Kbank charging a 2.5% currency conversion fee

[edwardandtubs]

I bought something from abroad using my KBank web shopping card and was charged a couple of thousand baht more than the current KBank exchange rates. This is the explanation they gave me:

In addition, the Cardholder agrees and accepts that the hedging premium at the rate not exceeding 2.5% of the spending amount shall be charged by the Bank to protect against risk incurred from such currency conversion.

When did they introduce this? Do other banks charge this 2.5% fee?

[sas_cars]

Yes. All banks charges this 2.5% Fee on foreign currency conversions. The cheapest of them is Bangkok bank cards, which charge 1.5 %

[edwardandtubs]

Thanks. It's cheaper to pay by wire transfer then for anything over $1000 or so.

[sas_cars]

No. Wire transfer isn't cheaper for a 1000 $ payment. You have to factor in the various fees you will pay. Here they are

1, Wire transfer fee. 500 Baht , plus around 0.5 % currency conversion of baht in USD, charged by your bank

2, intermediary bank charge ranging between 15-35 USD , it's deducted automatically from the money during transit

3, incoming wire charges, if any, this is what the receiver pays to receive a wire. Usually he will held you responsible for this as well.

Combining all above, you are better off paying the 2.5 % on a 1000 $ purchase.

[edwardandtubs]

Well, I did say $1000 or so. Last time I did a wire transfer the fees were 300 baht + $25. The currency conversion rate is the same for a card transaction or wire transfer. $1500 for a wire transfer would be about $35 total fees to a major EU bank while a card transaction would be $37.50.

[Satcommlee]

That's news to me.... I have found even micropayments to be pretty much on par with advertised rates.

I use the web shopping card, for transactions up to 100K... never noticed this 2.5% or maybe I just didnt look hard enough or even notice.

Or maybe it is added by the recipient?

Edited June 11, 2013 by Satcommlee

[Gerald14]

As much as possible I try to pay with local cards to avoid such fees

[Pib]

Currency Conversion Risk Fee....I just love the names banks give to their various fees...many are given names which depict the source of the fee as being outside the bank when in fact it's purely just a service the bank wants to charge a fee for. It should be named Bank Currency Conversion Profit Fee. I can guarantee you that the 2.5% fee is extra profit on top of the lower exchange rate they arrange with currency wholesalers and the credit card fee charged to the merchant. Fortunately, there are numerous banks in the world that provide no foreign transaction fee credit/debit cards; unfortunately, there are no banks in Thailand that provide no foreign transaction fee cards that I'm aware of.

[abrahamzvi]

Any credit card when used in a currency other than the one it is issued in, attracts a fee, which varies from one country and one bank to another. In the US the fee normally amounts to 2%, in Europe between 1.5 and 2.5% and in Thailand it's the same as in Europe. What one has to be aware of is that most banks, here in Thailand as well as in other countries, use the lowest exchange rate and therefore for higher amounts it may be cheaper to have a wire transfer than pay by Credit/debit card, outside the country

[how241]

No. Wire transfer isn't cheaper for a 1000 $ payment. You have to factor in the various fees you will pay. Here they are

1, Wire transfer fee. 500 Baht , plus around 0.5 % currency conversion of baht in USD, charged by your bank

2, intermediary bank charge ranging between 15-35 USD , it's deducted automatically from the money during transit

3, incoming wire charges, if any, this is what the receiver pays to receive a wire. Usually he will held you responsible for this as well.

Combining all above, you are better off paying the 2.5 % on a 1000 $ purchase.

+1...Good info. Thanks

[Ratsima]

Any credit card when used in a currency other than the one it is issued in, attracts a fee, which varies from one country and one bank to another.

Not so. I have a credit card from Capital One bank in the US that charges no foreign exchange fee. I use it for non-US purchases both online and in person.

[RedQualia]

Any credit card when used in a currency other than the one it is issued in, attracts a fee, which varies from one country and one bank to another.

Not so. I have a credit card from Capital One bank in the US that charges no foreign exchange fee. I use it for non-US purchases both online and in person.

Exactly right. I was thinking to post a note on the Capital One card I use with no foreign exchange fee. Now I will simply second it. Chase Bank also offers one, although the annual fee of $95 seems quite high to me.

