Why An International School

[Trembly]

I'm not suggesting that there are no good schools in Thailand at all - but many private Thai schools are not that far ahead of the situation I describe above.

They may have the discipline issue cracked* but the curriculum is still dire, and the quality of instruction may also be suspect as the curriculum has barely any critical thinking built in, making it much easier to 'teach' for a lazy, rote-happy 'teacher'.

*Discipline in Thai private schools tend to oscillate between good and very bad. This is because the schools in the latter category are happy to be dumping grounds for the misunderstood little darlings of rich parents.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Trembly

[cbrer]

I think it would be a crime against your children to send them to a basic Government school and not homeschool them in anyway.

I will probably send my daughter to a cheap private school, and spend a few hours every evening and weekend home schooling her (without her really knowing it).

I would be of the opinion that I can teach my child a lot more than they will learn in a Thai classroom with reference to most subjects anyway, and look forward to doing so.

The fees saved from not sending them to an International school will likely end up in them owning properties by the time they reach adulthood.

Edited February 6, 2013 by cbrer

[Trembly]

I think it would be a crime against your children to send them to a basic Government school and not homeschool them in anyway.

I will probably send my daughter to a cheap private school, and spend a few hours every evening and weekend home schooling her (without her really knowing it).

I would be of the opinion that I can teach my child a lot more than they will learn in a Thai classroom with reference to most subjects anyway, and look forward to doing so.

The fees saved from not sending them to an International school will likely end up in them owning properties by the time they reach adulthood.

If you're going to do that I would strongly recommend that you feed them a steady diet of western documentaries (natural history, world history, science, anything really), cartoons, films etc.

Don't worry about whether the subject matter might be too advanced, just turn it on and if they're happy to sit in front of it let them. Let them volunteer questions most of the time and then expand on the answer.

Small kids like to repeat things and they tend to learn more and more each time as they connect more and more of the dots. Get them hooked on reading as early as possible. Dr. Seuss and Roald Dahl are excellent starting points. Once the habit of self-learning is established allow them to mix with older people so that they can discuss and hone their ideas about the things that they've learnt or observed.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Trembly

[cbrer]

Yup. I was lucky enough to have a father interested in the sciences and history and many evenings were spent on his knee watching documentaries together.

I've already decided that my daughter's diet is going to be based on fruits instead of sweets, after dinner time is going to spent with arts and crafts/music/education, Thai TV, lakorns and dayglow Fanta will have no place in their upbringing.

I would also like every Sunday morning to be a time to visit a local orphanage for us to go and socialize with the children there every week for half a day. In such a classist society I think it would be a good way to keep them grounded and help the poor kids there as well.

Edited February 6, 2013 by cbrer

[mjj]

very nice responses, but let's not forget something which is also important. state schools back home are FAILING terribly! gangs in school, shootings, drugs, fights, lack of good teachers, sex, boozing, weekend parties, rude children, troubled kids etc etc etc

so if we are going to talk negatively about state schools, I would probably rather my kid was in a good state school in bangkok compared to one in Chicago or a bad area in England. etc.

the schools back home scare me now, not like it was back in my day, sure we had problems, but I am convinced it much worse now.

Ideally having your child in state school for kindergarten, and half of primary (elementary school) would be perfect! the child will learn a culture! he will gather an IDENTITY this is very important, mixed race children can easily feel like they don't belong especially the ones raised here or out of the west.

if the child is in thai school from the first and there until he is 10, he will feel thai, his mum is thai, he has an identity, then in middle school, you put him in private school, or you go back to your country to give that child the experience to round the child off as a bi-lingual mixed race child. as the OP has done.he said his child is back in OZ now.

if to farangs are raising their farang children here, then I wouldn't recommend thai state school (well I would if you plan on staying for 20 years.) but if you are only here for a short time , then of course don't bother.. but for the people who have mixed race children, it's important that child can relate to his peers in the future, he will one day have to sit down with thais, what is he going to say?" oh yeah I went to private school my whole life, I don't even speak thai"!

or he could say, I grew up thai, then was educated in the west!

this builds character! this builds indentity, this builds relationships.

the half thai needs to be understood, needs to breath, and needs to accept and understand.

this is very important in education also, and a lot of parents forget this, they only look at facts and figures,

but people need to look spiritual also, it's not easy being a mixed race person when you grow up!

when people are cheering on your country at the olympics, or in the worldcup, who are you cheering on?

when people ask you where are you from? where do you say?

ohh my passport is thai and American, but really I was educated in an international school,

my dad is American! my mum is thai!

