Thailand's English Skills Lowest In S E A

[frankold]

You mean it needed tests to come to this conclusion?

 

Several years ago I was in the situation of having to correspond at length with the head of the English department at one of the big Bangkok Universities . . . the lady in charge of teaching the teachers. I was astonished to discover that her written English was probably similar to  that of a bright UK/USA/Aus etc 8-or 9-year-old . . . ie, confident but littered with grammatical and structural mistakes.

 

Will the Thai nation remain smug and offhand when it is suddenly out in the same competitive trading arena as the other ASEAN countries?

 

And will it keep its back turned with even fiercer pride, and shout even more loudly about how much finer the nation is than its . . . neighbours?

 

YOOOOOOOOOO BETCHA IT WILL!

 

R

THis "expert" is basing his comments on the survey on one chance encounter he had - not really the methodology of a expert?

Ya. There must be a really low probability to get talking with a thai in thailand.

Why don't you ask him for a detailed report on the language skills of every thai he's ever spoken to? I'm at the edge of my seat..

[mrtoad]

The problem is nothing to do with white teachers. The majority of Thais are taught by Thai teachers who are afraid to speak english (even if they could), and use Thai 95% of the time. I'm still astounded that the average government school graduate can say barely more than hello, even after 12 years of learning english. There are plenty of excellent speakers of english here, educated in private / international schools / overseas, but they are in the vast minority of all citizens.

This gets to the heart of the problem with Thai teachers passing on the bad English they themselves were taught. I taught for quite a few years including university level and soon stopped being surprised at the stories the students told me of how they had learned, or not learned , in High School.

Most had never really put a sentence or two of spoken English together in class as the teacher couldn't handle it and the students knew it.

I know quite a few people who have a BA in English but from their spoken English you would never believe it.

Another point to keep in mind is that A Thai university first degree (BA, BSc) is roughly of the standard of an International Baccalaureate ie UK equivalent of 'A' Levels. Add this to the general abysmal English teaching mix and draw your own conclusions!

R

Is there a survey to back up that assessment or are you just voicing an opinion snatched out of thin air?

judging by some of the English Degree graduates that I have come across, I'd say that is being very generous.

[aTomsLife]

English is the tip of the iceberg. How do Thais matchup in math, world history, geography, civics and science? Anyone know?

My thoughts:

Math: I've heard conflicting reports, some saying that Thais do okay.

Science: I'm not sure, but at least they don't teach creationism here, like Texas.

Civics, geography and history: 5555

With 50+ kids in each class, by and large unmotivated and easily distracted, striving Thai students certainly have their work cut out for themselves. Though they do indeed exist.

Edited June 11, 2013 by aTomsLife

[aechzen]

460.000 millions speak english as nativ but 1.3 billion speak english as second or third language , so who cares !?

Edited June 11, 2013 by aechzen

[DocN]

Well...you don't need to speak English "constantly" to learn it.

I am German and learned English at school. Outside of the English- classes, there hardly was any English spoken at all.

Still I managed to learn it and-as many native English speakers tell me- quiet good.

So it is possible to learn a second language.

It is all about the willingness to learn and the interest in learning.

Working in tourism, I am often speaking to University- graduates, who are not able to to speak any English. so if my Thai- colleague was out, some sales representatives from hotels or agents rather came back a second time, than talking to me!

I think, Thailand is facing 2 giant problems here:

1) the education- system is rotten to the core. Teachers are not able to teach the language, students get a "pass" even if they are not good at English at all.

2) if you are told all your life, that you are superior anyways and everyone will follow your lead and suddenly the tables turn and you find out, that this is not the case...you are doomed.

I learned a lot of my English from Rock- music, because I was interested to know, what Mr. Springsteen, Mr. Idol or the Gentlemen in U2 had to tell me.

I was interested in the language.

Thai generally don't give a ....

[mrtoad]

"Where you come from?" 'I'm from jail' "Oh, long time?" 'Yes, long, 6 years' "What you do?" 'I am a very terrible child abuser' "Oh, you buy drink for me?" In our company I see resume's, resume's, resume's.......all applicants speak perfect English. Even approved by their 'university'. When it comes to the point, they do not have a clue where one is talking about.

I have had a number of candidates for employment who have arrived with a Degree in English, and a statement saying that they speak English. Going past the normal introductions, they were totally lost and spoke less English than a 2 year old.

