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Thailand Withers As Myanmar Rises: Opinion


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Getting so tired of all the haters here! You are here by choice and of your free will, you are the holder of a passport, so why not just move quietly to the new paradise ? Your new friend Thein Sein will welcome you with open arms. Ironic, that he has become the flavour of the month, after together with his co-generals having raped his country for half a century.

We are all looking forward to reports of your life in paradise. Oh, I forgot, there is almost no internetcoverage and a simcard is 6000 baht! whistling.gif

Bit brutal but quite good.

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Getting so tired of all the haters here! You are here by choice and of your free will, you are the holder of a passport, so why not just move quietly to the new paradise ? Your new friend Thein Sein will welcome you with open arms. Ironic, that he has become the flavour of the month, after together with his co-generals having raped his country for half a century.

We are all looking forward to reports of your life in paradise. Oh, I forgot, there is almost no internetcoverage and a simcard is 6000 baht! whistling.gif

Bit brutal but quite good.

So, in the event of a coup, or other enforced change of government in Thailand, you will either be moving out, or keeping quiet about it? After all, given your agreement with the above "shut up or leave" comment, anything else would be hypocritical.
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.....problem is...and always will be....certain people have their hands....and hopes of filling their pockets...through the Dawei location....

....fortunately, many people from other countries, with real business sense...and a bit more dignity, realize this...

(.....unfortunately, most Thais are oblivious to this....thus, billions and trillions of the Thai taxpayers money are appropriated for dubious and unsound 'development projects'...)

..enjoy the government you elected....

Edited by metisdead
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Myanmar has a lot of opportunities. India building the 4 land highway across it. Oil and gas possibilities off the coast. Pristine untouched coastline and islands. A largish population with a huge workforce (low skilled) at the ready. Politicians wanting foreign investment and willing to build necessary diplomatic ties.

Myanmar will overtake Thailand in no time, for sure it won't take more than two or three decades whistling.gif

So, not long at all you are saying?

It is going to take a while. Yes, as long as a couple of decades. The infrastructure required in terms of transport and communications is a long way behind in Myanmar.

The recent political reforms and opening up of the country have shown just how stretched the current infrastructure is - due to a sudden influx of foreign interest (business, NGOs, and a lot more tourists than can be handled).

One main difference I see is that the government of Myanmar openly stated in interviews that his country did not have the infrastructure it needed to handle the influx of tourist. He also stated that while they had a sufficient labor force to work, they did not really have the qualified people necessary for planning and development, and had hired a Dutch company to come in and help them plan and develop hotels, stores, etc. As someone mentioned India doing 4 major highways. It would appear that they aren't as struck with the "saving face and false pride" disease as their Thai neighbors, who would rather slit their own throats than to admit they were not capable of doing something, and doing it better than anyone, of course. What's the old saying from the Bible: "Pride goeth before the fall."

Thailand is far from withering, but that doesn't change the fact that Myanmar does present plenty of opportunities, and not necessairly at the expense of Thailand

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The Chinese, the Americans, the Japanese...... they've all used Thailand as a stopover recently on the way to their real objective, the new frontier that is Burma.

Neither the Chinese nor the Japanese have used Thailand as a stopover on their way to Burma.

They've been in there for quite a while....

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The world moves on, while Thailand is held back by its own dictatorship ruling political mafia leaders...

That should be CORRUPT & WHOLLY SELFISH dictatorship ruling political mafia leaders. How can a country grow when those who are responsible for taking care of it are in reality only taking care of themselves?

come november it will be 40 years that i first visited Thailand. since then hardly a year passed without me spending a week or two several times every year. and since then the country grew, infrastructure improved and it is still growing and improving.

come next january it will be 10 years that i live full time in Thailand. and yet i still haven't met any dictators or ruling political mafia leaders coffee1.gif

ter

I'm glad that your house covers all of Thailand, so that you can speak for everyone. I live 60 kms from downtown Bangkok off the main hwy. The infrastructure is NOT reliable. I guess nothing to something is an improvement. Yes it is growing,

it takes 3 months to get a tele. land line installed, but only takes 2 1/2 months to have it repaired. A hell of an improvement. I think TOT only has one guy in the area that can climb a latter.Water and electric also not reliable. I put up with it to stay away from the rat race.I've been in and out of Thailand for 46 yrs and not that impressed with their progress.

