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American man killed in Krabi - son severely injured


webfact

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I find it ridiculous how so many posters in this forum routinely take something like this and turn it into a 'Thai vs. farang' thing. This is a case of drunk people (note: people, not Thai or farang) getting involved in a stupid bar fight that escelated to a point where someone was tragically killed. I worked in the bar business for 10 years and have seen similar incidents happen many times; 99% of the time they have nothing to do with race and everything to do with boozy aggression. They usually don't end up with someone getting killed but they very well can - and do - anywhere in the world. Incredible: a bar fight breaks out and someone gets killed - let's blame it all on Thai society!

Great post. It's sad how many Thai bashers love to leap on tragedies like this.

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Hate to tell you this guys but this happens a lot in the USA. Go to some road house bar in the middle of nowhere with rednecks and bikers and see what happens. You better not look at anyone the wrong way or walk in as a stranger. Being from Texas where there is omly 1 bar every 50 miles I have seen many guys stabbed, dragged behind pickups and the like and some killed. The local law doesn't care or will take the time to investigate.

Great, you're talking about "locals" . . . but how many "tourists" get killed in this way over there?

Maybe that's because the 'tourists' in the US don't behave like drunken aggressive idiots like the 'tourists' in Thailand so often do?..

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A sharp response from blunt tools. This is a case where the offenders should be hammered for life to prove to the world that Thailand is serious about protecting tourists and ensure that Thailand uphold its' reputation for"Thainess" and as one of the worlds most exciting places to holiday. No bail, no mercy, respect the hand that feeds you.

unfortunatly,your in dreamland,not thailand......respect the hand that feeds you.mmmmmmmmm

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Bold font removed, please stop posting using bold font.
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Hate to tell you this guys but this happens a lot in the USA. Go to some road house bar in the middle of nowhere with rednecks and bikers and see what happens. You better not look at anyone the wrong way or walk in as a stranger. Being from Texas where there is omly 1 bar every 50 miles I have seen many guys stabbed, dragged behind pickups and the like and some killed. The local law doesn't care or will take the time to investigate.

Great, you're talking about "locals" . . . but how many "tourists" get killed in this way over there?

Maybe that's because the 'tourists' in the US don't behave like drunken aggressive idiots like the 'tourists' in Thailand so often do?..

I would think far more tourists are randomly mugged and stabbed or shot in western countries. In Thailand most deaths occur as a result of a misunderstanding or a fight.

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First of all, what was the manager thinking? Many tourists get out of hand on vacation here. It would seem proper to have a cellphone number handy for some assistance in handling situations that go awry, especially at a karaoke bar that caters to both locals and tourists. If no bouncer or security personnel are employed, then call the police. I do not see what difference it made if the customers were American, European or Australian. I see cases of bad behavior regardless of Nationality. The situation should have been diffused early on. There was one time when I had to be escorted out of a bar (after several free complimentary "shots". I realized I was wrong and the manager was wise to eject me. No harm done and no harm taken. When somebody gets too drunk that things get uncomfortable in the bar for others, then it is time to stop serving and call a driver. If nothing else works, a firm hand from the manager/staff can prevent a bad chain of events

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What are the odds that there happened to be a knife on the ground that was in reach of the Thai guy being grappled? That my friends, sounds like a lie to me!

He claims he was grappled and "grabbed an object" (i assume the knife).

Tell me how often knives just lay on the ground outside bars? That has to be one in a billion chance :D

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As someone who is regular there and was there ,this article says only a small part of story. I'm not blaming nobody,i am just being objective.

Article says only about not wanting to get off the stage and flipping the tip box. It didn't mention 2 drunk americans disrespecting/swearing/insulting people/bend,putting a microphone in pants and at last just before leaving bar -spitting in a face of a thai girl which was girlfriend of bend musician that was singing.

A story has always two sides. Of course they didn't deserve to die but their really bad behaviour was reason someone did die. When someone come to holiday and then behave like that i don't even want to think how then they behave in their home country.

