Quickest Safe Time To Build On Rice Land That Has Been Filled?

[TravelerEastWest]

Quickest safe time to build on rice land that has been filled?

My wife just bought some rice paddy which will be harvested in 2 weeks.

If we fill it a meter high (road level) and flatten it and fill again.

Can we start building right away using modern construction with a good team?

[David48]

Tradition wisdom say ... NO

Most times a 'Rainy Season' should be waited to allow to ground to settle.

And presuming that the 'Rice Land' has no solid rock 2 metres down ... it all comes down to the foundations.

There is a method where you have what is described as a 'Floating Slab' or here which requires minimal foundations ... but it's not a Tradition Issan Building Method to my knowledge.

Plus the Rainy Season may soon upon you and that makes it not ideal to build.

I be curious to read others thoughts on this ...

.

.

[MYKTHEMIN]

I would give it at least 1 rainy season and then another year to truly settle, you can pile it and build it straight away but at quite a cost and the surrounding land will still settle and cause all kinds of problems with the service pipes. As a good old thai saying goes, UP TO YOU!

[kwonitoy]

I filled my lot in Jan/Feb of 2006.

Construction on the house foundations started in April of the same year, and the house was completed in Sept. the foundations of my house and other typical Thai builds have the footing dug deeper than the fill into the original soil.

The house was built out of the small little red brick and there is no cracking or settleing in the last 7 years.

Their was no noticeable setteling of the rest of the fill in the lot over time either, I never had to bring in any more dirt.

No problems with buried power or water lines

As long as your footing are deep and solid don't worry about the wait for one rainy season theory

If your putting a slab on top of the filled in land then yes it should settle

In the one picture you can see the builder about waist height to the fill and he's standing on a concrete block that extends another 1 meter under him, there's enough concrete under the house to build a missle silo

Edited May 7, 2013 by kwonitoy

[cheeryble]

The point being that deep concrete footings are heavy and will compress what's underneath somewhat......and will usually do the job.

The proper way to get a move on is to get friction pilings stamped in with a rig. Don't know the costs but would be interested to hear.

[SantiSuk]

We built on the land as it preexisted (orchard - with not much tilth on top of clay) with normal footings, but the single storey house was built with a 2 meter concrete skirt before you get to the floor level. Then we filled about a metre so that the house flooring is still one meter off the ground. Have had no problems with services in the in-fill in 4 years.

You need a decent regional commercial and domestic builder to do stuff like this and piling. Not one for the off-season village builders to design and manage!

[TravelerEastWest]

Great replies - thank you very much.

So far what I read is that if you invest in lots of concrete and pilings and have a good modern builder who knows what he is doing we can go forwrad without a long wait.

All comments are appreciated!

[krisb]

Ok if they are a good team as you say then they would know best. If your land is in issan, there is a layer of bedrock about 2 metres down, that's what you want the footings on.

[krisb]

Check www.coolthaihouse.com.

[krisb]

The point being that deep concrete footings are heavy and will compress what's underneath somewhat......and will usually do the job.

The proper way to get a move on is to get friction pilings stamped in with a rig. Don't know the costs but would be interested to hear.

Not so in Issan.

[TravelerEastWest]

Ok if they are a good team as you say then they would know best. If your land is in issan, there is a layer of bedrock about 2 metres down, that's what you want the footings on.

The land is in Chiang Mai.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Why don't you just ram concrete piles 10m (30feet) deep and conect them and build on that. Only about 120k / 150,000Baht more cost and you will have decent foundations.

Or else you will have an cracked up crap house.

[TravelerEastWest]

Why don't you just ram concrete piles 10m (30feet) deep and conect them and build on that. Only about 120k / 150,000Baht more cost and you will have decent foundations.

Or else you will have an cracked up crap house.

Interesting.

The building will be abour 7 by 30 meters - very, very simple build. all concrete, tiles and 3 bathrooms.

I am thinking maybe 12 power pilings - do you have a rough idea of the cost for the pilings?

Edited May 12, 2013 by TravelerEastWest

[David48]

To the OP ... maybe sometime for reflection in building your home.

Remember the old carpenters adage ...

Measure twice ... cut once.

Typical Thai homes work on a 4m X 4m grid, custom prevails that don't have the gate opposite the entry door, you don't have an external door opposite the entry ... otherwise your money will just flow out of the house.

Can not have just 4 posts in the building ... otherwise it will be the same as a spirit's house.

The list goes on ...

