12 Foreign Tourists Arrested On "visa Run"

[lopburi3]

Shouldn't take 24 hours to pass through. This is the same section of the laws that the 90 day reporting arose from the ashes so probably the less said the better.

[elkangorito]

It looks like the blood lusting control freaks are a majority (sadly). It's a sad statement for humanity.

Nonetheless, I'll try to be a "perfect" human & therefore join the ranks of the control freaks...NOT!!!!!

You people are narrow minded, unforgiving & generally intolerant. I expect racist remarks very soon from some of you. Thank god I'm not one of your kids. You lazy beggars are just unbelievable. Personal responsibility is something one gains from NOT following the law but from constantly questioning the reality of an issue. Since all of you "good doers" rely upon the law to make your decisions for you, you therefore have NO personal responsibility. It's so easy to quote laws. It's so easy to be a perfect citizen if you CAN follow the law. I do not know one human yet who has been so perfect as to have not coc*ed up with regard to the law.

By the way, none of you will convince me that you are "clean". On your deathbed, if it can be proven, if you have a totally "clean" slate, I'll kiss my bum to the moon & back if you haven't broken a "LAW". But don't forget, this only applies after you die. There is no such thing as a "perfectly law abiding" living human.

Change the record mate. All you have done throughout this thread is call people 'red necks' or 'control freaks' if they dared to disagree with your view, which seems to be that laws should not be obeyed, but left to individuals to interpret as they see fit, and that if you follow laws you are some sort of mindless robot.

Whilst I agree with you that some laws are daft and should be challenged, the issue here, in my opinion, is not the law itself, which is reasonable, but the penalties applied to the 12, and the general inconsistency surrounding it.

Of course no-one in here is 'clean' as you describe it. Everyone has broken some law in their time. So what. What is your point? That they would complain if they were caught and punished for it? Most people would grumble, of course. That is human nature.

I think you are out of order coming on here and accusing the majority of us of being 'blood lusting control freaks'. And why would you be expecting racist remarks soon?? Are you accusing posters on here of being racist now also?

Your point of view is interesting and adds something different to the thread, or it would if you were more constructive in your arguments and stopped calling people names.

How more constructive can I be? (read previous posts). Also, the 'red necks' & 'blood lusting' freaks of whom I speak, are the posters who simply, blindly & monotonously state that 'the law is the law' & otherwise rave on with such simplistic remarks. Also, I am not accusing posters of being racist. As you said, "And why would you be expecting racist remarks soon??", quickly followed by, "Are you accusing posters on here of being racist now also?" I have noticed that generally if someone raves on with the same old chant "the law is the law", they generally DO NOT THINK! This is congruent with the fact that "the law does the thinking for them". Most of these "law abiding" citizens end up as having extremist attitudes toward people like Muslims etc. Such is the case in Australia. These people sit back & quote "laws" & then rave on about things like "those muslims are destroying our community". This 'painting with the same brush' attitude is common amongst non-thinking, law "demanding" citizens.

Anyway, if you have "included yourself' in amongst the blood lusting freaks, then this is something YOU have decided....not me.

The whole argument here seems to be about human error. As soon as I have typed these words, there will be people who will be happy to say such things as, "you must read the stamp" & "there is no excuse for ignorance" & "forgetting your wallet is no excuse".

As you said, NOBODY is clean. However, to concede to this argument in some way, I do believe that the immigration laws need to be rationalised (in Thaland? Can this happen? One hopes & tries) to preclude the non-serious offenders.

You quoted, "laws should not be obeyed, but left to individuals to interpret as they see fit, and that if you follow laws you are some sort of mindless robot."

Is this not the case in reality? Following laws, especially the questionable ones, IS robotic. It takes a true respect for the law to question the unfair laws. If everybody sat around & "obeyed" (yeah, right) every law, the world would be a horrible place in which to live.

My argument is simple....there are obviously flaws in the current Thai immigration laws. It will take QUESTIONING & ARGUMENT to solve these discrepencies & not not "mindless" following of these flawed laws.

Edited February 23, 2006 by elkangorito

[zzap]

In order to make racist remarks, we would need to know which race you belong to first.

Btw, you are a bit of an irritating fellow...

