Young Men Giving Up On Marriage.

[I Like Thai]

I'd be interested in the views of the ladies on this article, posted below. Do you have a different side to the story ?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/young-men-giving-up-on-marriage-women-arent-women-anymore

Young men giving up on marriage: ‘Women aren’t women anymore’

BY HILARY WHITE

• Thu Jan 10, 2013 20:02 EST
  
• Comments (167)
  
• Tags: Marriage
  

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January 10, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Fewer young men in the US want to get married than ever, while the desire for marriage is rising among young women, according to the Pew Research Center.

Pew recently found that the number of women 18-34 saying that having a successful marriage is one of the most important things rose from 28 percent to 37 percent since 1997. The number of young adult men saying the same thing dropped from 35 percent to 29 percent in the same time.

Pew’s findings have caught the attention of one US writer who maintains that feminism, deeply entrenched in every segment of the culture, has created an environment in which young men find it more beneficial to simply opt out of couple-dom entirely.

Suzanne Venker’s article, “The War on Men,” which appeared on the website of Fox News in late November, has become a lodestone for feminist writers who have attacked her position that the institution of marriage is threatened, not enhanced, by the supposed gains of the feminist movement over the last 50 years.

“Where have all the good (meaning marriageable) men gone?” is a question much talked about lately in the secular media, Venker says, but her answer, backed up by statistics, is not to the liking of mainstream commentators influenced by feminism.

She points out that for the first time in US history, the number of women in the workforce has surpassed the number of men, while more women than men are acquiring university degrees.

“The problem? This new phenomenon has changed the dance between men and women,” Venker wrote. With feminism pushing them out of their traditional role of breadwinner, protector and provider – and divorce laws increasingly creating a dangerously precarious financial prospect for the men cut loose from marriage – men are simply no longer finding any benefit in it.

As a writer and researcher into the trends of marriage and relationships, Venker said, she has “accidentally stumbled upon a subculture” of men who say “in no uncertain terms, that they’re never getting married.”

“When I ask them why, the answer is always the same: women aren’t women anymore.” Feminism, which teaches women to think of men as the enemy, has made women “angry” and “defensive, though often unknowingly.”

“Now the men have nowhere to go. It is precisely this dynamic – women good/men bad – that has destroyed the relationship between the sexes. Yet somehow, men are still to blame when love goes awry.”

“Men are tired,” Venker wrote. “Tired of being told there’s something fundamentally wrong with them. Tired of being told that if women aren’t happy, it’s men’s fault.”

Click “like” if you want to defend true marriage.

Feminism and the sexual revolution have simply made marriage “obsolete” for women as a social and economic refuge, but this is a situation that should not be celebrated by feminists, Venker says.

“It’s the women who lose. Not only are they saddled with the consequences of sex, by dismissing male nature they’re forever seeking a balanced life. The fact is, women need men’s linear career goals – they need men to pick up the slack at the office – in order to live the balanced life they seek.”

A cross section of research data from the Pew Research Center for the last months of 2012 shows the alarming trends for marriage and child-bearing in the US. One report published in mid-December said that the latest census data showed “barely half” of all adults in the United States are currently married, a “record low”. Since 1960, the number of married adults has decreased from 72 percent to 51 today and the number of new marriages in the U.S. declined by five percent between 2009 and 2010.

Moreover, the median age at first marriage continues to rise with women getting married the first time at 26.5 years and men at 28.7. The declines in marriage are “most dramatic” among young adults. Just 20 percent of those aged 18 to 29 are married, compared with 59 percent in 1960.

“If current trends continue, the share of adults who are currently married will drop to below half within a few years,” the report said.

Moreover, the link between marriage and childrearing has become disconnected in the minds of the so-called Millennial generation, those between 18 and 29. While 52 percent of Millennials say being a good parent is “one of the most important things” in life, just 30 per cent say the same about having a successful marriage, an attitudinal survey found.