Once you start designing homes outside the knowledge and skills base of the local artisans ... costs will escalate or your directions ignored and they will build it the way they think it should be done.

Enjoy ...

.

[cheeryble]

That's a very long house! .....for a particular reason?

Unless you want very big beams front to back you will need 3 piles that way.

If you're going to have 3 piles front to back you may as well make the 7 metres into 8 and have 4m centres

[TravelerEastWest]

That's a very long house! .....for a particular reason?

Unless you want very big beams front to back you will need 3 piles that way.

If you're going to have 3 piles front to back you may as well make the 7 metres into 8 and have 4m centres

Actually it is not intended to be a home it will be a workshop with mostly open space.

What do you mean by 4m centres? A column in the middle? We don't want that - if that is what you mean.

[TravelerEastWest]

Once you start designing homes outside the knowledge and skills base of the local artisans ... costs will escalate or your directions ignored and they will build it the way they think it should be done.

Enjoy ...

Actually the building will be very simple almost empty inside with no wood (tile or polished concrete floors) and very few rooms.

We are looking now for a modern builder who knows what they are doing, and even more importantly a good civil engineer to keep the project going smoothly. Actually I would like to find the engineer first.

.

[David48]

.

Once
you start designing homes outside the knowledge and skills base of the local artisans ... costs will escalate or your directions ignored and they will build it the way they think it should be done.

Enjoy ...

.

Actually the building will be very simple almost empty inside with no wood (tile or polished concrete floors) and very few rooms.

We are looking now for a modern builder who knows what they are doing, and even more importantly a good civil engineer to keep the project going smoothly. Actually I would like to find the engineer first.

.

Mate ... I hope you don't mind ... I redid the above to reflect what was actually said. The new quote function is a real PITA.

When it comes time to build and during the build, start a new thread and let us follow your construction.

We are open to new ideas and I'm sure will learn something from the build and enjoy watching it come together for you.

Cheers

David48

[cheeryble]

That's a very long house! .....for a particular reason?

Unless you want very big beams front to back you will need 3 piles that way.

If you're going to have 3 piles front to back you may as well make the 7 metres into 8 and have 4m centres

Actually it is not intended to be a home it will be a workshop with mostly open space.

What do you mean by 4m centres? A column in the middle? We don't want that - if that is what you mean.

Unless you are OK with pretty massive horizontals from front to back (maybe you are.....they will be the same size as some bigger commercial buildings) you will want a central support, perhaps only below floor level. If you don't want centre columns acting as support for the roof structure perhaps you can arrange for the roof design to be stronger and self supporting needing only to sit on the front and back edges even at 7 metres.

No doubt corrugated "asbestos" tiles would be much lighter.

Edited May 13, 2013 by cheeryble

[TravelerEastWest]

Unless you are OK with pretty massive horizontals from front to back (maybe you are.....they will be the same size as some bigger commercial buildings) you will want a central support, perhaps only below floor level. If you don't want centre columns acting as support for the roof structure perhaps you can arrange for the roof design to be stronger and self supporting needing only to sit on the front and back edges even at 7 metres.

No doubt corrugated "asbestos" tiles would be much lighter.

A center support in the work space won't work well for us so we will need to consider other options - thank you for your suggestions

[TravelerEastWest]

"Mate ... I hope you don't mind ... I redid the above to reflect what was actually said. The new quote function is a real PITA.

When it comes time to build and during the build, start a new thread and let us follow your construction.

We are open to new ideas and I'm sure will learn something from the build and enjoy watching it come together for you.

Cheers David48"

Thank you for your help.

I just may start a new thread for the actual build - I read one for a Bangkok home awhile back that was amazing in detail and was very helpful.

I am not sure about my having new ideas - more likely I will be a good editor of building techniques - I hope.

Actually I am good at knowing what I don't know which in this case is almost everything - smiling.

So far the land shopping and purchase has gone smoothly.

Din Daeng is quite expensive so I am looking, looking and looking some more for better prices - filling will be the next step and my wife will want to start planting hedges around the perimeter.

I had a really crazy idea to make the top 50cm (1 meter will be filled) home made compost. But it is probably not practical.

[cheeryble]

Din Daeng is quite expensive so I am looking, looking and looking some more for better prices - filling will be the next step and my wife will want to start planting hedges around the perimeter.

Why don't you excavate a big pond? You will get very cheap din dang and a bonus pond.

I had a really crazy idea to make the top 50cm (1 meter will be filled) home made compost. But it is probably not practical.

I am told din dang grows things much better than folk think if they can just take hold.

ps where are you?

