12 Foreign Tourists Arrested On "visa Run"

[Anon999]

Seems to be there's a lot of hot air, from numerous sources, about this topic. If people insist on knowingly booking a flight more than 30 days after their arrival then it's stupidity. If they intend to stay more than 30 days it does not cost a fortune to get a 90 day visa before leaving (the UK), can't comment about the RoW. Without a return ticket you're not going to be very welcome at immigration so there seems to be no excuse.

EOQ

Many farangs once here change plans. I am not talking about normal 2 week tourists but those maybe staying about 2 months and finding that they need an extra 2-5 days.

Its not a matter they can 'afford' as farang the money, they feel ripped off and cheated when they see what they get charged for a few days extra. If Thailand wants repeat visitors, this is the way to make them go elsewhere... Some did and spend the last week somewhere else...

Next quote...

However, if due to unforseen circumstances, accident or illness, etc. overstaying becomes inevitable and it is not possible to travel then some form of leeway would be sensible, providing there was supporting evidence like a hospital receipt.

EOQ

I had this once, check with local immigration as it likely (!!!) needs a signed letter from a government hospital (ie not the international ones where fleece the farangs) and you will also likely have to do it in BKK in headoffice. Be aware that they know ALL the details, ie where visum bought, how much, how long and they are quite accustomed to having stupid visitors trying to lie their way out. DONOT try it...

Start Quote

For those deliberately overstaying then maybe 500 baht fine for the first day increasing by 500 baht/day until they leave, but that information should be made clear on ARRIVAL. For farangs 500 baht is peanuts. For a weeks overstay that is £200. How much was the airport tax in their home country about £100?

EOQ

I get pissed off by people saying whats cheap for farangs. You want tourists or rippoffed customers.

Whats in their pockets is not the business of any Thai...

Anyway, I havent had to leave the country now in many years and I hope it stays that way!

The law sux...everywhere. SAme in Europe / USA..

Firstly these overstayers were probably tourists as they make up the bulk of the visitors. They are entitled to stay for 30 days anyway. "Feeling ripped off and cheated" for blatantly ignoring the limit of your welcome is crass stupidity and asking for trouble, as is booking a return flight after the expiry date and making no attempt to extend your visa before it EXPIRES .

First paragraph says get a 90 day visa if booking a return flight >30 days. So staying 2 months or 12 months is not problem as there is plenty of time beforehand to get an extension if you can.

Can't see what your argument is about having to furnish credible evidence for an overstay. Where did I suggest people should try and lie their way out?

A 200 baht/day fine is no deterent at all. WE TALKING ABOUT VISITORS WHO DELIBERATELY OVERSTAY. You're not a visitor so what's your problem?

Tracer I suggest you read my post properly before firing off next time.

The only thing I can agree with you about is that the law sucks everywhere.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Anon999

[sua yai]

Seems to be there's a lot of hot air, from numerous sources, about this topic. If people insist on knowingly booking a flight more than 30 days after their arrival then it's stupidity. If they intend to stay more than 30 days it does not cost a fortune to get a 90 day visa before leaving (the UK), can't comment about the RoW. Without a return ticket you're not going to be very welcome at immigration so there seems to be no excuse.

EOQ

Many farangs once here change plans. I am not talking about normal 2 week tourists but those maybe staying about 2 months and finding that they need an extra 2-5 days.

Its not a matter they can 'afford' as farang the money, they feel ripped off and cheated when they see what they get charged for a few days extra. If Thailand wants repeat visitors, this is the way to make them go elsewhere... Some did and spend the last week somewhere else...

Next quote...

However, if due to unforseen circumstances, accident or illness, etc. overstaying becomes inevitable and it is not possible to travel then some form of leeway would be sensible, providing there was supporting evidence like a hospital receipt.

EOQ

I had this once, check with local immigration as it likely (!!!) needs a signed letter from a government hospital (ie not the international ones where fleece the farangs) and you will also likely have to do it in BKK in headoffice. Be aware that they know ALL the details, ie where visum bought, how much, how long and they are quite accustomed to having stupid visitors trying to lie their way out. DONOT try it...

