Water Tanks, Plastic Or Stainless Steel?

[cdmtdm]

The first three properties in our village all have ponds/reservoirs and they sell what the Thais call ' sweet water '. Some people use this for drinking water, others for washing etc. It goes out on trucks with a variety of water tanks though none are stainless steel. Most of the delivery guys use galvanised tanks, and a couple of the guys use what are known as ' octabins ' . For those of you who don't know what an octabin is, it's a plastic container that can hold 1,000 litres and is contained within a metal frame with a built in pallet. They can be bought just about anywhere for 2,500 to 3,000 baht. They are very light, and already have a tap fitted. Big problem is at this price, theses tanks are second hand and most people are unaware of what's been in them. Back in the ' good old days ', I used to truck them around Europe and have carried a variety of products contained therein from wallpaper paste to chemicals -- read acid. Long term storage of water in octabins where exposed to sunlight will also get a buildup of algae which isn't poisonous but isn't that good. Back to the plot. The galvanised tanks do rust eventually and the guys often weld them up which in itself creates more rust, hence my mentioning in my previous post about buying my drinking water direct and at source from the local water company which has an impressive filtration system ( though this in itself doesn't prove the quality of the water -- I just know it tastes fine ).

We also collect our rain water from the roof, but because I've never heard of the ' first flow surge diverters ' mentioned by Mubcrab, I included a t-piece and tap into the downpipe so I can close the tap and let the first few minutes of water, dust and bird kee run off before opening the tap and filling our containers which are blue fibre-glass ( very expensive at about 6,000 baht each ) and hold 2,200 litres. We pump some of this water into a 750 litre tank which is in the roof of our house so we can have showers etc when the village supply errr, doesn't supply.

A couple of days ago, I was discussing the water problem with a Canadian friend of mine who lives right out in the sticks. On their ' plot ', they have three houses and several other buildings, about seven in all such as rice houses, cow shed, pigsty etc. Apart from his house, the rain from all the other buildings just runs off onto the ground. We concluded that a good but expensive idea would be to install gutters and downpipes and collect the water in concrete pots ( about 600 baht each ) so the animals have a water supply at the building. This would be a lot more expensive than what is done right now, and that's to run a long hose and turn on the bore pump. I guess you have to think which way would be more satisfying. What I did suggest and this echoes Xylophone's posting, was to construct an underground concrete tank to store water. Anybody who lives in London will be well aquainted with this system of water storage -- and these tanks are huge. Obviously they need to be constructed near the house, preferably at the time of construction. As a suggestion, you could have a tank say 3 meters x 4 x 2 metres deep -- 24,000 litres of cool water. You'd need an inspection hatch obviously, and above the tank you could construct a ' sala ' so you'd be sitting on your water storage.

If you're not all asleep by now, I hope this post has been of some use and information. If not -- sorry.

I would love to do the underground storage but sadly there is rock about 1 metre or so below ground so mine would have to be semi underground.

I would make 2 tanks side by side interconnected by 3 or 4 inch pipes close to the bottom and I would look at each tank as 8 x 4 x 2 metres giving me a maximum of 64,000 litres or twice what I have now.. We have had no government supplied water for 2 months now but we have had around 18 ongs worth say 25,000 litres delivered by the local fire truck and most of my tanks are close to full but they were full before the tap was turned off.

how would u construct these tanks ? using concrete and steel ?

[billd766]

The first three properties in our village all have ponds/reservoirs and they sell what the Thais call ' sweet water '. Some people use this for drinking water, others for washing etc. It goes out on trucks with a variety of water tanks though none are stainless steel. Most of the delivery guys use galvanised tanks, and a couple of the guys use what are known as ' octabins ' . For those of you who don't know what an octabin is, it's a plastic container that can hold 1,000 litres and is contained within a metal frame with a built in pallet. They can be bought just about anywhere for 2,500 to 3,000 baht. They are very light, and already have a tap fitted. Big problem is at this price, theses tanks are second hand and most people are unaware of what's been in them. Back in the ' good old days ', I used to truck them around Europe and have carried a variety of products contained therein from wallpaper paste to chemicals -- read acid. Long term storage of water in octabins where exposed to sunlight will also get a buildup of algae which isn't poisonous but isn't that good. Back to the plot. The galvanised tanks do rust eventually and the guys often weld them up which in itself creates more rust, hence my mentioning in my previous post about buying my drinking water direct and at source from the local water company which has an impressive filtration system ( though this in itself doesn't prove the quality of the water -- I just know it tastes fine ).

