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BANGKOK 20 January 2019 14:09
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Bangkok Court Rules Authorities Killed Taxi Driver In 2010 Violence

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Clearly there are differences of opinion as to whether or not the force used by the military was appropriate or not but no one I think denies that some people died as a result of the army shooting live rounds. What accountability do "the authorities" actually have or rather, what authority do the courts have over "the authorities" that were at that period?

It seems a far stretch given that while orders permitting the use of live fire were issued and surely those at the top have bear some responsibility for this, this wouldn't exclude any wrong doings on the part of any individual soldier.

It is very clear that the soldiers shot civilians on they day.. But at the time was the issue of live ammo order from the authorities illegal?

Governments run on procedures and those procedures spell out the sequence of legal options or escalations for situations - such as public order, natural disasters etc. So two quick questions.

1) Was Abhisit following the legal procedure under the SoE for legal escalations to resort public order? If he wasn't and was acting issuing orders which have no legal framework or point of reference in Thai law then he is guilty and culpable.

2) If he was following the procedure then, since the riot, and the assuming of the position of government have PTP/UDD MPs sought to amended those procedures so that no current or future PM will be allowed to issue a live fire order on unarmed Thai protesters? Which wold be fantastic for Thailand democracy Or do they realize that as Thailand is a dangerous place and they feel more comfortable keeping that procedure and escalations as it is.

There seems to be a inherent contradictions here

Edited by jonclark
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Is this going to become like the nuremburg trials?

I expect the amount of legal thought that will have to be undertaken by judges to contribute to global warming.

Were the orders lawful or not? Sticky problem.

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Just wondering, has any individual or group been convicted of killing security personal in relation to the 2010 violence?

Not going to happen with Thaksin or his clone at the controls.sad.png

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Six to twelve months ago it was said that the DSI would concentrate on the 16 or so 'easy' cases first. We now see the results of those investigations.

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I don't think we need the courts to confirm that the army killed protesters that day. I think everyone agrees on that. We need the courts to decide if doing so was legal or illegal.

I wonder what would happen if:

A group of people robbed a bank. Half the group had guns, the other half didn't.

The police (or army) now surrounds the bank and a prolonged standoff takes place. Unfortunately things escalate and the group in the bank manage to kill a few bank employees.

The mayor, through the commanding police officer orders the police to end things by attacking the bank using only shields and batons. The policemen start laughing, and ask if the commanding officers seriously thinks any of them are going to attack men with guns using a baton?

The commanding officers gets the point, calls the mayor, who then orders first another warning to the bank robbers, and if they don't come out, then an attack using live fire.

The attack takes place, everyone is shooting left and right, policemen die, armed robbers die and unarmed robbers die (a taxi driver who thought it would be a good idea to join the action by running into the bank as well as a nosy cameraman who got too close die too). Most of the bank employees are saved though.

Afterwards the family of the robbers complain that the police have killed some of the unarmed robbers.

The above scenario, or something very similar, has happened plenty of times in many countries. Can anyone recall that it ever ended with the mayor being charged with murder?

In the above scenario I don't believe security forces would be ordered to indiscriminately shoot at bank robbers if lives of civilians were at risk so the comparison really is mute.

This wasn't a one off event but happened over a period of time and orders could have been changed if too many civilians were being killed.

But they weren't.

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Six to twelve months ago it was said that the DSI would concentrate on the 16 or so 'easy' cases first. We now see the results of those investigations.

Well 3 down 13 to go I guess?

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I guess bombs made from Red Bull bottles, burning of the World Trade Center and road blocks are ok then if you are wearing a red shirt.

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If a policeman shoots someone in the course of doing their job, is the PM liable?

As coppers here have guns, surely Yingluk is therefore liable for murder for anyone killed by police since she came to power.

Chalerm, with his law Phd, can answer this? Or can he?

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In the above scenario I don't believe security forces would be ordered to indiscriminately shoot at bank robbers if lives of civilians were at risk so the comparison really is mute.

This wasn't a one off event but happened over a period of time and orders could have been changed if too many civilians were being killed.

But they weren't.

Indiscriminate shooting? And they only manage to kill one person?

The other paper describes the scenario as a group of people approaching the soldiers lines in the dark letting off fire crackers. I never quite understood why the red shirts went out and attacked the soldiers well outside their fuel soaked barricades, but given that there were people shooting at the soldiers, it not surprising that a protester was shot in this scenario.

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