If what you say is true (and I have no reason to doubt your research), one wonders how long these two would have lasted in any bar in any country in the world, be they tourists or locals.

No justification for a killing, but surely a recipe for disaster.

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Also all this talk about Thais being insane, murderous and crazy is not true. It's extremely rare that shit goes this far in Thailand. I mean, Americans come here and get stupid every night for weeks, millions of them, and this happens what, once or twice a year? That's nothing compared to other countries.

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As someone who is regular there and was there ,this article says only a small part of story. I'm not blaming nobody,i am just being objective.

Article says only about not wanting to get off the stage and flipping the tip box. It didn't mention 2 drunk americans disrespecting/swearing/insulting people/bend,putting a microphone in pants and at last just before leaving bar -spitting in a face of a thai girl which was girlfriend of bend musician that was singing.

A story has always two sides. Of course they didn't deserve to die but their really bad behaviour was reason someone did die. When someone come to holiday and then behave like that i don't even want to think how then they behave in their home country.

If what you say is true (and I have no reason to doubt your research), one wonders how long these two would have lasted in any bar in any country in the world, be they tourists or locals.

No justification for a killing, but surely a recipe for disaster.

I agree,they probably have problems all around but it only takes 1 time to encounter someone who is hot tempered and will not take that easily. The best thing to avoid problems in thailand is to talking politely,it really isn't that hard.Once you raised your voice and start to angry one is just making it worst.

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Is there a source which documents all the foreign murder? If it was started today and we took a look back in a year's time, I'm sure it would already be quite a substantial compilation.. Of course the embassies and consulates of respected nations know this already, so why aren't they doing more to protect the citizens of their homelands?

There is no law against stupid,and you can't protect against it,especially when grog is involved.Who are these secret respected nations who care for some of us so much.I'd like to know if mine was on your list.

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As someone who is regular there and was there ,this article says only a small part of story. I'm not blaming nobody,i am just being objective.

Article says only about not wanting to get off the stage and flipping the tip box. It didn't mention 2 drunk americans disrespecting/swearing/insulting people/bend,putting a microphone in pants and at last just before leaving bar -spitting in a face of a thai girl which was girlfriend of bend musician that was singing.

A story has always two sides. Of course they didn't deserve to die but their really bad behaviour was reason someone did die. When someone come to holiday and then behave like that i don't even want to think how then they behave in their home country.

They wouldn't be game to do it "home",as possibly same result,a thrashing at the least.

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There's a dead man, for sure, but the word 'murder' isn't appropriate unless malice aforethought can be proved. Those who took this life can be so charged but the word 'murder' is used way wrong way too often.

Murder. Illegal killing.

I agree the word is often used too loosely but it needn't be as rigidly defined as you claim. (Have you never heard of second degree murder, for example?)

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Here's my take. Dad and son somehow cause the band to lose face, most probably by doing something so innocuous it didn't register at the time. Band waits outside for the pair to leave and desperate for revenge, attacks, thinking 3 on 2 should be okay as it's only a dad and son. As most Thai males can't fight for shit without back-up or being tooled-up, they started to get a beating so resort to knifing the dad and then trying to beat the son to death. Band then make up BS excuses (tip-box, didn't stop singing etc.) in order to try to minimize their guilt, similar to that murdering taxi driver in BKK recently. ThaiVisa Thai-wannabes take the BS excuses as fact, even inventing stuff like spitting in a girl's face. Then they try to put the blame on the Americans by excusing the Thai thugs behaviour with the usual 'cultural differences' chestnut.

And yes, some westerners behave boorishly or aggressively when drunk, but often the Thai response (beatings, knifings, murder etc.) is totally over the top and out of proportion to the perceived original 'offence'.

Even if the 'reports' of the Americans bad behavior turns out to be true, it didn't warrant a death sentence.

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In an entertainment context, there should be no excuse for killing any person - nor for raping them for that matter.

There are a lot of commenters who are blaming the Thais for ganging up, killing one person and severely injuring his son for the most feeble reasons. Even if you get into a punch up you should not expect to be killed.