[Gsxrnz]

When I had a job interview with a Thai guy from a university I said to him "Good morning, how are you?"

His responce "Slowly, slowly please....."

Had a similar reaction with the daughter of a friend. She's 22 and studied since she was 9 and for the last 4 years at university level. Her written English is fair but listening, understanding, and speaking are diabolical. She was going for a job interview as a hotel receptionist and wanted my help to improve her conversation.

After only 10 hours over the course of a week she had improved exponentially. In her case the core teaching in writing and grammar seemed OK, but the actual use of the language and actually hearing it seemed to be missing.

The first few hours it was "slowly, slowly prease", then she got more confidence. I said to her what colour is your t-shirt, and after many attempts at getting her to understand it, she replied "teacher not have carrot". She apparently heard "what carrot is your teacher". I mean I know I have a Kiwi accent, but it's not that bad!

The improvement she showed in pronunciation and listening skills over that short time were amazing, she got the job so it's all worked out for her. She had a lot of drive so I'm sure she'll keep improving on her own.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[culicine]

The problem is nothing to do with white teachers. The majority of Thais are taught by Thai teachers who are afraid to speak english (even if they could), and use Thai 95% of the time. I'm still astounded that the average government school graduate can say barely more than hello, even after 12 years of learning english. There are plenty of excellent speakers of english here, educated in private / international schools / overseas, but they are in the vast minority of all citizens.

This gets to the heart of the problem with Thai teachers passing on the bad English they themselves were taught. I taught for quite a few years including university level and soon stopped being surprised at the stories the students told me of how they had learned, or not learned , in High School.

Most had never really put a sentence or two of spoken English together in class as the teacher couldn't handle it and the students knew it.

I know quite a few people who have a BA in English but from their spoken English you would never believe it.

I was recently approached by a group of Thai students (college level - 18-19 years old) with a 'survey' project where they had to find a farang and giggle a lot. And ask questions.

I scanned the teacher's question sheet. Then spent 3 or 4 minutes correcting all the teacher's mistakes. There were maybe 20 errors in 10 simple questions. Then told the puzzled front man that he should give this back to the teacher with all the mistakes corrected, so he/she (teacher) could get it right next time.

I wonder whatever became of my corrected sheet. Sure as sh*t it never got to the teacher (face face face) and it it ever did nothing was changed (face face face)!

R

Once my Thai wife was asked to edit some work for an english monthly magazine. One Thai man submitted work which was appalling. My wife made many corections and I added a couple she missed. I guess this guy thought he knew how to write and was a bit miffed his work was changed so much. We weren't asked to do any more editing for that magazine lol

I have the highest respect for any Thai that is not so proud to have the work edited and scrutinised. They put their knowledge before their face.

[chainarong]

No surprises here, the government would rather a Gold plated HSRail than see some one receive a good education, , having said that, it needs to be recognised that to have a top education system you need top teachers , unfortunately, Thailand has neither the resources nor the fortitude to accommodate this. Also keeping the peasants in a subservient climate stops them asking questions

[connda]

I offer to teach for free. I'm over 60 and now I'd like to give back to society. But Thai society just doesn't get it.

First, I've offered to teach any government organization a 30 hour basic English class for free. My only requirement -- that the organization fills out the necessary paperwork for me to obtain a valid work permit. I get smiles, and promises, and "feigned" interest, but little more,

Second, I've offered to teach any school within the Ampher I live in a 30 hour basic English class for free, but only for teachers...why not students -- give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. My only requirement -- that the organization fills out the necessary paperwork for me to obtain a valid work permit. I get smiles, and promises, and "feigned" interest, but little more,

If the Alien Work Act wasn't such a xenophobic piece of legislation (which by the way, there is no mention of volunteering, but anger the wrong Puu Yai and see if you don't end up in jail), then perhaps pensioners like me (with educational qualifications, and I do have them) would be willing to help the rural poor where I live. You know what would make my day? One or two kids breaking free from the poverty and going on to university, and having a good life. And then sharing that good fortune with their village by coming back and assisting others to break free from the cycle of poverty. Don't tell me that the culture will not allow it: Young folk will define the future of this and other countries.

