Germany 'exporting' Old And Sick To Foreign Care Homes (Incl. Thailand!)

[DILLIGAD]

The idea of developing aged care facilities for foreigners in Thailand is potentially a good one if planned and managed competently.

This article may be of interest & I also talk about the idea in this submission

I agree but why not outsource the Prison Services then use the savings on a more worthy section of society like the elderly?

Just my 2 penneth!!!

[hanuman2543]

Sounds like the Germans have started deportations again?

Do you really think that is funny? That is a very cheap joke and it shows very clear that you are a person lacking education and proper behaviour. You should apologize to every person who ever was deported by Nazi Germany and to every German. And the people who pressed the "like" button are the same a@#hole what you are. You should wish for some brain in the coming year.

Hang on in support of Beetlejuice, I cracked a joke along the same lines. In my defense I have a German father, and lets face it, it was ok for Germany to do this back in the 40s so having a joke about it isnt racist. Perhaps Beetlejuice has Jewish blood or Polish and the list goes on.

Water under the bridge.

If you think it is OK to make jokes about an incident that cost the lifes of more than 6 million people, that speaks volumes about you. Your level of understanding of history is near null. And I can see no excuse at all, even with your "German" father.

[chiangmaikelly]

I agree. If you require an old age home, this would be the place to be.

Really? Have you seen some of these residences? There are minimal occupational and physical therapy services available. Thailand does not have a cadre of geriatric care specialists. Unless one has a personal advocate to monitor care, one may end up sitting in a soiled diaper in deplorable conditions. Do you know what the treatment facilities are for those with age related dementia? To the best of my knowledge, unless one can pay a small fortune, there are none.

In any case I doubt Germany is sending its elderly to Asia. More likely to former east bloc locations in the Eu such as Poland and Hungary where German language services are available.

I agree. Thailand is not set up for this, people are not trained, etc.

I also don't believe all of the article. I don't think Germany is 'deporting' or exporting -- whatever the phrase was...its elderly to Asia. Philippines would be an option as the people are VERY well trained in these matters. Philippines has excellent training programs and the nurses are very caring. Czech Republic and Slovakia? I don't believe that. The Czechs and Slovaks don't do this kind of work. I lived in the Czech Republic for years and spent a great deal of time in Slovakia. Czech people don't clean their own toilets, they get Ukrainians to do it. I can't imagine them ever cleaning German peoples behinds. Spain does have these places. I have seen them. The people who do the dirty work are North Africans.

Thailand is set up for this and has been doing it for centuries. It's called taking care of grandma. Even the little kids know how to do it. You think the majority of old age homes in North America are big corporate places? Nope small family run businesses or small companies. Thailand is used to taking care of grandma and in the past 50 years has spawned an industry caring for older Farang men.

Edited December 29, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[thaibeachlovers]

I agree. If you require an old age home, this would be the place to be.

Really? Have you seen some of these residences? There are minimal occupational and physical therapy services available. Thailand does not have a cadre of geriatric care specialists. Unless one has a personal advocate to monitor care, one may end up sitting in a soiled diaper in deplorable conditions. Do you know what the treatment facilities are for those with age related dementia? To the best of my knowledge, unless one can pay a small fortune, there are none.

In any case I doubt Germany is sending its elderly to Asia. More likely to former east bloc locations in the Eu such as Poland and Hungary where German language services are available.

I agree. Thailand is not set up for this, people are not trained, etc.

I also don't believe all of the article. I don't think Germany is 'deporting' or exporting -- whatever the phrase was...its elderly to Asia. Philippines would be an option as the people are VERY well trained in these matters. Philippines has excellent training programs and the nurses are very caring. Czech Republic and Slovakia? I don't believe that. The Czechs and Slovaks don't do this kind of work. I lived in the Czech Republic for years and spent a great deal of time in Slovakia. Czech people don't clean their own toilets, they get Ukrainians to do it. I can't imagine them ever cleaning German peoples behinds. Spain does have these places. I have seen them. The people who do the dirty work are North Africans.

Thailand is set up for this and has been doing it for centuries. It's called taking care of grandma. Even the little kids know how to do it. You think the majority of old age homes in North America are big corporate places? Nope small family run businesses or small companies. Thailand is used to taking care of grandma and in the past 50 years has spawned an industry caring for older Farang men.

Well said, and correct about Thais looking after old people. As has been pointed out many times, Thailand does not have "care homes" for Thais. Their families look after them.

[thaibeachlovers]

I agree. If you require an old age home, this would be the place to be.

Really? Have you seen some of these residences? There are minimal occupational and physical therapy services available. Thailand does not have a cadre of geriatric care specialists. Unless one has a personal advocate to monitor care, one may end up sitting in a soiled diaper in deplorable conditions. Do you know what the treatment facilities are for those with age related dementia? To the best of my knowledge, unless one can pay a small fortune, there are none.

