Diabetic Food Shops In Pattaya Or Bkk

[edd]

Why are there no specialist food shops for people with diabetes in Pattaya or BKK?

I am very fortunate that I don’t suffer from the disease but I have used the shops in the UK to obtain sugar free foods and drinks.

Drinks here are far to sweet for my taste, i am sure that i am not alone in this.

I think that there must be a real opportunity for some one in Thailand, given the very high rate of diabetes here.

Edited January 18, 2013 by endure
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[gamini]

there is no such thing as diabetic food. Diabetics have to eat a balanced diet with minimum of sugar.

[edd]

there is no such thing as diabetic food. Diabetics have to eat a balanced diet with minimum of sugar.

quite correct!

so now we both know what we are talking about.

Eg.

http://www.sugarfreesuperstore.co.uk/

so where is there one in Thailand?

[chiang mai]

If you're trying to avoid sugar that's a fairly easy thing to do, but to avoid/treat diabetes you're probably better off starting with the glycemic index and eliminate any food/drink above 50. Another useful tool is to balance your protein/cabo intake and to change your meal patterns, try four or five small meals a day instead of three and weight the bulk of your food intake to the middle of the day.

[ignis]

Sadly after the Floods the Ice Cream shop did not re-open......... he made the Ice Cream at the back of the shop, 4 different one were Sugar Free, always 4 and each time there were different ones, did not go often maybe every other month as they were expensive 39 baht per scoop.

I do understand what the OP is saying, many places sell sugar fee stuff or Light, but never seen in Thailand.......... Jam's. cakes, chocolate, big 1 kg bags of light sugar etc........ even finding sugar free drinks here is a hit and miss affair. yesterday popped into a Village Tesco Express, what I went in there for they had not.. Fresh Lime juice in a bag unsweetened, they have had these little bag for at least 6 months. but had 12 Bottle 1.45 lt of Pepsi Max, and @ 23 baht [7/11 next door also had them on Promotion but @ 27 baht !!! ]

Used to drink Tipco fruit juice was No Added Sugar, then one day they were cheaper that the No Added Sugar sign was missing, read the contents, sugar was added.......... so something that was sugar free for years suddenly get sugar.

[endure]

If you're diabetic you don't need a sugar free shop - what you need is one of these

[ignis]

If you're diabetic you don't need a sugar free shop - what you need is one of these

I am sure that does not taste very nice ?

Maybe 1x per month I have a change for breakfast and have 2 slices of toast, the Thai orange jam/marmalade is VERY sweet, just would be nice to have a jar of sugar free marmalade. or very low sugar.

Big problem here is they keep changing......... so when I 1st came I read all the labels to see which Brand had less sugar.. so fine always buy that brand for years, so then look on the pack/bottle and notice that something that did have 2% sugar now has 8% and so on. that did say no added sugar now has 14% sugar

Supermarket have a sector that has imported foods, just would be nice if they had a sector or shelve that has sugar free or low sugar items.... It is difficult to even find bread without loads of added sugar.

I have Thai friends that have Diabetics and say the same, almost everything in Thailand has added sugar, even many pills are sugar coated.

[ThaiBob]

edd,

the treatment, testing and dieting for diabetes in Thailand is still in the dark ages. these products are costly to manufacturer and import. looks like a good business opportunity for someone.

[chiang mai]

You guys need to do some reading on this subject, the diabetic problem is not direct sugar intake per se but instead it's fast release carbohydrates which get converted into glucose and overwhelm the body. Eat a piece of white toast for breakfast and your blood glucose levels will spike and take time to return to normal, eat say meusilli and prunes which are slow release carbohydrates and your glucose levels return to a lower level for a longer period without you feeling hungry. Oh if only it were so simple as sugar intake, ha!

As for the treatment and testing side of things: there's a range of good quality imported blood glucose testers on the market and strips for them are not expensive. The medication needed to manage glucose levels is widely available here also - my experience is that Thai endocrinologists are well up to speed with most aspects of diabetes treatment and management..

