seared pork with garlic & black pepper)
   
5. Som tam Laos…Penetrate a lao (Papaya salad from Essan with fermented fish)
   
6. Som tam Thai…Penetrate a Thai ( Spicy papaya salad with prawns, nuts & soya bean)
   

Perhaps there’s no need to wonder why they didn’t get many farangs in for a snack! You got to laugh

So…Having some spare time on my hands I put together a brochure & menu for the place & it really has made a big difference & was well appreciated. Especially when I got the wife to translate the old one back to Thai. Hee hee!

I’ve made good friends with the village chief & a policeman who also owns the local pub (for want of a better description.) Great guys! They work hard & play hard. Pretty much every night I’m in there having a couple of beers & a game of snooker with the locals. Kids are always around & it didn’t take long before every night there was a group of them around my table wanting to practice their limited English with Kun Joe, the ting tong farang who always made them laugh. The cluster soon became a crowd. Then my mates asked me if I would be interested in doing the teaching a bit more serious. Like a wee village school doing a couple of nights a week. Why not, I thought. So we embarked on what has become something truly amazing!

“The little school of life. PONGBEA”

We, the village, transformed a small disused building in the grounds of the temple into a REAL little school. I went to the big city school in Loei telling them of our plans & persuaded them to donate a load of old brocken tables & chairs which I spent a month or so restoring. Again with lots of help from the villagers.

I got the kids to make some banners & go round the village with a money jar to collect donations. The result was great, Over 1000Bt. Enough to buy lots of pencils, books & other stuff.

Now I have 32 wee rascals to entertain & educate to the best of my ability every Sat & Sun mornings & Tues & Thurs. evenings. It’s great fun & the parents are chuffed to bits with their improvement already.

I’m not a qualified teacher & don’t promise any certificates for their efforts but I know in my heart I can give them some good experience to help them in life that perhaps they might never learn in a governed curriculum.

I got them all to scour the village for plastic, glass, alloy cans etc. for us to recycle as well as helping tidy the village. It was a good laugh & a good education in counting, weighing & making money. We raised over 1600Bt.

Last week I printed 150 letters appraised by the village chief for the kids to post around the village asking for anything they could donate for a 2^nd hand market to raise our funds. We made over 7000Bt on Sunday morning!

Now our little school has a bank account with over 13000Bt.

Anybody want to tell me Thai villagers are lazy & don’t want to help themselves? You are sooooooo WRONG! Or perhaps I just happen to live in a very special village.

This weekend we’re going camping to the lake. I’ve got 32 really excited kids who can’t wait. Another new experience & education for them.

We plan in December to hire a coach & take them a trip to the seaside. Can you imagine the stories they will have to tell their parents, of whom the majority have never left Meaung Loei.

Hopefully we have lots more educational fun to enjoy in the future.

So before I rest my case I’ll tell you who I am…

I’m Joe. Just a carpenter from Scotland who knows that little things can make a big difference & all big things start with little things.

Ps. I’ve just found out we’re going to have a baby of our own! Exuberance is the understatement of the century in our case! Yippee!

That’s all folks!

From one blether to another, an absolutely superb post Sir.

I prefer do-gooders over do-nothings, and your doing a little bit at a time to help people help themselves, that's always the best way.

There's a level of cynicism directed at do-gooders, and to be honest some is deserved, there are plenty of people out there who are doing well financially out of charities, awarding themselves fat salaries, and plenty of others who are stroking their own egos. In saying that there are plenty more who work hard every day for the right reasons and it's a pity the first category of feather bedders casts doubt on the second category.

Just one quick story though, Ann Gloag, the Scottish co-owner of the transport company Stagecoach, sent 5,000 blankets to a hospital she was equipping in some African country ( I forget where ), she arrived two weeks later with more supplies to find all the blankets stolen. She was rightly furious and she now puts all her effort in Mercy Ships

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy_Ships

As she figures that if she is going to put the effort in, a ship is the safest place to donate goods and supplies. At least they have a chance of being used by the intended recipients.

There's always some greedy bastid waiting to put their hand in the honey pot, and ripping off charities is low form to say the least.