In any case I doubt Germany is sending its elderly to Asia. More likely to former east bloc locations in the Eu such as Poland and Hungary where German language services are available.

I agree. Thailand is not set up for this, people are not trained, etc.

I also don't believe all of the article. I don't think Germany is 'deporting' or exporting -- whatever the phrase was...its elderly to Asia. Philippines would be an option as the people are VERY well trained in these matters. Philippines has excellent training programs and the nurses are very caring. Czech Republic and Slovakia? I don't believe that. The Czechs and Slovaks don't do this kind of work. I lived in the Czech Republic for years and spent a great deal of time in Slovakia. Czech people don't clean their own toilets, they get Ukrainians to do it. I can't imagine them ever cleaning German peoples behinds. Spain does have these places. I have seen them. The people who do the dirty work are North Africans.

I hope you are not referring to Philipina nurses. They are trained to go overseas so they can send money home, not to stay in the Phillipines and wipe old people's bottoms.

I worked with many Phillipine nurses in Saudi and London.

As care homes are usually for profit organisations, they are not going to employ a graduate level nurse, in the Phillipines, to do the actual hands on work, though there should be at least one qualified nurse to dish out the meds and supervise.

[chiangmaikelly]

Thailand is changing. I know because my wife is making arrangements to enter an old folks home when she gets old because I have decided not to have children. She has told me that such places exist and they are good for two people. In other words after she dies her sister can have the apartment before it reverts back to the community. A lot of Thai women are making the same choice as they don't want to depend on the family anymore and prefer the idea of a semi independent community. It is a growing industry today in Thailand for Thai people.

[thaibeachlovers]

Personally I think the title: Germany 'exporting' old and sick to foreign care homes is The Guardian unworthy.

It's like they're talking about "exporting" articles, cattle or machinery.

We're talking HUMAN BEINGS here! The forefathers and -mothers of ourselves, our children and grandchildren! People we love but don't care for anymore.

In my (European) neighbourhood is an elderly home where they live and sleep in their own small apartments; I seldom notice children and grandchildren visit them

A respected British quality newspaper simply can't write about the sick and elderly, from ANY country, like they just did.

It's tendentious and not very British nor stylish.

I think that for the fast greying countries in Europe it would be a blessing that other Eastern European-, Asian- and Southern European countries open caring homes for the elderly.

It works in both directions: cheaper for the patients and governments in the greying countries and a blessing for the economies of the other countries.

The costs and salaries, caring for elderly in most countries are unbeareable and staff is hard to get or are overworked.

It would be a splendid idea to invest in luxury elderly villages in Thailand!

<salaries, caring for elderly in most countries are unbeareable and staff is hard to get or are overworked.>

Missed that before.

There is a reason for that, and if one has worked looking after old people ( I have ) one would know why!

Next time you go to visit your aged rellies in the care home. spare some appreciation for the staff, which do a job that probably none of you would, at twice your income.

[Time Traveller]

Sounds like it's a positive for all countries!

[BillyBobThai]

After my heart attack in 2003 I have noticed some some brian damage and it seems to be getting worse and I wonder if it is Alzimers. I have been maried to a wonderful Thai women for 8 years now and have explained what I think is going on to her on several occasions. Being from the U.S. and currently on Socal Security, and having a house, truck and motercycle that are all paid for, she should have no trouble money wise. Being a Viet Nam vet, she should get a small, 15 to 20 thousand baht for the rest of her life.

My only hope is that she takes care of me when I can no longer do so, or until I either die or opt out. My older brother who lived in Pattaya for 12 years had a stroke and had prepared for it by getting morphine tabs from his Dr each month for 7 years. The Dr would only give him 3 tabs a month, but after 7 years was more than enough to do the job. On his last night out, he went with friends to a bar and had a large bottle of Sang Som and went back to his room and took his supply of meds. Next day he was gone. His choice.

I would rather go like this than a long lingering death.

[LaoPo]

After my heart attack in 2003 I have noticed some some brian damage and it seems to be getting worse and I wonder if it is Alzimers. I have been maried to a wonderful Thai women for 8 years now and have explained what I think is going on to her on several occasions. Being from the U.S. and currently on Socal Security, and having a house, truck and motercycle that are all paid for, she should have no trouble money wise. Being a Viet Nam vet, she should get a small, 15 to 20 thousand baht for the rest of her life.

My only hope is that she takes care of me when I can no longer do so, or until I either die or opt out. My older brother who lived in Pattaya for 12 years had a stroke and had prepared for it by getting morphine tabs from his Dr each month for 7 years. The Dr would only give him 3 tabs a month, but after 7 years was more than enough to do the job. On his last night out, he went with friends to a bar and had a large bottle of Sang Som and went back to his room and took his supply of meds. Next day he was gone. His choice.

