Thai Woman Claims American Man Sexually Exploited Her, Seeks Justice From U S Embassy

[Jingthing]

I've heard it all now.

...

Perhaps you don't get out much?

haha maybe and happy to debate what feminism is and is not another time (which, actually, is a very interesting debate). Back OT

I'm not saying this man didn't act the cad or that most men aren't dogs. But an adult woman has to take responsibility for her free will decisions and also for the RISKS that she takes in life, just like a man. Would you disagree? You can't go suing everyone because life is unfair or you were tricked by someone. Was there a contract? I think not. Was there a child produced? I think not based on the facts released. It would be different if there was.

Actually I think feminism is VERY relevant to this story. On the face of it, such a complaint is definitely not feminist. Even more so because "Gay Nathee" is involved. If people assume all Thai gays or foreign gays agree with most of the odd things "Gay Nathee" has done over the years, they would be quite wrong. His activist record is quite eccentric and yes quite involved in a strange (to me incoherent) brew of sexual and nationalistic/prudish morality politics. Personally, I think Thai gays could do MUCH BETTER, but that's their problem if they have failed to.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[binjalin]

Interesting :

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/damages-for-breach-of-promise-to-marry.html

That is interesting. Sources tell me it is this aspect - the alleged 'duping' which is at the crux of it.

If this guy has not 'done wrong' he can sue her for defamation and if she is lying he should do so!!! he certainly has enough evidence - this has a way to run

In the west anyway a promise is a unilateral contract and not enforceable.

If the girl gave him 'consideration' such as money or a item of measurable value then it could be considered an enforceable bilateral contract.

Perhaps intimate activity is being counted as 'consideration'

Does anyone know when this event took place? Are we talking recently?

i suspect she's just pi**ed at, according to her, being 'set-up'

my view is most dating sites, clubs, bars are all 'fair game' but adverts, 'secretaries', marriage promises? illegal? maybe not ethical?

I'll let you decide for yourselves but for me it's 'out of bounds' primarily because people (talking generally) get really hurt if their expectations of finding a relationship are dashed upon the rocks of deception and purposeful lies

[binjalin]

I've heard it all now.

...

Perhaps you don't get out much?

haha maybe and happy to debate what feminism is and is not another time (which, actually, is a very interesting debate). Back OT

I'm not saying this man didn't act the cad or that most men aren't dogs. But an adult woman has to take responsibility for her free will decisions and also for the RISKS that she takes in life, just like a man. Would you disagree? You can't go suing everyone because life is unfair or you were tricked by someone. Was there a contract? I think not.

yes you are 100% right 'personal responsibility' is foremost but would that apply to alleged set-ups? including props such as 'secretaries'? adverts for marriage? or is that 'a deception too far'? ethical contract?

[Jingthing]

yes you are 100% right 'personal responsibility' is foremost but would that apply to alleged set-ups? including props such as 'secretaries'? adverts for marriage? or is that 'a deception too far'? ethical contract?

If true, he sounds like an exceptional cad and there is no question about that behavior being unethical. Funny, I encounter unethical behavior in Thailand almost every day and haven't filed a lawsuit as yet. Another question, do you think Gay Nathee would be involved if the cad wasn't a foreigner?

Edited May 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[binjalin]

yes you are 100% right 'personal responsibility' is foremost but would that apply to alleged set-ups? including props such as 'secretaries'? adverts for marriage? or is that 'a deception too far'? ethical contract?

If true, he sounds like an exceptional cad and there is no question about that behavior being unethical. Funny, I encounter unethical behavior in Thailand almost every day and haven't filed a lawsuit as yet. Another question, do you think Gay Nathee would be involved if the cad wasn't a foreigner?

well I think you're right and I have been playing the Devil's advocate a bit today to balance out the early (now almost disappeared) 'farang-defence wail' has she filed a law suit? I really don't know I thought she was just kicking up a storm? and I have no idea why Gay Nathee is involved and I think his other comments about 'other' matters are mostly the wanderings of an unfocused mind bent on self-admiration

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

...

yes you are 100% right 'personal responsibility' is foremost but would that apply to alleged set-ups? including props such as 'secretaries'? adverts for marriage? or is that 'a deception too far'? ethical contract?