Start Quote

For those deliberately overstaying then maybe 500 baht fine for the first day increasing by 500 baht/day until they leave, but that information should be made clear on ARRIVAL. For farangs 500 baht is peanuts. For a weeks overstay that is £200. How much was the airport tax in their home country about £100?

EOQ

I get pissed off by people saying whats cheap for farangs. You want tourists or rippoffed customers.

Whats in their pockets is not the business of any Thai...

Anyway, I havent had to leave the country now in many years and I hope it stays that way!

The law sux...everywhere. SAme in Europe / USA..

Firstly these overstayers were probably tourists as they make up the bulk of the visitors. They are entitled to stay for 30 days anyway. "Feeling ripped off and cheated" for blatantly ignoring the limit of your welcome is crass stupidity and asking for trouble, as is booking a return flight after the expiry date and making no attempt to extend your visa before it EXPIRES .

First paragraph says get a 90 day visa if booking a return flight >30 days. So staying 2 months or 12 months is not problem as there is plenty of time beforehand to get an extension if you can.

Can't see what your argument is about having to furnish credible evidence for an overstay. Where did I suggest people should try and lie their way out?

A 200 baht/day fine is no deterent at all. WE TALKING ABOUT VISITORS WHO DELIBERATELY OVERSTAY. You're not a visitor so what's your problem?

Tracer I suggest you read my post properly before firing off next time.

The only thing I can agree with you about is that the law sucks everywhere.

Thats a decent point about those who deliberately overstay.

Most of them are passing through and couldn't give a ###### if for 1 or 2 days.

The point they're missing is that they've broken the law.

Most of these "crusties" have just come off a beach somewhere and walk around knowing they've transgressed imm laws, but couldn't care less because it was only "for a short while".

Welcome to the real world.

[sriracha john]

Who tipped off the tourist police that the company was assisting illegal aliens into Burma. Could it be one of the other "visa run" companies?? I have done one organised visa run before deciding not to put my life in the hands of some he11 bent speed freak.The first thing they made clear was that they would not accept overstays on board because of the hold ups at immigration. Maybe some companies are a bit pizzed off with the hold ups this company are creating with overstayers and decided to put an end to it themselves. Just a thought.

nice conspiracy theory, but if you've ever been through a police checkpoint on Thailand roads, they pull over every vehicle that matches the "target de jeur"... in this case, bus or van loads of people, particularly if they are foreigners onboard.

[aqua4]

Who tipped off the tourist police that the company was assisting illegal aliens into Burma. Could it be one of the other "visa run" companies?? I have done one organised visa run before deciding not to put my life in the hands of some he11 bent speed freak.The first thing they made clear was that they would not accept overstays on board because of the hold ups at immigration. Maybe some companies are a bit pizzed off with the hold ups this company are creating with overstayers and decided to put an end to it themselves. Just a thought.

nice conspiracy theory, but if you've ever been through a police checkpoint on Thailand roads, they pull over every vehicle that matches the "target de jeur"... in this case, bus or van loads of people, particularly if they are foreigners onboard.

You are correct, however they never use to pull off visa busses to check for overstayers in any event. BTW, they is not the first but the second one that I had heard of. The first time I heard of something to this effect was in Novemeber last year near the Poi Pet border. Same MO.

Edited February 10, 2006 by aqua4

[sriracha john]

Siripakorn Cheawsamoot, Assistant Director of TATs Region 4 Office in Phuket, said he believed the arrests would have no impact on tourism as long they were legal.

Foreign tourists would be more confident of their safety if they knew they the police were carrying out their duties strictly according to the law, he added.

You're absolutely correct, Khuh Siripakorn. I'm sure these 12 will return home with glowing reports of how wonderful their time in Thailand was.

The reports of their ordeal in the press is also likely to spread far and wide via blogs, forums, etc. about how well they were all treated, despite commiting their horrendous and vile offense.

Actually, it's all part of TAT's creating the new hub of tourism abatement.

[sanget]

You have to believe that individuals who overstay know they are breaking the law. Why should Thailand be any different from any other country? If you come to the US and overstay, you can be expected to be picked up and arrested. That always means a stay in jail. No Pity for any of these scofflaws.

