Dangers For Female Travelers In Thailand And Other Parts Of Asia

[CaseyH]

Hi all,

I am a writer for Asian Correspondent and recently wrote a piece I'd like to share on the threat of sexual violence while traveling in Asia. I'm curious what folks on this forum have to say about the subject, and if anyone has additional insights or information on the topic.

Here is a link to the story:

http://asiancorrespondent.com/107011/bali-rape-highlights-ongoing-threat-to-female-travelers-in-asia/

Best,

Casey

[CharlieH]

Its very unfortunate and I would suspect that alot more goes on than is officially reported. It is the same the world over and not just SE Asia, any woman travelling alone should be constantly aware of her surroundings and take/ make adequate precautions as to where they choose to visit and whose company they choose to keep.A lot seem to leave common sense in the departure lounge and do little or no research into the places they are travelling to and have no back up plan if things go wrong.

The world is / has changed, its become smaller and with the increased social media etc things are now being more widely publicised so ignorance is no longer an excuse.........in my opinion.

[simple1]

Today I saw a young attractive Western women hitchhiking on her own on the main road to Bangkok from Pattaya. My first thought was how stupid she is, especially given the vast number of YaBa users in Thailand and the resultant criminality

Does that answer your question?

[BrianCR]

We cannot say asking for it because that would be wrong however, stupidly inviting it might apply

young attractive Western women hitchhiking on her own on the main road to Bangkok from Pattaya

young attractive Western women alone and drunk at 3am

etc etc

[asanee]

another repoteress confusing India-and the hype it mainly revoked in Australia/NZ and UK- and thinking that Asia is Asia and all the same?

This is a confronting other view: actually, for the countries you mention, MEN are far, far more prone to assaults as are ladies-even single young irresponsible ladies.

Open for facts? Call a reputed travel insurance firm and ask them about claims etc. they deal with from those countries-and how they divide up between men/women, young/old fold, etc.

[Phronesis]

Some one should do an article on female travellers and the dangers of ingesting DEET.

[Songhua]

Young women heading back to their accommodation alone late on any night of the week in, let's say, Patong or Kuta.

Is there some difference? Is there some assurance they wouldn't be assaulted (or worse) doing the same thing in London, Sydney or New York?

There's a reason many Thai women will never get into a taxi alone or walk dark streets - they're SENSIBLE, just as the Western women no doubt would be in their own home country.

You can't throw all caution to the wind simply because you're on holiday and then somehow blame Asia when the very same could have happened to you 100 metres from your white picket fence back home.

Rape and violence against foreigners in SE Asia are big news items but the same type of incidents in the West are so common that they rarely even get reported in the media anymore.

Should it happen? No.

Does it happen? Yes.

What is the answer? Common Sense ..... not some sort of movement or united stand or whatever's being suggested in the article (Why? Because the rapists won't be listening!).

[Phronesis]

Casey

Your article is facile because it focusses entirely upon effect and not cause.

A room mate of mine from college is now a senior executive with Carton United Breweries (CUB).

You might be suprised to note that the BULK of their annual marketing budget is spent on targeting 18 to 25 year old WOMEN. This has been the case now for a number of years.

Because the feminist narritive has entirely highjacked the social-political framework in Western countries. Young women now think that it is their right to get well pissed.

Unfortunately with inebriation comes risk. This risk is manifestly obvious with 18-25 men and is well reflected in the outrageous sums these lads have to pay for their car insurance.

Due largely to the commentry by feminist academics, at common law, an objective test can now be applied to the issue of consent when seeking to prosecute for rape.

This commentry followed an unsavioury case in the Australian High Court where a bloke was NOT convicted of rape because when the prosector asked him didn't he realise the girl was not consenting to having sex his reply was: "I was having such a great time, I didn't even think about it".

The facts of this case, in a nutshell, were as follows:

1. Girl walks out of nightclub with her boyfriend both of them are well pissed

2. A group of bikers are parked outside on their Harleys

3. The young girl goes up to the leader of the bikie pack and says "nice bike".

4. The bikie says did you want to go for a ride?

5. The girl says yes, waves her boyfriend good bye, and jumps on the back of the bike.

6. Bikie rides to some nearby bushland, (alledgedly rapes the girl) and then rides with her back to the club and drops her off with the boyfriend.

In the wake of this case, an objective test for the issue of consent was adopted by the courts.

So now...if a bloke charged with rape says "I didn't even think about it" an objective test may be applied by the jury to arrive at a finding of guilty on the basis that A REASONABLE MAN, IN THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES AS THE ACCUSED, WOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT IT.

But here's the rub...

Why do we never see an objective test applied to the actions of the victim.

For example, would a REASONABLE WOMAN, get pissed drunk on a lonely beach, late at night, wearing little more than a singlet and hot pants, in a country that she knows absolutely NOTHING about, and in many cases has visited for the very first time.

Good luck promoting your writing career. I wish you well.