"Diabetes mellitus, or simply diabetes, is a group of metabolic diseases in which a person has high blood sugar, either because the pancreas does not produce enough insulin, or because cells do not respond to the insulin that is produced.^[2] This high blood sugar produces the classical symptoms of polyuria (frequent urination), polydipsia (increased thirst) and polyphagia (increased hunger)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_mellitus

Note, no where in the above or indeed anywhere else does it say that diabetes is caused by injesting too much sugar.

Edited January 19, 2013 by chiang mai

[xen]

I think most Thais do not understand diabetes . When my ex wife and i ran a Thai restaurant in Sydney i suggested a menu catering for diabetics, and for gluten intolerance as well . Met with blank looks and all the excuses why diabetics should not come to the restaurant rather than adapt to an uncatered market . I have seen the same attitude when you tell a new cook that we don't use MSG.

Here in Thailand it is difficult to get a cup of coffee without sugar . I have had some undrinkable cups of coffee here just because they cannot understand that some of us are either diabetic or do not want to develop diabetes thu the overuse of sugar..

Yes i agree there would be a great market for restaurants , especially in Pattaya, Phuket , Chiang Mai etc that can cater for diabetics or people who wish to have a sugar fee diet.

[ignis]

Also depends on what Dr you see/ask

Dr/specialist for diabetics in UK told me can eat sweet fruit, No problems with say 2 Thai Mangos as this is good sugars......... All fresh fruits eat every day as good sugars...

Dr/specialist for diabetics in Thailand say Mango is a No, if wanting Mango then only 1/2 of one...

So 2 Dr/specialist for diabetics give different instructions ??? just an example ......

Like Dr/specialist for diabetics in UK said to eat brown bread or rice every day as this absorbs sugar..... To Americans this is a big no no for diabetics...

So follow the diabetics specialist in USA + UK + Thailand = eat everything. gets confusing.

[chiang mai]

Also depends on what Dr you see/ask

Dr/specialist for diabetics in UK told me can eat sweet fruit, No problems with say 2 Thai Mangos as this is good sugars......... All fresh fruits eat every day as good sugars...

Dr/specialist for diabetics in Thailand say Mango is a No, if wanting Mango then only 1/2 of one...

So 2 Dr/specialist for diabetics give different instructions ??? just an example ......

Like Dr/specialist for diabetics in UK said to eat brown bread or rice every day as this absorbs sugar..... To Americans this is a big no no for diabetics...

So follow the diabetics specialist in USA + UK + Thailand = eat everything. gets confusing.

You've had some bad advice there Ignis, pretty amazing really. Just for the record, brown bread and rice does not absorb sugar, brown bread and brown rice are considered low on the glycemic index hence their benefit to diabetics is that they are absorbed by the body very slowly thus they do not casue the blood glucose levels to spike to any great degree. Also, the sugar contained in fruit is not unhealthy but it does contain a lot of calories hence eating a lot of fruit is one sure fire way to gain weight, believe it or not, one cup of pineapple chunks is about 85 calories of which 16 grams is sugar - mango is pretty similar although one cup is 100 calories.

Edited January 19, 2013 by chiang mai

[ignis]

pineapple don't eat often, likewise mango, strawberries, living way out of town one buys what is in the Village Markets, so what is in season, do like the little red berries + so cheap, always have a banana everyday with cornflakes for breakfast, maybe 1x month toast for at least 20 years.... many fruits I have no idea what they are to even look for the name or calories..

Anyone know the English name of the of beans in long strips that grow on trees in the south ? [Thais call them green nut] Love them and get someone to bring 100 strips of them up or send by Bus, sadly also appears 1 x year.. have seen them in BKK but at some daft prices + not good or fresh looking

[chiang mai]

There's a huge difference in the number of calories in a ripe/over ripe bannana and one that is a few days away from being ripe, I used to eat bannana's all the time for breakfast until I realised that ripe bannanna's were sending my blood glucose levels haywire, now I eat prunes instead which incidently is one of the healthiest fruits on the planet and super low on the glycemic index.