[Pib]

Any credit card when used in a currency other than the one it is issued in, attracts a fee, which varies from one country and one bank to another. In the US the fee normally amounts to 2%, in Europe between 1.5 and 2.5% and in Thailand it's the same as in Europe. What one has to be aware of is that most banks, here in Thailand as well as in other countries, use the lowest exchange rate and therefore for higher amounts it may be cheaper to have a wire transfer than pay by Credit/debit card, outside the country

Well, not "any" credit card. I have 3 U.S. no foreign transaction fee credit cards...two Visa and one MasterCard...and they are all no annual fee cards. Use the MasterCard in Thailand almost daily in my Lotus, Big C, HomePro, whatever buys as it also provides the highest cash back of the other cards...it provides a 2% cash back on most buys/1% on the remaining. Use the other two cards occasionally just to keep them exercised....one of them provides 1.5% cash back and the remaining a measly 0.25% cash back--but the "no foreign transaction fee" is the real reason for using these cards. But I will agree that the great majority of banks/companies which issue credit cards do have a foreign transaction fee associated with the card in the 1 to 3% ballpark...and some rub salt in that fee wound by also applying another flat fee of a few U.S. equivalent dollars on every transaction regardless of the amount.....these are the very fee hungry banks. So, a person could end up with two fees of say 3% of the amount plus $2 flat fee...on a $1000USD equivalent transaction that would add up to $1032.

And if some one was using their credit card to get a cash advance then above mentioned fee(s) apply plus the cash advance starts racking up interest probably in the 20%/year ballpark...and let's not forget the Bt150 fee (for a Visa card) or Bt180 fee(for a MasterCard) the Thai bank ATMs apply to "foreign" credit/debit cards...if using a credit card in an ATM to get a cash advance best to use AEON ATMs which do not charge this Bt150/Bt180 fee for foreign credit or debit cards. Yeap, cards that carry a foreign transaction fee are real cash cows for banks/card companies.

If you are looking to get a Visa or MasterCard no foreign transaction fee credit or debit card, probably best to go with Visa since Visa's exchange rate is usually around 0.1 to 0.2Bt/USD higher than MasterCard's. And the Visa exchange rate is usually plus or minus (usually plus) a few stang of the average Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for wire transfers. Ex: as of this millisecond in time the Visa exchange rate is 30.74/USD, MasterCard 30.64, and the average TT Buying Rate of Thai banks is 30.81...OK, the Visa rate is a little lower today but my experience has shown its usually a few stang above. The baht exchange rate must have varied more than usual today because from looking at Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate where they usually only have one or two rate updates throughout the day, today they had five which indicates there was a good amount of USD/Thai baht variation today. The Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate started off the day at 30.85/USD, peaked late in the morning at 31.00, and ended the day at 30.82.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Pib

[HerbalEd]

It's standard practice all over the world. Unfortunately I get a similar charge whenever I use my USA-issued credit card to by something here in Thailand ... which is why I use cash or my BKK Bank debit card as much as possible.

[Pib]

It's standard practice all over the world. Unfortunately I get a similar charge whenever I use my USA-issued credit card to by something here in Thailand ... which is why I use cash or my BKK Bank debit card as much as possible.

Get a Capital One credit card...no annual fee...no foreign transaction fee...and a cash back program....various cards to pick from depending on whether you want cash back, reward points, your credit rating, etc. I've got one of their Mastercards (the card I referred to that pays 2% or 1% cash back depending on what you buy...at most Thai stores like Lotus and Big C I get 2% cash back...also set 2% cash back on fuel buys for my SUV) and one of their Visa cards which pays 1.5% cash back. The 2% cash back MasterCard is no longer available to new members (but I still get the 2% cash back since I had the card about 2 years...gets used about every other day somewhere here in Bangkok)....and I got the Visa card just a few months ago as a backup and selected use depending on what I buy since it pays a 1.5% cash back on everything where my MasterCard mostly pays 2% but only 1% on some things like hardware store/HomePro transactions, restaurant transactions, medical/hospital bills, etc.. I only use Capital One's credit cards; I don't have a bank account with them where they also offer a no foreign transaction fee debit card.

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank credit cards also carry a 2.5% foreign transaction fee...but to quote below what they call it.

11. Currency conversion risk premium: no more than 2.5% of spending.

I love the "no more than..." phrase...I would lay money it's exactly 2.5% each and every foreign transactions. And a cash advance on the card runs a 3% fee and then it starts racking up 20% annual interest. And interest this high is easily found in western countries also like the U.S. See this Bangkok Bank webpage for more credit card fee info. Nothing unusual, other Thai banks charge basically the same thing. Many fees from Thai bank to Thai bank are very similar to identical. Do I have a Thai credit card--no way!!!...very little consumer protection on Thai credit cards....it's more bank protection.

[sas_cars]

It's standard practice all over the world. Unfortunately I get a similar charge whenever I use my USA-issued credit card to by something here in Thailand ... which is why I use cash or my BKK Bank debit card as much as possible.