However, a tip from me is to not align your career prospects too much with the feminist narrative, it is done for, along with the dysfunctional western social-political milieu it has created.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Phronesis

[SeaVisionBurma]

Flame removed, along with a reply to it.

[Baerboxer]

There are dangerous parts in all countries and cities. But many Westerners come to Asia and forget about safety. They think the police and attitudes will be the same and the fact is they are not. My wife and her friends at Uni were very careful who the went anywhere with. A lift home on your own after a function could lead to rape - and the police viewpoint would be "why do you go with him, what did you expect" and would pressure to drop charges. Ladies in Asia still keep a sense of security and are more careful (in general, imo). Western girls come over here, dress skimply, get pissed and/or drugged and then get into problems. I'm certainly not excusing the scum that abuse them, but, common sense and a little awareness would avert the problem.

India is very different to Thailand. I've seen massive amounts of "eve teasing", groping and touching up of ladies in crowds and malls, even in front of police and security guards - who do nothing except the occasional grin. I saw an Indian guy lick a Western ladies back in one hotel night club - and the Indians seemed to think it was her fault for wearing a low back dress. An Indian nurse flying to the UK asked if she could sit with me in the departure lounge so the gropers would leave her alone. 2 police in there were uninterested but the gropers didn't want an issue with a foreigner complaining. Incredible lack of respect for women from a nation that claims to be family orientated.

I've never seen this amount of disrespect for women in Thailand. But, generally speaking, in all the Asian countires I've been too, "nice" ladies have to take care. It's nothing like in the West where equallity rules. Going clubbing, out late, and how dressed is interpreted differently in Asia, It's reminiscent of some British attitudes from to 50-70s.

Good luck with your research and writing.

[rsokolowski]

Its very unfortunate and I would suspect that alot more goes on than is officially reported. It is the same the world over and not just SE Asia, any woman travelling alone should be constantly aware of her surroundings and take/ make adequate precautions as to where they choose to visit and whose company they choose to keep.A lot seem to leave common sense in the departure lounge and do little or no research into the places they are travelling to and have no back up plan if things go wrong.

The world is / has changed, its become smaller and with the increased social media etc things are now being more widely publicised so ignorance is no longer an excuse.........in my opinion.

Great advice for any traveler, women or men.

[GrantSmith]

There's a very good comment at the end of that article comparing rape cases in western countries to cases in less developed parts of the world...

Sums up the situation fairly well...

It would seem the incidents that occur in Asia get more airtime due largely to the effectiveness - or lack thereof - of the local constabularies as perceived by the western media outlets...

[Swiss1960]

Quote from the article: "Heather Thompson, a 27-year-old teacher who has lived in Chiang Mai for two years and has visited Bali, said she feels safe in both places but regularly exercises the same caution she would at home in London. She acknowledged the rapes that had occurred in both places, but pointed out that these are the same dangers that exist in major cities."

That pretty much sums it up... people on holiday mood seem to forget that their destination consists of more than the beatiful pictures they have seen in the catalogue...

And of course, what we read in "our" media is only the cases where foreigners get raped / robbed / stabbed / beaten up / killed by locals... the "internal crimes" of a country don't sell in the media...

[hilaryyy]

Wow. The pathetic response to this article is a perfect example of why most reasonable people steer clear of this sad, sad forum. This is such an obvious, sickening and cowardly display of the kind of textbook victim-blaming that creates rape culture. You are the perpetrators and you should all be ashamed.

How about instead of restricting the human rights of women to travel where they want and wear what they want, we focus on the fact that rape is wrong whatever the context? There's a novel idea.

Edited May 7, 2013 by hilaryyy

[simple1]

Wow. The pathetic response to this article is a perfect example of why most reasonable people steer clear of this sad, sad forum. This is such an obvious, sickening and cowardly display of the kind of textbook victim-blaming that creates rape culture. You are the perpetrators and you should all be ashamed.

How about instead of restricting the human rights of women to travel where they want and wear what they want, we focus on the fact that rape is wrong whatever the context? There's a novel idea.

Of course sexual assault is utterly wrong, do not see any posts that say otherwise. However, sorry to say the "human rights of women" have very little traction in many Asian countries. To travel in Asia on this premise is the utmost stupidity. More than likely it will take many years of cultural education and changes in attitude from local law enforcement & politicians to change matters.

BTW the UK Bangkok Embassy alone reported providing assistance in 29 cases of sexual assaults in 2011/2012 year - not many reported in the media, so be careful and aware.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Wow. The pathetic response to this article is a perfect example of why most reasonable people steer clear of this sad, sad forum. This is such an obvious, sickening and cowardly display of the kind of textbook victim-blaming that creates rape culture. You are the perpetrators and you should all be ashamed.

How about instead of restricting the human rights of women to travel where they want and wear what they want, we focus on the fact that rape is wrong whatever the context? There's a novel idea.

I am a man, I also take care about where I go, who I am with, who else is around, and don't get drunk in public.

All single people are at risk when out on their own, especially in places they don't know.