I would rather go like this than a long lingering death.

Alzheimer's Disease is every one's fear, growing older, and it's a horrible disease; the problem is that the one who gets Alzheimer doesn't realize it anymore once the disease has gotten into a state where he/she doesn't recognize anyone anymore.

The problem is than more with the loved ones, taking care of the patient, or not.....but it's a terrible burden if you have to take care of somebody who doesn't know you anymore.

There is no more "reward" or someone to say "thank you" whilst you deserve it..

Your elder brother seemed to have understand that he wanted to avoid a long and probably painful road to his last sigh but not everybody is the same or could do the same as your brother but having a nice drink of Sang Som and evening out with your friends, knowing you're saying farewell, sounds pretty nice to me.

The nightmare of spending years in an elderly home is probably worse than getting Alzheimer and be able to have a last bottle of Sang Som in a bar with your friends and/or loved ones.

Who knows?

Famous Belgian writer, author and filmmaker Hugo Claus decided to go that way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Claus#Death

PS: I hope your wife will take good care of you!

Edited December 29, 2012 by LaoPo

[Gaccha]

I agree. If you require an old age home, this would be the place to be.

Really? Have you seen some of these residences? There are minimal occupational and physical therapy services available. Thailand does not have a cadre of geriatric care specialists. Unless one has a personal advocate to monitor care, one may end up sitting in a soiled diaper in deplorable conditions. Do you know what the treatment facilities are for those with age related dementia? To the best of my knowledge, unless one can pay a small fortune, there are none.

In any case I doubt Germany is sending its elderly to Asia. More likely to former east bloc locations in the Eu such as Poland and Hungary where German language services are available.

My snide remark of course would be to mention Pattaya is a place for ........... but, it's christmas time and I am overcome with goodwill.

I saw a german TV documentary on one of these made-for-germans care homes in Thailand. The service level was extraordinary. One nurse for each patient 24 hours a day. A beautiful setting with old style thai architecture and a canal to swim in every morning. I was stunned. There was even a nice wine bar for those moonlight evenings.

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[rene123]

I think if I got old and sick then I would want to move to Thailand. I could afford to hire some nice nurse to look after me and be a friend rather than lay alone in some hospital ward like the sick and aged do in other countries. And, when needed, hospital care in Thailand is excellent and relatively inexpensive.

[whiteman]

I think if I got old and sick then I would want to move to Thailand. I could afford to hire some nice nurse to look after me and be a friend rather than lay alone in some hospital ward like the sick and aged do in other countries. And, when needed, hospital care in Thailand is excellent and relatively inexpensive.

I married to a nurse so I am well looked after also she got a masters in looking after the older person + a masters in Teaching english as a 2nd language which she nows does so that she can be with me.

Oh by the way I am only 65 and still going strong but then again nothing wrong with future planning is there?

[lounger]

They can export me to Thailand any time they want - the sooner the better

I wonder if it's possible to go back to UK, act ill and infirm and request as a money saving exercise to the British Government, they send me to be cared for in Thailand.......all expenses paid?

Probably would be wise to hide your assets first.

"Probably would be wise to hide your assets first" (posted by Kennedy not me)

They're already hidden!

But I cant remember where, which is why I'm in this mess.

[rene123]

"Probably would be wise to hide your assets first" (posted by Kennedy not me)

They're already hidden!

But I cant remember where, which is why I'm in this mess.

Thanks for the laugh. I can idendify with that problem. When I left my home locked up in Canada I hid all the keys to various things I don't want stolen by some burgler. Now I can't remember where I put them. Years ago I hid the key to my motorcycle in a book, and then forgot which book.

[pacovl46]

Well, let's face it. Meager retirement payments go a much longer way in Thailand than they go in Germany. I'd prefer Thailand over Germany to spend the autumn of my life any time of the day!!! ;-)

[Ulysses G.]

I'd prefer Thailand over Germany to spend the autumn of my life any time of the day!!! ;-)

I would too, but I've lived here for more than 20 years because Thailand is where I want to be.

IMO, the reason that there is so much complaining on Thai Visa is because of narrow-minded old farts that only came here to save money and much rather be back home if they could afford it.

I much rather be here, no matter what my financial situation.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Lancelot]

With the state of health care limbo in the USA, I wouldn't be suprised if thsi strategy was used in the USA. Currently however, Medicare, the US government payer health insurance for those over 65 does not pay for services rendered outside of the USA.