Get a Capital One credit card...no annual fee...no foreign transaction fee...and a cash back program....various cards to pick from depending on whether you want cash back, reward points, your credit rating, etc. I've got one of their Mastercards (the card I referred to that pays 2% or 1% cash back depending on what you buy...at most Thai stores like Lotus and Big C I get 2% cash back...also set 2% cash back on fuel buys for my SUV) and one of their Visa cards which pays 1.5% cash back. The 2% cash back MasterCard is no longer available to new members (but I still get the 2% cash back since I had the card about 2 years...gets used about every other day somewhere here in Bangkok)....and I got the Visa card just a few months ago as a backup and selected use depending on what I buy since it pays a 1.5% cash back on everything where my MasterCard mostly pays 2% but only 1% on some things like hardware store/HomePro transactions, restaurant transactions, medical/hospital bills, etc.. I only use Capital One's credit cards; I don't have a bank account with them where they also offer a no foreign transaction fee debit card.

Is it possible for non-US residents and non citizens to get this capital one credit card ?

[Pib]

It's standard practice all over the world. Unfortunately I get a similar charge whenever I use my USA-issued credit card to by something here in Thailand ... which is why I use cash or my BKK Bank debit card as much as possible.

Get a Capital One credit card...no annual fee...no foreign transaction fee...and a cash back program....various cards to pick from depending on whether you want cash back, reward points, your credit rating, etc. I've got one of their Mastercards (the card I referred to that pays 2% or 1% cash back depending on what you buy...at most Thai stores like Lotus and Big C I get 2% cash back...also set 2% cash back on fuel buys for my SUV) and one of their Visa cards which pays 1.5% cash back. The 2% cash back MasterCard is no longer available to new members (but I still get the 2% cash back since I had the card about 2 years...gets used about every other day somewhere here in Bangkok)....and I got the Visa card just a few months ago as a backup and selected use depending on what I buy since it pays a 1.5% cash back on everything where my MasterCard mostly pays 2% but only 1% on some things like hardware store/HomePro transactions, restaurant transactions, medical/hospital bills, etc.. I only use Capital One's credit cards; I don't have a bank account with them where they also offer a no foreign transaction fee debit card.

Is it possible for non-US residents and non citizens to get this capital one credit card ?

I seriously doubt it.

[pomchop]

the united explorer card from chase visa just recently dropped their foreign exchange fee as they got a ton of complaints from customers citing that the no annual fee capital one doesn't charge the fee so why should a TRAVEL card for united charge a 95 annual fee PLUS a foreign exchange fee...sometimes complaining and taking your biz elsewhere can impact bank fees....

[William C F Pierce]

The cheapest way to do currency conversion is to do it annually instead of monthly. ( if you can afford it ). A total fee of 3% works to be 0.25% per month if using a wire transfer.

If you feel safe carrying a large amount of cash. You are better off by about 8% if you change it at a money shop like SK in Chiang Mai their rate is always 0.5% better than any

main stream bank [ This not a bank or a bureau-de-change just a money exchange shop ]. 8% is how much banks sting you for on the exchange rate, before they send you your

money with there fee added on top. I always bring as much cash as possible to SK and then put it in my Thai bank account. Bank are only in business to make money for themselves.

[Pib]

The cheapest way to do currency conversion is to do it annually instead of monthly. ( if you can afford it ). A total fee of 3% works to be 0.25% per month if using a wire transfer.

If you feel safe carrying a large amount of cash. You are better off by about 8% if you change it at a money shop like SK in Chiang Mai their rate is always 0.5% better than any

main stream bank [ This not a bank or a bureau-de-change just a money exchange shop ]. 8% is how much banks sting you for on the exchange rate, before they send you your

money with there fee added on top. I always bring as much cash as possible to SK and then put it in my Thai bank account. Bank are only in business to make money for themselves.

8%????!!!!!! How in the world do you come up with 8%?

[skippero]

Boy, it is hard to figure out what is the best way. Can anyone tell me what is the best way to transfer $5000 to Thailand.

It sounds like that I get pretty screwed if I leave it in my US bank and use their Debit card here in Thailand.

Is there anyway to get those funds here without getting screwed by both the US and Thai banks?

Thanks for any help!

[movsrus]

The easiest and cheapest way I have found to transfer money from the US to Thailand is by opening a savings account at Bangkok Bank then using the ACH transfer from my bank in the US to the Bangkok Bank in New York. It takes a day or so for the money to show up in my Chiang Mai account but I get the advertised rates from their web site and neither my US bank nor the Bangkok Bank in NYC charge me any fees.