We also collect our rain water from the roof, but because I've never heard of the ' first flow surge diverters ' mentioned by Mubcrab, I included a t-piece and tap into the downpipe so I can close the tap and let the first few minutes of water, dust and bird kee run off before opening the tap and filling our containers which are blue fibre-glass ( very expensive at about 6,000 baht each ) and hold 2,200 litres. We pump some of this water into a 750 litre tank which is in the roof of our house so we can have showers etc when the village supply errr, doesn't supply.

A couple of days ago, I was discussing the water problem with a Canadian friend of mine who lives right out in the sticks. On their ' plot ', they have three houses and several other buildings, about seven in all such as rice houses, cow shed, pigsty etc. Apart from his house, the rain from all the other buildings just runs off onto the ground. We concluded that a good but expensive idea would be to install gutters and downpipes and collect the water in concrete pots ( about 600 baht each ) so the animals have a water supply at the building. This would be a lot more expensive than what is done right now, and that's to run a long hose and turn on the bore pump. I guess you have to think which way would be more satisfying. What I did suggest and this echoes Xylophone's posting, was to construct an underground concrete tank to store water. Anybody who lives in London will be well aquainted with this system of water storage -- and these tanks are huge. Obviously they need to be constructed near the house, preferably at the time of construction. As a suggestion, you could have a tank say 3 meters x 4 x 2 metres deep -- 24,000 litres of cool water. You'd need an inspection hatch obviously, and above the tank you could construct a ' sala ' so you'd be sitting on your water storage.

If you're not all asleep by now, I hope this post has been of some use and information. If not -- sorry.

I would love to do the underground storage but sadly there is rock about 1 metre or so below ground so mine would have to be semi underground.

I would make 2 tanks side by side interconnected by 3 or 4 inch pipes close to the bottom and I would look at each tank as 8 x 4 x 2 metres giving me a maximum of 64,000 litres or twice what I have now.. We have had no government supplied water for 2 months now but we have had around 18 ongs worth say 25,000 litres delivered by the local fire truck and most of my tanks are close to full but they were full before the tap was turned off.

how would u construct these tanks ? using concrete and steel ?

The way I figure it I will need to hire a makro or bucket digger to dig down as far as possible and make me a hole slightly larger than 8 x 8 x 2 which would be 2 side by side tanks. Bear in mind you may have to pay to get the spoil removed or not and it will come to about 130 cubic metres depending on how deep I can get dug.

The reason for the 4 metres is the size of the concrete slabs for the "roof".

I would make the floor at least 25cm thick as it will be supporting around 70 tons though in turn it will be supported by the ground underneath and on the sides and I would use thick rebar mesh sheets bent up at the ends and sides.

Put a wall down the middle to support one end of the roof slabs and make the outer walls plus the centre wall 10 to 15 cm thick and make sure the rebar mesh goes around the corners for strengthening. The width will also support the other side of the roof slabs. I may have to make a concrete frame to support an access hole at one corner at least 1 metre square.

When laying the centre wall I need to put three or four 4 or 6 inch pipes to allow the water to circulate between the 2 tanks.

My tanks will be at least 100 metres from the meter so i will need to re-lay a new pipe for that. I would replace the Mitsubishi well pump with a Grundfos if I could find one with an adjustable water pressure outlet valve so I don't blow my existing water pipes and then have to re-plumb the houses.

If you give me a couple of days I will try to knock up a drawing and some figures.

[bunnydrops]

I have both the SS 3000L, and the plastic 2200L. No problems with the SS. The Plastic bulges about a foot from the ground when the water gets hot in the tank on the sunny side. Will cover in the future.

[Bkkbound]

Back to the question of steel water tanks, due to an useasonably low rainfall in my part of the world, khemmerat, and to which I arrive tomorrow, we have no water!

As I am arriving with two young kids.I,m going to need to get some 30000 ltr steel tanks installed ASAP and then try and get a water delivery whilst we use up copious amounts of bottled water until normal service resumes.