Edited by kennedy
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The price of corruption. Smart people have been predicting this for a long time. Will be curious to see if Thailand actually responds to this challenge, or just keeps repeating to itself that it is the master race of Asia, and keeps its head in the sand..

How much is Myanmar changing. on the corruption scale of 174 countries They are still #172 as compared to Thailand's 88. Those are 2012 figures and I believe that at the present rate they are going Thailand will show a higher number on the list while Myanmar will show a considerable lower number on the list. Thailand will still be less corrupt but the difference is narrowing as Myanmar struggle's to gain recognition as a good country and Thailand struggles to make a convicted criminal a dictator.

There is no getting around it Myanmar has a long way to go but they are at least moving in the right direction.

Does any one know if it is possaable to retire in Mynamar?

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The Chinese, the Americans, the Japanese...... they've all used Thailand as a stopover recently on the way to their real objective, the new frontier that is Burma.

Neither the Chinese nor the Japanese have used Thailand as a stopover on their way to Burma.

They've been in there for quite a while....

I see your point. I was referring to their more recent overt politicking.

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The price of corruption. Smart people have been predicting this for a long time. Will be curious to see if Thailand actually responds to this challenge, or just keeps repeating to itself that it is the master race of Asia, and keeps its head in the sand..

How much is Myanmar changing. on the corruption scale of 174 countries They are still #172 as compared to Thailand's 88. Those are 2012 figures and I believe that at the present rate they are going Thailand will show a higher number on the list while Myanmar will show a considerable lower number on the list. Thailand will still be less corrupt but the difference is narrowing as Myanmar struggle's to gain recognition as a good country and Thailand struggles to make a convicted criminal a dictator.

There is no getting around it Myanmar has a long way to go but they are at least moving in the right direction.

Does any one know if it is possaable to retire in Mynamar?

The fact is that little has changed, however the Junta have revamped themselves as civilians, released DASSK to appease the West and will now watch and see...

Money will be coming into the country for sure...maybe yours...but Yangon is way dearer than BKK.....

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Corruption doesn't necessarily disqualify a country from progressing. I believe that China is corrupt to the core.

My observation is that when a country's corruption extends to how it treats foreign investors it can't succeed in the world market.

For instance, Thailand's corruption affects manufacturers when they try to import parts and materials for manufacturing. The officials in charge are paid a commission to rip them off. As a result, the manufacturer can't predict what his imported needs will cost from delivery to delivery.

Then there is outright stupidity. Thailand taxes products such as cars that are manufactured in Thailand as if they were imported, making prices ridiculous. Then they raise the minimum wage by an absurd percentage making labor uncompetitive with nearby developing countries. What would I do if I were Toyota or Ford or Intel?

What can I do to open a business in Thailand? Is Thailand open for business like Singapore is, or is it a shaky club for the privileged few Thais? Where would I look to open a manufacturing plant? Would it be somewhere with low labor costs and encouraging government policies, or would it be Thailand?

I think it's apparent that major powers are looking at other countries almost out of desperation. They want to penetrate the market. They need a presence in SE Asia. These powers, being governments including Japan and Western ones, and large corporations are capable of putting in enough infrastructure to get started in a neighboring country that has room, natural resources, low costs and a place for a deep sea port.

I still think Thailand's heyday of growth is over, and we may well see decline as Thailand, among other things, misses the deep sea port as they are bypassed for greener pastures.

Edited by NeverSure
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The price of corruption. Smart people have been predicting this for a long time. Will be curious to see if Thailand actually responds to this challenge, or just keeps repeating to itself that it is the master race of Asia, and keeps its head in the sand..

How much is Myanmar changing. on the corruption scale of 174 countries They are still #172 as compared to Thailand's 88. Those are 2012 figures and I believe that at the present rate they are going Thailand will show a higher number on the list while Myanmar will show a considerable lower number on the list. Thailand will still be less corrupt but the difference is narrowing as Myanmar struggle's to gain recognition as a good country and Thailand struggles to make a convicted criminal a dictator.

There is no getting around it Myanmar has a long way to go but they are at least moving in the right direction.

Does any one know if it is possaable to retire in Mynamar?

