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Missing Russian Diver Found Dead In Phuket

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@ stevenl

It's not excluded, but comes with stipulations.

1) You have to be certified or

2) you have to be with a dive instructor.

Here is the relevant clause again:

"scuba diving unless You hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified diving instructor."

I accept the "picture" of the incident that the photos paint. I accept your opinion and I agree with it, based on the little public information available.

All I am saying is I hope that the Thai Police do this investigation properly so the real cause of death is established and, hopefully, his family is covered for travel/life insurance. If the Thai Police simply say, "farang go scuba diving and drown - case close" then the family have some legal issues.

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Covered for what, having his corpse shipped back home? Seems a trivial thing to argue about.

His travel insurance, and possibly his life insurance.

I have no idea what it costs to fly body home, but I would think it quite expensive.

In relation to life insurance, well, that could put his wife/family in a lot of financial ruin.

My life insurance policy covers me globally - one of the first things I looked for, because I knew I would not be in my home country. It doesn't cover things like motor racing, hand gliding etc etc. I do not know about diving because I am not into the sport,so I never bothered to check that out.

He's Russian, so, who knows what insurance they have over there.

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@ stevenl

It's not excluded, but comes with stipulations.

1) You have to be certified or

2) you have to be with a dive instructor.

Here is the relevant clause again:

"scuba diving unless You hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified diving instructor."

I accept the "picture" of the incident that the photos paint. I accept your opinion and I agree with it, based on the little public information available.

All I am saying is I hope that the Thai Police do this investigation properly so the real cause of death is established and, hopefully, his family is covered for travel/life insurance. If the Thai Police simply say, "farang go scuba diving and drown - case close" then the family have some legal issues.

So as mentioned, it is covered in real life under that clause.

Still waiting for your examples of exclusions.

And why would the police say he went scuba diving, since that is not what he did? Your chasing ghosts here, nothing of the sort, move on.

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@ stevenl

It's not excluded, but comes with stipulations.

1) You have to be certified or

2) you have to be with a dive instructor.

Here is the relevant clause again:

"scuba diving unless You hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified diving instructor."

I accept the "picture" of the incident that the photos paint. I accept your opinion and I agree with it, based on the little public information available.

All I am saying is I hope that the Thai Police do this investigation properly so the real cause of death is established and, hopefully, his family is covered for travel/life insurance. If the Thai Police simply say, "farang go scuba diving and drown - case close" then the family have some legal issues.

So as mentioned, it is covered in real life under that clause.

Still waiting for your examples of exclusions.

And why would the police say he went scuba diving, since that is not what he did? Your chasing ghosts here, nothing of the sort, move on.

What are you on about????

I NEVER said it was excluded - it comes with stipulations. It's the third time I've had to say this AND I even copied the clause from a PDS from a travel insurance company.

Ok - I'll speak in your language. The "exclusions" are if you dive without a dive certification, or without a qualified dive instructor - then you are NOT covered. Do you understand that????

Edited by NamKangMan

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@ stevenl

It's not excluded, but comes with stipulations.

1) You have to be certified or

2) you have to be with a dive instructor.

Here is the relevant clause again:

"scuba diving unless You hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified diving instructor."

I accept the "picture" of the incident that the photos paint. I accept your opinion and I agree with it, based on the little public information available.

All I am saying is I hope that the Thai Police do this investigation properly so the real cause of death is established and, hopefully, his family is covered for travel/life insurance. If the Thai Police simply say, "farang go scuba diving and drown - case close" then the family have some legal issues.

So as mentioned, it is covered in real life under that clause.

Still waiting for your examples of exclusions.

And why would the police say he went scuba diving, since that is not what he did? Your chasing ghosts here, nothing of the sort, move on.

What are you on about????

I NEVER said it was excluded - it comes with stipulations. It's the third time I've had to say this AND I even copied the clause from a PDS from a travel insurance company.

Ok - I'll speak in your language. The "exclusions" are if you dive without a dive certification, or without a qualified dive instructor - then you are NOT covered. Do you understand that????

You said in many insurance policies it is excluded, see your post # 32. Soupdragon and I disagreed with that, upon request you came with an insurance policy with a stipulation, and that stipulation results in scuba diving being covered on the mentioned policy, since in real life divers are either certified or dive with an instructor.