Of course this happens in every country, not just here in Thailand, but in most civilised countries there is an effective police force that actually engages some effort in tackling crime, an effective justice system that actually process cases in a fair manner and with a view to justice being served - especially in criminal cases. Also in those countries you have a population who are allowed to be far more vocal about injustices than here and who have a higher group sense of morality.

Unfortunately so many Thai people are so anesthetised to crime and the uselessness of the police force, the rampant corruption and criminals running away or getting off scott free at some point on the journey through the abominably weak justice system, that crime - and violent crime is becoming rapidly worse and more senseless and society more and more ambivalent towards the issue. That is the problem here.

Whatever; the fact that something wrong happens somewhere else is absolutely no excuse for putting up with it here. Many of us have children here and want them to grow up in a society that is getting safer and better - not more violent and corrupt as appears is the current trend.

An excellent post and I largely agree with it - with the possible exception of the claim that the prevalence of violent crime rapidly growing...that may be so, but I'm not at all sure it is. Thailand has ALWAYS been a violent place. I knew that (partly from firsthand experience and a LOT of anecdotal evidence) even when I chose to settle here and loved the place (as opposed to just mostly liking it, as I do now).

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As someone who is regular there and was there ,this article says only a small part of story. I'm not blaming nobody,i am just being objective.

Article says only about not wanting to get off the stage and flipping the tip box. It didn't mention 2 drunk americans disrespecting/swearing/insulting people/bend,putting a microphone in pants and at last just before leaving bar -spitting in a face of a thai girl which was girlfriend of bend musician that was singing.

A story has always two sides. Of course they didn't deserve to die but their really bad behaviour was reason someone did die. When someone come to holiday and then behave like that i don't even want to think how then they behave in their home country.

If you are right then they were asking for it (of course not for getting killed) This kind of behavior would land them in trouble everywhere. That of course does not excuse the Thais and they should be punished as killing someone is way over the top.

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Tragic outcome - when people behave like annoying , aggressive jerks ( ie by not getting off a stage), you have to figure that eventually they will get pay back ( but nonetheless, death is too much!)

With a knife ? Come on. rolleyes.gif

ANYONE can be removed from a stage without resorting to possible death. coffee1.gif

Perhaps you didn't read carefully: according to the story, the Americans were not injured in the act of removing them from the stage. The fact that they allegedly refused to leave the stage apparently led in part to an eventual fight in which the injury and killing took place.

I guess that justifies killing an American tourist and beating his son in front of him. I read it just fine and it still disgusts me that a Faralang having a good time singing and maybe getting out of hand by not leaving the stage, deserved to be killed outside the bar by Thai musician standards. Is this the Thainess that the PM is promoting? Bet you also punishment or jail time is not given to the killers and they will still be singing in the band in Krabi waiting for the next Farang to piss them off.

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Mr Ratikorn told police that he was knocked to the ground and could not breathe because one of the Americans was grappling with him. He spotted a metal object nearby and used it as a weapon.

ok so the band gets upset and goes outside... tip box knocked over.... jeez they could have asked the yanks for a big tip...maybe got more in a tip than they get playing 3 sets in the bar? or did the band sit outside stewing over the lack of respect from the bar patrons... the yanks leave the bar and who started the fight? doesn't say.... but yes self defense if you are getting beat up is OK...(killing in the name of?) but did he just happen to grab any metal object and stab the yank in the stomach or maybe he had his own metal object (knife) on him... anyway - it could still be self defense...big falung guy beating up a small thai guy...anyway - face was lost in the bar... fight started OUTSIDE the bar by who? ya'll heard of the 12 smiles of Thailand right?