Yes, Thailand's xenophobic, nationalism will keep them in the back seat of the Emerging Markets. And until the Amart and middle classes pull there heads out of where the "sun don't shine", they will remain in the back seat. But as long as the Amart make the big bucks -- who cares, right! And the middle-class, like all middle-classes, are too glued to their 50 inch plasma screen TVs and their Hilux 4x4s to give much of a rip about anyone but themselves.

[culicine]

English is the tip of the iceberg. How do Thais matchup in math, world history, geography, civics and science? Anyone know?

My thoughts:

Math: I've heard conflicting reports, some saying that Thais do okay.

Science: I'm not sure, but at least they don't teach creationism here, like Texas.

Civics, geography and history: 5555

With 50+ kids in each class, by and large unmotivated and easily distracted, striving Thai students certainly have their work cut out for themselves. Though they do indeed exist.

My grade 9-10 math(s) students would be more advanced (by about a year), compared to international schools here and Australian schools that I'm aware of. The students are rather bright and cope well with non-traditional open ended kinds of questions. The students don't have a problem; it's the system that lets them down, especially at the end of high school when entrance exams become important.

[allan michaud]

Shock, horror, surprise.

What makes me laugh is that here in Cambodia the level of English is excellent, way above Thailand and from people I know who work in Burma there is widespread use of English, largely due to the historical connection from British rule.

The level of Engrish in Thailand is an absolute joke and see no reason whatsoever, why it should improve in the near future.

[Soutpeel]

I think expats in Thailand relish this kind of survey result, but of course they aren't interested in looking into it further, much better to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they have some in depth knowledge of the cutlural ins-andouts of language leaning and a detailed knowledge of language teaching - suddenly everyone's an expert?

Singapore - ex- British colony

Malaysia - ex-British colony

Philippines - ex - US colony

Indonesia and Thailand not a lot of difference apart from the fat Idonesia had Dutch and English influences

How about Cambodia , Laos and Vietnam? French influence there.

always been impressed by the levels of English spoken in Cambodia even the the beggars on the street, Was taking to one Cambodian guy and he spoke English,French, Khmer and passable Thai

I think the problem with Thailand is that the Thai elite dont want the "peasants" learning English as if they do a whole new world will open up to them

[cmiuc]

As many of you are English teachers, you do know that there is a lot of money coming into the English programs... but it has become more of a source for corruption then for education... and as long as this happens, it will always be the case. Its sad when the ASEAN Unification comes in, Thailand will be at the bottom of the list... But maybe on the good news, It will now have to follow the unification such as Singpore's Education system to be able to not be 'fined' or brought to court... which will be valuable to all.

Down on corruption and promotion of ethics... (maybe a bit "Utopian") but we can hope

[paddyjenkins]

Like all problems in thailand, this is once again the fault of the West, falangs generally. If the British had colonised Thailand then the Thais would be better English speakers. So i presume an apology is now due from Britain?

[aTomsLife]

always been impressed by the levels of English spoken in Cambodia even the the beggars on the street, Was taking to one Cambodian guy and he spoke English,French, Khmer and passable Thai

I think the problem with Thailand is that the Thai elite dont want the "peasants" learning English as if they do a whole new world will open up to them

I don't think the Thai elite want the peasants learning anything. Better they just pray to win the lottery.

Edited June 11, 2013 by aTomsLife

[aTomsLife]

English is the tip of the iceberg. How do Thais matchup in math, world history, geography, civics and science? Anyone know?

My thoughts:

Math: I've heard conflicting reports, some saying that Thais do okay.

Science: I'm not sure, but at least they don't teach creationism here, like Texas.

Civics, geography and history: 5555

With 50+ kids in each class, by and large unmotivated and easily distracted, striving Thai students certainly have their work cut out for themselves. Though they do indeed exist.

My grade 9-10 math(s) students would be more advanced (by about a year), compared to international schools here and Australian schools that I'm aware of. The students are rather bright and cope well with non-traditional open ended kinds of questions. The students don't have a problem; it's the system that lets them down, especially at the end of high school when entrance exams become important.

Where do you teach? And how are you able to make that assessment? I'm not doubting you, just curious. Thanks.