[tropo]

You guys need to do some reading on this subject, the diabetic problem is not direct sugar intake per se but instead it's fast release carbohydrates which get converted into glucose and overwhelm the body. Eat a piece of white toast for breakfast and your blood glucose levels will spike and take time to return to normal, eat say meusilli and prunes which are slow release carbohydrates and your glucose levels return to a lower level for a longer period without you feeling hungry. Oh if only it were so simple as sugar intake, ha!

Do you have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes?

I'm asking, because the information you're giving here is not true and normally what I hear from people who don't test.

If you're diabetic you'll spike on brown bread, muesli, oats, brown rice, prunes and most any carbs. Diabetics will have a high blood sugar level for many hours after these foods. Whether it digests 15 minutes more quickly or not doesn't make much difference.

A friend discovered this recently when he found he was spiking at nearly 200 mg/dl (1 hour) and over 150 mg/dl (2 hours) after a small bowl of muesli - and he's not even full type 2 diabetic yet.

The actual quantity of the carb in a meal is the most important consideration.

Edited January 19, 2013 by tropo

[chiang mai]

You guys need to do some reading on this subject, the diabetic problem is not direct sugar intake per se but instead it's fast release carbohydrates which get converted into glucose and overwhelm the body. Eat a piece of white toast for breakfast and your blood glucose levels will spike and take time to return to normal, eat say meusilli and prunes which are slow release carbohydrates and your glucose levels return to a lower level for a longer period without you feeling hungry. Oh if only it were so simple as sugar intake, ha!

Do you have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes?

I'm asking, because the information you're giving here is not true and normally what I hear from people who don't test.

If you're diabetic you'll spike on brown bread, muesli, oats, brown rice, prunes and most any carbs. Diabetics will have a high blood sugar level for many hours after these foods. Whether it digests 15 minutes more quickly or not doesn't make much difference.

A friend discovered this recently when he found he was spiking at nearly 200 mg/dl (1 hour) and over 150 mg/dl (2 hours) after a small bowl of muesli - and he's not even full type 2 diabetic yet.

The actual quantity of the carb in a meal is the most important consideration.

I'm pre-diabetic, my HbA1C is 5.7% and I've been testing many many times daily since the start of November trying to understand what works for me and what doesn't..

The point I was trying to make above is that sugar intake itself is not the real problem, instead people need to differentiate between the different types of carbs that exist (slow release vs fast) - the rest of the picture regarding the ratio of protein to carbs, meal size and frequency et al is not something that a thread such as this should explore since the OP was talking at the outset about sugar free drinks and the like. Now, having said all that, I recognise you as something of an expert in this area so if you want to set it all out, chapter and verse, please feel free.

[tropo]

You guys need to do some reading on this subject, the diabetic problem is not direct sugar intake per se but instead it's fast release carbohydrates which get converted into glucose and overwhelm the body. Eat a piece of white toast for breakfast and your blood glucose levels will spike and take time to return to normal, eat say meusilli and prunes which are slow release carbohydrates and your glucose levels return to a lower level for a longer period without you feeling hungry. Oh if only it were so simple as sugar intake, ha!

Do you have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes?

I'm asking, because the information you're giving here is not true and normally what I hear from people who don't test.

If you're diabetic you'll spike on brown bread, muesli, oats, brown rice, prunes and most any carbs. Diabetics will have a high blood sugar level for many hours after these foods. Whether it digests 15 minutes more quickly or not doesn't make much difference.

A friend discovered this recently when he found he was spiking at nearly 200 mg/dl (1 hour) and over 150 mg/dl (2 hours) after a small bowl of muesli - and he's not even full type 2 diabetic yet.

The actual quantity of the carb in a meal is the most important consideration.

I'm pre-diabetic, my HbA1C is 5.7% and I've been testing many many times daily since the start of November trying to understand what works for me and what doesn't..

The point I was trying to make above is that sugar intake itself is not the real problem, instead people need to differentiate between the different types of carbs that exist (slow release vs fast) - the rest of the picture regarding the ratio of protein to carbs, meal size and frequency et al is not something that a thread such as this should explore since the OP was talking at the outset about sugar free drinks and the like. Now, having said all that, I recognise you as something of an expert in this area so if you want to set it all out, chapter and verse, please feel free.