The fact is that little has changed, however the Junta have revamped themselves as civilians, released DASSK to appease the West and will now watch and see...

Money will be coming into the country for sure...maybe yours...but Yangon is way dearer than BKK.....

Who wants to live in Bangkok one of the largest parking lots in the world.cheesy.gif

Yes little has changed but it has started to go the right way and they are having progress.

As I said in my earlier post they do have a long way to go but at least they are going in the right way. Can we honestly say that about Thailand?

As for corruption some one mentioned China according to the 2012 list of 174 countries it is less corrupt than Thailand. Thailand is 88 China is 80 on the list. Really not a lot of difference between the two.sad.png

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At this juncture, Thailand has to wake up to the harsh reality that the US, despite diplomatic pleasantries, is no longer playing the waiting game it used to. With the rise of China and diplomatic commitments that come with it, Washington does not favour Bangkok's approach. The impression among US policy-makers and academics is persistently strong that Thailand is a pro-China country. So, it is difficult to have a genuine alliance with Thailand under the new security environment. Other remaining US allies in the region — Australia, Japan, South Korea and the Philippines—do not have such a problem. The Foreign Ministry often reiterates that it has never chosen any side, particularly between the US and China - but in the real diplomatic world, day-to-day actions speak louder than words. Thailand has leaned toward China for all good and practical reasons.

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Thailand has never been colonized due to this policy and always will butter its bread on both sides and try to benefit maximum from both sides.

Good for them !!

It will avoid making a choice at any cost.

There is nothing wrong with that, and who are the USA and China, to force people to chose anything ?

Thailand is being scrutinized for not choosing a side but as soon as Thailand chooses a side, it will be used as a pawn in the political battle between USA/China.

Why would they want to choose a side.

Can Thailand not just be neutral in this political battle.

As for Thailand being a more pro-china country, helloooh, it is ruled by Chinese.

The business barons of Thailand may be ethnically Chinese but the vast majority of Thailand's career soldiers and politician tend to come from local stock of humbler backgrounds.

Over-representation of (rather diluted) ethnic Chinese in Thai realpolitik doesn't necessarily equate to a natural predisposition towards The Middle Kingdom; Thailand is no more ruled by the Chinese than the USA is ruled by the Anglo-Celts of the British Isles.

Edited by Trembly
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At this juncture, Thailand has to wake up to the harsh reality that the US, despite diplomatic pleasantries, is no longer playing the waiting game it used to. With the rise of China and diplomatic commitments that come with it, Washington does not favour Bangkok's approach. The impression among US policy-makers and academics is persistently strong that Thailand is a pro-China country. So, it is difficult to have a genuine alliance with Thailand under the new security environment. Other remaining US allies in the region — Australia, Japan, South Korea and the Philippines—do not have such a problem. The Foreign Ministry often reiterates that it has never chosen any side, particularly between the US and China - but in the real diplomatic world, day-to-day actions speak louder than words. Thailand has leaned toward China for all good and practical reasons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thailand has never been colonized due to this policy and always will butter its bread on both sides and try to benefit maximum from both sides.

Good for them !!

It will avoid making a choice at any cost.

There is nothing wrong with that, and who are the USA and China, to force people to chose anything ?

Thailand is being scrutinized for not choosing a side but as soon as Thailand chooses a side, it will be used as a pawn in the political battle between USA/China.

Why would they want to choose a side.

Can Thailand not just be neutral in this political battle.

As for Thailand being a more pro-china country, helloooh, it is ruled by Chinese.

The business barons of Thailand may be ethnically Chinese but the vast majority of Thailand's career soldiers and politician tend to come from local stock of humbler backgrounds.

Over-representation of (rather diluted) ethnic Chinese in Thai realpolitik doesn't necessarily equate to a natural predisposition towards The Middle Kingdom; Thailand is no more ruled by the Chinese than the USA is ruled by the Anglo-Celts of the British Isles.

My neighbor is a US university educated Thai army officer, and no fan of China. I think he pretty much reflects the view of the military.

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When Thailand stops kowtowing to China, then the west will be more receptive. My hearts in Thailand , but my money might go to Burma. So far no farang pricing there and people remind me of the Thai's of past, very good people and not the city slicker scammers that have a negative influence here of fleecing foreigners(farangs).