[Soutpeel]

"Where you come from?" 'I'm from jail' "Oh, long time?" 'Yes, long, 6 years' "What you do?" 'I am a very terrible child abuser' "Oh, you buy drink for me?" In our company I see resume's, resume's, resume's.......all applicants speak perfect English. Even approved by their 'university'. When it comes to the point, they do not have a clue where one is talking about.

I have had a numnber of candidates for employment who have arrived with a Degree in English, and a statement saying that they speak English. Going past the normal introductions, they were totally lost and spoke less English than a 2 year old.

Dont you think a lot of this is to do with the way they are taught English in Thailand ? one suspects if you asked your English university graduates about grammatical structure and "rules" they would be able to answer you in writing at least . ..but being taught grammatical rules is not the way to learn any language.

Those of us who are 1st language English speaking were not taught English grammer by our parents, typically our only exposure to grammar was at high school and would bet most of us hated it and couldnt see the point in doing it ?

When I worked in China in the early 90's on Nuclear construction, it was mandatory for the Chinese engineers to attend English lessons, one particular lad who was a mechanical engineer showed me what they were being taught...it was pure grammar and even I was confused as a 1st language English speaker.. ... I said I would help him with his English, but not with the grammar, mainly because I couldnt, but at the end of about 18 months he came out top of his English class...

[mrfill]

here's what they say in malaysia about thai & their language skills:

"they even dub tom & jerry cartoons in thai"

(fi: tom & jerry don't speak)

I remember a few years ago switching on a TV in Nong Khai to find Teletubbies being shown. The soundtrack was dubbed into Thai !!! Eh oh....

[jaideeguy]

No surprise at all, but pathetic because LOS probably pumps out the most English teachers with the TEFL schools and other English teaching ops as well as 'entertaining' the most English speaking tourists. Is it the teachers, students or admin fault??

Edited June 11, 2013 by jaideeguy

[Cats4ever]

How many of the posters disparaging Thais, are bilingual?

I am in Cambodia at present and I think the standard of English here is higher.

[Hecate]

Thailand should have a special visa category for English teachers so they can work independently and part-time. The deal currently being offered--30,000B for long hours in a sweat shop--is not very appealing. My friends at home can't believe it when I tell them that I could be thrown in jail if I did some tutoring or volunteering.

[gemini81]

I have two sons, Thai American. Their English is very good, but I only speak to them in English. They both go to Thai schools, not international schools. One son is in regular class and the other is in HM the Kings class at the same school. The quality of teaching is different. in the Kings class the English teacher is from the USA. In the regular class they are Philippine or Indian.

When I came here in 1966, I was in the US Army and worked with Thais. Some of them were very fluent in English, but they were trained by the Army.

The problem with the English language usage in Thailand is oral communication and comprehension. The majority listen to the English and than translate it to Thai in their head. Professor Brown at AUA taught the total immersion program, learn by listening.

Must be a good way; poor kids selling copied goods in Cambodia shocked me with clear, fluent American slang. 'Hey there man, you wanna buy some cigarettes?' After years in Thailand, that is a surprise and....supports what you said & shows the backwardness, pride, uncultured and unexposed tendencies here, with some exception in Bangkok.

Surely the aping of American slang in Cambodia does not indicate the quality of knowledge of the English language?

Nor the quality of schooling?

You must be joking.

Running around in Tesco one can hear the same aping of American twanging sounds on the tannoy.

Quite awful, and indeed, hardly understandable.

I am not a native speaker, but I wonder if American "English" is a measure to weigh someone's knowledge of the language.

Thai students of English have a tendency to "change" the sounds, and the American sounds even more.

Making it even more difficult to understand what is said.

C'mon poor unschooled kids age eight can emulate the sound and tones and interpret the meaning there though they have a tonal language too, & the general ones here who've learned for years on end & still can't string a sentence together, nor with the right accent.

Doesn't matter what dialect you like, English is English; most western languages share similarities despite which ones people may or may not like.

Bottom line is some countries have that western thinking, sort of bold & straight forward, and less worried about what others think..leading to them being less reluctant to just talk and engage without all the grammar & shyness..

Edited June 11, 2013 by gemini81

[midnightrambler]

Hi guys….i've been reading these forums for years from my boring perch in the states.

My big [lame]lifelong dream has been to teach english in SEA/thailand.

I have a BA in literature and an ESL certificate.