[elkangorito]

I believe that the main point of contention here is about the suspected extortion of the parties in question. I'm sure that no tourist would mind the police stopping them & conducting legitimate passport checks. Oh, before I forget, somebody wrote that in Australia, overstayers are treated harshly. This is not quite correct. Those treated harshly in Australia have normally been in trouble with the law before. The only disgusting thing about Australian immigration law is that many people are placed into detention centres for endlessly long periods because they arrived here without an air ticket etc...but this is another story.

To simplistically say, "the law is the law" etc, does not address the issue as there are clearly 2 identified punishments for the 1 law. One of the punishments needs to be repealled (did I spell this word correctly?), which will therefore leave a clear & easily enforcable law. As it stands now, the known outcomes for this massive legal breach are simply not known.

Again, in order to provide fair treatment to all, disregarding ethnicity, race etc, the "law" needs to be clearly defined. This will also have the tendency to help reduce the incidence of corruption. I agree with sri racha John...these people will go home with "glowing" reports of Thailand, which will ultimately have an impact on Thai tourism. As tourist numbers decline, the corrupt money flow will reduce, which may stimulate the corrupt ones to step up their efforts until finally the tourist numbers are so small that the corrupt ones will turn to a more available & lucrative market.

Step 1) Pay all police a decent wage.

Step 2) Make them accountable for their actions by implementing enforcable & "clear" laws.

Step 3) Give them the proper resouces with which they can work.

Step 4) Everybody breaks laws. It is not realistic to have punishments that do not fit the crime. Imprisonment for a 1 day overstay is ludicrous & expensive for the Thai system. Allowing people to "fairly" pay for their minor oversight will help maintain goodwill & will provide an easy cashflow for the system.

I remember once I overstayed by about 9 days. This was because I couldn't understand the stamps or dates on stamps in my passport. Obviously I need to be jailed for not being able to understand somebody elses hand writing & bad stamping. As it turned out, Pattaya immigration were VERY nice to me & only wanted to help me have a trouble free stay in Thailand. This seems to be contrary to the police's idea.

[david96]

From the Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade-Australia.

Entry and Exit Requirements

Visa conditions change regularly. Contact the nearest Embassy or Consulate of Thailand for the most up to date information.

Make sure you obtain visas, entry permits and extensions of stay from Thai immigration authorities.

Avoid individuals advertising visa extension services, as they may stamp passports with fake or illegally obtained exit and entry stamps. Australians with illegal stamps in their passports can be arrested and jailed for up to ten years. Thai authorities have said they will vigorously prosecute these criminal offences.

Travellers who overstay their entry permits will not be allowed to leave Thailand until a fine is paid. The fine is currently 200 Baht per day. Travellers who have overstayed their visas long term have been imprisoned, deported and placed on an immigration blacklist to prevent them returning to Thailand

[thymode91]

it was a good lesson for them. Law is a law... try to make your visa in shape before its too late..

[sua yai]

This incident won't affect tourism adverserely in any way.

People coming here for 2/3 week holidays will continue to do so.

[gburns57au]

In australia if you overstay your visa you get locked up for years.

There was 1 case were we locked up a overstayer for more then 10 years

I overstayed 5 months in Australia - unintentionally. Didn't even know about it before I was walking through passport control at Brisbane airport when they pulled me over. Nothing happened except I was told orally that I couldn't return to Oz for 3 years. No papers signed or anything, just a discussion of why it had happened.

(I was a student and extended my studies by one semester and forgot to extend the student visa - my mistake)

A UK friend overstayed deliberately in Oz for over a year....he was dobbed in to Immigration...they gave him 2 weeks to produce an air ticket back to the UK and leave under his own steam with a 3 year ban on returning to Oz....or be taken into detention and deported with a 5 year ban and to repay the costs.

[zzap]

Let me say it again:

The issue here is that one is led to believe a few days overstay can be settled with a fine at the point of exit, by Thai immigration officials as well as certain embassies and travel guides. Very few people are aware of the gravity of the offence.