So again, I am still waiting for your examples of exclusions, but for some reason I have the feeling you can't come up with those.

On top of that, that stipulation is not even applicable here, since the deceased was free diving, not scuba diving.

Edited by stevenl

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@ stevenl

It's not excluded, but comes with stipulations.

1) You have to be certified or

2) you have to be with a dive instructor.

Here is the relevant clause again:

"scuba diving unless You hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified diving instructor."

I accept the "picture" of the incident that the photos paint. I accept your opinion and I agree with it, based on the little public information available.

All I am saying is I hope that the Thai Police do this investigation properly so the real cause of death is established and, hopefully, his family is covered for travel/life insurance. If the Thai Police simply say, "farang go scuba diving and drown - case close" then the family have some legal issues.

So as mentioned, it is covered in real life under that clause.

Still waiting for your examples of exclusions.

And why would the police say he went scuba diving, since that is not what he did? Your chasing ghosts here, nothing of the sort, move on.

What are you on about????

I NEVER said it was excluded - it comes with stipulations. It's the third time I've had to say this AND I even copied the clause from a PDS from a travel insurance company.

Ok - I'll speak in your language. The "exclusions" are if you dive without a dive certification, or without a qualified dive instructor - then you are NOT covered. Do you understand that????

You said in many insurance policies it is excluded, see your post # 32. Soupdragon and I disagreed with that, upon request you came with an insurance policy with a stipulation, and that stipulation results in scuba diving being covered on the mentioned policy, since in real life divers are either certified or dive with an instructor.

So again, I am still waiting for your examples of exclusions, but for some reason I have the feeling you can't come up with those.

On top of that, that stipulation is not even applicable here, since the deceased was free diving, not scuba diving.

If you go diving without certification and without a qualified dive instructor - you are not covered, therefore "EXCLUDED" from insurance coverage. You have the PDS. It states this clearly.

"In real life divers are either certified or or dive with an instructor" - I agree with this. I have done dives before, with instructors. If something went wrong, I would still be covered. That said, "in real life" is very broad, and many people lose touch with "in real life" in Thailand/Phuket. Prime example, the hundreds that ride motorbikes here and are not insured.

This guy was free diving at the time of his death - he would/should be covered.

However, he had his scuba equipment, so I gather at some stage he was going to use it. So, let's just say for one minute, the deceased was scuba diving, without certification, and died. He was only in the company of his wife and a long tail boat owner, both I gather would also not be certified, therefore, he would not have been covered.

I'm always happy to learn, so, here's a couple of questions. Can someone rent scuba gear without producing their certification on Phuket? Can someone buy scuba gear without producing certification?

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So as mentioned, it is covered in real life under that clause.

Still waiting for your examples of exclusions.

And why would the police say he went scuba diving, since that is not what he did? Your chasing ghosts here, nothing of the sort, move on.

What are you on about????

I NEVER said it was excluded - it comes with stipulations. It's the third time I've had to say this AND I even copied the clause from a PDS from a travel insurance company.

Ok - I'll speak in your language. The "exclusions" are if you dive without a dive certification, or without a qualified dive instructor - then you are NOT covered. Do you understand that????

You said in many insurance policies it is excluded, see your post # 32. Soupdragon and I disagreed with that, upon request you came with an insurance policy with a stipulation, and that stipulation results in scuba diving being covered on the mentioned policy, since in real life divers are either certified or dive with an instructor.

So again, I am still waiting for your examples of exclusions, but for some reason I have the feeling you can't come up with those.

On top of that, that stipulation is not even applicable here, since the deceased was free diving, not scuba diving.

If you go diving without certification and without a qualified dive instructor - you are not covered, therefore "EXCLUDED" from insurance coverage. You have the PDS. It states this clearly.

"In real life divers are either certified or or dive with an instructor" - I agree with this. I have done dives before, with instructors. If something went wrong, I would still be covered. That said, "in real life" is very broad, and many people lose touch with "in real life" in Thailand/Phuket. Prime example, the hundreds that ride motorbikes here and are not insured.

This guy was free diving at the time of his death - he would/should be covered.

However, he had his scuba equipment, so I gather at some stage he was going to use it. So, let's just say for one minute, the deceased was scuba diving, without certification, and died. He was only in the company of his wife and a long tail boat owner, both I gather would also not be certified, therefore, he would not have been covered.