Im............ummmmmmmmmmmmmm ............ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

thai state school makes your child thai! it gives him an indentity,

international schools just keeps you in transit for ever! and if you never return to the states or your home country for your child to feel American ,or British,

your child will forever have no indentity!

think about that.

If your child needs an identity through school, education is the last of your worries.

I'm bringing my child up to be himself, with encouragement and guidance. If he feels the need to categorise himself in life, I will have failed.

[coffeeman]

If your child needs an identity through school, education is the last of your worries.

I'm bringing my child up to be himself, with encouragement and guidance. If he feels the need to categorise himself in life, I will have failed.

you have already categorized him by not giving him an Identity, he will be the category of Confused

its not about founding your identity in "the school" so to speak, it's if your child is learning a lnguage natively with native children

he will feel a patriotism towards that nation, as he is in the same boat as the local kids.

sure he will be mixed raced, but better than being a kid from an international school , who is basically a kid in transit.

Edited February 6, 2013 by coffeeman

[mjj]

I don't feel patriotism towards my own country and neither does my wife to hers. We both look at our respective countries through objective eyes and can see both the good and bad.

Yes, I will support my country in sporting events, but that is just a bit of fun. Personally I see the notion of BELONGING to a country and defending it based upon ancient borders that were constructed through spilt blood quite peculiar.

Patriotism is a concept of control.

[Trembly]

I don't feel patriotism towards my own country and neither does my wife to hers. We both look at our respective countries through objective eyes and can see both the good and bad.

Yes, I will support my country in sporting events, but that is just a bit of fun. Personally I see the notion of BELONGING to a country and defending it based upon ancient borders that were constructed through spilt blood quite peculiar.

Patriotism is a concept of control.

[cbrer]

Patriotism is a concept of control.

"An infantile disease"

A. Einstein.

I personally think that it is for fools.

[swlondonmum]

very nice responses, but let's not forget something which is also important. state schools back home are FAILING terribly! gangs in school, shootings, drugs, fights, lack of good teachers, sex, boozing, weekend parties, rude children, troubled kids etc etc etc

so if we are going to talk negatively about state schools, I would probably rather my kid was in a good state school in bangkok compared to one in Chicago or a bad area in England. etc.

the schools back home scare me now, not like it was back in my day, sure we had problems, but I am convinced it much worse now.

Ideally having your child in state school for kindergarten, and half of primary (elementary school) would be perfect! the child will learn a culture! he will gather an IDENTITY this is very important, mixed race children can easily feel like they don't belong especially the ones raised here or out of the west.

if the child is in thai school from the first and there until he is 10, he will feel thai, his mum is thai, he has an identity, then in middle school, you put him in private school, or you go back to your country to give that child the experience to round the child off as a bi-lingual mixed race child. as the OP has done.he said his child is back in OZ now.

if to farangs are raising their farang children here, then I wouldn't recommend thai state school (well I would if you plan on staying for 20 years.) but if you are only here for a short time , then of course don't bother.. but for the people who have mixed race children, it's important that child can relate to his peers in the future, he will one day have to sit down with thais, what is he going to say?" oh yeah I went to private school my whole life, I don't even speak thai"!

or he could say, I grew up thai, then was educated in the west!

this builds character! this builds indentity, this builds relationships.

the half thai needs to be understood, needs to breath, and needs to accept and understand.

this is very important in education also, and a lot of parents forget this, they only look at facts and figures,

but people need to look spiritual also, it's not easy being a mixed race person when you grow up!

when people are cheering on your country at the olympics, or in the worldcup, who are you cheering on?

when people ask you where are you from? where do you say?

ohh my passport is thai and American, but really I was educated in an international school,

my dad is American! my mum is thai!