Just like in the states, every day the good folks of that golden generation are dying and being replaced by a dozen self entitled thugs. Glad I saw both countries in their past prime!

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Corruption doesn't necessarily disqualify a country from progressing. I believe that China is corrupt to the core.

My observation is that when a country's corruption extends to how it treats foreign investors it can't succeed in the world market.

For instance, Thailand's corruption affects manufacturers when they try to import parts and materials for manufacturing. The officials in charge are paid a commission to rip them off. As a result, the manufacturer can't predict what his imported needs will cost from delivery to delivery.

Then there is outright stupidity. Thailand taxes products such as cars that are manufactured in Thailand as if they were imported, making prices ridiculous. Then they raise the minimum wage by an absurd percentage making labor uncompetitive with nearby developing countries. What would I do if I were Toyota or Ford or Intel?

What can I do to open a business in Thailand? Is Thailand open for business like Singapore is, or is it a shaky club for the privileged few Thais? Where would I look to open a manufacturing plant? Would it be somewhere with low labor costs and encouraging government policies, or would it be Thailand?

I think it's apparent that major powers are looking at other countries almost out of desperation. They want to penetrate the market. They need a presence in SE Asia. These powers, being governments including Japan and Western ones, and large corporations are capable of putting in enough infrastructure to get started in a neighboring country that has room, natural resources, low costs and a place for a deep sea port.

I still think Thailand's heyday of growth is over, and we may well see decline as Thailand, among other things, misses the deep sea port as they are bypassed for greener pastures.

Thailand may stay at the forefront for a while, but looking at dawei I would be licking my lips as a foreign investor. Already there is reportedly no available labour in Thailand. We know this might be statistically true, but the reality is that there is little labour willing or available to run manufacturing facilities any more. Just look at mapthaput getting stuck with eias these days also.

They can't scoop up farmers and noodle stand people to run a chemical plant or a car plant, so wages are going to increase in Thailands manufacturing.

So, go to Burma, take your pick of the qualified people and run it with a larger imported management than you would in Thailand until the Burmese are up to speed.

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After 30 years of living in Asia, I know the poster child that Burma is at the moment, will turn into a Dracula in the next 5 years.

The deep seated ethnic problems will not be solved quickly or cleanly and corruption there is amazingly endemic if you live there. Have you ever thought why Indonesia has not surpassed Thailand for manufacturing with such low wages and huge workforce?

Corruption from cradle to grave is the norm as in Burma! Can Burma change the very fabric of society? Like Indonesia, I doubt it!

Good comments. Corruption is not just restricted to Thailand. My Burmese friends complain of the endemic corruption in Burma (they all say Burma rather than Myanmaar to). I know from experience of that corruption is also endemic in the Philippines, Indonesia, India, China and Malaysia.

Of course, there is some corruption to be found everywhere, but in some Asian countries it is the accepted way of like.

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At this juncture, Thailand has to wake up to the harsh reality that the US, despite diplomatic pleasantries, is no longer playing the waiting game it used to. With the rise of China and diplomatic commitments that come with it, Washington does not favour Bangkok's approach. The impression among US policy-makers and academics is persistently strong that Thailand is a pro-China country. So, it is difficult to have a genuine alliance with Thailand under the new security environment. Other remaining US allies in the region — Australia, Japan, South Korea and the Philippines—do not have such a problem. The Foreign Ministry often reiterates that it has never chosen any side, particularly between the US and China - but in the real diplomatic world, day-to-day actions speak louder than words. Thailand has leaned toward China for all good and practical reasons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thailand has never been colonized due to this policy and always will butter its bread on both sides and try to benefit maximum from both sides.

Good for them !!

It will avoid making a choice at any cost.

There is nothing wrong with that, and who are the USA and China, to force people to chose anything ?

Thailand is being scrutinized for not choosing a side but as soon as Thailand chooses a side, it will be used as a pawn in the political battle between USA/China.

Why would they want to choose a side.

Can Thailand not just be neutral in this political battle.

As for Thailand being a more pro-china country, helloooh, it is ruled by Chinese.

The business barons of Thailand may be ethnically Chinese but the vast majority of Thailand's career soldiers and politician tend to come from local stock of humbler backgrounds.