That could change though

[Potosi]

The compulsory German health insurance is valid within the EU, a handful of other countries, and in Asia Turkey only. Not in Thailand, so I don't think the elderly can be deported here. If it would (never going to happen because Thailand hasn't a compulsory insurance keeping the price for healthcare tolerable), and the German nursing insurance paying up to 700 Euro per month could be used to get private care, Thailand could become interesting. Many elderly expats are nursed by their spouses, which do a really good job. However, healthy or not expat, note that your life expectancy will very much align to the one of the Thai people, and that's many years less than in the West.

[oldsailor35]

They can export me to Thailand any time they want - the sooner the better

I wonder if it's possible to go back to UK, act ill and infirm and request as a money saving exercise to the British Government, they send me to be cared for in Thailand.......all expenses paid?

Try if you like, but i daresay that it will you who is the one considered "old and senile" so be careful they don't grab you and put you somewhere you did'nt expect to be !

[thaibeachlovers]

"Probably would be wise to hide your assets first" (posted by Kennedy not me)

They're already hidden!

But I cant remember where, which is why I'm in this mess.

Thanks for the laugh. I can idendify with that problem. When I left my home locked up in Canada I hid all the keys to various things I don't want stolen by some burgler. Now I can't remember where I put them. Years ago I hid the key to my motorcycle in a book, and then forgot which book.

I too, have that problem. I keep thinking at the time that I must have a better system, but when it comes to it, I forget to implement the better system, LOL.

I am so terrified that I will forget my safe combination that I have written it down, but also terrified I'll forget where I wrote it.

[thenervoussurgeon]

I think i have seen a lot of these elderly German gentelmen who are being looked after here in Pattaya ,they usually wear very loud shirts with long shorts and are being led by the arm by young ladies ,you can see many of them around soi6 and soi7. they also seem to reside around the Naklua area.

[Chao Lao Beach]

I reckon there would not be a shortage of German old men wishing to be exported and card for in Thailand !!!

[Naam]

I think i have seen a lot of these elderly German gentelmen who are being looked after here in Pattaya ,they usually wear very loud shirts with long shorts and are being led by the arm by young ladies ,you can see many of them around soi6 and soi7. they also seem to reside around the Naklua area.

many of them are retired surgeons

[Digitalbanana]

In Chiang Mai at Immigration I once saw a bunch of older foriegners

being led by what looked like Thai care givers.

Later I saw on their shirts it was a Alzheimer care home.

called Baan Kamlangchay

I also saw these older articles online

http://www.nationmul...es_30072282.php

http://www.chiangmai...9/success.shtml

General question... how exactly does immigration work when the person is terminally ill or bed ridden? The annual Non-Imm O extension trip would kill me in that state?

[thenervoussurgeon]

I think i have seen a lot of these elderly German gentelmen who are being looked after here in Pattaya ,they usually wear very loud shirts with long shorts and are being led by the arm by young ladies ,you can see many of them around soi6 and soi7. they also seem to reside around the Naklua area.

many of them are retired surgeons

maybe ,but not a lot of nervous ones

[Gaccha]

There are special procedures ti deal with this. A room inside the 90 day area is set aside just for this @ chaeng wattana

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[LaoPo]

There are special procedures ti deal with this. A room inside the 90 day area is set aside just for this @ chaeng wattana

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?

[ravip]

While the hail and hearty foreigners who have arrived in Thailand on their own choice are bashing the s*** out of Thailand accusing of scams, dual pricing, corruption, murders, et al - should not these foreign Governments be warned not to send their old and infirm to be exposed to these atrocities?

Also one should consider the fact if it is really 'humane' to send your old & infirm family members overseas just for the simple reason that their siblings have no time to look after them.

Normally, aged people prefer to live in their 'own domain' to spend their sunset years with their friends, family etc in the environment they are used to, isn't it?

Thinking of the 'big picture' I doubt if it would benefit either party on the long term. One has to keep in mind that money is NOT everything.

I am not referring to people who made the choice to migrate on their own.

Just thinking...

[chiangmaikelly]

While the hail and hearty foreigners who have arrived in Thailand on their own choice are bashing the s*** out of Thailand accusing of scams, dual pricing, corruption, murders, et al - should not these foreign Governments be warned not to send their old and infirm to be exposed to these atrocities?

Also one should consider the fact if it is really 'humane' to send your old & infirm family members overseas just for the simple reason that their siblings have no time to look after them.

Normally, aged people prefer to live in their 'own domain' to spend their sunset years with their friends, family etc in the environment they are used to, isn't it?

Thinking of the 'big picture' I doubt if it would benefit either party on the long term. One has to keep in mind that money is NOT everything.

I am not referring to people who made the choice to migrate on their own.

Just thinking...

I tried to send my old mother from Florida back to Ireland. She told me I was nuts.

Edited January 4, 2013 by chiangmaikelly