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Missing Russian Diver Found Dead In Phuket

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@ Soupdragon

You say diving is covered by the "majority" of insurance companies, but we don't know which company, if any, this guys was with.

As far as where the "facts lay" for this incident, as explanied, in perfect English, I hope the true cause of death is determined, and the Thai "detectives" simply do not dismiss the death as a drowning.

This guy was an experienced diver and had previous knowledge of the dive site, so, if he had a heart attack (very easily determined by an autopsy) ANY and ALL life insurance and/or travel insurance will cover the family for repatriation costs and their financial future, this many not be the case with certain insurance companies if the Thai "detectives" just dismiss his death as a drowing, whilst diving, because it's less paperwork for them.

Stick to subjects you know something about (it's going to be quiet here).

Show me any travel insurance policy which excludes free diving from the cover.

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@ stevenl

Can you tell me why you belive one news source over another? Or, where you received the information that he was free diving, not scuba diving?

The story as mentioned by PG just does not make sense for scuba diving, only for free diving. Plus no scuba gear on any of the photos, plus the police mentions (at least in the translation) a scuba suit but does not mention anything about breathing gear.

I took "suba suit" to mean a scuba vest, not a wetsuit. Why would you wear a scuba vest, without the breathing gear?

Anyway, as mentioned in another post, the article does not contain a lot of information. The journalist could have asked a few more questions. Eg. free dive or scuba dive - was he wearing his full scuba gear etc etc.

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@ stevenl

Can you tell me why you belive one news source over another? Or, where you received the information that he was free diving, not scuba diving?

The story as mentioned by PG just does not make sense for scuba diving, only for free diving. Plus no scuba gear on any of the photos, plus the police mentions (at least in the translation) a scuba suit but does not mention anything about breathing gear.

I took "suba suit" to mean a scuba vest, not a wetsuit. Why would you wear a scuba vest, without the breathing gear?

Anyway, as mentioned in another post, the article does not contain a lot of information. The journalist could have asked a few more questions. Eg. free dive or scuba dive - was he wearing his full scuba gear etc etc.

Yes, the journalist could and should have, but did not. And people here on the forum could have stuck to the facts, but did not, spreading misinformation here.

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@ stevenl

@ soupdragon

This is the insurance PDS of one of the bigger travel insurance companies in Australia, Covermore.

Diving is listed under:

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS

We will not pay for:

"14. claims involving participation by You or Your travelling companion
in hunting, racing (other than on foot), polo playing, hang gliding,
off-piste snow skiing or snowboarding, rodeo riding, BASE
jumping, sports activities in a professional capacity, mountaineering
or rock climbing using ropes or guides, scuba diving unless You
hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified
diving instructor."

The whole PDS can be viewed here:

http://www.covermore.com.au/aucm/pdf/pds/options.pdf

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@ stevenl

Can you tell me why you belive one news source over another? Or, where you received the information that he was free diving, not scuba diving?

The story as mentioned by PG just does not make sense for scuba diving, only for free diving. Plus no scuba gear on any of the photos, plus the police mentions (at least in the translation) a scuba suit but does not mention anything about breathing gear.

I took "suba suit" to mean a scuba vest, not a wetsuit. Why would you wear a scuba vest, without the breathing gear?

Anyway, as mentioned in another post, the article does not contain a lot of information. The journalist could have asked a few more questions. Eg. free dive or scuba dive - was he wearing his full scuba gear etc etc.

Yes, the journalist could and should have, but did not. And people here on the forum could have stuck to the facts, but did not, spreading misinformation here.

Well, those "facts" or lack of, are going to be pretty important to the deceased's family, in relation to life/travel insurance.

I may know nothing about diving, but I know a little about "contracts."

Like I said, "the bigger picture."

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@ stevenl

@ soupdragon

This is the insurance PDS of one of the bigger travel insurance companies in Australia, Covermore.

Diving is listed under:

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS

We will not pay for:

"14. claims involving participation by You or Your travelling companion

in hunting, racing (other than on foot), polo playing, hang gliding,

off-piste snow skiing or snowboarding, rodeo riding, BASE

jumping, sports activities in a professional capacity, mountaineering

or rock climbing using ropes or guides, scuba diving unless You

hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified

diving instructor."

The whole PDS can be viewed here:

http://www.covermore.com.au/aucm/pdf/pds/options.pdf

So even in that exception you have found scuba diving is covered. On top of that the accident here did not involve scuba diving, so the exclusion is not applicable.

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Its great to see all the usual PADI police preaching about the PADI standards and procedures. Whether he should be wearing a weight belt when free diving. What defines a scuba suit. The PADI buddy system should be enforced. Also discussions on whether it is illegal to spearfish whilst scuba diving. shallow water blackout. But the same preachers are bar fining girls and wearing knock off goods plus paying tea money to police. PADI Standards? No double standards! Now if you are basing your information on any Thai or Farang newspaper it really is a lost cause. Unless you were there its pointless speculating

Not quite sure why people advocating PADI standards have double standards!