That's why I would like to know the timeline of this event.

For example lets say it was some months ago and he is now currently engaged to be married or is he still running thru fresh prospects?

A single event does not seem so significant but what if the legal team could organize a list set-up women willing to testify against him?

A class action type complaint.

and how about this Thai secretary? Talk about an ethical sell out to not warn these gullible girls of their impending loss of virtue. Thai on Thai exploitation at its finest.

Edited May 15, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[BB1955]

Gimmie a break this is garbage .................

[Markaew]

I want to add that I consider myself a feminist. You do not need a vagina to be a feminist. Being a feminist includes thinking adult women are strong and can think and make adult decisions for themselves. Those decisions include having consensual sex and taking responsibility for the trust decisions they make regarding their sex partners. Just like men. Accepting the consequences of these adult decisions even the STUPID ones. Now if we were talking about some kind of rape scenario, this would be different, but there was no mention of that. It would also be different if an adult woman had some kind of severe mental impairment. Again not mentioned in this case.

Frankly, I think consensual sex is over rated. I believe demanding sex is much better!!

[whybother]

i suspect she's just pi**ed at, according to her, being 'set-up'

my view is most dating sites, clubs, bars are all 'fair game' but adverts, 'secretaries', marriage promises? illegal? maybe not ethical?

I'll let you decide for yourselves but for me it's 'out of bounds' primarily because people (talking generally) get really hurt if their expectations of finding a relationship are dashed upon the rocks of deception and purposeful lies

Marriage promises on the first date! Is believing it naive or stupid?

[BuffaloRescue]

Sounds more like he rejected her in some way or perhaps he did lie or cheat her. In retaliation she has made this complaint not with hope of winning any damages but to ruin his reputation. As the owner of a school of course this kind of complaint going live in the news or all over Thaivisa would not be good for him at all! Quite likely he will read this thread at some point.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned

Edited May 15, 2013 by BuffaloRescue

[MAJIC]

When I read the title while flitting through the title Postings,I thought it said "Claims American man sexually Excited her" or was it the prospects of money,that caused the excitement ? exploitation.

[Joe Mamma]

He learned all he knew from the bar girls of iron heart town!

[katana]

Who is that in the photo?

If it's the woman, you'd think that she would be happy that any man would be willing to bed her.

If it's the man, is he a half Thai/American?

The man in the photo is Nathee Teerarojjanapongs.

I saw a picture of the lady, Thidarat Chaisiri, in the Thai Daily News a couple of days ago.

However the link to the story seems to be blocked in non-Thai websites.

[Jingthing]

Excuse me.

I never defended the behavior of the man as described in the charges. I never suggested it was admirable. I never suggested the woman "deserved" anything. Talk about wild exaggeration.

I did suggest the woman is well into ADULTHOOD and should be expected to take the promises of adult men with some REALISM. If a man is advertising looking for marriage, that doesn't imply a contract to marry any PARTICULAR woman he meets and beds.

Did he POSSIBLY use this ad to fool one woman, many woman into his bed with lies and trickery with no actual intention to marry any woman? Perhaps he did, perhaps he didn't. If he did, that is certainly despicable behavior. But illegal? Really?

A verbal promise is a verbal promise. To be taken with skepticism. If it turns out a verbal promise of marriage has power in Thai law, that might be another matter LEGALLY. I don't know. Do you know?

Anger at being scorned, played, etc. is of course understandable.

The behavior of the American man regarding condo issues sounds VERY unpleasant but really has NOTHING to do with this case. Also we are not getting the accused man's side of the story. So judging this is also unfair and again UNRELATED.