The gap, of 22 percentage points, between the value Millennials place on parenthood over marriage, was just 7 points in 1997. The research found that Millennials, many of whom are the children of divorce and single-parenthood themselves, are also less likely than their elders to say that a child needs both a father and mother at home, that single parenthood and unmarried couple parenthood are bad for society.

[rene123]

It wouldn't surprise me if it was true. Both boys and girls have been sold a "bill of goods" by the religious doctrine telling them that marriage is the only "proper" thing. From what I've seen it ain't for everyone. Men have more in common with other men, and the same is true for women. From what I've seen, the only real reason to get married is to have children.

[Boo]

quite honestly I don't know a single woman who would want to marry someone who thinks that feminism & womens rights are a bad thing. Pretty much everyone I know is married. Feminism doesn't teach women that men are the enemy, some women might think it due to circumstanced in their life just as many men (large percentage of this foirum imo) think women are the enemy because of the circumstance in their lives.

It is bull like this article that fuels a battle that doesn't really exist for most poeple, it panders tot he tiny minority who have an agenda to hate.

This article has zero merit for anyone who can think & knows the true meaning of feminism & equality.

[mike123ca]

The writer in the article believes men are refusing to marry because of women's rights.

The popularity of marriage is falling among people of younger segments of the population.

If a man and women want to be together and not have children, I as a man would not want to get married

Married couples in the "west" tend to have higher taxes than those who are single and also their is the issue of

alimony. Living together without marriage works out to be a better choice for most couples.

I suspect that most men prefer having the lifestyle of being single. You have more freedom and less

restrictions and responsibilities compared to married men.

If a person wants ( or feels it will be beneficial ) to be married, then go ahead, if not then avoid it.

There are many reasons to marry as well as not to marry.

I do feel it is a bit of a stretch to believe "women's rights" will

be the main reason for a man not wanting to get married.

[sbk]

I feel that more and more people don't bother getting married and I doubt it has to do with feminism. Alot has to do with watching their parents marriage fall apart. Additionally, alot of people tell me they feel actually getting the piece of paper makes it worse. So blaming feminism is just too easy.

The reason there is divorce now is because its legal. There is no stigma to remaining single (like there is here for instance) and you are not a pariah if you do not choose to have children.

[rene123]

I think you are right, sbk. The stigma of being single is either passing or it has already passed. There are too many divorced couples to prove otherwise. Besides, if two people actually care for each other then a little piece of paper is not going to change things. The same is true if they grow apart and decide to split up. The rigid doctrines of our parents and grandparents is fading. But, there are always people to want to BLAME somebody or some thing.for their own poor choices in life. And, even a GOOD choice in a partner can often fade and die. Just be happy having had the good times and get on with life.

[Ijustwannateach]

I wouldn't give too much credit to any source from Fox. I doubt most young men are looking at women in that way. Most likely, I'd guess, the hesitance is economic. Salaries are at an all-time economically adjusted low, while the cost of raising a child is astronomical.

[katana]

Sam Kiniston on getting married:

[swlondonmum]

quite honestly I don't know a single woman who would want to marry someone who thinks that feminism & womens rights are a bad thing. Pretty much everyone I know is married. Feminism doesn't teach women that men are the enemy, some women might think it due to circumstanced in their life just as many men (large percentage of this foirum imo) think women are the enemy because of the circumstance in their lives.

It is bull like this article that fuels a battle that doesn't really exist for most poeple, it panders tot he tiny minority who have an agenda to hate.

This article has zero merit for anyone who can think & knows the true meaning of feminism & equality.

Agreed! This idea of feminism as man-hating is mostly a media thing and in reality MOST women I know are just normal people who want basic rights and most men I know agree with them. And most of the women support men if there are circumstances where men have a bad deal. Most of my female friends have taken steps back in their career after having kids and in most cases their husbands are working harder and would like to spend more time with the kids. They are all pragmatic and realise none of them is worse off than their partner - they just get on with it apart from the odd argument over washing up! As long as people have choice where possible - eg in one family I know the dad took a year off when the mum when back to work as they both wanted to swap and in another, both the woman and man retained high flying careers as both were able to work from home flexibly. The main thing is having a like-minded partner (and being fortunate enough to have the type of career you want to keep!)