Im............ummmmmmmmmmmmmm ............ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

thai state school makes your child thai! it gives him an indentity,

international schools just keeps you in transit for ever! and if you never return to the states or your home country for your child to feel American ,or British,

your child will forever have no indentity!

think about that.

I'm a loog-krueng with three nationalities who went to international schools and I never had any problems with my identity, within or without. I never felt confused, I never had any problems regarding acceptance, I can 'slum it' just like any 'native' if it suits me (in other words, I have full mobility in every direction across the spectrum of Thai society) and I speak all the main dialects of Thai bar the Southern one.

I saw capabilities rather than vulnerabilities; without thinking I turned what I was into strengths. It never even occurred to me to regard them as weaknesses.

Adaptability can be honed in juxtapositions such as international school / Thai surroundings outside school. Even at home I could not escape the juxtaposition of my country-girl mother from Chiang Rai with the old-school Englishness of my father with his endless stream of documentaries and television programming recorded on VHS and sent from England. . . in Bangkok!

I totally agree with what you have said about the positive sides and not the negative sides of mixed race kids. Not to deny that problems exist but let's not forget how much the world has changed and will change by the time our kids grow up. I don't know how old you are but I'm 40 and was brought up in a time where most people didn't go abroad as kids or speak other languages and the foreign kid in the class was 'different'. Fast forward to my son going to nursery in London (in a traditionally fairly white working class area) and no-one even realised he was mixed race until we had a chat about languages one day and found out that he was bilingual. I reckon about a third of his class was not 100% English. By the time he grows up I think those kids who have aspects of different cultures and are adaptable (not to mention multi lingual) will be in a very strong position - try to imagine how much things will change in 20 years in terms of international travel and mobility. I think that as you have said, kids like this just grow up with a flexible identity that is hard for the rest of us brought up in one country, with one culture and one language to comprehend

[swlondonmum]

there are pro's and cons for both.

in state school your kid will learn THAI! you ever tried writing it?

you kid will know ENglish too, because you speak English. and you will have him study it.

you can't study thai part time and be fluent..unless your wife is thai and speaks to him in thai 24/7

ohhh many farang here can't send their kids to state schools anyway.. can they?

many farangs dont have thai spouses.

International schools are over priced, over hyped, and just a place for people passing through.

if my wife was thai, and I was planning on living in thalland for 20 years, my kid would be in state school!

not because I can't afford international school.

but because I would want my kid to be fluent, and think native in thai, English can be the second language

being a native speaker in ENglish is not important compared to being a native speaker in thai.

for me , its a no brainer.. State school.

and home education in English.

or of course a private thai school

I don't understand your logic that your kids can go to a Thai school and learn Thai, then will learn English at home because you are an English speaker. Surely it is the same send your kid to an international school where they will learn English and they can learn Thai at home because the mum is Thai and/or they are living in Thailand and there are thainpeople everywhere. And if you want extra classes there are more thai teachers than English speaking teachers.

I can't comment on international schools as I don't know much about them but I didn't follow the point about how it was easier to learn English outside of school than Thai in general. And if you are planning to stay here for 20 years then Thai will be very important to your kid (whereas we are moving back to the uk so it is something that we want him to learn but not crucial to his existence) - i guess you can't predict where he will want to live and I know of several Thais in the uk who ate having problems moving back because they can't read/write Thai.

At the end of the day we can all only do what we think will be the best for our kids with the resources we have and our guesses about their future lives...

[StefanBBK]

there are pro's and cons for both.

in state school your kid will learn THAI! you ever tried writing it?

you kid will know ENglish too, because you speak English. and you will have him study it.

you can't study thai part time and be fluent..unless your wife is thai and speaks to him in thai 24/7

ohhh many farang here can't send their kids to state schools anyway.. can they?

many farangs dont have thai spouses.