Over-representation of (rather diluted) ethnic Chinese in Thai realpolitik doesn't necessarily equate to a natural predisposition towards The Middle Kingdom; Thailand is no more ruled by the Chinese than the USA is ruled by the Anglo-Celts of the British Isles.

This may not be a good analogy, but building on your similie. The Jewish lobby carries significant weight in the USA, particularly on foreign policy. Maybe the Thai ethnic Chinese lobby would be similar. Both lobbies are based on controlling large portions of the ecomonmy and wealth. Just a thought.

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After 30 years of living in Asia, I know the poster child that Burma is at the moment, will turn into a Dracula in the next 5 years.

The deep seated ethnic problems will not be solved quickly or cleanly and corruption there is amazingly endemic if you live there. Have you ever thought why Indonesia has not surpassed Thailand for manufacturing with such low wages and huge workforce?

Corruption from cradle to grave is the norm as in Burma! Can Burma change the very fabric of society? Like Indonesia, I doubt it!

Good comments. Corruption is not just restricted to Thailand. My Burmese friends complain of the endemic corruption in Burma (they all say Burma rather than Myanmaar to). I know from experience of that corruption is also endemic in the Philippines, Indonesia, India, China and Malaysia.

Of course, there is some corruption to be found everywhere, but in some Asian countries it is the accepted way of like.

Curruption is everywhere, the west passes laws to make it legal.

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I think we're back to that fence sitting when others are choosing sides in addition to how hard Thailand makes it for foreigners to do business.

Thailand simply can't have Mr. I'madinnerjacket from Iran visit as a long lost pal, and cozy up to China without repercussions. Japan and The Philippines have parts of their land claimed by China. China is claiming the fishing rights to the South China Sea.

Some SE Asian countries have openly aligned with China while China threatens others. For the others it's "You're either for us or against us." Nations are choosing sides.

Burma has resources far beyond Thailand including a lot of oil. It is also trying to make itself open for business.

Who will get Burma; China or the Western Allies? That is a huge question due to its location and coastline and resources. So the Western Allies move in.

China has always been backward and corrupt, but it has managed to grow and build infrastructure. It's still lagging badly, but it's done it without any help from the West. Imagine what Burma could do with help from the West. The West and Japan could build their seaport for them in exchange for usage - even strategic usage. The West has declined to help Thailand with any seaport as has Japan.

This is partly a jilted girlfriend thing we are seeing as Thailand declares itself "the hub" and fails to see the danger that the other countries see from China.

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I think we're back to that fence sitting when others are choosing sides in addition to how hard Thailand makes it for foreigners to do business.

Thailand simply can't have Mr. I'madinnerjacket from Iran visit as a long lost pal, and cozy up to China without repercussions. Japan and The Philippines have parts of their land claimed by China. China is claiming the fishing rights to the South China Sea.

Some SE Asian countries have openly aligned with China while China threatens others. For the others it's "You're either for us or against us." Nations are choosing sides.

Burma has resources far beyond Thailand including a lot of oil. It is also trying to make itself open for business.

Who will get Burma; China or the Western Allies? That is a huge question due to its location and coastline and resources. So the Western Allies move in.

China has always been backward and corrupt, but it has managed to grow and build infrastructure. It's still lagging badly, but it's done it without any help from the West. Imagine what Burma could do with help from the West. The West and Japan could build their seaport for them in exchange for usage - even strategic usage. The West has declined to help Thailand with any seaport as has Japan.

This is partly a jilted girlfriend thing we are seeing as Thailand declares itself "the hub" and fails to see the danger that the other countries see from China.

"This is partly a jilted girlfriend thing we are seeing as Thailand declares itself "the hub" and fails to see the danger that the other countries see from China."

I like the 'jilted girlfriend' analogy, but, rather like it's world claim to fame, Thailand has been sleeping with the neighbor ((China) for a reward.

I believe you are right, and Burma will focus more and more on the help it can get from western countries as well as the Japanese who are no lovers of the Chinese..

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Then there is outright stupidity. Thailand taxes products such as cars that are manufactured in Thailand as if they were imported, making prices ridiculous. Then they raise the minimum wage by an absurd percentage making labor uncompetitive with nearby developing countries. What would I do if I were Toyota or Ford or Intel?