taxi driver samuri swords to death a yank on sukumvit over a 51 bt cab fare... stabbed to death outside a bar for singing to long on stage with the band and getting into a knock down fight outside the bar ? yah self defense comes into play but this is thailand... could have happened in the usa as well I guess

come on.. you absolutely cannot get into a fight here... drunk or sober... taxi, tuk tuk drivers, common criminals and now thai muscian...lose of face was enough to boil the pot and then someone was too drunk to not diffuse the sitchiation down...you have to be AWARE living and holidaying here... yes big problems... tourists getting whacked every day over any little thing... this is not la la kids if you can't keep your wits.. i have been here 12 years and nothing real bad has happened... but I hope I know when to smile and make things right if I do go over the line... like singing too long on stage.... gawd...sad story and even sadder to read it

steve

Rangsit

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I find it ridiculous how so many posters in this forum routinely take something like this and turn it into a 'Thai vs. farang' thing. This is a case of drunk people (note: people, not Thai or farang) getting involved in a stupid bar fight that escelated to a point where someone was tragically killed. I worked in the bar business for 10 years and have seen similar incidents happen many times; 99% of the time they have nothing to do with race and everything to do with boozy aggression. They usually don't end up with someone getting killed but they very well can - and do - anywhere in the world. Incredible: a bar fight breaks out and someone gets killed - let's blame it all on Thai society!

mmmmm . . . can't speak about the USA or other countries, but I don't remember that many people getting stabbed, beaten or killed in any bar fights in the UK.

And as we are in Thailand, and it involved Thai + foreigners, surely it is indeed a Thai vs Farang thing? Yes, it's stupid, yes, it involved alcohol, but do you not think that (in most instances) it's the Thai's generally that take things too far and overreact to most things with violence in these situations?

(and before you say it, yes I'm generalising and oversimplifying things, but I think it's appropriate here

It might be a 'Thai vs farang thing', but in a different way than you mean. I've lived in Asia for 14 years, and I've lost count of the number of times I've seen farangs acting in a manner that they wouldn't in their own countries. Bulls in China shops. Farangs getting up on stage while the band is playing either to have photos taken, to do some sort of exhibitionist dance, or to try to sing... these are classic examples. Basically acting like they own the place and can do what they want. Just last week, a poster here linked to a write-up about an Aussie guy named 'Shark' who chose to live in Thailand (Pattaya) because he can do whatever he wants and knows he will get away with it ... he said this was not the case in Australia.

Now, no-one deserves to die for this sort of obnoxious behaviour, but I can see how it would lead to violence... and once that starts, anything can happen. Especially when you have larger farangs tussling with smaller Thais who may feel they need to use a weapon to even the odds.

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Here's my take. Dad and son somehow cause the band to lose face, most probably by doing something so innocuous it didn't register at the time. Band waits outside for the pair to leave and desperate for revenge, attacks, thinking 3 on 2 should be okay as it's only a dad and son. As most Thai males can't fight for shit without back-up or being tooled-up, they started to get a beating so resort to knifing the dad and then trying to beat the son to death. Band then make up BS excuses (tip-box, didn't stop singing etc.) in order to try to minimize their guilt, similar to that murdering taxi driver in BKK recently. ThaiVisa Thai-wannabes take the BS excuses as fact, even inventing stuff like spitting in a girl's face. Then they try to put the blame on the Americans by excusing the Thai thugs behaviour with the usual 'cultural differences' chestnut.

And yes, some westerners behave boorishly or aggressively when drunk, but often the Thai response (beatings, knifings, murder etc.) is totally over the top and out of proportion to the perceived original 'offence'.

Even if the 'reports' of the Americans bad behavior turns out to be true, it didn't warrant a death sentence.

Take your take back to dreamland.

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Tragic.

But this happens anywhere.

E.g Kieran "psycho" stapleton from manchester who shot dead a random Indian student a couple years ago on christmas eve in manchester, uk.

Thats just one on the spot I can think of

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Talking to staff from Longhorn earlier, they tell me the band member in question has stabbed people before. It was no case of self defence. Premeditated. The guy is a violent psycho and has plenty of form. The staff I talked with could not understand why the owner hadn't gotten rid of him, they said he was a time bomb.

This is quite a different take from the #101 poster who seems to be claiming to have been a witness to what occurred....

At any rate, I've read thru five pages of posts and don't think I've seen anything from the surviving son giving his side of things... The Thais' version is well represented in the OP post... How about the injured son???

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