Do the guys who sell the steel tanks do installation ? I realise I.,ll need a concrete base which we should get down in a day.

It is of course quite possible that its rains for the next 4 weeks!

JP

[MartinL]

For much the same reasons as OP, I've been looking at storage tanks recently. I'm probably in the market for a stainless steel tank, in an enclosure, for reasons of longevity.

Another important consideration, for me, is that our town water supply can be quite dirty with a fair bit of suspended material in it.

All the plastic tanks I've seen have been flat-bottomed with the take-off tappings at the very bottom of the tank whereas the stainless tanks are dished at the bottom and the take-off is some way above the base of the tank with a drain connection at the lowest point of the tank. The storage tank can therefore be the first stage of the water filtering process - larger particles settle in the dished bottom of the tank & can be drained off at short regular intervals, lightening the load on the main filtration equipment.

[kamalabob2]

For the OP to consider who lives in Ubon Ratchathani Province: In Buriram it is less money for a water pump installation or water tank(s) from a high volume independent water pump specialist than the price quoted at the Buriram Homepro or Buriram Thai Watsadu, for water tank installation or water pump installations. Also less money to purchase the identical water pumps or identical water tanks. No need to "special order" from Bangkok if you wanted a 3000 liter or even a 5000 liter water tank. It can't be a unique situation to Buriram Province, where a local water pump specialists has stock on hand and can deliver and install items as soon as your concrete pad is ready. Certainly lower prices than chain stores for the name brand water tank, name brand water pump, delivery and guaranteed installation. I've had four 2000 liter Diamond Brand Sandstone LLDPE tanks installed and three 2000 liter Diamond Brand Evergreen LLDPE tanks installed by Ruangsangthai. All with a 20 year guarantee from a shop owner who understands and speaks English. There must be similar family owned water pump specialists in Ubon Ratchathani that can save you money and give you more personal "after the sales" service. We have 4500 liters of clean water stored for use inside our garage as the municipal water can stop working for days at a time. In our province the main Government Hospital Medical Center has a series of water tanks, water pumps and water filters all installed and serviced by the same family owned, long established independent water pump specialists, Ruangsangthai. In Buriram Province the largest sports stadium has a series of water filter tanks, water storage tanks, water pumps all installed by Ruangsangthai. The owner of the Buriram Pump Shop has indicated to me that certain brands of stainless steel water tanks he sells are of a higher quality than other brands, and each brand has several "lines" with different quality levels. I have also seen a stainless steel tank blow over that was empty and not yet properly mounted on the concrete pad. The higher quality (not blue) "plastic" tanks are easy to compare, and in Ubon Ratchathani there must be a similar high volume, low overhead "pump shop" that is who actually supplies the Universities, Hospitals, Shopping Centers and Thai business owners with cost effective water storage, water cleaning solutions. It can cost way less, you can get better REAL advise, obtain the personal mobile phone number of the business owner, and have a professional installation, much better satisfaction with "after the sale" service if you go in person to meet with the owner of a high volume independent pump shop in Ubon Ratchathani. A similar "pump shop" in Korat is near the municipal Airport on Highway 226. A store that sells window curtains, imported Italian tile or mattresses might not be the best place to obtain the best advise, lowest prices, most professional installation of water pumps and water tanks. The more successful Thai business owners know who in their province is the "go to guy" for water solutions.

[Ticketmaster]

For much the same reasons as OP, I've been looking at storage tanks recently. I'm probably in the market for a stainless steel tank, in an enclosure, for reasons of longevity.

Another important consideration, for me, is that our town water supply can be quite dirty with a fair bit of suspended material in it.

All the plastic tanks I've seen have been flat-bottomed with the take-off tappings at the very bottom of the tank whereas the stainless tanks are dished at the bottom and the take-off is some way above the base of the tank with a drain connection at the lowest point of the tank. The storage tank can therefore be the first stage of the water filtering process - larger particles settle in the dished bottom of the tank & can be drained off at short regular intervals, lightening the load on the main filtration equipment.

That is EXACTLY why I chose a stainless steel tank . . .

Edited June 17, 2013 by Ticketmaster

[MYKTHEMIN]

For much the same reasons as OP, I've been looking at storage tanks recently. I'm probably in the market for a stainless steel tank, in an enclosure, for reasons of longevity.