I'm always happy to learn, so, here's a couple of questions. Can someone rent scuba gear without producing their certification on Phuket? Can someone buy scuba gear without producing certification?

Please show any article that says he had SCUBA tanks and regulator. Why is it you like to beat a dead horse with so many articles that say nothing that you want to imply? There was no mention of insurance, was there? There was no mention of a SCUBA tank and regulator or buoyancy compensator. Only a wetsuit and fins were mentioned or seen in the photos that I directed you to on the other news source.

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Got tired of reading all the rant. Got thrue half the thread.

Here is my humble input.

All speculation aside

Seems he was free diving alone. Big bad mistake. Even freedivers should have a buddy.

I also freedive often for abalone. I was taught that one should not do more than two dives in quick succession. Always spend a few minutes at surface in between. Sounds like from the article that he was doing many in quick succession?

Article say he was wearing a "scuba suit" A bit misleading as a wetsuit and a scuba suit are the same thing. Poor choice I think in this scuba description?

I know a few deep freedivers who do weight for neg buoyancy when goin deep. But they are diving for depth, not spearfishing. Although It's not unheard of.

I must say that 10m is pretty deep for breath-hold spear fishing. But I'm comparing that to cold northern California pacific waters and that is a whole 'nuther ball a wax when it comes to buoyancy, weighting an depth due to the increase in suit mm and weights AND the cold cold water.

I feel sad for the fella. What a tragedy no matter the cause. There are many more things that could have gone wrong for this guy to cause his demise underwater. If he had a buddy with him maybe it would have been prevented. Who knows.

Rip fellow lover of the oceans.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

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I also freedive often for abalone. I was taught that one should not do more than two dives in quick succession. Always spend a few minutes at surface in between. Sounds like from the article that he was doing many in quick succession? (snipped)

Let me try to explain the reason for this.

First understand two things :-

  1. The urge to breath is caused by the build up of carbon dioxide in the body, not the lack of oxygen.
  2. You brain needs oxygen levels in between certain parameters to function . The level of oxygen is described as the partial pressure of oxygen (PPO2). At the surface the PPO2 in the air the diver breathes is 0.21 (21% expressed as a decimal). The PPO2 increases as you dive down. At ten metres underwater the ambient pressure is double and so pressure of the air in the divers lungs also doubles and the (PPO2) would be 0.42.

At the surface a freediver commonly hyperventilates before diving. Most people believe this elevates oxygen levels in the body but what it actually does is lower carbon dioxide levels so extending the time before the breathing reflex is triggered. As they dive and swim the body metabolizes oxygen and converts it to carbon dioxide, obviously the longer they are down the more oxygen is metabolized and the more the PPO2 also drops. Now at depth and under pressure PPO2 is kept within limits but as you ascend the ambient pressure drops sharply and with it the PPO2. If the PPO2 drops below 0.16 you run the risk of blacking out abruptly, shallow water blackout. If the diver is not positively buoyant he will sink back into the water.

Now if the diver makes several dives in quick succession the PPO2 levels in the blood don’t have time to return to normal and the risk of a blackout is greatly increased.

Edited by Soupdragon

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So as mentioned, it is covered in real life under that clause.

@ stevenl

It's not excluded, but comes with stipulations.

1) You have to be certified or

2) you have to be with a dive instructor.

Here is the relevant clause again:

"scuba diving unless You hold an Open Water Diving Certificate or are diving with a qualified diving instructor."

I accept the "picture" of the incident that the photos paint. I accept your opinion and I agree with it, based on the little public information available.

All I am saying is I hope that the Thai Police do this investigation properly so the real cause of death is established and, hopefully, his family is covered for travel/life insurance. If the Thai Police simply say, "farang go scuba diving and drown - case close" then the family have some legal issues.

Still waiting for your examples of exclusions.

And why would the police say he went scuba diving, since that is not what he did? Your chasing ghosts here, nothing of the sort, move on.

What are you on about????

I NEVER said it was excluded - it comes with stipulations. It's the third time I've had to say this AND I even copied the clause from a PDS from a travel insurance company.

Ok - I'll speak in your language. The "exclusions" are if you dive without a dive certification, or without a qualified dive instructor - then you are NOT covered. Do you understand that????