[hawker9000]

Any credit card when used in a currency other than the one it is issued in, attracts a fee, which varies from one country and one bank to another.

Not so. I have a credit card from Capital One bank in the US that charges no foreign exchange fee. I use it for non-US purchases both online and in person.

Concur with this. It's the major reason I got this particular card: very few cards don't charge the fee, or maybe I should say very few no-annual-fee cards. But note, it's the No Hassle Rewards VISA. There are other Capital One VISA cards which DO charge the usual foreign exchange fee (I believe some of their other cards may provide better miles as well). I transfer funds to my K-Bank account before I travel and pay (to the best of my knowledge) minimal fees: my brokerage charges nothing and the intermediary charges something on the order of about 0.5%. I'm not sure what Kasikorn takes out on the receiving end, but I do the math on each transaction and have so far found that it can't be much if anything (i.e., allowing for the intermediary's 0.5%, the baht I end up with in my account just about reflects that day's posted buying exchange rate, which of course reflects some spread). From the US, buying baht in the amounts I buy them, I'm not sure there are any dramatically better deals out there right now.

[yoshiwara]

As much as possible I try to pay with local cards to avoid such fees

except that in Thailand (and not only Thailand) when purchasing items many retailers will make an additional charge for using a CC.

[Pib]

The easiest and cheapest way I have found to transfer money from the US to Thailand is by opening a savings account at Bangkok Bank then using the ACH transfer from my bank in the US to the Bangkok Bank in New York. It takes a day or so for the money to show up in my Chiang Mai account but I get the advertised rates from their web site and neither my US bank nor the Bangkok Bank in NYC charge me any fees.

Incorrect on Bangkok Bank NY not charging you any fees. Can't speak to your U.S. bank but many banks do offer free ACH transfers...no Sending bank fee applied but no Sending bank fee does not mean Bangkok Bank (the receiving bank) did not apply fees along the way.

As the funds flow through the NY branch the following fee structure shown in the "Fees" heading at this Bangkok Bank webpage...or just take a look at the image below. At the webpage under the "Fees" heading notice it also says 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) is applied at the local Bangkok Bank.

Maybe you think there are no fees applied because you don't see any Bangkok Bank fees hitting your home country Sending bank or in the Bangkok Bank passbook....well, that because the NY branch takes its slice "as it flows thru them" and your local Bangkok Bank takes its slice "before" posting to your account passbook...and that NY branch fee is not reflected back to your Sending bank or Receiving bank accounts. Say for example your transfer $2000 via ACH...as it flows through the NY branch $5 is sliced off...$1995 arrives your local/in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch...they convert to Thai baht and then apply above mentioned 0.25% fee which would work out to the Bt200 minimum (approx. $5.50) and then they post the remaining amount to your account...fees happening along the way do not get posted...the only thing that gets posted is final, after fees applied amount. Actually around $10.50 in fees occurred...and unless you compare closely the amount originally sent and know the actual exchange rate used (which is normally the 1st update of the day on the posting date) a person could easy think no fees were applied since no fees applied in their account statements/passbook. Using ACH through Bangkok Bank is still a low cost way to transfer funds...significantly cheaper than SWIFT transfers...but it's not fee-free.

[movsrus]

Pib,

Thanks for the information. I went back and looked at my last two transfers via ACH from my US bank to Bangkok Bank. I used the historical exchange rate information from the Bangkok Bank web site to calculate the fees and found they are less than I had assumed. I transferred $1000 USD on 6/6/13 which was credited to my Thai account on 6/10/13. I should have gotten an exchange rate of 30.26 THB but instead got 30.15. A subsequent transfer of $2000 USD on 6/10/13 was credited to my account with an exchange rate of 30.66 whereas I calculate it should have been 30.67.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. It is not a significant amount of money but it does add up over time and you have made me aware of something that I had not known.

Thanks again.

[Pib]

Glad the info was helpful...I just wanted to make sure you and others knew there were fees and they don't appear on your sending bank account or your Bangkok Bank account/passbook. And I did make one math error in my post above where I said 200 baht was approx. $5.50...it's more like $6.50. Believe it or not as I was driving to Lotus my brain told me I made the error...funny how something like that will pop in your brain sometimes. Anyway, those $1000 and $2000 transfers were each costing you approx. $11.50 in Bangkok Bank fees...still cheap compared to a typical SWIFT fee.

Unless something has changed, if you have SMS Remittance Alert setup on your Bangkok Bank account the SMS will show the 200 baht fee...it shows it being subtracted from the total amount received....and at that time you will also notice the amount arriving is $5 smaller (or applicable fee amount based on the amount you are sending) than what it started off at. Cheers.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Pib