Another important consideration, for me, is that our town water supply can be quite dirty with a fair bit of suspended material in it.

All the plastic tanks I've seen have been flat-bottomed with the take-off tappings at the very bottom of the tank whereas the stainless tanks are dished at the bottom and the take-off is some way above the base of the tank with a drain connection at the lowest point of the tank. The storage tank can therefore be the first stage of the water filtering process - larger particles settle in the dished bottom of the tank & can be drained off at short regular intervals, lightening the load on the main filtration equipment.

That is EXACTLY why I chose a stainless steel tank . . .

Well I have a large plastic tank and the outlet is well above the bottom and all the sediment settles in this area and can then be drained off when required via the lower outlet, SO NO PROBLEM with plastic tanks in my opinion!

[Ticketmaster]

For much the same reasons as OP, I've been looking at storage tanks recently. I'm probably in the market for a stainless steel tank, in an enclosure, for reasons of longevity.

Another important consideration, for me, is that our town water supply can be quite dirty with a fair bit of suspended material in it.

All the plastic tanks I've seen have been flat-bottomed with the take-off tappings at the very bottom of the tank whereas the stainless tanks are dished at the bottom and the take-off is some way above the base of the tank with a drain connection at the lowest point of the tank. The storage tank can therefore be the first stage of the water filtering process - larger particles settle in the dished bottom of the tank & can be drained off at short regular intervals, lightening the load on the main filtration equipment.

That is EXACTLY why I chose a stainless steel tank . . .

Well I have a large plastic tank and the outlet is well above the bottom and all the sediment settles in this area and can then be drained off when required via the lower outlet, SO NO PROBLEM with plastic tanks in my opinion!

I know what you are saying, and you are right. I have looked at dozens and dozens of tanks. The difference is that the plastic tanks have a flat bottom with the drain on the side, while many of the steel tanks have a convex bottom with the drain right in the middle of the bottom (the tank is on a little stand). That way when you open the drain valve, it sucks the sediment right from the lowest part of the tank, wasting less water that if the drain came from the side with a flat bottom.

[Yme]

If constructing an in ground tank with concrete floor and bricked walls - whether rendered or not - a plastic membrane is strongly recommended under the base and up the outside of the walls to stop ground water contamination leeching through. The stuff I've used before was pink and came on a roll with the sheet width twice the height of the roll and rolled onto the tube folded in half

[brimacthai]

I found that the plastic tank we had was the source of some skin irritations. When I went to see the doctor the first thing he asked was do I have a plastic water tank.

Many people covered the issues with corrosion in stainless steel tanks... usually due to poor welding techniques and not using stainless steel connections. If the maker used brass pipe connections or a low grade of stainless, the dissimilar metals will react with each other and cause corrosion. Also iron in your water supply can be a source of corrosion.

Buying a good quality and brand of stainless steel tank should be able to handle any water condition.

Hope this helps you.

[Soutpeel]

I do not agree. Even SS316 and SS304 will rust in an iron rich surrounding. Water with a high content iron will maje every SS tank rust. And if you ad chlorine in your tank, thenkife time is extreme short.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In practical terms you are most likely correct, the reason iron causes stainless steel to corrode is because the free iron interferes with the formation/ reformation of the chrome oxide layer, ie the thing which makes stainless, stainless, typical one may only see brown dirty marks on the stainless this may not be actual active oxidation/ corrosion of the stainless and cleaning the stainless down with citric acid will get rid of it

Have to bare in mind iron contamination of stainless typically doesn't cause, mass corrosion of the stainless, but pin holes in the material some very small indeed

And yes chlorine/ chlorides can play havoc with stainless steel, 304 grade being more susceptible than 316 grade, but not saying 316 will could have problems as well

To comment on the welding issues in the other post, typically it's not to do with bad welding technique, but to do with the lack of post weld processing, ie pickling and passivation of the weld, during welding free iron is liberated from the stainless steel due to welding temperatures, if this free iron is not removed from the surface by pickling & passivation allowing the chrome oxide layer to form properly then rusting will occur, an easy visual check to see if P&P has been done......if there is a bluish tinge or discoloration on the weld, known as heat tint....this weld has not been pickled & passivated and one will expect to see oxidation at the weld

