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American man killed in Krabi - son severely injured


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Those happy carefree smiling Thais eh?? land of murders smiles

Gee the drama queens are out in force.

Some drunks got in an alcohol fueled argument and therefore all Thais are sinister and this is the land of murders.

These two Americans could have as easily been beaten up and killed in the US, and given their reported behavior it's unlikely this was the first time for them to act like jerks in a bar.

The saintly, sober farangs, eh??

PEORIA, AZ - A Peoria man has been arrested on a murder charge after his friend died from injuries suffered in a "fake" bar fight.

MOREHEAD CITY, N.C. -

A man arrested in connection with a July 4th death outside a Morehead City bar made his first court appearance Tuesday morning.

Two men are being sought in connection with the beating death of an employee at Pats II Cocktails in South Redondo Beach.

STILLWATER, Minn. (WCCO) – The Washington County Attorney’s Office has charged a Cottage Grove man over the death of a Bayport man whom he assaulted in a bar fight.Police say 22-year-old Eric Richard punched the victim, 28-year-old Adam McCloud, in the head at least twice at Smalley’s Caribbean Barbecue & Pirate Bar in Stillwater.

Nice glasses

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Police Col. Boontawee Toraksa said Friday that three band members at a bar in the southern resort town of Ao Nang were arrested in the attack early Wednesday on Carter. He said they have been charged with causing death by physical attack, punishable by up to 15 years’ imprisonment.

Boontawee said a court granted bail Thursday to the man who allegedly stabbed Carter, Ratikorn Romin, 27, over police objections, while his band mates were ordered held.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20130802-thai-musician-accused-in-dallas-businessman-s-death-released-on-bail.ece

Man who stabbed Carter to death granted bail, but other band members still held? It seems Ratikorn knows somebody or has money.

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My interprfetation of the events is the father and son were having a good time on vacation singing, perhaps believing the TAT advertisments of the land of smiles, and got carried away in their exuberance. The band was shamed that the the father and son took back their tip believing that they were being cheated out of their singing time since the band wanted to take a break. The father was killed after exiting the bar and the son was beaten becasue of taking back the tip or other publicly shaming offense.

If my understanding of the events is accurate, what hole in Thai culture allows revenge for a shaming offense to escalate to murder so easily? In part, I believe these problems are caused between foreigners and Thais from a mixing of cultures that have conflicting societal and personal values. Thai values are understood within an insulated Thai society. However, when interacting with westerners who have developed an indivualized value system that integrates values from many cultures the Thais are lost. They have little ability to undestand others whose value system is not based on a desire to avoid shame at all cost. Similarly, westerners are not informed of the insulated nature of thai society and absence of multicultural understanding or tolerance for values and behaviors that are not Thai. This ignorance can lead to misunderstanding and violence.

Excellent post. It's probably too smart for many here who just want to bang out messages on their keyboards while downing a beer, but what you have said above is exactly the problem in my opinion. It is a meeting of cultures that doesn't understand one another.

The suspect the issues will continue and the murders will continue -- mostly Thais killing others who would never have suspected the Thai/s could become so quickly enraged over what the Westerner perceived as something very trivial.

There will be some high profile murders.

An author will write a book or a book previously written will get into the media -- and the perception of Thailand will be made for quite some time.

Most Westerners if they truly understood this type of Thai value would never come to Thailand. It wouldn't be worth the trouble.

What is this in the Krabi forum and not the main News Page? This is INTERNATIONAL news.

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Incidents like this are nothing to do with face. If a Thai boy loses face in front of a young, fit, obviously strong farang/Thai/Chinese, and he has no gun/knife/friends to support him then he will do what all cowardly Thai men do and sit there, shut up and do nothing, likely until; he goes somewhere else where he can find an easy target like his girlfriend or a handy dog to kick. This is the way they are brought up, i.e. no morals, spoilt by their equally morally corrupt parents.

I cannot relate at all to this sort of "culture" and that is why I don't have any Thai male friends, and probably why most expats don't either. I know all Thai men are not like this but obviously a lot are. A higher percentage than any other country I have ever been to, and these sorts of frequent, pathetic violent incidents support my opinion. If Thailand wanted to stamp this out, they could but unfortunately the people that should be enforcing this are the same as the criminals that kill farangs.