Everyone has a different response to different foods, but you test yourself and know exactly where you are with different foods. At 5.7% you're in the same zone as I am, with some insulin resistance, but once people advance to the diabetic stage all carbs are a problem unless they take medication. You're still at a stage where you can handle certain carbs and if you exercise regularly you'll develop more tolerance to carb foods.

Do you test at 1 hour and 2 hours after meals? Most people reach maximum spike at 45 minutes - this is after the first bite, not the end of the meal. If you only test at 2 hours you can miss big spikes.

[endure]

If you're diabetic you don't need a sugar free shop - what you need is one of these

I am sure that does not taste very nice ?

Maybe not but using it will give you a much better chance of going to the grave neither blind nor minus your legs.

[Ulysses G.]

This thread illustrates one big problem with diabetes information. Most of the posters are knowlegeable about the different theories, but they contradict each other. I agree with the statement that it is all very confusing.

[endure]

You don't need theories - you need a meter. Using a meter stops you relying on other people's theories. It provides you with real scientific numbers that you can use to save yourself.

[chiang mai]

This thread illustrates one big problem with diabetes information. Most of the posters are knowlegeable about the different theories, but they contradict each other. I agree with the statement that it is all very confusing.

There's unlikely to be any disagreement regarding what diabetes or hyperglycemia is and it's cause since this has been the subject of much research and is now widely enshrined as fact, when earlier posters mentioned brown bread absorbing sugar that was simply misinformation, ditto that soft drinks cause diabetes and hyperglycemia. Where the picture becomes less clear is as Tropo points out, trying to come up with a standard diet template that fits everyone, that's almost impossible because everyones metabolism is different, the dgree to which each of is hyperglicemic varies and each of our bodies responds to different foods in different ways.

So as Endure points out, the only real way for an individual to get a real handle on this subject is to buy a tester and begin testing on a very regular basis so that you can understand the unique demands of your own body - I would also stronly recommend that folks about to do that also get an A1C blood test first so as to establish a baseline which can be monitored going forward. (home testing kits use capillary blood whereas the A1C test uses venus blood hence the test results from home testers can be unreliable):

(What is) Diabetes mellitus, or simply diabetes, is a group of metabolic diseases in which a person has high blood sugar, either because the pancreas does not produce enough insulin, or because cells do not respond to the insulin that is produced.

What doesn't cause diabetes?

It's important to be aware of myths about the causes of diabetes. Eating too much sugar does not cause diabetes. However, it may cause obesity and this is associated with people developing type 2 diabetes. http://www.bbc.co.uk...es_causes.shtml

What is Hyperglycemia? http://www.medicinenet.com/hyperglycemia/article.htm

Hyperglycemia, or high blood sugar (glucose), is a serious health problem for those with diabetes. Hyperglycemia develops when there is too much sugar in the blood. In people with diabetes, there are two specific types of hyperglycemia that occur:

• Fasting hyperglycemia is defined as a blood sugar greater than 130 mg/dL (milligrams per deciliter) after fasting for at least 8 hours.
  
• Postprandial or after-meal hyperglycemia is defined as a blood sugar usually greater than 180 mg/dL. In people without diabetes postprandial or post-meal sugars rarely go over 140 mg/dL. However, occasionally after a large meal, a 1-2 hour post-meal sugar level can reach 180 mg/dL. Consistently elevated high post-meal blood sugar levels can be an indicator that a person is at high risk for developing type 2 diabetes
  

What Causes Hyperglycemia in Diabetes?