As long as there is no uniform stance amongst the Thai authorities in this regard, it is completely outrageous that anyone gets held up for days in a police cell.

BTW, anon99, there is no 90 days tourist visa, it's 60 days with a possible 30 days extension at an immigration office. Please inform yourself before advising others on legalities.

[MyNameIsFarang]

It's not reasonable for the Thais to be expected to construct a two-tiered immigration law with one set of rules for poor people from neighboring nations and quite another for relatively rich foreigners. Despite the protests of those incarcerated (and their misguided defenders here) the treatment of these detainees is as good or better than anything that would have befallen a poor Laotian or Burmese.

There are ample and well-publicized means for an individual to stay in compliance with Thai immigration law. Putting these people into jail is entirely appropriate as it prevents them from disappearing once more into the woodwork. Detaining them guarantees that they return to their home country at their own expense.

[elkangorito]

In Australia, I can purchase, for AUD$45.00, a 3 month tourist visa for Thailand (subject to me not having a criminal record etc). As a matter of fact, I can purchase up to 3 of these at the same time.

[lopburi3]

In Australia, I can purchase, for AUD$45.00, a 3 month tourist visa for Thailand (subject to me not having a criminal record etc). As a matter of fact, I can purchase up to 3 of these at the same time.

You can enter Thailand within 3 months but that visa will only get you 60 days to stay here. If you want to remain another 30 days you can extend it with a TM.7/photo and 1,900 baht at an immigration office.

[Sunny Valentine]

I think some people really miss the point in this discussion.

1.) Nobody knows for sure wether the overstayers were crusties or "genuine" tourists. I would consider it fair to think they were legitimate tourists.

2.) Fact is (has been discussed in this board several times) that there exists lots of confusion (not among us avid thaivisa.com forum posters, but among lots of other people travelling to Thailand) about the consequences of an Overstay. This confusion is also widespread among Thai officials, or foreign embassies in Thailand.

The handling of the rules concerning overstaying a Visa or permit to stay are incongruent, to say the least. I am not objecting the right of the Thai authorities to set up rules for foreigners staying here, what we can demand is that these rules are congruent, well published, made shure that their enforcers are trained about these rules; and that these rules are enforced in a sensible way, giving possibilities to adher to them even in cases outside the normal routines (i.e. illness).

To deport an overstayer for 1 or 2 days, even if he or she is showing that he does all he can to correct his mistake (by sitting in a Visa run bus heading to the border) is definitely a severe overreaction, as this is in no way related to the severity of the crime committed.

But I think this is one of the main problems with law and enforcement in Thailand: Nobody here really cares wether laws and regulations are consistent. If the authorities set up a new law, and someone finds out it contradicts and older rule, there is no public debate, leading to correction of the laws. They just decide to not enforce one of the rules.

Remember the ban of displaying cigarettes in stores? A retail company stated that they would violate a consumer protection regulation that requires them to show and price all merchandise they have in stock. They have just been told by the competent authorities that they won't enforce this old law.

Sunny

[Carmine6]

Let me say it again:

The issue here is that one is led to believe a few days overstay can be settled with a fine at the point of exit, by Thai immigration officials as well as certain embassies and travel guides. Very few people are aware of the gravity of the offence.

As long as there is no uniform stance amongst the Thai authorities in this regard, it is completely outrageous that anyone gets held up for days in a police cell.

BTW, anon99, there is no 90 days tourist visa, it's 60 days with a possible 30 days extension at an immigration office. Please inform yourself before advising others on legalities.

Everywhere I've seen visas discussed such as travel books and websites, it says you can pay a fine at the airport if you overstay, but don't get caught without a valid visa anywhere else or you could be jailed.

I don't think there are 2 different penalties depending on who catches you. At the airport someone is clearly leaving so holding them in jail pending a deportation hearing is pointless. In other places, the police can't just let someone go and hope they leave the country. This is routinely done in the US and surprisingly very few show for the hearing. Yes, they were on a bus heading for the border, but they were in violation of the law. 2/3 of the folks on the bus planned ahead enough.

If this happened to one of my friends, he'd get no sympathy from me, and probably a good laugh for being that stupid. Wouldn't scare me from going there again, just as this news makes no difference in me, or anyone I know visiting.