One post says it all.

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Incidents like this are nothing to do with face. If a Thai boy loses face in front of a young, fit, obviously strong farang/Thai/Chinese, and he has no gun/knife/friends to support him then he will do what all cowardly Thai men do and sit there, shut up and do nothing, likely until; he goes somewhere else where he can find an easy target like his girlfriend or a handy dog to kick. This is the way they are brought up, i.e. no morals, spoilt by their equally morally corrupt parents.

I cannot relate at all to this sort of "culture" and that is why I don't have any Thai male friends, and probably why most expats don't either. I know all Thai men are not like this but obviously a lot are. A higher percentage than any other country I have ever been to, and these sorts of frequent, pathetic violent incidents support my opinion. If Thailand wanted to stamp this out, they could but unfortunately the people that should be enforcing this are the same as the criminals that kill farangs.

One post says it all.

It says to me that the writer holds an unreasonable and rather ingnorant prejudice against Thai males. Or maybe he only has experience of certain parts of Thailand.

Sweeping generalisations are never very helpful.

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Incidents like this are nothing to do with face. If a Thai boy loses face in front of a young, fit, obviously strong farang/Thai/Chinese, and he has no gun/knife/friends to support him then he will do what all cowardly Thai men do and sit there, shut up and do nothing, likely until; he goes somewhere else where he can find an easy target like his girlfriend or a handy dog to kick. This is the way they are brought up, i.e. no morals, spoilt by their equally morally corrupt parents.

I cannot relate at all to this sort of "culture" and that is why I don't have any Thai male friends, and probably why most expats don't either. I know all Thai men are not like this but obviously a lot are. A higher percentage than any other country I have ever been to, and these sorts of frequent, pathetic violent incidents support my opinion. If Thailand wanted to stamp this out, they could but unfortunately the people that should be enforcing this are the same as the criminals that kill farangs.

One post says it all.

It says to me that the writer holds an unreasonable and rather ingnorant prejudice against Thai males. Or maybe he only has experience of certain parts of Thailand.

Sweeping generalisations are never very helpful.

Based on 20 years in Thailand, and I have been to every square in of the country. Bang goes your theory.

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Incidents like this are nothing to do with face. If a Thai boy loses face in front of a young, fit, obviously strong farang/Thai/Chinese, and he has no gun/knife/friends to support him then he will do what all cowardly Thai men do and sit there, shut up and do nothing, likely until; he goes somewhere else where he can find an easy target like his girlfriend or a handy dog to kick. This is the way they are brought up, i.e. no morals, spoilt by their equally morally corrupt parents.

I cannot relate at all to this sort of "culture" and that is why I don't have any Thai male friends, and probably why most expats don't either. I know all Thai men are not like this but obviously a lot are. A higher percentage than any other country I have ever been to, and these sorts of frequent, pathetic violent incidents support my opinion. If Thailand wanted to stamp this out, they could but unfortunately the people that should be enforcing this are the same as the criminals that kill farangs.

One post says it all.

It says to me that the writer holds an unreasonable and rather ingnorant prejudice against Thai males. Or maybe he only has experience of certain parts of Thailand.

Sweeping generalisations are never very helpful.

Based on 20 years in Thailand, and I have been to every square in of the country. Bang goes your theory.

Maybe you should try a little harder to make some male Thai friends. I can assure you that your views are very stereotypical and prejudiced, and wrong.

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It says to me that the writer holds an unreasonable and rather ingnorant prejudice against Thai males. Or maybe he only has experience of certain parts of Thailand.

Sweeping generalisations are never very helpful.

Based on 20 years in Thailand, and I have been to every square in of the country. Bang goes your theory.

Maybe you should try a little harder to make some male Thai friends. I can assure you that your views are very stereotypical and prejudiced, and wrong.

some guys see all Thai males as the enemy and Antichrist. Must be the only-way they feel superior. I once had the pleasure of meeting a Dutch guy who was like that (no Dutch guy bashing here I am Dutch). I could only stand so much before i told him I had no interest in listening to his vile comments and denigrating remarks. I complain enough about Thailand myself but within reason some guys just take it all over the top and hate Thai guys because they are a threat to their relation or something like that.

