American man killed in Krabi - son severely injured

[shrimpythailand]

As someone who is regular there and was there ,this article says only a small part of story. I'm not blaming nobody,i am just being objective.

Article says only about not wanting to get off the stage and flipping the tip box. It didn't mention 2 drunk americans disrespecting/swearing/insulting people/bend,putting a microphone in pants and at last just before leaving bar -spitting in a face of a thai girl which was girlfriend of bend musician that was singing.

A story has always two sides. Of course they didn't deserve to die but their really bad behaviour was reason someone did die. When someone come to holiday and then behave like that i don't even want to think how then they behave in their home country.

Wow - well I just read this after I posted a comment....whoa... ok

[philliphn]

Hate to tell you this guys but this happens a lot in the USA. Go to some road house bar in the middle of nowhere with rednecks and bikers and see what happens. You better not look at anyone the wrong way or walk in as a stranger. Being from Texas where there is omly 1 bar every 50 miles I have seen many guys stabbed, dragged behind pickups and the like and some killed. The local law doesn't care or will take the time to investigate.

I have 33 and a half years working in the Criminal Justice System in the USA. What you say is not true! Law enforcement does care about these type of violent actions. But, yes as you say they will take the time to investigate. Apparently you as a citizen does not care about such things. Since you have witnessed this violence all the time. I ask how many times did you come forward as a witness?

Edited July 31, 2013 by philliphn

[SteeleJoe]

rbrooks wrote:

SteeleJoe wrote:

transam wrote:

ExpatJ wrote:

Tragic outcome - when people behave like annoying , aggressive jerks ( ie by not getting off a stage), you have to figure that eventually they will get pay back ( but nonetheless, death is too much!)

With a knife ? Come on.

ANYONE can be removed from a stage without resorting to possible death.

Perhaps you didn't read carefully: according to the story, the Americans were not injured in the act of removing them from the stage. The fact that they allegedly refused to leave the stage apparently led in part to an eventual fight in which the injury and killing took place.

I guess that justifies killing an American tourist and beating his son in front of him. I read it just fine and it still disgusts me that a Faralang having a good time singing and maybe getting out of hand by not leaving the stage, deserved to be killed outside the bar by Thai musician standards. Is this the Thainess that the PM is promoting? Bet you also punishment or jail time is not given to the killers and they will still be singing in the band in Krabi waiting for the next Farang to piss them off.

Part of that I never said. Presumably you wrote this:

"I guess that justifies killing an American tourist and beating his son in front of him. I read it just fine and it still disgusts me that a Faralang having a good time singing and maybe getting out of hand by not leaving the stage, deserved to be killed outside the bar by Thai musician standards. Is this the Thainess that the PM is promoting? Bet you also punishment or jail time is not given to the killers and they will still be singing in the band in Krabi waiting for the next Farang to piss them off. "

And all I have to say is that that is a really stupid and ugly straw man: who suggested anything so absurd and obscene as the killing was justified (let alone that it was justified for reasons in my post)? You should be embarrassed.

And by the way, no one has claimed - not even the killers - the Americans deserved to be killed for "having a good time singing and maybe getting out of hand by not leaving the stage".

Calm down. You might be able to make a more worthwhile contribution.

Edited July 31, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[louse1953]

Mr Ratikorn told police that he was knocked to the ground and could not breathe because one of the Americans was grappling with him. He spotted a metal object nearby and used it as a weapon.

ok so the band gets upset and goes outside... tip box knocked over.... jeez they could have asked the yanks for a big tip...maybe got more in a tip than they get playing 3 sets in the bar? or did the band sit outside stewing over the lack of respect from the bar patrons... the yanks leave the bar and who started the fight? doesn't say.... but yes self defense if you are getting beat up is OK...(killing in the name of?) but did he just happen to grab any metal object and stab the yank in the stomach or maybe he had his own metal object (knife) on him... anyway - it could still be self defense...big falung guy beating up a small thai guy...anyway - face was lost in the bar... fight started OUTSIDE the bar by who? ya'll heard of the 12 smiles of Thailand right?