After reading about the rules/regulations and visa nonsense,thai language/cultural tests/classes ,random electrocutions,road accidents ,random public drug tests [no i don't do drugs] corrupt police, thieves,jet ski scams,and general thai government stupidity [i'm excluding face saving from this equation]

the last place on my list to teach english is Thailand.

It seems as though the thai gov't has gone out of it's way to make it as hard as possible for a farang to actually get a job teaching English.

While the food,ocean proximity and social/nightl life related stuff does seem incredible in Thailand, as appealing it looks like i will be headed to cambodia instead.

It seems like Cambodia has far less red tape and moronic nonsense related to teaching ESL for a guy like me.

Am I off base here?

Edited June 11, 2013 by midnightrambler

[RickBradford]

Thailand must have the worst English-language skills in ASEAN, with the possible exception of Laos. I know from personal experience how much better the English is in Vietnam and Burma.

The reason is simple: the people in those countries want to learn English so as to get ahead.

For example, there was an embarrassing segment on Thai TV this morning, featuring Thailand's best-known news reporter, the main sports reporter, an interpreter, and a young footballer from Manchester Utd, here on a promotional trip.

Neither of the journalists tried anything in English, while the chosen interpreter spoke baby-talk English for the most part, and was getting no more than 60% of what the footballer was saying (and he was trying to speak slowly).

But as long as they don't care about the outside world, and its opportunities and pitfalls, Thailand is going to discover that the outside world doesn't care about it, either.

[samjaidee]

A misleading headline. It should read, "Thailand's English Skills Lowest in Part of SEA."

I live in SEA and I don't live in any of the countries mentioned.

What about Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar?

Since the assessment takers were from many positions and levels, from the junior executives and senior executives to managers and senior managers I'm confident that the scores in Vietnam would be way above both Indonesia and Thailand. Having done business in Cambodia, I'm pretty sure they would also be in the 60th percentile.

It's obvious to anyone that Singapore and Malaysia would be higher than Thailand, after all they did have a rather strong British influence in the past.

Bit of a non-article really.

[lujanit]

"Thailand at 55 percent"

I am surprised that it is this high. Must have been a select group who took the test. I would have thought that 5% would be closer to the truth. Then again, why do the majority of thais need to speak english?

[Pib]

No need English in the little Thai universe....need be happy.

[scorecard]

The problem is nothing to do with white teachers. The majority of Thais are taught by Thai teachers who are afraid to speak english (even if they could), and use Thai 95% of the time. I'm still astounded that the average government school graduate can say barely more than hello, even after 12 years of learning english. There are plenty of excellent speakers of english here, educated in private / international schools / overseas, but they are in the vast minority of all citizens.

This gets to the heart of the problem with Thai teachers passing on the bad English they themselves were taught. I taught for quite a few years including university level and soon stopped being surprised at the stories the students told me of how they had learned, or not learned , in High School.

Most had never really put a sentence or two of spoken English together in class as the teacher couldn't handle it and the students knew it.

I know quite a few people who have a BA in English but from their spoken English you would never believe it.

And further, you can find many instances of Thai Kids who speak quite good English (in some cases from immersion because they have a farang father or something similar) being continuously told by their Thai teachers that their English is wrong. I know, My Thai son (speaks close to native speaker English)went through all of this at a Thai university.

[laocowboy2]

You mean it needed tests to come to this conclusion?

Several years ago I was in the situation of having to correspond at length with the head of the English department at one of the big Bangkok Universities . . . the lady in charge of teaching the teachers. I was astonished to discover that her written English was probably similar to that of a bright UK/USA/Aus etc 8-or 9-year-old . . . ie, confident but littered with grammatical and structural mistakes.

Will the Thai nation remain smug and offhand when it is suddenly out in the same competitive trading arena as the other ASEAN countries?

And will it keep its back turned with even fiercer pride, and shout even more loudly about how much finer the nation is than its . . . neighbours?

YOOOOOOOOOO BETCHA IT WILL!

R

I still think we'll see the ol' two step flip-flop on ASEAN... I feel Thailand won't be ready and they are not going to expose themselves to a rush of workers from other countries that can speak English... they will "take the Thai jobs" away and I can't see that happening...

They may want to try to opt out but I do not believe that the other countries will let them - Malaysia and Singapore in particular. The only way out would be the nuclear option - to leave ASEAN itself. Not going to happen.