Nobody cares about your welfare more then you, yourself.

A little bit of personal responsibility goes a long way to keeping you safe..

[GrantSmith]

Wow. The pathetic response to this article is a perfect example of why most reasonable people steer clear of this sad, sad forum. This is such an obvious, sickening and cowardly display of the kind of textbook victim-blaming that creates rape culture. You are the perpetrators and you should all be ashamed.

How about instead of restricting the human rights of women to travel where they want and wear what they want, we focus on the fact that rape is wrong whatever the context? There's a novel idea.

Que?

As a famous former FEMALE Australian politician once (well probably more than once) said: "Please explain?"

[SeaVisionBurma]

Wow. The pathetic response to this article is a perfect example of why most reasonable people steer clear of this sad, sad forum. This is such an obvious, sickening and cowardly display of the kind of textbook victim-blaming that creates rape culture. You are the perpetrators and you should all be ashamed.

How about instead of restricting the human rights of women to travel where they want and wear what they want, we focus on the fact that rape is wrong whatever the context? There's a novel idea.

You might want to tone it down with these emotional generalisations against all of us on 'this sad, sad forum'

I certainly don't appreciate being accused of the things you just posted - and the fact that you went back and edited them out shows you knew them to be completely over the top.

I do not condone violence against women - in fact I abhor it. I abhor it in the same way I do not condone violence against any person.

I have never been a perpetrator of violence and I certainly should not feel ashamed for that.

The OP asked for opinions on her article, and various members have responded with their own thoughts.

If you feel anything contravenes forum regulations - then make a report, and it will be acted upon according to its merits.

For now - kindly do not lump all of us together in a box.

[Swiss1960]

Wow. The pathetic response to this article is a perfect example of why most reasonable people steer clear of this sad, sad forum. This is such an obvious, sickening and cowardly display of the kind of textbook victim-blaming that creates rape culture. You are the perpetrators and you should all be ashamed.

How about instead of restricting the human rights of women to travel where they want and wear what they want, we focus on the fact that rape is wrong whatever the context? There's a novel idea.

Nobody said anything even close to what you write... The only thing that was said over and over is: People who travel in foreign countries should be aware of the risks in those countries, as they are aware of the risks back home.

Crimes are never to be excused, whether against women or men. Victims of crimes are never guilty of "asking for" the crime, but often, they lack to follow the basic rules for their own safety.

[rakman]

My observation is this:

While focusing on only the bad things that has happened principally to women in several countries, what is the perspective? How many women (and couples) have traveled the world, or at least the same places as the article highlights, where other experiences have been positive?

What's the ratio? I'm sure there are many cases in the victim's home country that can be also written about with similar ratios. Just because they are traveling in exotic lands, it doesn't make crime go away. How about the local women in the same areas? Why just the tourists that are focused on?

Yes, it's not right that crime occurs, but the article makes it seem that only bad things happen to tourists in places one ideally wouldn't expect, and that is part of the problem. If you think you're in paradise and put away ones awareness, you've taken the first step to potentially have problems.

[Postmaster]

Now then boys, lets play nicely.

[charliemike11]

OK so 7 years ago I was in Hua Hin visiting my brother, I a 36yr old lady he a 37yr old we were out at the usual fun bars and at about 1am decided to return to our separate villas on our separate bikes he agreed to see me home safely ........... at a certain point he decided I could continue the rest of the way alone Not impressed and quite unsure I continued my journey and noticed a bike in my rear view mirror gaining quickly....... I continued and told myself be strong everything is ok......it wasnt the biker an asian male about 25 ish came along side me and started shouting and pointing for me to pull over and saying I f%%k you....I love you....reading myself for action I continued and desperately scanned the strrets for open shops etc Nothing ........he got closer and grabbed my handle bars we swayed violently and in fear of a crash I shouted ok ok and slowed to a stop fearing for my life he seemed drunk and so I knew I had a slim chance of survival...... He dropped his bike to the floor and tried to kiss my face we struggled but I fought him off and so mistakenly he mounted my bike pushing me to the rear seat I simply stepped off the bike.... he grabbed my arm and tred to pull me closer but I twisted his wrist and arm and moved him to a postision facing the floor and punched him in the side of the head I then jumped back on my bike and decided quickly it was not wise to return to my empty apartment alone I turned and drove as fast as I could to my brothers apartment 5 mins away full throttle as I was driving shaking from head to toe the asian in my rear view mirror seamed to be far behind and give up... I realised I had gotten a front wheel puncture but did not slow at alll!!! Getting to my bro's I could see no sign of the attacker a very very lucky escape and glad that my father insisted on martial arts as a hobbie throughout my chilhood....I have forgiven my brother for abandoning me that night but I will never forget it EVER!

[charliemike11]

for the record I have revisited Thailand every year since then having considered myself very lucky and would never travel alone in the dark on seclueded streets ever again even if it does seem like a short trip up the road!

Happy to be alive

Happy to Visit Thailand

Happy to be security conscious