Re the child support - there are always going to be people who want to cheat their partner financially- men who don't want to pay for their kids or women who want to get more money than they should - it's not exactly easy to make laws to cover every possibility so I guess in the end there will be some women who get screwed and some men who get screwed. If it was only women getting screwed (like in Thailand) it would be pretty unfair - same if the law went too far the other way and only men got screwed. Alimony is a lot less of an issue in the uk (it seems to be more of an issue in the USA but I don't know much about that) but there are circumstances where it is justified (contrary to what some people believe!) eg when women have taken a step back in their career due to having kids or looking after the household if they have no kids. I have two friends who have taken 5yrs off to look after their kids (the husbands wanted this at least as much, if not more) and it would be really hard for them to get back to the level they were at - I don't think they'd need support for life but a bit to help them get back on their feet would be fair.

Feminism has led to women taking less time off work for kids (or not) so surely that will help guys by reducing alimony payments - so that's a good thing isn't it? I don't think alimony payments are that ridiculous in the uk are they and I don't think alimony payments where there are no kids are all that common - mostly apply to pretty rich couples where the wife has stopped working to support hubby's highly paid career so don't affect most of us.

[sbk]

Post deleted.

Please re-read the OP

I'd be interested in the views of the ladies on this article,

Cheers, you have enough other places to post your complaints, this is not one of them.

[Lancelot]

And, even a GOOD choice in a partner can often fade and die.

Marriage can be great when two people are moving forward in the same direction and at the same speed. Often one or both parnters in the marriage changes directions, speed or both and, well....

[sbk]

Post deleted.

Please re-read the OP

I'd be interested in the views of the ladies on this article,

Cheers, you have enough other places to post your complaints, this is not one of them.

Obviously then women are not interested in the male's point of view? I guess they must already know?

Please re-read the OP, please note where you are. I don't see why it needs repeating, and besides the particular deleted post is a dead horse that I,for one, have had more than my share of seeing be beaten.

[MacChine]

I wouldn't give too much credit to any source from Fox. I doubt most young men are looking at women in that way. Most likely, I'd guess, the hesitance is economic. Salaries are at an all-time economically adjusted low, while the cost of raising a child is astronomical.

Amen to that. ^ Any chance to give a dig to feminists.

Maybe marriage is outdated, its religious roots are failing, the inception of it when we lived to be 35 has given way to decades of sexual boredom. done, time has past.

Japan is especially worried as young women are so sick of keeping house and working, they are saying no to marriage and kids.

[nattydread]

Top Ten Reasons Why You Should Not Get Married

In our society there is so much focus on getting married and starting a family that tons of people jump blindly into the dark waters and the get swallowed whole by the black abyss. Now really why should we get married? I mean there’s obviously a focus on it and we are brought up believing that’s what we’re supposed to do, but why are we supposed to do it? Because society says so? Because there’s a tax break? Well, honestly I don’t know why we’re supposed to get married, but here are 10 reasons why you shouldn’t:

1. Children – Yea kids are great right? Only when you can give them back to their owners. Again this is something society has instilled in our heads from day one. We are supposed grow up get married and breed. Well the fact of the matter is that kids are dam_n expensive! The average cost of raising a child from birth to age 18 is $250,000, yes you read that number right. And on top of that ridiculous number some people simply shouldn’t be parents.

2. You feel like you’re at that age – So many guys will simply say screw it let’s get married because they feel like they have reached “that age” and it’s “the thing to do.” Well that’s just rubbish! There is no age limit and there is no “supposed” to do at any certain age. You are just throwing away yourself because of what society has implanted in your brain since you were a child.