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It says to me that the writer holds an unreasonable and rather ingnorant prejudice against Thai males. Or maybe he only has experience of certain parts of Thailand.

Sweeping generalisations are never very helpful.

Based on 20 years in Thailand, and I have been to every square in of the country. Bang goes your theory.

Maybe you should try a little harder to make some male Thai friends. I can assure you that your views are very stereotypical and prejudiced, and wrong.

some guys see all Thai males as the enemy and Antichrist. Must be the only-way they feel superior. I once had the pleasure of meeting a Dutch guy who was like that (no Dutch guy bashing here I am Dutch). I could only stand so much before i told him I had no interest in listening to his vile comments and denigrating remarks. I complain enough about Thailand myself but within reason some guys just take it all over the top and hate Thai guys because they are a threat to their relation or something like that.

And, God forbid, there are even foreign women and gay guys that have relationships witn Thai males. How do they survive? cool.png

Edited by brewsterbudgen
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I lived in Thailand for a while and i saw many foreigners be not respectful to Thai people.

Also most of foreigners like to be drunk and often it become fight and bigger problems.

So yes someone died is too much but a fight that end with someone die is not the first i heard.

I think before judge someone we must wait for get more information about what really happened and hope a solution can be find for those kind of problems.

I don't like to go in place with many tourists in Thailand because they like to be drunk and can act stupid.

Also Thai people can think wrong about foreigners, so there is effort to be done from both sides.

Regarding drunken behaviour, maybe, but you're going to have an increasingly harder time avoiding foreigners no matter where you go in Thailand. Foreigners are literally everywhere and the TAT wants to ensure even more come. I have been to many Nakorn nowheres and even there you'll find some foreigners, usually elderly men, albeit small in number, but they're there. Maybe you should go to China if you just want to get lost in a "sea" of locals given vast areas of the country have never seen even one foreigner before.

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Refuse to pay a buck fifty cab fare and throw a paper cup at a taxi driver (allegedly) and get hacked up by a machete wielding cab driver. Help break up a bar fight and later get shot by the jackass involved in the fight. Refuse to stop singing and knock a tip box over and get stabbed to death in the stomach. Isn't their something a bit wrong with this picture?

Killing tourists and expats seems to solution for any "loss of face" nowadays. Has it always been this way or does it seem to be escalating?

If I had it to do over again, I really reconsider my decision to move here. But I've invested too much time, money, and have extended (Thai) family that I support...can't bail now. This is a dangerous place to live and to visit.

My condolences to the Carter family. I am very sorry for your loss.

Correct me if I am wrong but the opening story doesn't indicate that he was killed for knocking over the tip box. He apparently died (RIP) during a 2nd altercation where he has confronted the musicians outside the venue (I presume whilst they were taking a break) pushing one over and sitting on his chest which caused the Thai to have problems breathing. People can actually die from this, commonly called Asphyxia. The thai has apparently grabbed an object within arms reach and unfortunately it has pierced his stomach.

I am only commenting on the OP and not saying what is right or wrong. Given the story alone the Thai would have a decent argument for self defence in court. A decent barrister would argue that his client was being deprived of oxygen and feared that he was going to die if he didn't get the guy off his chest and he used reasonable force and did not intend to kill the victim. I don't know how big the thai or the tourist was but if the tourist was a much larger person this would go in favour of his argument. There is nothing to suggest that the Thai was armed with any type of weapon prior to being confronted by the tourist.

So now we know at least part of the real story. I always knew that something (actually a LOT of things) were amiss in the original story. Simply knocking over a tip box or even shouting abuse at Thais won't get you killed or even injured. It will simply earn you disrespect. Clearly now, we know that the American guy provoked this attack by becoming violent towards the Thai musician in question, thus causing him to retaliate probably out of self-defense. In any case, he didn't deserve to die, but perhaps once we hear the testimony from the alleged killer, we will probably find out that he was trying to fight off his attacker but didn't try to kill him.