taxi driver samuri swords to death a yank on sukumvit over a 51 bt cab fare... stabbed to death outside a bar for singing to long on stage with the band and getting into a knock down fight outside the bar ? yah self defense comes into play but this is thailand... could have happened in the usa as well I guess

come on.. you absolutely cannot get into a fight here... drunk or sober... taxi, tuk tuk drivers, common criminals and now thai muscian...lose of face was enough to boil the pot and then someone was too drunk to not diffuse the sitchiation down...you have to be AWARE living and holidaying here... yes big problems... tourists getting whacked every day over any little thing... this is not la la kids if you can't keep your wits.. i have been here 12 years and nothing real bad has happened... but I hope I know when to smile and make things right if I do go over the line... like singing too long on stage.... gawd...sad story and even sadder to read it

steve

Rangsit

Your on to it Rangsit,i've been getting pissed here for 38 years,and you got know when to fold em.No loss of face on my behalf as i have none,and truth be known i may have been at fault.Still drinking in the same bars,but a lot less these days,but live to tell the tale.

[Jingthing]

The word is out:

Thailand has come under scrutiny in recent months over its treatment of foreign tourists, who are a mainstay of the economy.

Tourists have registered a series of complaints with authorities over their treatment ranging from jet ski scams, drink spiking, robbery, assault and even police extortion.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/31/us-tourist-killed-in-thailand-for-refusing-to-stop-singing/#ixzz2acywrGOd

[thaigold]

Get real guys. When I was in my twenties I went in to a Mexican bar in Los Angeles and got a little too big in the macho department. I ended up being lucky to get out of the place alive. I've still got the scars to prove it. Alcohol; cultural void; and little macho = blood. Elementary, my dear Watson.

[Salapoo]

Crazy stuff.

... again.

Wonder what tomorrow's Thai news will be:

I've no doubt it will include deadly violence with extreme weapons by Thais against a Westerner or Westerners for something that in almost any other country would be laughed about.

[Dandan81]

This article is about 5% of the truth but then again, I don't expect anyone to really care as you'll make your judgements without any real information about the Thai people. My girlfriend used to sing in the bar and knows the "killer" and his friends. The truth is this.

The American put 1000thb in the tip box as a payment to sing. The band were at the end of their set and there are, believe it or not, strict rules about bars playing live music after a certain time. The musicians, in fear of loosing their badly paid jobs, adhere to the rules vigorously. The American refused to stop singing when he was asked to, kicked the tip box over in protest because he couldn't just pay to do what he pleased (I've seen this a lot). The American then persisted with insults about Thai people which is always going to enrage any Thai person who was merely trying to clock-off. The argument then spilled out onto the street outside where the American then became violent against the musicians. The American then tried to strangle the Thai. The Thai, in self defence, reached for a metal rod and stabbed the American, which is when all hell broke loose.

I am not condoning this terrible thing at all. But what I am intolerant of is people making judgments based on this utterly uninformative piece of journalism at the top of this page. The kind of journalism that tarnishes a beautiful country filled with beautiful people just to appeal to racists! I'm sick of it. This American was not killed because he wouldn't stop singing. He was killed because he disrespected the Thai people and then threw his weight around. It's no justification for killing but it's massively different from the reason you seem to believe.

[stephenterry]

Too much speculation. And no comment about the allegation that the band member had stabbed others before. Which leads me to speculate that the Americans picked the wrong person to confront.

Yesterday, my Thai wife's son and nephew (in their 20's) were refused admission to Bamboo bar in Pattaya even though we were in a family unit together. I was told by a sympathetic staff lady that Thai men cause trouble...

[peterbkk9]

Thais show their true color when something goes wrong.

It is all smiles when they need money from you but when anything goes wrong you are on your own.

There is no respect, no consideration. It is all fake.

Am I exaggerating? Am I?????

[SteeleJoe]

Crazy stuff.

... again.

Wonder what tomorrow's Thai news will be:

I've no doubt it will include deadly violence with extreme weapons by Thais against a Westerner or Westerners for something that in almost any other country would be laughed about.

Think you might be exaggerating just a wee bit?

Your post seems like a rather stark example of a lot of the sentiment behind many posts: the notion that this is violence directed towards foreigners and the outrage that idea inspires.