[leti]

… or soften the regualtion so that an offender can go to an immigration office, pay a fine and get maybe 3 days extension to legally leave the country.

According to what I have read on this forum, this possibility exists already. If you find yourself accidentally on overstay, go to the nearest Immigration office, volunteer to pay the overstay fine and apply for an extension, whereby 10 days extension is usually granted to holders of a 30-day stamp on arrival, for a fee of THB 1,900.

Lopburi, correct me if I’m wrong.

---------------

Maestro

not correct.

after overstay no more possibility for visa extension!

Pay overstay--200Baht--get out of thailand--get back into thailand--use your entry visa-- enjoy thailand-- and so on...

[zzap]

I have witnessed extensions given to people who overstayed and went to immigration.

However, the extension will start from the date your visa expired, not when you turn yourself in. So, if you already overstayed 10 days or more on a 30 days stamp, or more than 30 on a tourist visa, then no further extension.

[StateSix]

How more constructive can I be? (read previous posts). Also, the 'red necks' & 'blood lusting' freaks of whom I speak, are the posters who simply, blindly & monotonously state that 'the law is the law' & otherwise rave on with such simplistic remarks. Also, I am not accusing posters of being racist. As you said, "And why would you be expecting racist remarks soon??", quickly followed by, "Are you accusing posters on here of being racist now also?" I have noticed that generally if someone raves on with the same old chant "the law is the law", they generally DO NOT THINK! This is congruent with the fact that "the law does the thinking for them". Most of these "law abiding" citizens end up as having extremist attitudes toward people like Muslims etc. Such is the case in Australia. These people sit back & quote "laws" & then rave on about things like "those muslims are destroying our community". This 'painting with the same brush' attitude is common amongst non-thinking, law "demanding" citizens.

Anyway, if you have "included yourself' in amongst the blood lusting freaks, then this is something YOU have decided....not me.

The whole argument here seems to be about human error. As soon as I have typed these words, there will be people who will be happy to say such things as, "you must read the stamp" & "there is no excuse for ignorance" & "forgetting your wallet is no excuse".

As you said, NOBODY is clean. However, to concede to this argument in some way, I do believe that the immigration laws need to be rationalised (in Thaland? Can this happen? One hopes & tries) to preclude the non-serious offenders.

You quoted, "laws should not be obeyed, but left to individuals to interpret as they see fit, and that if you follow laws you are some sort of mindless robot."

Is this not the case in reality? Following laws, especially the questionable ones, IS robotic. It takes a true respect for the law to question the unfair laws. If everybody sat around & "obeyed" (yeah, right) every law, the world would be a horrible place in which to live.

My argument is simple....there are obviously flaws in the current Thai immigration laws. It will take QUESTIONING & ARGUMENT to solve these discrepencies & not not "mindless" following of these flawed laws.

The guys who 'blindly and monotonously state that 'the law is the law'' are as much non-thinkers as those who blindly and monotonously state that the law is wrong and whoever follows it is a redneck, blood lusting racist.

You can question laws without necessarily breaking them. Just because you follow a law does not mean that you are some sort of non thinking robot. Do you believe that if you perceive a law as unfair you do not have to follow it? Surely that would make the world a much more horrible place to live.

As I have stated numerous times already, the law in this case is not the issue, it is the fact that the penalty for it has not been applied consistently, ie many overstayers in this situation have been allowed on their way to pay a fine, whereas in this case they were arrested and threatened with deportation . Do you agree on that? If this law was applied consistently, with the immigration/police officers and the courts able to use common sense in dealing with it would you be happier? In the case of someone stopped on, say, Silom Road and is found to be on a 18 month overstay, do you believe it is wrong for them to be arrested and possibly deported?

The whole argument here is not necessarily human error as you assert. It is partly incompetence on the behalf of the immigration officers who allegedly advised one of the 12 to just do a visa run and pay an overstay fine. Regarding the rest of them, we cannot be sure if they genuinely made a mistake or cynically decided to overstay for a couple of days or so.

As I said before you have an interesting point of view but your constant use of 'these people', 'most', 'generally' indicates that it is you who has a ' 'painting with the same brush' attitude'. You also come across as being very abrasive with your constant name calling.