Of course the American guy shouldn't have been killed but after reading this and a couple of other posts that I have not quoted here because I don't want to search through 13 pages of posts to find the right quote but instead I'll say this - the real story paints a very different picture of what appeared to happen at first.

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I have been living in Thailand for five years now and my experience tells me Kurnell is spot on! sms

Incidents like this are nothing to do with face. If a Thai boy loses face in front of a young, fit, obviously strong farang/Thai/Chinese, and he has no gun/knife/friends to support him then he will do what all cowardly Thai men do and sit there, shut up and do nothing, likely until; he goes somewhere else where he can find an easy target like his girlfriend or a handy dog to kick. This is the way they are brought up, i.e. no morals, spoilt by their equally morally corrupt parents.

I cannot relate at all to this sort of "culture" and that is why I don't have any Thai male friends, and probably why most expats don't either. I know all Thai men are not like this but obviously a lot are. A higher percentage than any other country I have ever been to, and these sorts of frequent, pathetic violent incidents support my opinion. If Thailand wanted to stamp this out, they could but unfortunately the people that should be enforcing this are the same as the criminals that kill farangs.

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Robblok, have you ever had a male Thai-friend that did not end up in money passing from you to him (or his friends) in someway? Before you answer I can tell you I haven´t.


It says to me that the writer holds an unreasonable and rather ingnorant prejudice against Thai males. Or maybe he only has experience of certain parts of Thailand.

Sweeping generalisations are never very helpful.
Based on 20 years in Thailand, and I have been to every square in of the country. Bang goes your theory.

Maybe you should try a little harder to make some male Thai friends. I can assure you that your views are very stereotypical and prejudiced, and wrong.

some guys see all Thai males as the enemy and Antichrist. Must be the only-way they feel superior. I once had the pleasure of meeting a Dutch guy who was like that (no Dutch guy bashing here I am Dutch). I could only stand so much before i told him I had no interest in listening to his vile comments and denigrating remarks. I complain enough about Thailand myself but within reason some guys just take it all over the top and hate Thai guys because they are a threat to their relation or something like that.

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I have been living in Thailand for five years now and my experience tells me Kurnell is spot on! sms

Incidents like this are nothing to do with face. If a Thai boy loses face in front of a young, fit, obviously strong farang/Thai/Chinese, and he has no gun/knife/friends to support him then he will do what all cowardly Thai men do and sit there, shut up and do nothing, likely until; he goes somewhere else where he can find an easy target like his girlfriend or a handy dog to kick. This is the way they are brought up, i.e. no morals, spoilt by their equally morally corrupt parents.

I cannot relate at all to this sort of "culture" and that is why I don't have any Thai male friends, and probably why most expats don't either. I know all Thai men are not like this but obviously a lot are. A higher percentage than any other country I have ever been to, and these sorts of frequent, pathetic violent incidents support my opinion. If Thailand wanted to stamp this out, they could but unfortunately the people that should be enforcing this are the same as the criminals that kill farangs.

Then why live here, maybe because you can't get girls easy anywhere else ?

Seriously if I had such a problem with Thai males or everything in Thailand I would be gone.

I certainly have my complaints about Thailand, its corruption, lack of quality and driving style. But i got a lot more thing to counter that.

You and Kurnell remind me of that Dutch guy who could not stop talking trash about Thai guys denigrating them all while he was an old shriveled guy with little accomplishments himself. Only thing he came for were the Thai girls as they were different, guess the difference was he could have sex with them.

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I have been living in Thailand for five years now and my experience tells me Kurnell is spot on! sms

Incidents like this are nothing to do with face. If a Thai boy loses face in front of a young, fit, obviously strong farang/Thai/Chinese, and he has no gun/knife/friends to support him then he will do what all cowardly Thai men do and sit there, shut up and do nothing, likely until; he goes somewhere else where he can find an easy target like his girlfriend or a handy dog to kick. This is the way they are brought up, i.e. no morals, spoilt by their equally morally corrupt parents.

I cannot relate at all to this sort of "culture" and that is why I don't have any Thai male friends, and probably why most expats don't either. I know all Thai men are not like this but obviously a lot are. A higher percentage than any other country I have ever been to, and these sorts of frequent, pathetic violent incidents support my opinion. If Thailand wanted to stamp this out, they could but unfortunately the people that should be enforcing this are the same as the criminals that kill farangs.