[Prakanong2005]

Latest I just read on another board is that they are now being deported.

If so it will be a rough ride from Ranong to the IDC then some will wait a long time for tickets and/or money.

As others have said - do not overstay unless in extenuating circumstances like documented illness - even for one day.

[lopburi3]

Yes, they were on a bus heading for the border, but they were in violation of the law. 2/3 of the folks on the bus planned ahead enough.

They were on a bus but they were not planning on leaving Thailand (for longer than a new stamp would take).

[PK Engineering]

But why did the Aussie that overstayed only 1 day wanted to do a visa run if he anyways has planned to leave the country 2 days later ????

He should have had better information

When I asked Chiang Mai Immigration the same question 6 months ago (I was returning to NZ and would have a two day overstay on my passport) they told me that I would just have to pay a small fine etc, but they did tell me that for whatever reason that if I was caught overstaying, i would be in doodoo.

Can somebody tell me why it should be allowed to break the law in our guest country? It's stated in anyones passport when to leave. So, a little bit pregnant is pregnant. My advice, just play according to the rules.

[rexall]

Seems to be there's a lot of hot air, from numerous sources, about this topic. If people insist on knowingly booking a flight more than 30 days after their arrival then it's stupidity.

Good point!

I have often felt there should be a law against stupid people! In fact, let's make it preventative rather than reactive. Before they get a chance to act stupidly, lets round up all the dumb-dumbs, and deal with them. But why bother with prison, extortion,rape and deportation? I say crucify the f*ckers! Erect some crosses along the highway, nail the bastards up, and hang signs around the criminals necks "This stupid person should have known better!"

That'll show the disrespectful, stupid scofflaws!

Well . . . It works for me!

Aloha,

Rex

Edited February 11, 2006 by rexall

[lingyai]

It's not reasonable for the Thais to be expected to construct a two-tiered immigration law with one set of rules for poor people from neighboring nations and quite another for relatively rich foreigners. Despite the protests of those incarcerated (and their misguided defenders here) the treatment of these detainees is as good or better than anything that would have befallen a poor Laotian or Burmese.

There are ample and well-publicized means for an individual to stay in compliance with Thai immigration law. Putting these people into jail is entirely appropriate as it prevents them from disappearing once more into the woodwork. Detaining them guarantees that they return to their home country at their own expense.

It is not reasonable?? how do you figure that? I would imagine 90%+ of the foreigners from countries like Japan, UK, USA, etc will not try to stay and work in Thailand once they get here. They will have their vaction, spend their money and leave. On the other hand many Cambodians, Burmese, etc will try to stay and work. That doesn't make them bad people, but it is reality that this is there intention. To have differnt rules for different people some cases is legitimate.

Some of the self righteousness and condemnation by those saying the law is the law in this forum seems to be espoused with almost a sadistic gleeful tone. Circumstances that are hard to predict happen, I understand why some people can be one or two days over. Get of you high horse I say to some here. I also say that I hope when you break the law by say speeding the authorities use extreme prejudice like was used in this case. Maybe have you car towed away right there on the spot after endangering lives with your driving.

Edited February 11, 2006 by lingyai

[rexall]

Can somebody tell me why it should be allowed to break the law in our guest country?

In this entire thread, I cannot find one instance where anyone was actually advocating that foreigners (or anyone else for that matter) be "allowed" to break the law. That seems to be a very narrow and limited interpretation of is discussion.

Aloha,

Rex

[Noel]

Some of the self righteousness and condemnation by those saying the law is the law in this forum seems to be espoused with almost a sadistic gleeful tone. Circumstances that are hard to predict happen, I understand why some people can be one or two days over. Get of you high horse I say to some here. I also say that I hope when you break the law by say speeding the authorities use extreme prejudice like was used in this case. Maybe have you car towed away right there on the spot after endangering lives with your driving.

A disgruntled habitual 30 day runner showing his solidarity perchance?

[tavarich]

Som Nam Na!

What the f*** is that ? Pathetic attempt to make a point in English speaking forum using thai phrase as sort of latin words of wisdom ?