International schools are over priced, over hyped, and just a place for people passing through.

if my wife was thai, and I was planning on living in thalland for 20 years, my kid would be in state school!

not because I can't afford international school.

but because I would want my kid to be fluent, and think native in thai, English can be the second language

being a native speaker in ENglish is not important compared to being a native speaker in thai.

for me , its a no brainer.. State school.

and home education in English.

or of course a private thai school

At the end of the day we can all only do what we think will be the best for our kids with the resources we have and our guesses about their future lives...

Correct. There is no solution that is right for all of us, as our circumstances are all very different. There are pros and cons to every type of school, as well as to individual schools.

The only thing that is quite apparent is that a majority of the "free" government schools are less likely to provide a good education.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[cbrer]

Lukreung kids may also be in for bullying from Thai teachers in bottom-line government schools.

A sad reflection of their resentment to those better off than them and with life-opportunities they can only dream of.

I've heard of teachers calling lukreung children 'farang noi' instead of their name when calling them, and other instances of bullying and picking on.

Edited February 7, 2013 by cbrer

[Thailaw]

If your child needs an identity through school, education is the last of your worries.

I'm bringing my child up to be himself, with encouragement and guidance. If he feels the need to categorise himself in life, I will have failed.

you have already categorized him by not giving him an Identity, he will be the category of Confused

its not about founding your identity in "the school" so to speak, it's if your child is learning a lnguage natively with native children

he will feel a patriotism towards that nation, as he is in the same boat as the local kids.

sure he will be mixed raced, but better than being a kid from an international school , who is basically a kid in transit.

It is you, I think, that is wallowing in the category of "Confused". It is better to be "a kid in transit" heading to the top of society, whether that be in Thailand or in the west, rather than to be stuck squarely and permanently at the bottom, with no real chance to live in or even explore the west if that is his/her choice. Do you seriously believe that any Thais in the upper 25% of income or wealth has their children in Thai government schools?? Being "in the same boat" as the kids in Thai government schools is not an especially good boat to be in -- it leaks badly, is over crowded, and is not headed in any direction worth going.

I want to provide my kids with a "bridge" between two countries and cultures, and not for the "benefit" of learning to speak Thai with lower income Thai children, sacrifice a quality education at a good private/international school. My kids go to a good international school, have or are developing very special and unique identities and can speak excellent Thai. They also can speak excellent English. They visit their Thai cousins (who all go to Thai government schools) and can speak and play with them effortlessly. They live in Thailand and they are Thai. But they are also western, and will have opportunities that simply are not available to most Thai (or even western) children. If they never develop feelings of "patriotism" toward Thailand, I could care less. I see them as 'citizens of the world", with opportunites for their futures that transcend borders -- kids in transition in an ever (and rapidly) changing world! -- life is a journey, and i want to prepare them for that journey where ever it may take them in the bast way possible, and that is not in a Thai government school! That you want to nail your children's feet to the floor here in Thailand (but creating feelings of "patriotism" in them, so that they are mindlessly happy in being stuck heret), wallowing at the bottom of Thai society, is unfortunate for them and speaks very badly for you. My Buddha, you really are confused! .

Edited February 7, 2013 by Thailaw

[asiasurfer]

I agree with the OP. I and my wife have the same opinion about these International Schools, especially the high end ones.

One problem with the kids' discipline is that teachers in private schools often shun correcting any misbehaviour of their pupils. The reason for that is because the students may complain to their parents, parents complain to the school, eventually parents taking their kid out of school possibly causing bad reputation for the school. The person who will be really in trouble is the teacher which caused all that "upheaval".

Of course I'm not talking for all schools, but I think a good state school or a medium priced private school will do...

Is this really the reason you choose not to send your kids to a top international school? Lack of discipline, not lack of money? I understand why some parents self justify their inability to send their kids to the best schools (im in the same boat), but i think its self defeating and utterly transparent to everyone what is going on.