Then why live here, maybe because you can't get girls easy anywhere else ?

Seriously if I had such a problem with Thai males or everything in Thailand I would be gone.

I certainly have my complaints about Thailand, its corruption, lack of quality and driving style. But i got a lot more thing to counter that.

You and Kurnell remind me of that Dutch guy who could not stop talking trash about Thai guys denigrating them all while he was an old shriveled guy with little accomplishments himself. Only thing he came for were the Thai girls as they were different, guess the difference was he could have sex with them.

I live here for the salary sunshine, and the cost of living. I don't mix with Thai males, didn't you read my post??? Why do I need to give up a huge salary just because I have an opinion about Thai males?? By all means mix with Thai boys if it works for you. <deleted> blokes like you always have to pull out that old chestnut "if you don't like it go home". I like it here. I don't get along with Thai blokes get it?? You can borrow my dictionary if you are still struggling with the concept.

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I have been living in Thailand for five years now and my experience tells me Kurnell is spot on! sms

Incidents like this are nothing to do with face. If a Thai boy loses face in front of a young, fit, obviously strong farang/Thai/Chinese, and he has no gun/knife/friends to support him then he will do what all cowardly Thai men do and sit there, shut up and do nothing, likely until; he goes somewhere else where he can find an easy target like his girlfriend or a handy dog to kick. This is the way they are brought up, i.e. no morals, spoilt by their equally morally corrupt parents.

I cannot relate at all to this sort of "culture" and that is why I don't have any Thai male friends, and probably why most expats don't either. I know all Thai men are not like this but obviously a lot are. A higher percentage than any other country I have ever been to, and these sorts of frequent, pathetic violent incidents support my opinion. If Thailand wanted to stamp this out, they could but unfortunately the people that should be enforcing this are the same as the criminals that kill farangs.

Then why live here, maybe because you can't get girls easy anywhere else ?

Seriously if I had such a problem with Thai males or everything in Thailand I would be gone.

I certainly have my complaints about Thailand, its corruption, lack of quality and driving style. But i got a lot more thing to counter that.

You and Kurnell remind me of that Dutch guy who could not stop talking trash about Thai guys denigrating them all while he was an old shriveled guy with little accomplishments himself. Only thing he came for were the Thai girls as they were different, guess the difference was he could have sex with them.

I live here for the salary sunshine, and the cost of living. I don't mix with Thai males, didn't you read my post??? Why do I need to give up a huge salary just because I have an opinion about Thai males?? By all means mix with Thai boys if it works for you. <deleted> blokes like you always have to pull out that old chestnut "if you don't like it go home". I like it here. I don't get along with Thai blokes get it?? You can borrow my dictionary if you are still struggling with the concept.

No need to denigrate them at all point mr "anaconda" that kind of remarks give me a great insight in how you think. Blokes like me almost never pull the old chestnut if you dont like it leave because i almost hate it as much as you. But someone that demeans the complete male population of the country he lives in and tars them with the same brush is in my book totally nuts.

We all have our complaints about Thailand read my posts and you will find enough of them, but I am just not as bigoted as you. What you stated about ALL thai males was so bad its plain crazy. Remember guys like Abisith are also Thai males we are not talking only motorcycle taxi guys. I find it unbelievable to make such a comment.

Edit.. sorry later you get back to part of your comment stating its a lot.. but you started out with all.

Low education low class idiots in any country are like pack hounds.. you will find those where you came from and where I came from.

Edited by robblok
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Based on 20 years in Thailand, and I have been to every square in of the country. Bang goes your theory.

Maybe you should try a little harder to make some male Thai friends. I can assure you that your views are very stereotypical and prejudiced, and wrong.

Well Kurnell doesn't seem to want to make Thai male friends and that is his choice. No one can force him to. And I don't think he is alone - few foreigners seem to associate extensively with Thai males.