3. You think it’s a good financial move – Just because there is a bit of a tax break doesn’t mean you’re going to get married and magically become rich. I’m not sure which fools actually think that will happen but believe you me they are out there. In fact marriage can have the exact opposite effect on your bank account. When you factor in your wife using your money to go shopping on top of the bills, the groceries, two cars etc etc you’ll have a better chance of winding up flat broke out on your ass then you will being rich.

4. You think it will complete you as a person – All I can do is point and laugh if you think this is what it takes to fully grow up. Yea yea so many people will be saying “Well you don’t really know what life is all about till you get married.” Haha that is absurd! You can live a very full and fulfilled life without ever being married. Plus if you stay single you can have so many more awesome adventures without having a nagging wife telling you that you need to take the trash out and get back to fixing things around the house. Now, that alone doesn’t sound like fun.

5. The wedding itself – Do you know how stupidly expensive a wedding is? You thought raising a child was expensive? Well, yea it is but to start it all off you have another quarter of a million dollars to deal with to make sure your bride is happy. And yes you have to make sure she is happy, it honestly doesn’t matter how you feel about anything through the whole process. All you want to do is wear something a little more comfortable then a monkey suit and have a dam_n beer, but that’s not even close the way it goes. You more or less have to ask permission to breathe to make sure it fits into the schedule.

6. The marriage itself – Have you ever had a long time girlfriend? Well then you know how nerve racking it can be at times. Now multiply that annoying nerve racking feeling and then make it last for 40 years! It’s absolutely ridiculous!!! Why would any want to wake up next to the same annoying person day after day while you watch them sleep and plan their demise? It’s baffling how people would want to go through all of that, and even worse they sit there and take it day after day and don’t break it off. Then they tell their friends how awful their wife is, so why not leave? Why not even do it in the first place? DUH!

7. Divorce – In this day and age divorce is a very common thing. Over half the marriages in the U.S. End in divorce after a few years. That means that you don’t even have a 50-50 chance of surviving. You have LESS than 50% chance of making something that actually works for the long run. And guess what, yep more money. Divorces are not cheap by any means, you have lawyer fees, court costs and then of course once it’s over the man still loses half of his assets. Granted a lot of us end up losing our assets the longer we have a girlfriend so by the time you are married you aren’t left with much, but she will gladly take what’s left.

8. The ridiculous notion that women are the relationship – There’s no other way to put it and you know exactly what I mean. The entire relationship becomes about the woman, now a relationship is supposed to be two people sharing a life together but somewhere along the line you get completely shut out of the picture. It doesn’t matter what you like, what you want to do, nothing about you matters anymore. You have to cater to the woman and make sure she is happy 24-7 or you are going to end up less happy than her.

9. The absurd thought that how she feels rules your world – Now don’t get me wrong you should care about other people’s feelings other than your own but they shouldn’t rule your life. Once you’re married there’s nothing you can do if she isn’t happy. She will pout around the house, give you the cold shoulder, skip out on your dinner and just overall make you feel like crap. You shouldn’t ever have to worry about every little aspect of someone’s inner workings just so you can get a glimpse of happiness.

10. Loss of sex – This is a big part of an intimate relationship and for whatever reason women all of a sudden lose their sex drive as soon as they are married. Like what happened to the thongs and heels and hour long rough screaming sex?! They act like they have forgotten how to do anything from oral sex to intercourse and they stick firm to it as though they came down with some odd illness that prevents them from remembering how to screw. And then to make things worse they actually turn around and use it as a weapon against us. “Hun if you go mow the lawn and pick up the groceries we can go back to the bedroom.” Dangling the carrot in front of your face just to pull it away at the last second.

There are many people out there who have gotten married and divorced and they keep on looking for the next special someone. Why does everyone look around and say “Is this the line to lose half my shit? Awesome!” and jump in line like someone is giving away a Ferrari. Society has twisted our views and made us believe this is what we are supposed to do, but I ask you, why are we supposed to do it? Well I just gave you ten reasons you shouldn’t, so take THAT society!

[OxfordWill]

Its a non question for me and my "young male" friends. None of us will be getting married legally speaking. The trend I see now is engaged for the longest time with perhaps some non legal ceremony.