In my experience a significant number of those people who complain that the law is wrong, and that following it is for mindless idiots, are also the ones who cry the loudest when they are the victim of a crime, and start demanding that whole divisions of officers go and arrest the alleged suspect.

BTW I do NOT include myself amongst the 'blood lusting freaks', thank you very much

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I was only trying to be helpful, explaining the 'discrepancies' you didn't understand.

Let me try again:

Your visa is issued to you on a certain day (often the date you apply for it if you go to the embassy in person). This date is stamped onto your visa in your passport, following these words: "This visa must be utilised before..."

When you enter Thailand, nothing is changed, but you will get another stamp, which states the date of your arrival, followed by the words: "admitted until..." with another date stamp, which indicates the date you will have to leave Thailand.

Now please don't get angry with me again, because I only told you now, after the event, I apologise that I wasn't there at the time to hold your hand.

You be there next time. It was all your fault LOL

In order to make racist remarks, we would need to know which race you belong to first.

Btw, you are a bit of an irritating fellow...

He's not the sharpest tool in the shed

[espadablades]

What is going on here?

I see a great deal of Kiwis, OZ and Brits defending the inane laws of Thailand. And why is that?

Thailand makes it money from FLEECING farangs. Yeah they love farangs--they love the money. And that´s all they want.

It´s no wonder that Central America and South America are more likely to get the long term vistor. If you are fluent and are interesting they will value you--not see you as a money source.

And the sort of double standard obvious robbery, discrimination based system like Thailand would end up a cash winner to whomever wanted to cry fould in the courts in the US (where you cannot discriminate regardless if the person is a foreigner or an ILLEGAL--surprisingly the USA remains the easiest country, regardless of Bush, to stay and to work in illegaly in the world).

Come on people a 30 day pass that starts when your plane is supposed to have landed and not when you hit the customs? Let´s deal with the realities. Just another way to make you pay money.

I´ve lived in a lot of countries in the World (probably more than 99% of the people on this board) -and it really surprises me that so many people on here have become such haters of those that stand up for their rights and say--¨what is going on with this idiotic, discriminative rules and arbritary fine?¨

Isn´t it nice that it´s all about money? Farangs must be rich and be taken advantage of- (and of course they must smile and like the fact that they are getting screwed, riught?) You know that sort of behavior is not tolerated very well in many countries in the World-funny how that will land you in jail and in getting sued in court if you try that in the US, huh? or in some countries in Europe or even shot if you try to overcharge someone in an inner city in the USA.

Yeah, it seems that those suck ups on here want everyone to just agree to do pay more, suffer more--all for the great pleasure of visiting or living in a third world country. I got news for you--the reason to live in a third world country is to pay less, to have restrictions--not the other way around. It´s not Paris, it´s not Madrid, it´s not Los Angeles, it´s not Amsterdam (all cities I have lived in that I´ve never encountered the sort of try to expect to take advantage of me mentality as I have in Thailand)

Come on---no wonder Panama is making so much more Ex Pat money than stand offish, greedy Thailand. It´s obscene to think that a taxi driver can try to EXTORT more money out of one farang in less than an hour than what a NORMAL THai makes in a month. Try that in the USA--you go to jail.

OK, start the typical narrow minded hater replies--instead of facing the truth and working to change it. Use that same logic that allowed Apartheid: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Never consider changing it, right?

Join the herd that Neitzsche predicted.

Edited March 8, 2006 by espadablades

[backflip]

"Use that same logic that allowed Apartheid: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT. "

This quote exemplifies your level of intellectual acuity. You should not have edited your post - you should have deleted it.

[Donz]

I have no idea why people choose to stay in Thailand if they dont like it.

If your married or something then yes i understand, but if your single then why stay there??

[kasi]

I have witnessed extensions given to people who overstayed and went to immigration.

However, the extension will start from the date your visa expired, not when you turn yourself in. So, if you already overstayed 10 days or more on a 30 days stamp, or more than 30 on a tourist visa, then no further extension.

This isn't always so.

I stupidly overstayed a 60 days tourist visa by 20 days and found out when I went to extend 30 days at Patong immigration. I paid the fine and the extension fee and received an additional 30 days beginning the day I paid the fine. Essentially I got a 50 day extension including the overstay.