Incidentally, despite my fluent Thai and everything, many Thai males are a weird bunch and are not easy to befriend. Thailand has more gay men than anywhere else in the world (not that there's anything wrong with that) but it's difficult being straight and having close friends that are gay due to the vast differences in lifestyles, opinions and all. Some estimates suggest 1 in 4 Thai men in Bangkok are gay, although I would say it's probably closer to 1 in 2. Nevertheless, I have a couple of Thai male friends, but we aren't that close - for the most part there is very little common ground and even though these men I know are straight, they don't do the same sort of macho things that men back home or in other countries do. In Vietnam and China most of my local friends are male, but those countries are more "masculine" than Thailand anyway. Perhaps this helps to explain the situation regarding Thai men and foreign men relationships somewhat.

And of course this helps to explain what some posters have mentioned as the "not happy to lose face" mentality that results in local men often going crazy when insulted etc. However, despite all this I am still a firm believer that most people in Thailand are good people that would only flip out if they are being physically provoked - I just can't believe that they would attack or kill someone for saying something bad about their mother - it really has to be a physical attack of some sort which in the case of this story appears to have been the case.

Edited by Tomtomtom69
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Based on 20 years in Thailand, and I have been to every square in of the country. Bang goes your theory.

Maybe you should try a little harder to make some male Thai friends. I can assure you that your views are very stereotypical and prejudiced, and wrong.

Well Kurnell doesn't seem to want to make Thai male friends and that is his choice. No one can force him to. And I don't think he is alone - few foreigners seem to associate extensively with Thai males.

Incidentally, despite my fluent Thai and everything, many Thai males are a weird bunch and are not easy to befriend. Thailand has more gay men than anywhere else in the world (not that there's anything wrong with that) but it's difficult being straight and having close friends that are gay due to the vast differences in lifestyles, opinions and all. Some estimates suggest 1 in 4 Thai men in Bangkok are gay, although I would say it's probably closer to 1 in 2. Nevertheless, I have a couple of Thai male friends, but we aren't that close - for the most part there is very little common ground and even though these men I know are straight, they don't do the same sort of macho things that men back home or in other countries do. In Vietnam and China most of my local friends are male, but those countries are more "masculine" than Thailand anyway. Perhaps this helps to explain the situation regarding Thai men and foreign men relationships somewhat.

And of course this helps to explain what some posters have mentioned as the "not happy to lose face" mentality that results in local men often going crazy when insulted etc. However, despite all this I am still a firm believer that most people in Thailand are good people that would only flip out if they are being physically provoked - I just can't believe that they would attack or kill someone for saying something bad about their mother - it really has to be a physical attack of some sort which in the case of this story appears to have been the case.

It is his good right not to have Thai friends, anyone should be able to choose the friends he likes. I was more going about how he denigrated all Thai guys in a real bad way. Later he comes back to that a bit but I was already angry about that not having read the second part good (yes I do make mistakes too). Anyway was great fishing with those guys they brought me to places where I else never was able to go to. About fishing we could talk as I mastered that part in Thai but still so many things i could not say. Anyway they never asked for more money then they asked their other friends (like sharing the fuel for a car on a fishing trip). They were appalled about the dual pricing at one fishing lake and begged them to let me in for Thai price. There are plenty of good Thais but communication and our upbringing does make it harder to have them as friends. But to see them all as savages is the other end.

Dont forget Thais themselves warn people for MC taxi drivers and such.. Thais are not a homogeneous group.

I have some Thai friends but I am still not good enough in Thai to have in depth conversation. But it is hard to find Thais with the same interests and background as me. That has nothing to do with them being Thai but just education and upbringing. Same goes with foreigners got foreign friends but none that likes exactly what I like but in general we have more of a shared background and communication is easier.

Anyway back to the topic on hand, in my opinion the Americans were at least partly to blame, but the Thais just way overdid it and I hope they get punished for it. But murder it was not.

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Anyway back to the topic on hand, in my opinion the Americans were at least partly to blame, but the Thais just way overdid it and I hope they get punished for it. But murder it was not.

I would disagree. There's not enough known about what exactly happened and most of which is being told is tainted as its mostly coming from the accused who have every reason to lie.

If, as stated earlier, the band waited outside the venue in order for revenge on the Americans, I would say murder is a possibility.