You said in many insurance policies it is excluded, see your post # 32. Soupdragon and I disagreed with that, upon request you came with an insurance policy with a stipulation, and that stipulation results in scuba diving being covered on the mentioned policy, since in real life divers are either certified or dive with an instructor.

So again, I am still waiting for your examples of exclusions, but for some reason I have the feeling you can't come up with those.

On top of that, that stipulation is not even applicable here, since the deceased was free diving, not scuba diving.

If you go diving without certification and without a qualified dive instructor - you are not covered, therefore "EXCLUDED" from insurance coverage. You have the PDS. It states this clearly.

"In real life divers are either certified or or dive with an instructor" - I agree with this. I have done dives before, with instructors. If something went wrong, I would still be covered. That said, "in real life" is very broad, and many people lose touch with "in real life" in Thailand/Phuket. Prime example, the hundreds that ride motorbikes here and are not insured.

This guy was free diving at the time of his death - he would/should be covered.

However, he had his scuba equipment, so I gather at some stage he was going to use it. So, let's just say for one minute, the deceased was scuba diving, without certification, and died. He was only in the company of his wife and a long tail boat owner, both I gather would also not be certified, therefore, he would not have been covered.

I'm always happy to learn, so, here's a couple of questions. Can someone rent scuba gear without producing their certification on Phuket? Can someone buy scuba gear without producing certification?

You brought up insurance, you have been rebuted there on several fronts and are now coming up with new presumptions, all based on nothing, and are distracting in another direction.

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10m isn't that deep. I would say it's about average.

40m is deep dive.

it is deep if you have congestive heart disease or another circulatory disease.

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Im glad detective stevenl is on the case. Anything diving related and he is the expert. Absolutely no one here knows what went on because you are basing assumptions on a reporter. The news in Thailand is up there with the worst in the world.

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I also freedive often for abalone. I was taught that one should not do more than two dives in quick succession. Always spend a few minutes at surface in between. Sounds like from the article that he was doing many in quick succession? (snipped)

Let me try to explain the reason for this.

First understand two things :-

  1. The urge to breath is caused by the build up of carbon dioxide in the body, not the lack of oxygen.
  2. You brain needs oxygen levels in between certain parameters to function . The level of oxygen is described as the partial pressure of oxygen (PPO2). At the surface the PPO2 in the air the diver breathes is 0.21 (21% expressed as a decimal). The PPO2 increases as you dive down. At ten metres underwater the ambient pressure is double and so pressure of the air in the divers lungs also doubles and the (PPO2) would be 0.42.

At the surface a freediver commonly hyperventilates before diving. Most people believe this elevates oxygen levels in the body but what it actually does is lower carbon dioxide levels so extending the time before the breathing reflex is triggered. As they dive and swim the body metabolizes oxygen and converts it to carbon dioxide, obviously the longer they are down the more oxygen is metabolized and the more the PPO2 also drops. Now at depth and under pressure PPO2 is kept within limits but as you ascend the ambient pressure drops sharply and with it the PPO2. If the PPO2 drops below 0.16 you run the risk of blacking out abruptly, shallow water blackout. If the diver is not positively buoyant he will sink back into the water.

Now if the diver makes several dives in quick succession the PPO2 levels in the blood don’t have time to return to normal and the risk of a blackout is greatly increased.

What you said is correct except hyperventilating increases the chance of shallow water blackout as divers tend to stay down longer due to the lack of breathing reflex ( less CO2 in the blood).

I believe it will be the case of "falang went scuba diving and drowned" just because many Thais (I think cops and investigators can as well be included) have no idea what scuba is, for them diving (any) = scuba diving, these words just come together...

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@ Jimi007

“It appears from his scuba suit and equipment that he was an experienced diver. We know that he had dived in the area before,” said Pol Lt Col Pachai Mattayan of Karon Police.

“It looks as though he dived deep, because some of the fish he brought back up to the boat before he disappeared live at least 10 metres below the surface.”

"scuba suit and EQUIPMENT" - since when are flippers and a speargun classified as "scuba equipment."

This is what lead me to believe he was scuba diving, however, due to the little information we have, and the photos, I have conceded he may have been free diving at the time, and hope this is the case for insurance purposes for his family.

In relation to mentioning insurance, I bought it up, because I hope Thai Police do not just write this off as "drowning whilst scuba diving" because then the insurance may refuse to pay.

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