Anyhow these are not just PADI but general diving practices.

Also what has that to do with bar fines etc, how do you know what these people do? Now you are speculating.

Agree with the last part though, nobody knows what happened. Probably never will.

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@ Soupdragon

You say diving is covered by the "majority" of insurance companies, but we don't know which company, if any, this guys was with.

As far as where the "facts lay" for this incident, as explanied, in perfect English, I hope the true cause of death is determined, and the Thai "detectives" simply do not dismiss the death as a drowning.

This guy was an experienced diver and had previous knowledge of the dive site, so, if he had a heart attack (very easily determined by an autopsy) ANY and ALL life insurance and/or travel insurance will cover the family for repatriation costs and their financial future, this many not be the case with certain insurance companies if the Thai "detectives" just dismiss his death as a drowing, whilst diving, because it's less paperwork for them.

Stick to subjects you know something about (it's going to be quiet here).

Show me any travel insurance policy which excludes free diving from the cover.

See below post, no mention of free diving, only scuba diving. I hope he was free diving, for insurance purposes.

You are in the industry. Any further information on this incident????

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@ Soupdragon

You say diving is covered by the "majority" of insurance companies, but we don't know which company, if any, this guys was with.

As far as where the "facts lay" for this incident, as explanied, in perfect English, I hope the true cause of death is determined, and the Thai "detectives" simply do not dismiss the death as a drowning.

This guy was an experienced diver and had previous knowledge of the dive site, so, if he had a heart attack (very easily determined by an autopsy) ANY and ALL life insurance and/or travel insurance will cover the family for repatriation costs and their financial future, this many not be the case with certain insurance companies if the Thai "detectives" just dismiss his death as a drowing, whilst diving, because it's less paperwork for them.

Stick to subjects you know something about (it's going to be quiet here).

Show me any travel insurance policy which excludes free diving from the cover.

See below post, no mention of free diving, only scuba diving. I hope he was free diving, for insurance purposes.

You are in the industry. Any further information on this incident????

In that example you gave scuba diving is covered. Got an example where free diving is excluded, or let's widen it, where scuba diving is excluded (the latter do exist).

Edited by stevenl

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@ stevenl

@ soupdragon

This is the insurance PDS of one of the bigger travel insurance companies in Australia, Covermore.

Diving is listed under:

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS

We will not pay for:

"14. claims involving participation by You or Your travelling companion

in hunting, racing (other than on foot), polo playing, hang gliding,

off-piste snow skiing or snowboarding, rodeo riding, BASE

jumping, sports activities in a professional capacity, mountaineering

or rock climbing using ropes or guides, scuba diving unless You

hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified

diving instructor."

The whole PDS can be viewed here:

http://www.covermore.com.au/aucm/pdf/pds/options.pdf

So even in that exception you have found scuba diving is covered. On top of that the accident here did not involve scuba diving, so the exclusion is not applicable.

I read it to be if the deceased was scuba diving and held an open water certificate, he would be covered - OR - he did not hold a certificate, but was diving with a dive instructor.

The article mentions he was with his wife (probably not a dive instructor) and does not mention if he held a dive certificate. Once again, crutial information for repatriation of the body (not cheap) and his family's financial future.

Like I said, it's a little more involved than just "farang go dive and drown - case close."

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@ stevenl

@ soupdragon

This is the insurance PDS of one of the bigger travel insurance companies in Australia, Covermore.

Diving is listed under:

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS

We will not pay for:

"14. claims involving participation by You or Your travelling companion

in hunting, racing (other than on foot), polo playing, hang gliding,

off-piste snow skiing or snowboarding, rodeo riding, BASE

jumping, sports activities in a professional capacity, mountaineering

or rock climbing using ropes or guides, scuba diving unless You

hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified

diving instructor."

The whole PDS can be viewed here:

http://www.covermore.com.au/aucm/pdf/pds/options.pdf

So even in that exception you have found scuba diving is covered. On top of that the accident here did not involve scuba diving, so the exclusion is not applicable.

I read it to be if the deceased was scuba diving and held an open water certificate, he would be covered - OR - he did not hold a certificate, but was diving with a dive instructor.

The article mentions he was with his wife (probably not a dive instructor) and does not mention if he held a dive certificate. Once again, crutial information for repatriation of the body (not cheap) and his family's financial future.

Like I said, it's a little more involved than just "farang go dive and drown - case close."

You have to make a distinction:

1) this accident, where the deceased was freediving, so the policy condition you mention is not applicable;

2) scuba diving, where the policy condition you mention is applicable, which in real life terms means: scuba diving is covered.