The wider issue of "exploitation" in this case really sounds hyped up politically and questionably being made into a grander foreigner demonization issue for Thais. It sounds like some people are trying to connect this kind of case to human trafficking, "insulting" Thailand's honor as a country with lots of prostitution, as if it isn't a country with lots of prostitution, which uh oh, it happens to be such a country. Again, no connection REALLY to this one man accused of bad behavior towards one woman. A woman as far as any report I've heard, nobody is saying is a prostitute or was being forced into human trafficking.

Does this really make sense to anyone? A woman has a very bad dating/personal ad experience with a man and tries to make it into an international incident?

Edited May 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[TheWalkingMan]

She gave up the goods on the first night and is complaining because the guy didn't marry her? lol. Silly cow.

[BookMan]

.E.

.

Does this really make sense to anyone? A woman has a very bad dating/personal ad experience with a man and tries to make it into an international incident?

Seems to be for publicity or for financial reward.

It could also be to besmirch the man's name? Tilac2 claims there is a nasty law dispute going on.

Could be anything, without being close to the event to know

[binjalin]

i suspect she's just pi**ed at, according to her, being 'set-up'

my view is most dating sites, clubs, bars are all 'fair game' but adverts, 'secretaries', marriage promises? illegal? maybe not ethical?

I'll let you decide for yourselves but for me it's 'out of bounds' primarily because people (talking generally) get really hurt if their expectations of finding a relationship are dashed upon the rocks of deception and purposeful lies

Marriage promises on the first date! Is believing it naive or stupid?

if this is what happened 'stupid' and 'naive' would be right (but it wasn't 'first date' it was specifically advertised as such) 'if' the advert and use of a 'secretary' was used on numerous occasions as a 'ruse' (sources close to the story say 'yes') then it is exploitative and wrong but illegal? probably not

Edited May 16, 2013 by binjalin

[binjalin]

Excuse me.

I never defended the behavior of the man as described in the charges. I never suggested it was admirable. I never suggested the woman "deserved" anything. Talk about wild exaggeration.

I did suggest the woman is well into ADULTHOOD and should be expected to take the promises of adult men with some REALISM. If a man is advertising looking for marriage, that doesn't imply a contract to marry any PARTICULAR woman he meets and beds.

Did he POSSIBLY use this ad to fool one woman, many woman into his bed with lies and trickery with no actual intention to marry any woman? Perhaps he did, perhaps he didn't. If he did, that is certainly despicable behavior. But illegal? Really?

A verbal promise is a verbal promise. To be taken with skepticism. If it turns out a verbal promise of marriage has power in Thai law, that might be another matter LEGALLY. I don't know. Do you know?

Anger at being scorned, played, etc. is of course understandable.

The behavior of the American man regarding condo issues sounds VERY unpleasant but really has NOTHING to do with this case. Also we are not getting the accused man's side of the story. So judging this is also unfair and again UNRELATED.

The wider issue of "exploitation" in this case really sounds hyped up politically and questionably being made into a grander foreigner demonization issue for Thais. It sounds like some people are trying to connect this kind of case to human trafficking, "insulting" Thailand's honor as a country with lots of prostitution, as if it isn't a country with lots of prostitution, which uh oh, it happens to be such a country. Again, no connection REALLY to this one man accused of bad behavior towards one woman. A woman as far as any report I've heard, nobody is saying is a prostitute or was being forced into human trafficking.

Does this really make sense to anyone? A woman has a very bad dating/personal ad experience with a man and tries to make it into an international incident?

I would have to agree that the two are unrelated and probably co-incidence but 'does it make sense'? yes it does imagine this (and I cannot say if this is true or false just hypothetical)

a woman in middle age answers a Thai ad in a newspaper (for marriage) goes along and meets a 'respectable' guy and his Thai 'secretary' and naively goes to bed with him after wine etc. later finding out that this guy has done this before to younger woman and is likely to do it again and his 'secretary' is really not a 'secretary' at all and it's all a set-up. She decides to tackle this to highlight it so other girls do not fall into the same trap. Is she to be lynched as a crazed, money grabbing Thai girl or praised for 'standing up'?