[krisb]

I wanted to remove columns in our house to make my lounge room which is 16x8metres column free. Problem was when I wasn't there my wife had monks bless the house and they buried some gold leaf stuff under 1 of the columns. Because of that I'm told not allowed to remove them.

[bbradsby]

OP Quote:

"Quickest safe time to build on rice land that has been filled?"

Assuming yr structural engineer/architect (u have one, right?) advises driven piles for your particular site, pound your piles after a few good rains. they'll then set the final height of the pile caps & floor beams. further site subsidence will not affect your house build if the piles are long enough and driven to proper depth. you need a structural engineer to establish this data. If no piles are used due to substrata, footings must be well into undisturbed, solid, native soil. SO, again, fill subsidence is of no relevance to the footings as long as you move forward with your build in a typical professional pace.

At the next dry season, fill your site to rough grade height desired, taking into account topsoil (100mm min.) slope to drain water away from house (important), and to coordinate with sitework paving, etc.

"If we fill it a meter high (road level) and flatten it and fill again... Can we start building right away...?"

See answer, above.

"...using modern construction..."

Do try not to throw curveballs at your builder. it'll cost you in more ways than one. With a Thai engineer, and a clear set of THAI LANGUAGE floor plan, ceiling/lighting plan, building sections & elevations, you'll get typical Thai construction means & methods designed-in. This is what you want. If you demand freespans larger than the typical 4m Thai house grid, use steel top of wall beams and do not use clay or concrete tile roof. Again, follow yr architect's/engineer's advice, or bring aspirin & money.

"...with a good team?"

Right, best of luck with that!

[bbradsby]

I wanted to remove columns in our house to make my lounge room which is 16x8metres column free. Problem was when I wasn't there my wife had monks bless the house and they buried some gold leaf stuff under 1 of the columns. Because of that I'm told not allowed to remove them.

Good one. I had a builder place a rebar cage for a column well out of grid alignment after the magic was made over that pile cap... and of course we were told we couldn't move it LOL! Did we, however...? I'm not telling.

[krisb]

I wanted to remove columns in our house to make my lounge room which is 16x8metres column free. Problem was when I wasn't there my wife had monks bless the house and they buried some gold leaf stuff under 1 of the columns. Because of that I'm told not allowed to remove them.

 Good one. I had a builder place a rebar cage for a column well out of grid alignment after the magic was made over that pile cap... and of course we were told we couldn't move it  LOL!  Did we, however...? I'm not telling.

i wanted to remove em. The wife however...

Sent from my LG-E612 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bbradsby]

Tradition wisdom say ... NO

Most times a 'Rainy Season' should be waited to allow to ground to settle.

And presuming that the 'Rice Land' has no solid rock 2 metres down ... it all comes down to the foundations.

There is a method where you have what is described as a 'Floating Slab' or here which requires minimal foundations ... but it's not a Tradition Issan Building Method to my knowledge.

Plus the Rainy Season may soon upon you and that makes it not ideal to build.

I be curious to read others thoughts on this ...

.

.

rainy season is not fun, but rough concrete work can be done in a light rain, and often there are breaks in the rains for concrete to set up. torrential downpours are a no-no, as it washes out the cement & sand from the concrete.

floating slabs are not something id advise in LoS, due to very heavy construction and total mush for substrata quite often. add variability of building geometry from house to house, and your house could break up and sink like a ship on a reef... ok, slight exaggeration to make tha point: try to stay true to Thai means & methods, or have a great design team onboard.

[bbradsby]

I wanted to remove columns in our house to make my lounge room which is 16x8metres column free. Problem was when I wasn't there my wife had monks bless the house and they buried some gold leaf stuff under 1 of the columns. Because of that I'm told not allowed to remove them.

Good one. I had a builder place a rebar cage for a column well out of grid alignment after the magic was made over that pile cap... and of course we were told we couldn't move it LOL! Did we, however...? I'm not telling.

i wanted to remove em. The wife however...

Sent from my LG-E612 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

ya, my client's Thai wife said no move. I, however...

Edited May 15, 2013 by bbradsby

[Chao Lao Beach]

I built a house to as close as I could to western standards, I could have done it for less than half the cost if the builder did it the normal Thai way. Pls take notice of bbradsy if you want to save a sh!t load of problems is my only advice.

[apetley]

Check www.coolthaihouse.com.

http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1070

Story of my own housebuild on paddy.

Left our fill settle for a year before building.

Our footings were over two metres deep and went down through the fill into the old paddy.

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