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Another male view (I guess this might get nuked because the OP asked for female view, but I try anyway ). I grew up in a very traditional family (father was the breadwinner, mother housewife) and somehow I guess it stays with you.

I've lived in different countries, and in some (particularly Australia and NZ, but probably most Anglo-Saxon and Nordic countries) many/most women are highly independent nowadays compared to say a few decades ago. When you have a relationship with a "modern" woman like that, it can be almost like you're just "friends with benefits" (in my experience anyway). They go out on girls nights out once a week, have single male friends they hang out with alone, go on holidays with their female friends, etc. (OK this may not apply to every woman but is common). As you also both work usually, there's relatively little time left together. Thus such a modern relationship is very unlike traditional relationship models, where as a couple you essentially spend all your time together apart from when you are at work.

I guess because of my traditional upbringing I'm more inclined to seek out a partner who enjoys being looked after (as in being provided for), and in turn enjoys looking after me (as in being the devoted wife in a more or less traditional sense). This also means I expect her not to go out with others without me apart from very occasionally (not like every week, and going on holidays without me, etc.). I see a benefit of marriage here as particularly the woman is more protected (legally) in that case: she may not have an independent income, particularly after kids are born and she looks after them, and thus marriage acts as a safeguard. And also, because the relationship is traditional, getting married would be the traditional thing to do. It feels good within the context so to speak.

However if I ever had another relationship with a "modern" Western woman (particularly whilst living in LOS not very likely, but one never knows), it would probably be more of a "friends with benefits" type, rather than trying to get married or similar. It's basically two independent people sharing their life, and marriage adds nothing to such a relationship. Not that I can see anyway. If there's kids, you make a contract about the care for them (both personally and financially) and that's all that's required (plus perhaps a contract with the partner to define what will happen with assets and financially when you split up in future; modern relationships also seem to have a lower life expectancy than traditional ones).

[Boo]

Nothing wrong with that if that is what you want but there is also nothing wrong with wanting to have a social life independently of a husband or wife as well as one together.

Do you not ever go out without your wife?

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Nothing wrong with that if that is what you want but there is also nothing wrong with wanting to have a social life independently of a husband or wife as well as one together.

Do you not ever go out without your wife?

Sometimes yes, but that would typically be connected to work (having a few drinks with colleagues after work etc.), or very occasionally when an old friend visits and the wife doesn't want to come along for example. However we both aim to "integrate" our friends into our relationship so to speak, not maintain "disconnected" friendships. It also depends on frequency etc. Once in a while is OK, but I would have a problem in a situation where both partners essentially maintain a fully separate social network, where they don't even bother to introduce friends to each other. I've seen this happen in relationships/marriages around me in the past, which in that case to me are more like "friends with benefits" relationships rather than a true marriage in the traditional sense...

[MacChine]

Mmmm ^^

well it seems its OK for you to go out "..connected with work, .. " ( to strip clubs? )

Sigh , It's all about women doing the housework. Nothing has changed.

Is this the core ? Ga -ga for Asian women. the deferment of drudgery. Or is it it a primal seed the alien kinda urge?

[HeavyDrinker]

I'm writing this with the wife next to me but as I think how she tells me too then this is (probably) my opinion too.

My wife married me (after a drunken proposal in London) because she said "she liked the fact that I was even tempered"

We've now been married for 23 years.

At the time we wed I was a (very) junior member of our firm. She was Assistant Director of he organisation she works for.

She supported me financially while I completed my MA and in turn - some years later - I did the same for her.

For the life of us we can't understand the obsession with finance over love when it comes to marriage.

To be honest however we've been lucky and we've had very few "thin" moments financially during our lives, yet we know that we'd be as happy in a council house in Lancashire as we are here as that is where we started out married life.

Nowadays marriage seems to be depicted as a financial arrangement rather than one of emotion and I find that incredibly sad.

If you love someone then you marry them regardless. If not, then don't do it.