I don't know but the person I know knows the girl and she does not need his money and this is her version. If she is lying I will be first in the queue to say how despicable she is so let this guy SUE her for defamation. If she is not lying stop saying she's a money-grabbing publicity seeker - neither you nor I were there nor do we know, directly, the parties involved but what we do know is this is on pissed off woman. No smoke?

[binjalin]

When I read the title while flitting through the title Postings,I thought it said "Claims American man sexually Excited her" or was it the prospects of money,that caused the excitement ? exploitation.

in 99 out of 100 I would be as cynical as you about 'money' and Thai girls but I think this is about deception with intent to deceive (and used more than one time aided and abetted by a thai 'secretary') and money, as far as I can tell, is not in the equation but we will see

this guy has tons of evidence of defamation by this woman where is he? him suing or not suing will be the litmus test

get the popcorn out!

Edited May 16, 2013 by binjalin

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

What does anybody know about this activist frontman guy? Good reputation or Al Sharpton type?

Any explanations of how he came to champion this complaint? Does he do this all the time?

Seems very unusual media tactics. Why did he get involved against this foreigner and not the many many other womanizing and deep pocketed expats?

We do know the accused is involved in a number of pending lawsuits. Could this be a smoke screen for a larger and more lucrative legal battle?

It sounds like the guy largely attracted these conflicts by his conduct. My question is what conflicts are really behind these allegations.

Also we need a timeline. When did these events occur and what kind of corroboration of actions are being offered?

[Jingthing]

If she is not lying stop saying she's a money-grabbing publicity seeker - neither you nor I were there nor do we know, directly, the parties involved but what we do know is this is on pissed off woman. No smoke?

Excuse me again.

I never said she the accuser is a money-grabbing publicity seeker. The key is money. I made no such observation about her possible money motivations at all. OTHERS mentioned money. I did not, but you were replying to MY post so please be more careful about your statements here. Thank you.

On the publicity thing there is no need to speculate. She already got the publicity. So by fact it is beyond the seeking phase of it.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Any explanations of how he came to champion this complaint? Does he do this all the time?

Google him. Quite a controversial figure.

There are hints already in this thread on the "logic" of his possible political motivation in getting involved. Don't be fooled by the gay connection. His political activism is about much more than that.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[binjalin]

If she is not lying stop saying she's a money-grabbing publicity seeker - neither you nor I were there nor do we know, directly, the parties involved but what we do know is this is on pissed off woman. No smoke?

Excuse me again.

I never said she the accuser is a money-grabbing publicity seeker. The key is money. I made no such observation about her possible money motivations at all. OTHERS mentioned money. I did not, but you were replying to MY post so please be more careful about your statements here. Thank you.

On the publicity thing there is no need to speculate. She already got the publicity. So by fact it is beyond the seeking phase of it.

I was speaking generally

"Yeah she heard the American government over at the embassy has deep pockets."

is this not you?

Edited May 16, 2013 by binjalin

[Jingthing]

If she is not lying stop saying she's a money-grabbing publicity seeker - neither you nor I were there nor do we know, directly, the parties involved but what we do know is this is on pissed off woman. No smoke?

Excuse me again.

I never said she the accuser is a money-grabbing publicity seeker. The key is money. I made no such observation about her possible money motivations at all. OTHERS mentioned money. I did not, but you were replying to MY post so please be more careful about your statements here. Thank you.

On the publicity thing there is no need to speculate. She already got the publicity. So by fact it is beyond the seeking phase of it.

I was speaking generally

"Yeah she heard the American government over at the embassy has deep pockets."

is this not you?