Hyperglycemia in diabetes may be caused by:

• Skipping or forgetting your insulin or oral glucose-lowering medicine
  
• Eating too many grams of carbohydrates for the amount of insulin administered or just eating too many grams of carbohydrates in general
  
• Infection
  
• Illness
  
• Increased stress
  
• Decreased activity or exercising less than usual
  
• Strenuous physical activity
  

A useful overview of it all here: http://www.medicalne.../info/diabetes/

Edited January 20, 2013 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

Just one more thing some readers may find of use and that's an overview of the glycemic index (GI):

• "Any food rating less than 55 in the G.I. is considered low
  

The glycemic index is a useful aid for diabetics or for anyone who wishes to control their blood glucose levels. A diet based on foods with low glycemic response has been associated with diabetes management, improved blood lipids (cholesterol), reduced risk of heart disease, and weight management^{[2][unreliable source?]}. Not only will foods with a low glycemic index take longer to digest (therefore prolonging satiety) they will also maintain blood glucose levels at a relatively constant state. Foods with a high glycemic index not only digest quickly, they can cause extreme fluctuations in blood glucose". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-glycemic_diet

The most complete glycemic index I've found is here: http://www.glycemicindex.com/

Using that link you can sort the entire database to identify foods that are either high or low, for my part I now refuse to eat anything that has a GI rating higher than 50.

Final tip: of a person really wants to avoid diabetes, the first thing they must do is to stop eating food coloured white, white rice, white bread and potato, all are a big no-no.

[xen]

Some really great info here - makes me realise how little i do understand about the subject . Thanks especially to Troppo and Chiang mai.

[ignis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-glycemic_diet

As with many sites and info pages.........

403 Forbidden

Access is forbidden to the requested page:

www.diabetesnet.com/food-diabetes/glycemic-index

[chiang mai]

One of the scary aspects to checking your blood glucose levels:

Most people will have their blood glucose levels checked as part of an annual health exam, say once a year, for that test it's important to fast (not eat) for at least eight hours prior (the older the person the longer the fasting period needs to be). But whilst we are sleeping our bodies are up to all manner odd things and blood glucose usually get impacted along the way, two scenario's are common:

"Morning phenomena" is a condition where the body anticipates it will waken soon and be expected to need energy, as a result a surge in blood glucose levels takes place which can leave individuals with abnormally high false readings. (I experience this and frequently see my fasting numbers fall from 140 to 104 in the space of an hour)

"Rebound" is another phenomena where the exact opposite happens and blood glucose levels temporarily fall and this gives the impression that fasting blood glucose levels are normal or low.

The implications of the above are that a healthy person might be misdiagnosed and have to undergoe subsequent testing whereas a person who has genuinely high blood glucose levels may escape detection, for another year!

The two ways to avoid the above are to either do repeated tests at home on subsequent days or to get the A1C test result which avoids the false readings. The message however is clear, having a single finger prick test once a year does not provide any assurances whatsoever.

[bkkmick]

All very interesting.

Now can we get back to the original question? Being a diabetic and low carbing every day is boring. I'd love to get something low carb and sweet sometimes.

Online stores don't appear to deliver to Thailand.

Edited January 20, 2013 by bkkmick

[chiang mai]

All very interesting.

Now can we get back to the original question? Being a diabetic and low carbing every day is boring. I'd love to get something low carb and sweet sometimes.

Online stores don't appear to deliver to Thailand.

Japanese green tea is the best I can come up with, the unsweetend Pokka brand is really good if you add a couple of Equal tabs.

[ignis]

All very interesting.

Now can we get back to the original question? Being a diabetic and low carbing every day is boring. I'd love to get something low carb and sweet sometimes.

Online stores don't appear to deliver to Thailand.

I find most people very helpful, lived at the same place for almost 10 years, use same Village markets etc.......... The market cake Lady make item just for me, sure it is more expensive but still a lot less then some shop would sell for.... eg: at moment in fridge are choc balls, she makes me 20 at a time, uses sugar light, adds nuts, and instead of rolling in chocolate she puts a little blob on the top.... so got something sweet that will last a month, sure is nice to have something a bit sweet sometimes..

[tropo]

You don't need theories - you need a meter. Using a meter stops you relying on other people's theories. It provides you with real scientific numbers that you can use to save yourself.

Hear Hear!!

No better advice to give.

[Kananga]

Thais may not know much about diabetes now but considering how much sugar is thrown into everything along with an ever increasing sedentary lifestyle this place will be a diabetes hub within the next 10-15 years.

They'll start doing something when people start dropping like flies. (After initially denying there is a problem, and then trying to point the finger at someone else for letting it happen of course).