Things are not black and white.

I don't recommend this procedure to anyone BTW!

[Joey Boy]

not correct.

after overstay no more possibility for visa extension!

Pay overstay--200Baht--get out of thailand--get back into thailand--use your entry visa-- enjoy thailand-- and so on...

Bullsh1t

[steveromagnino]

I see a great deal of Kiwis, OZ and Brits defending the inane laws of Thailand. And why is that?

Thailand makes it money from FLEECING farangs. Yeah they love farangs--they love the money. And that´s all they want.

It´s no wonder that Central America and South America are more likely to get the long term vistor. If you are fluent and are interesting they will value you--not see you as a money source.

And the sort of double standard obvious robbery, discrimination based system like Thailand would end up a cash winner to whomever wanted to cry fould in the courts in the US (where you cannot discriminate regardless if the person is a foreigner or an ILLEGAL--surprisingly the USA remains the easiest country, regardless of Bush, to stay and to work in illegaly in the world).

Come on people a 30 day pass that starts when your plane is supposed to have landed and not when you hit the customs? Let´s deal with the realities. Just another way to make you pay money.

OK, calm down.

First up, maybe you see various people defending the policies, and you think it is mostly 3 countries doing the defending. Somehow I don't think that is the case, especially given that Oz = prison TV show and Oz the country = a bunch of convicts

here are a bunch of reasons for the attraction of Central and Latin America, one being proximity to USA. I don't think you'll find it a particularly attractive destination for Asians, NZers or Australians though. The issue of getting caught overstaying affects at most I would estimate well less than 5% of all tourists. If you have proof of your theory, let's hear it.

Where is the discrimination in this system? You are a tourist? If you were a non-farang tourist you would get treated the same? What is this whole line of reasoning about?

In the USA, I can assure you that there is a different set of laws for citizens and non citizens regarding rights to work and so on. Discrimination is not allowed in the work place and that sort of thing; I am not a rights lawyer, but I know enough to to confused with your implying that somehow breaking the law then complaining about the fee/punishment is illegal in USA.

If you can explain EXACTLY what the charge is and the case in an American court, we can debate that, but as it stands now I am totally confused.

And the sort of double standard obvious robbery, discrimination based system like Thailand would end up a cash winner to whomever wanted to cry fould in the courts in the US (where you cannot discriminate regardless if the person is a foreigner or an ILLEGAL--surprisingly the USA remains the easiest country, regardless of Bush, to stay and to work in illegaly in the world).

USA the easiest country to overstay????? Proof please. Some of my family cannot probably even get a visa to get into the country!!! And don't waste our time with stats about number of overstayers, that says nothing about how easy it is to overstay.

Please also explain why USA laws are the most relevant to apply to Thailand as a standard, rather than some other country?

Come on people a 30 day pass that starts when your plane is supposed to have landed and not when you hit the customs? Let´s deal with the realities. Just another way to make you pay money.

The option is open to get a VISA (like what I need when I visit USA ) and then you can stay longer... Thailand is pretty good as far as visa on arrival goes. Why, you want them to serve you some coffee and cheese too>? afaik you get the 30 days starting when you pass through clearance; has NOTHING to do with your plane arriving. Are you SURE you have your facts right?

It´s obscene to think that a taxi driver can try to EXTORT more money out of one farang in less than an hour than what a NORMAL THai makes in a month. Try that in the USA--you go to jail.

Please explain where these taxi drivers earning on average 7,000baht + per ride.... I am clearly in the wrong business.

I strongly suspect that your travels to other western countries have not managed to impart sufficient wisdom for you to live in Asia. I won't say love it or leave it. I would say learn some manners (re-read what you have written) and take the 'I just arrived sign' off your back, and maybe, just maybe, you'll discover it isn't that bad here.

Hardly any tourists overstay. There are a multitude of things that Thailand could do to better look after tourists, but overstay fines and procedures would not rank in the top 10 things.

Incidentally, I say screw the overstayers. Cut the number of tourists down or at least stop aiming for quantity, get rid of overstay problem with a 2 year blacklist upon overstay of more than say 7 days, upgrade tourist industry (which will have to happen if the tourist gravy train stops) and keep Thailand actually interesting for tourists by not turning everything into <deleted> markets, beer bars and beach resorts.