Busted. It was me and I had forgotten that post as it was much earlier. In that post, I was clearly joking around at that point in regards to the embassy and the joke was more about how the American government is BROKE. I was mocking that a Thai would take such a matter to the embassy. It's a Thai law matter if it's anything. To try to make it an international incident is absurd. In truth I don't think the embassy angle is about money, regardless of that perhaps unwise joke. My theory on that is it is probably related to Mr. Nathee's unusual politics (regarding protecting the "morality" of Thailand, and a focus on foreigner influences being the baddies about that).

Edited May 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[binjalin]

If she is not lying stop saying she's a money-grabbing publicity seeker - neither you nor I were there nor do we know, directly, the parties involved but what we do know is this is on pissed off woman. No smoke?

Excuse me again.

I never said she the accuser is a money-grabbing publicity seeker. The key is money. I made no such observation about her possible money motivations at all. OTHERS mentioned money. I did not, but you were replying to MY post so please be more careful about your statements here. Thank you.

On the publicity thing there is no need to speculate. She already got the publicity. So by fact it is beyond the seeking phase of it.

I was speaking generally

"Yeah she heard the American government over at the embassy has deep pockets."

is this not you?

Busted. It was me. I was joking around at that point in regards to the embassy and the joke was more about how the American government is BROKE more than anything. I was mocking that a Thai would take such a matter to the embassy. It's a Thai law matter if it's anything. To try to make it an international incident is absurd.

anyway i admitted I was talking generally as you have resisted, mostly, this line of deprecation at least - enough from me - this thread is going nowhere and lots of posts have been deleted - let the cards fall where they may and hopefully truth come out eventually

Edited May 16, 2013 by binjalin

[Pops]

The date, arranged by Dean’s Thai private secretary, started with a dinner and a tour at Dean’s apartment. It was there that Dean tricked Thidarat into having sex with him by promising to marry her.

So she consented to having sex with him, with compensation in the form of marriage, in mind.

Isn't that prostitution, which is illegal in Thailand, right ?

Furthermore, like your mama said: No sex before marriage !!

[Jingthing]

Was she a virgin before? (At 38?) I realize that many cultures value that kind of thing.

[inapeartree]

Was she a virgin before? (At 38?) I realize that many cultures value that kind of thing.

Doubt she'd refrain from sex for 2? years and then touch her toes on a first date

[bonobo]

Regardless if the man was a cad, someone who simply changed his mind, or whatever, what bothers me about this is that by trying to get some sort of action, the complainant is in essence making sex into a payment. If you look at her logic, then she was "damaged" because she had sex when no marriage was forthcoming. Following that logic, if she had married him, all would be fine, but as he backed off marriage, she "paid" for that marriage with sex, hence his change of heart is actionable.

Sex is sex, and consenting sex is not actionable. If she chose to "celebrate" her impending nuptials with sex with him, then I would imagine that she received some pleasure in the act, or at least she went into it willingly.

If she is contending that she would not have had sex without the promise of marriage, then I contend that the sex was payment for future consideration, and I hate to think of sex used like that.

[Jingthing]

In many traditional cultures throughout history it is a big taboo for women to ENJOY sex. Instead it is supposed to be a social obligation to the dominant men. The virginity obsession, how much is it about men's insecurity about being compared to other men and falling short? Again, there is feminist politics in this news story. It is obviously a global feminist advancement for women to openly enjoy sex for sex, just like men. Of course sex can be much more than fun and women are more vulnerable in casual sex relationships due to potential pregnancies. There are some human nature issues with women seeking male protectors to invest the many years needed to raise human children especially in more traditional cultures where women have many fewer economic opportunities than men. It gets weirder and weirder when probably the most famous Thai gay rights activist in history is at the same time a leading advocate for old fashioned retro moralism.

Anyway, no reports there was a pregnancy involved in this case or that there were any virgins on the bed.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Jingthing