Yes, you are right. Lack of money is also an issue here. But I still don't think it is necessary to send them to one of the expensive top schools...

[asiasurfer]

I agree with the OP. I and my wife have the same opinion about these International Schools, especially the high end ones.

One problem with the kids' discipline is that teachers in private schools often shun correcting any misbehaviour of their pupils. The reason for that is because the students may complain to their parents, parents complain to the school, eventually parents taking their kid out of school possibly causing bad reputation for the school. The person who will be really in trouble is the teacher which caused all that "upheaval".

Of course I'm not talking for all schools, but I think a good state school or a medium priced private school will do...

Is this really the reason you choose not to send your kids to a top international school? Lack of discipline, not lack of money? I understand why some parents self justify their inability to send their kids to the best schools (im in the same boat), but i think its self defeating and utterly transparent to everyone what is going on.

I studied at international schools and have taught in Thai government schools. I don't know where people get this idea that government schools have more discipline from. The students are trained to do a lot of wai-ing and sawatdeekhrapping but even that isn't always free of ostentatious sarcasm.

Government schools have very little recourse with poorly behaved students and seem to care even less, judging by the meaningful actions of staff and management (or lack thereof).

This is not fiction : http://www.stickmanb.../reader7485.htm . I don't know if it is supposed to be apocryphal but it applies to at least 50% of the classes that I've taught (I have no doubt that it would be more if I couldn't speak Thai), from primary to lower secondary school. The children face nil or negligible consequences for behaving like that. Read it and have a think about why or how behaviour like that prevails in the vast majority of Thai state schools. Here are some key words in case you need some pointers : corporate culture, teacher morale, teacher training, management culture.

International schools on the other hand have highly paid staff who are trained to spot problems very early on and nip them in the bud. In the unlikely event that international school students found the bottle to behave like they did in that stickman submission there would be serious consequences, not least because it affects the reputation of the school and therefore the school's ability to attract more fee-payers. Quite simply, teachers and management in international schools are generally professional enough to ensure that behaviour like that couldn't even take root in the school environment. In a government school those students might not even be reported and expulsion is not practiced.

International schools also retain professionally licensed counselors for students who have real problems and need to talk confidentially.

Now that's interesting...

[Smee]

I don't think any expat with kids to educate in Thailand, regardless of the spouses's nationality, should seriously consider anything other than an internaitonal school if they can possibly afford it.

We have three kids. One, the eldest, currently (but not for much longer) goes to what is considered a "good" Thai bilingual school (Sarasas Witaed Romklao). Sparing everyone the 20 paragraph diatribe, the school, which is renowned amongst Thais for its "excellent" academic record (it gets rid of all under-performing students at age 15 we have now discovered to our ever-lasting chagrin, .is is fact utterly useless, staffed largely by unprofessional, abusive and, so far as the Thai faculty is concerned, almost wholly non-English speaking teachers (this is a BI-LINGUAL school??? HA!!!). if in the UK, this "school" with over 4,500 students would be held acountable for countless infractions and failures to perform or deliver academically.

Plus, the fact that it accepts only cash for its fees and does not issue official tax receipts might lead a suspicious mind to the conclusion that the Catholic (Jesuit reportedly) operators of the school may be stealing more than just its student's academic futures... Ths is one school that teh tax authorities really ought to be auditing EXTREMELY carefully...

By the time he was 9, it was already clear that our son would never qualify for entry into an interntional school as his English was non-existent. It remains the same today. His academic career, and thereforee any hope of his getting a good job or a position in any university at all, is essentially over at age 15.

Two have been lucky enough to be able to go the internaitonal route, and between then have attended three different schools over the last nine years.

They are both at Ascot now and love it - as do we.

If I had had the money to get our eldest into an Intetrntional school when he first started school it would have been a far better inestment than the close to one million baht Thai bi-lingual schools have cost me over the last 12 years. For our poor son, ging the bi-lingual route has been a complete waste of his time and effort and has led him - and us - to an uncertain and grey future.