And if you really do feel fleeced, then go to South America. Don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out

[sanook1]

Has anybody heard about the three visa runs followed by a compulsary 90 day outside the country? I'm ok on a work permit but I know that when I arrived 10 years ago I spent about 2 years doing tourist visa runs before finding my feet. I guess its harder these days.

Police arrest 12 on Ranong ‘visa run’

RANONG: -- Twelve foreign tourists were pulled off a “visa run” bus just 40 miles from Ranong and confined to a jail cell overnight for overstaying their visas.

The company that arranged the tour claims that the arresting officers, from the Tourist Police and Highway Police, demanded 5,000 baht from each of the overstayed tourists in exchange for letting them go. The police strenuously deny this.

Six officers waved over the well-known “Big Bus” run by Phenpat Co Ltd at about 11 am yesterday morning in Ranong’s Kapoe District. The officers inspected the passports of the 34 foreign passengers and found that 12 had overstayed their visas.

They separated the 12 from the others, who were allowed to continue on to Ranong. The 12 were taken off in a police truck and confined in the local police cells.

Jutarat Payonchart, an emplo yee of Phenpat Co Ltd, told the Gazette from the Ranong courthouse this afternoon that the police had overreacted by incarcerating the visa runners.

“Why did they have to keep them overnight in a cell? These aren’t illegal aliens trying to hide out in the country,” she asked, adding that most were just one- or two-day overstays. The maximum overstay was just 12 days, she added.

K. Jutharat said she was preparing to pay fines for those who had not brought along enough money to cover the unexpected expense – but by 5:30 pm the following day they were still at Ranong Provincial Court trying to pay the fines.

One of those arrested, a 31-year-old Australian man whose 30-day tourist visa expired the day before, told the Gazette: “It was terrible. I am so dirty now – I need to change my clothes. We didn’t have any information.

“It was crap. The pol ice are hospitable in a way, but they don’t give us any information. They say we broke the law and all this stuff.

“In my case, on Tuesday I went to [Phuket] Immigration and said, ‘This is the last day of my visa, it expires tomorrow, what should I do?’ and they said, ‘Go and do a visa run tomorrow and pay a 200 baht overstay.’

“That’s exactly what I [was doing], but then we get pulled over by the Tourist Police and Highway Police and they make a huge problem for us,” he said.

He added that he found it dangerous and embarrassing to be forced to squat in the back of a cramped, hot police truck, which transported the overstayers along the highway with a police escort, sirens blaring.

The unexpected delay had also caused him to missed his flight out of the country, he said.

Pol Maj Songproad Sirikul, the new head of the Ranong Tourist Po lice, told the Gazette that his office had received a report that a business was assisting illegal aliens by bringing them to Burma. He said he ordered his men to check into this and, when they did, it turned out to be true.

“The police arrested them because they broke the law,” he said.

He denied K. Jutarat’s claims that the officers asked for 5,000 baht from each tourist in exchange for letting them go.

“I think that’s impossible. I can guarantee that the Tourist Police officers did not ask for money because we are not in trouble [financially] and I constantly remind them to not do that.

“If the visa runners have any witnesses or other evidence as to which officer asked for money, they should contact me direct,” he said.

Source: The Phuket Gazette 2006-02-09

[Mosha]

When the pocket rocket and myself were in Ranong immigration last week, one idiot there was arguing the toss over how much he should pay. He had overstayed by a day and should only pay 20 Baht while they were patiently saying 400 for first day and then 200 after the 2nd day. I think they were saying the first day or 2 is 400B wether you over stay by 1 or 2 days. Fer god's sake he was getting all heated for 200B. If the cells there weren't full of the Burmese illegals he might have been offered one

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Some of 'em are less than bright aren't they ?

[Vespa]

====================

You're definately NO Einstein; where do you get off, listing "Gay People" in the same line-up with "Killers", Aids-Patients" etc ? ? ? ? ?

Go and smell some roses, mate ! !

Maybe they are only Gay in prison ?

ehh Mate - does that make it easier for you to swallow

Edited September 12, 2006 by Vespa