Poshol ty na huy, dolboyob!

Mat Yazik

[rexall]

. . . Some of the self righteousness and condemnation by those saying the law is the law in this forum seems to be espoused with almost a sadistic gleeful tone . . .

It is easy to be stoic-from-a-distance about a draconian police response to an minor, administrative infraction. After a night in the "monkey house," I wonder how many of the finger wagging, tongue clucking, self-appointed nannies of the immigration cops would continue to be so self-righteous?

Aloha,

Rex

Edited February 11, 2006 by rexall

[skippy]

Som Nam Na!

What the f*** is that ? Pathetic attempt to make a point in English speaking forum using thai phrase as sort of latin words of wisdom ?

Poshol ty na huy, dolboyob!

13) English language is the only acceptable language on thaivisa.com, except of course in the Thai Language Forum where Thai is encouraged.

plus it's against the Forum Rules.

[Carmine6]

. . . Some of the self righteousness and condemnation by those saying the law is the law in this forum seems to be espoused with almost a sadistic gleeful tone . . .

It is easy to be stoic-from-a-distance about a draconian police response to an minor, administrative infraction. After a night in the "monkey house," I wonder how many of the finger wagging, tongue clucking, self-appointed nannies of the immigration cops would continue to be so self-righteous?

Aloha,

Rex

Feel free to come down and throw bananas at me in the cage if it ever happens. As I don't consider this a minor administrative infraction, odds are low. I break laws all the time and when I've been caught, I've never bitched about the response. Luckily I've never been caught for something big. But now that I've grown into my paranoid years, I shy away from big legal risks.

[lordsux]

I just spoke to some friends that joined the mentioned visa bus in Khao Lak, (they didnt have to do a visa, just needed a ride to Ranong). They told me that only 2 of the 12 had the forethought of taking their possesions off the bus with them.

While the "criminals" were standing with the police at the roadside the visa bus pulls away and continues to Ranong with some empty seats and extra baggage.

Personally I think that someone from the visa service was involved with the police in this attempted scam. They collect the passports at the beginning of the trip, can see that there is a large number of overstayers, call their police friends and inform them of this. Bus gets stopped, people get the chance to pay 5000 baht or go to jail.

Its a scam that apparently didnt pay off and will cause a lot of red faces in both the immigration dept. and the police.

New "crackdown" on overstayers maybe?

[wilko]

I don't understand these comments......

He denied K. Jutarat’s claims that the officers asked for 5,000 baht from each tourist in exchange for letting them go.

“I think that’s impossible. I can guarantee that the Tourist Police officers did not ask for money because we are not in trouble [financially] and I constantly remind them to not do that.

So if they had been in financial trouble that would have been a different matter?

If he's constantly having to remind them not to do that, does that mean they are constantly forgetting not to?

Let me say it again:

The issue here is that one is led to believe a few days overstay can be settled with a fine at the point of exit, by Thai immigration officials as well as certain embassies and travel guides. Very few people are aware of the gravity of the offence.

As long as there is no uniform stance amongst the Thai authorities in this regard, it is completely outrageous that anyone gets held up for days in a police cell.

BTW, anon99, there is no 90 days tourist visa, it's 60 days with a possible 30 days extension at an immigration office. Please inform yourself before advising others on legalities.

Everywhere I've seen visas discussed such as travel books and websites, it says you can pay a fine at the airport if you overstay, but don't get caught without a valid visa anywhere else or you could be jailed.

I don't think there are 2 different penalties depending on who catches you. At the airport someone is clearly leaving so holding them in jail pending a deportation hearing is pointless. In other places, the police can't just let someone go and hope they leave the country. This is routinely done in the US and surprisingly very few show for the hearing. Yes, they were on a bus heading for the border, but they were in violation of the law. 2/3 of the folks on the bus planned ahead enough.

If this happened to one of my friends, he'd get no sympathy from me, and probably a good laugh for being that stupid. Wouldn't scare me from going there again, just as this news makes no difference in me, or anyone I know visiting.

something about....smile on the other side of your face ....the day when you end up on the receiving end of some over zealous officer....????