What can I do to open a business in Thailand? Is Thailand open for business like Singapore is, or is it a shaky club for the privileged few Thais? Where would I look to open a manufacturing plant? Would it be somewhere with low labor costs and encouraging government policies, or would it be Thailand?

I am sure you are better informed than I but didn't Ford just open a big plant in Thailand and close one in Australia? So I guess the answer to your question, "What would I do if I were Ford? Open plants in Thailand and close them in Australia.biggrin.png
They open plants here to export, the domestic market is just icing on the cake that the government taxes to death in return for allowing the car makers to transfer price their margins out of the country.

One could in essence look at it, as buying a car made in Thailand in Thailand add a subsidy to the manufacturers.

Edited by Thai at Heart
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Then there is outright stupidity. Thailand taxes products such as cars that are manufactured in Thailand as if they were imported, making prices ridiculous. Then they raise the minimum wage by an absurd percentage making labor uncompetitive with nearby developing countries. What would I do if I were Toyota or Ford or Intel?

What can I do to open a business in Thailand? Is Thailand open for business like Singapore is, or is it a shaky club for the privileged few Thais? Where would I look to open a manufacturing plant? Would it be somewhere with low labor costs and encouraging government policies, or would it be Thailand?

I am sure you are better informed than I but didn't Ford just open a big plant in Thailand and close one in Australia? So I guess the answer to your question, "What would I do if I were Ford? Open plants in Thailand and close them in Australia.biggrin.png
They open plants here to export, the domestic market is just icing on the cake that the government taxes to death in return for allowing the car makers to transfer price their margins out of the country.

One could in essence look at it, as buying a car made in Thailand in Thailand add a subsidy to the manufacturers.

So are you saying it is bad for Thailand when Ford opens a plant and employs thousands in primary and secondary products and services in Thailand?

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Then there is outright stupidity. Thailand taxes products such as cars that are manufactured in Thailand as if they were imported, making prices ridiculous. Then they raise the minimum wage by an absurd percentage making labor uncompetitive with nearby developing countries. What would I do if I were Toyota or Ford or Intel?

What can I do to open a business in Thailand? Is Thailand open for business like Singapore is, or is it a shaky club for the privileged few Thais? Where would I look to open a manufacturing plant? Would it be somewhere with low labor costs and encouraging government policies, or would it be Thailand?

I am sure you are better informed than I but didn't Ford just open a big plant in Thailand and close one in Australia? So I guess the answer to your question, "What would I do if I were Ford? Open plants in Thailand and close them in Australia.biggrin.png
They open plants here to export, the domestic market is just icing on the cake that the government taxes to death in return for allowing the car makers to transfer price their margins out of the country.

One could in essence look at it, as buying a car made in Thailand in Thailand add a subsidy to the manufacturers.

So are you saying it is bad for Thailand when Ford opens a plant and employs thousands in primary and secondary products and services in Thailand?

Not at all. It was more in answer to the statement about taxation of cars in Thailand. Many of these companies are BOI, so pay virtually no income taxes, so as a sop to the manufacturers as a show of commitment to the manufacturers the government taxes the crap out of the imports to give them a protected status, and makes the consumer pay rather high excise taxes on domestically produced vehicles.

Its all great that they open factories and bring jobs here, it is just that the government uses their excise system to collect pretty high taxes on cars made domestically, in lieu of making BOI a little less generous. Thus, car buyers (consumers) are essentially subsidising the BOI status of the car manufacturers in Thailand. It is very much a chicken and egg situation, with the consumer ending up covered with the egg.

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The world moves on, while Thailand is held back by its own dictatorship ruling political mafia leaders...

That should be CORRUPT & WHOLLY SELFISH dictatorship ruling political mafia leaders. How can a country grow when those who are responsible for taking care of it are in reality only taking care of themselves?

come november it will be 40 years that i first visited Thailand. since then hardly a year passed without me spending a week or two several times every year. and since then the country grew, infrastructure improved and it is still growing and improving.

come next january it will be 10 years that i live full time in Thailand. and yet i still haven't met any dictators or ruling political mafia leaders coffee1.gifhttp--,,--//static.thaivisa.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/coffee1.gif [/url]]

What cave are you living in within Thailand? Glad you never met high ranking police nor red shirt leaders. Ignorance is bliss. Edited by gemini81
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