[Briggsy]

If you have substantial assets or any kind of income above subsistence level and you marry someone who has less, and if your marriage falls apart a few years down the road, then a considerable percentage of those assets or income may be transferred to your ex permanently. This may well affect your standard of living for the rest of your days. This is one issue amongst others that deters people from gettng married.

[FDog]

Are males only allowed to post on this thread if it is liked?

If posts from males are going to be removed and use the excuse that the OP is asking what women think then how about deleting ALL posts from males, not just the ones you don't like. Sheeeesh.

[nattydread]

Are males only allowed to post on this thread if it is liked?

If posts from males are going to be removed and use the excuse that the OP is asking what women think then how about deleting ALL posts from males, not just the ones you don't like. Sheeeesh.

when u let the woman have control she will do what she likes

[canuckamuck]

Marriage was the best thing I ever did, but my wife and I have traditional ideas which makes us very uncool these days.

[Boo]

Are males only allowed to post on this thread if it is liked?

If posts from males are going to be removed and use the excuse that the OP is asking what women think then how about deleting ALL posts from males, not just the ones you don't like. Sheeeesh.

I saw this & thought of you

[Gaccha]

Oddly, i have become one of the world's experts on this topic area.

I have ended up published in a peer-reviewed journal on the rise of the shaming of men to man-up and marry. I have analysed the extraordinary growth in the 'manosphere' on the internet (google it) and looked at the desperate situation for female graduates in the anglo-saxon settler states.

The dominant framing in a death spiral of silence remains oblique on the obvious point of marriage: it is a cartel on the access to sex. The intellectual gymnastics required to come up with other stories won't change this core point.

Thailand is part of the cartel-breaching process of globalization. Men can do travel to break the cartel that hinders male desire.

Obviously this is far more nuanced and complicated than I've written, but once my article is on Google scholar you can read all about the complex confluences of factors that mean Anglo-saxon settler state women can't find men to marry.

[rene123]

Media type writers always seem to start with a predetermined premise, and then pick and choose data that supports their arguement. They seem to choose a broad range of generalities that are substantiated by only a few facts. Topics are usually based on the "battle of the sexes". I guess it just sells magazines.

[OxfordWill]

Oddly, i have become one of the world's experts on this topic area.

I have ended up published in a peer-reviewed journal on the rise of the shaming of men to man-up and marry. I have analysed the extraordinary growth in the 'manosphere' on the internet (google it) and looked at the desperate situation for female graduates in the anglo-saxon settler states.

The dominant framing in a death spiral of silence remains oblique on the obvious point of marriage: it is a cartel on the access to sex. The intellectual gymnastics required to come up with other stories won't change this core point.

Thailand is part of the cartel-breaching process of globalization. Men can do travel to break the cartel that hinders male desire.

Obviously this is far more nuanced and complicated than I've written, but once my article is on Google scholar you can read all about the complex confluences of factors that mean Anglo-saxon settler state women can't find men to marry.

Please could you share the title.

This is a vlogger I am enjoying discussing the content of, on this issue, incidentally:

[MacChine]

It wouldn't surprise me if it was true. Both boys and girls have been sold a "bill of goods" by the religious doctrine telling them that marriage is the only "proper" thing. From what I've seen it ain't for everyone. Men have more in common with other men, and the same is true for women. From what I've seen, the only real reason to get married is to have children.

Why ? To make them suffer, too?

Maybe the whole family unit is a load of religious crap, Or actually probably more rooted in consumerism.

"Our Lord, Ford."

[Markaew]

I feel that more and more people don't bother getting married and I doubt it has to do with feminism. Alot has to do with watching their parents marriage fall apart. Additionally, alot of people tell me they feel actually getting the piece of paper makes it worse. So blaming feminism is just too easy.

The reason there is divorce now is because its legal. There is no stigma to remaining single (like there is here for instance) and you are not a pariah if you do not choose to have children.

Actually, your response is exactly why men don't want to marry.