Edited September 12, 2013 by Soutpeel

[brimacthai]

I do not agree. Even SS316 and SS304 will rust in an iron rich surrounding. Water with a high content iron will maje every SS tank rust. And if you ad chlorine in your tank, thenkife time is extreme short.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In practical terms you are most likely correct, the reason iron causes stainless steel to corrode is because the free iron interferes with the formation/ reformation of the chrome oxide layer, ie the thing which makes stainless, stainless, typical one may only see brown dirty marks on the stainless this may not be actual active oxidation/ corrosion of the stainless and cleaning the stainless down with citric acid will get rid of it

Have to bare in mind iron contamination of stainless typically doesn't cause, mass corrosion of the stainless, but pin holes in the material some very small indeed

And yes chlorine/ chlorides can play havoc with stainless steel, 304 grade being more susceptible than 316 grade, but not saying 316 will could have problems as well

To comment on the welding issues in the other post, typically it's not to do with bad welding technique, but to do with the lack of post weld processing, ie pickling and passivation of the weld, during welding free iron is liberated from the stainless steel due to welding temperatures, if this free iron is not removed from the surface by pickling & passivation allowing the chrome oxide layer to form properly then rusting will occur, an easy visual check to see if P&P has been done......if there is a bluish tinge or discoloration on the weld, known as heat tint....this weld has not been pickled & passivated and one will expect to see oxidation at the weld

I would have considered pre and post as part of the welding technique... if it's not... my bad... didn't know I had to be so literal.

[Soutpeel]

I do not agree. Even SS316 and SS304 will rust in an iron rich surrounding. Water with a high content iron will maje every SS tank rust. And if you ad chlorine in your tank, thenkife time is extreme short.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In practical terms you are most likely correct, the reason iron causes stainless steel to corrode is because the free iron interferes with the formation/ reformation of the chrome oxide layer, ie the thing which makes stainless, stainless, typical one may only see brown dirty marks on the stainless this may not be actual active oxidation/ corrosion of the stainless and cleaning the stainless down with citric acid will get rid of it

Have to bare in mind iron contamination of stainless typically doesn't cause, mass corrosion of the stainless, but pin holes in the material some very small indeed

And yes chlorine/ chlorides can play havoc with stainless steel, 304 grade being more susceptible than 316 grade, but not saying 316 will could have problems as well

To comment on the welding issues in the other post, typically it's not to do with bad welding technique, but to do with the lack of post weld processing, ie pickling and passivation of the weld, during welding free iron is liberated from the stainless steel due to welding temperatures, if this free iron is not removed from the surface by pickling & passivation allowing the chrome oxide layer to form properly then rusting will occur, an easy visual check to see if P&P has been done......if there is a bluish tinge or discoloration on the weld, known as heat tint....this weld has not been pickled & passivated and one will expect to see oxidation at the weld

I would have considered pre and post as part of the welding technique... if it's not... my bad... didn't know I had to be so literal.

Do get me wrong, I am not having a go at you, just explaining a common corrosion problem when comes to welding stainless, stainless steel is a wonderful material, but process it incorrectly etc it can and will fail on you

[NeverSure]

We used to make sediment filters for our stock (cattle) watering troughs with a simple principle. The water coming from the wind pump (windmill) was in a 1" pipe. We'd step up the pipe size to 2" right where it bent from the ground to go up and over the top edge (lip) of the trough.

You math majors can tell me how much bigger in area a 2" pipe is than a 1" but it's about 4x bigger IIRC. Mentally imagine pushing two 1" pipes into a 2" pipe and you can see that there's lots of area left around the 1" pipes.

Right at the bottom where the size changed to 2", we put a hose bib for a drain. Now, when the water entered the 2" pipe it slowed way down, naturally due to the larger area in the pipe. That gave the sediment time, and gravity time, to pull the sediment to the bottom and to the hose bib. Every time we went to check the troughs (stock tanks) we'd open that hose bib and flush it clean.

Of course we'd have drains on the tank too because they were open and the wind would blow junk into them, and the cattle's mouths were often dirty. But we cut way down on the junk in the bottom of the tanks with those home made "filters."