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Based on 20 years in Thailand, and I have been to every square in of the country. Bang goes your theory.

Maybe you should try a little harder to make some male Thai friends. I can assure you that your views are very stereotypical and prejudiced, and wrong.

Well Kurnell doesn't seem to want to make Thai male friends and that is his choice. No one can force him to. And I don't think he is alone - few foreigners seem to associate extensively with Thai males.

Incidentally, despite my fluent Thai and everything, many Thai males are a weird bunch and are not easy to befriend. Thailand has more gay men than anywhere else in the world (not that there's anything wrong with that) but it's difficult being straight and having close friends that are gay due to the vast differences in lifestyles, opinions and all. Some estimates suggest 1 in 4 Thai men in Bangkok are gay, although I would say it's probably closer to 1 in 2. Nevertheless, I have a couple of Thai male friends, but we aren't that close - for the most part there is very little common ground and even though these men I know are straight, they don't do the same sort of macho things that men back home or in other countries do. In Vietnam and China most of my local friends are male, but those countries are more "masculine" than Thailand anyway. Perhaps this helps to explain the situation regarding Thai men and foreign men relationships somewhat.

And of course this helps to explain what some posters have mentioned as the "not happy to lose face" mentality that results in local men often going crazy when insulted etc. However, despite all this I am still a firm believer that most people in Thailand are good people that would only flip out if they are being physically provoked - I just can't believe that they would attack or kill someone for saying something bad about their mother - it really has to be a physical attack of some sort which in the case of this story appears to have been the case.

It is his good right not to have Thai friends, anyone should be able to choose the friends he likes. I was more going about how he denigrated all Thai guys in a real bad way. Later he comes back to that a bit but I was already angry about that not having read the second part good (yes I do make mistakes too). Anyway was great fishing with those guys they brought me to places where I else never was able to go to. About fishing we could talk as I mastered that part in Thai but still so many things i could not say. Anyway they never asked for more money then they asked their other friends (like sharing the fuel for a car on a fishing trip). They were appalled about the dual pricing at one fishing lake and begged them to let me in for Thai price. There are plenty of good Thais but communication and our upbringing does make it harder to have them as friends. But to see them all as savages is the other end.

Dont forget Thais themselves warn people for MC taxi drivers and such.. Thais are not a homogeneous group.

I have some Thai friends but I am still not good enough in Thai to have in depth conversation. But it is hard to find Thais with the same interests and background as me. That has nothing to do with them being Thai but just education and upbringing. Same goes with foreigners got foreign friends but none that likes exactly what I like but in general we have more of a shared background and communication is easier.

Anyway back to the topic on hand, in my opinion the Americans were at least partly to blame, but the Thais just way overdid it and I hope they get punished for it. But murder it was not.

Now there's dual pricing when you go fishing at a lake? Where was this? What else can they come up with to get an extra buck out of foreigners? The lamest one that I read about recently was some "coffee shop" in Nana or somewhere nearby that charges foreigners a measly 10 Baht more for a cup of coffee. Just when I thought that dual pricing was limited to national parks, some temples, museums etc. but this is just way over the top.

Yes you are absolutely right I believe the Americans did react a bit over the top at first, but at no point should that have been translated to murder - well, manslaughter actually given I don't think what the Thai musicians did was premeditated. I hope that this story can be used as an example of how not to react when things don't go well whilst on holiday in LOS or just overseas in general.

Also after reading that the guy gave a 1000 Baht tip I was appalled but I also thought to myself: "no wonder he tried to take it back, such a large amount of money". Giving a 1000 Baht tip is an example of just throwing money around - who gives tips large enough to feed a poor family in a developing country for 2 weeks anyway? That's just absolutely ridiculous. Lengthy periods spent living in China after a stint living in America and I'm now used to giving absolutely no tips at all most places I frequent...but that's fine because Thailand is not a tipping culture anyway. It's over tipping tourists that ruin it. However, I'm more than happy to do things the local way, for example in India most services require some baksheesh, i.e. a small monetary tip so things actually get done, but it's usually only 10-20 Rupees never a ridiculous amount like 2000 or 5000 except if the favor fits into the category of bribery.

Edited by Tomtomtom69
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