Again the question: show me any travel insurance policy where free diving is excluded, or even where scuba diving is excluded (yes, they do exist).

Or if you can't do that: shut up about diving not being covered on travel insurance.

Edited by stevenl

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Why are you guys bothering with all this unnecessary speculation?

We don't know the cause of death, we don't know what type of diving he was partaking in, we don't know if he has insurance or what the insurance policy covers or excludes.

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@ stevenl

@ soupdragon

This is the insurance PDS of one of the bigger travel insurance companies in Australia, Covermore.

Diving is listed under:

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS

We will not pay for:

"14. claims involving participation by You or Your travelling companion

in hunting, racing (other than on foot), polo playing, hang gliding,

off-piste snow skiing or snowboarding, rodeo riding, BASE

jumping, sports activities in a professional capacity, mountaineering

or rock climbing using ropes or guides, scuba diving unless You

hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified

diving instructor."

The whole PDS can be viewed here:

http://www.covermore.com.au/aucm/pdf/pds/options.pdf

So even in that exception you have found scuba diving is covered. On top of that the accident here did not involve scuba diving, so the exclusion is not applicable.

I read it to be if the deceased was scuba diving and held an open water certificate, he would be covered - OR - he did not hold a certificate, but was diving with a dive instructor.

The article mentions he was with his wife (probably not a dive instructor) and does not mention if he held a dive certificate. Once again, crutial information for repatriation of the body (not cheap) and his family's financial future.

Like I said, it's a little more involved than just "farang go dive and drown - case close."

You have to make a distinction:

1) this accident, where the deceased was freediving, so the policy condition you mention is not applicable;

2) scuba diving, where the policy condition you mention is applicable, which in real life terms means: scuba diving is covered.

Again the question: show me any travel insurance policy where free diving is excluded, or even where scuba diving is excluded (yes, they do exist).

Or if you can't do that: shut up about diving not being covered on travel insurance.

You keep banging on about "he was free diving" and I should shut up about diving because I know nothing about it - WHERE did you get this information from????

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Why are you guys bothering with all this unnecessary speculation?

We don't know the cause of death, we don't know what type of diving he was partaking in, we don't know if he has insurance or what the insurance policy covers or excludes.

Exactly.

If he was scuba diving - I hope he has a certificate and is covered.

If he was scuba diving without a certificate, I hope he was with a dive instructor, and therefore covered. If he wasn't, it appears he will not be covered.

If he was free diving, he is covered.

Of course, an autopsy may reveal he died of a heart attack, or similar, and therefore he is covered.

In my opinion, a piece of pretty ordinary journalism to not ask a few important questions. I hope the Thai investigator, and I use that term losely, find the facts, because they may be important to his family's financial future.

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So even in that exception you have found scuba diving is covered. On top of that the accident here did not involve scuba diving, so the exclusion is not applicable.

@ stevenl

@ soupdragon

This is the insurance PDS of one of the bigger travel insurance companies in Australia, Covermore.

Diving is listed under:

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS

We will not pay for:

"14. claims involving participation by You or Your travelling companion

in hunting, racing (other than on foot), polo playing, hang gliding,

off-piste snow skiing or snowboarding, rodeo riding, BASE

jumping, sports activities in a professional capacity, mountaineering

or rock climbing using ropes or guides, scuba diving unless You

hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified

diving instructor."

The whole PDS can be viewed here:

http://www.covermore.com.au/aucm/pdf/pds/options.pdf

I read it to be if the deceased was scuba diving and held an open water certificate, he would be covered - OR - he did not hold a certificate, but was diving with a dive instructor.

The article mentions he was with his wife (probably not a dive instructor) and does not mention if he held a dive certificate. Once again, crutial information for repatriation of the body (not cheap) and his family's financial future.

Like I said, it's a little more involved than just "farang go dive and drown - case close."

You have to make a distinction:

1) this accident, where the deceased was freediving, so the policy condition you mention is not applicable;

2) scuba diving, where the policy condition you mention is applicable, which in real life terms means: scuba diving is covered.

Again the question: show me any travel insurance policy where free diving is excluded, or even where scuba diving is excluded (yes, they do exist).

Or if you can't do that: shut up about diving not being covered on travel insurance.

You keep banging on about "he was free diving" and I should shut up about diving because I know nothing about it - WHERE did you get this information from????

You claim scuba diving is excluded on many travel insurance policies. So very simple question: show me the policies where excluded. You'll find one or two probably, but so far all you have managed is to find one where it is covered.

I have not said you should shut up about diving, I have said: "if you can't do that: shut up about diving not being covered on travel insurance". And I have already answered your question about where the information comes from.

And yes, Mitch is right, this is taking way too long about something that is only a side issue to the topic.

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