Far more violent crime is committed by Thais against Thais. People are often not only unaware of that but wouldn't care anyway...

[Colabamumbai]

Our condolences to the son and family.

[SMSinBangkok]

Thai males are banned from many farang-oriented night clubs in Bangkok for the same reason.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Chalard]

Here's my take. Dad and son somehow cause the band to lose face, most probably by doing something so innocuous it didn't register at the time. Band waits outside for the pair to leave and desperate for revenge, attacks, thinking 3 on 2 should be okay as it's only a dad and son. As most Thai males can't fight for shit without back-up or being tooled-up, they started to get a beating so resort to knifing the dad and then trying to beat the son to death. Band then make up BS excuses (tip-box, didn't stop singing etc.) in order to try to minimize their guilt, similar to that murdering taxi driver in BKK recently. ThaiVisa Thai-wannabes take the BS excuses as fact, even inventing stuff like spitting in a girl's face. Then they try to put the blame on the Americans by excusing the Thai thugs behaviour with the usual 'cultural differences' chestnut.

And yes, some westerners behave boorishly or aggressively when drunk, but often the Thai response (beatings, knifings, murder etc.) is totally over the top and out of proportion to the perceived original 'offence'.

Even if the 'reports' of the Americans bad behavior turns out to be true, it didn't warrant a death sentence.

Read post 101

[mogoso]

Excessive use of Alcohol is problematic wherever you abide, problems develop. Even at the village Wat while trying to enjoy a bit of music and dance, buffoons will get liquored up and be the fools. To me we go early and leave early works the best. The drunks all wanna be my friend and I don't need the company that I find odious boring and distasteful.

[metisdead]

Posts with messed up quotes which ended up attributing the wrong content to a different member have been removed.

[gaucho]

thailand is cwaaaazeeee place walk away ok no in second thoughts run ..ok its not worth it cheers ...too many wombats

[Dandan81]

As someone who is regular there and was there ,this article says only a small part of story. I'm not blaming nobody,i am just being objective.

Article says only about not wanting to get off the stage and flipping the tip box. It didn't mention 2 drunk americans disrespecting/swearing/insulting people/bend,putting a microphone in pants and at last just before leaving bar -spitting in a face of a thai girl which was girlfriend of bend musician that was singing.

A story has always two sides. Of course they didn't deserve to die but their really bad behaviour was reason someone did die. When someone come to holiday and then behave like that i don't even want to think how then they behave in their home country.

This is what should at the top of this page. Not the biased <deleted> that everybody sees! My girlfriend knows this band as she used to sing with a different band at the Longhorn Saloon. Her friends who were there have said that the Americans were behaving like real <deleted>. If there is a lesson to be learnt here it's this: Don't be an <deleted> in Thailand because you might get stabbed. If everyone is aware of this, Thailand might rid itself of this kind of disrespectful and arrogant tourists! If this was a general rule in the world, I think we'd see a marked decline in the amount of general assholish behavior.

[aechzen]

look like thai people dont like american singers !! dont mess with musicians !!

[Bobinyangdor]

Posts with messed up quotes which ended up attributing the wrong content to a different member have been removed.

Thank you.. so how did that happen?

[aechzen]

we dont like american farmer music

[Miami Bob]

Also, I live in Krabi and as I remember the Long Horn is a rock n rock bar not a karaoke as some posters are assuming.

Edited July 31, 2013 by LivinginKata
off topic part removed

[metisdead]

Posts with messed up quotes which ended up attributing the wrong content to a different member have been removed.

Thank you.. so how did that happen?

Likely somebody trying to remove some quoted posts when they've reached the maximum number of quoted posts allowed to be posted, and the wrong quote headers are "assigned" to the wrong content.

[rolfmajestic]

I see many stupid thing caused by alcohol, this is one of them!

[louse1953]

My interprfetation of the events is the father and son were having a good time on vacation singing, perhaps believing the TAT advertisments of the land of smiles, and got carried away in their exuberance. The band was shamed that the the father and son took back their tip believing that they were being cheated out of their singing time since the band wanted to take a break. The father was killed after exiting the bar and the son was beaten becasue of taking back the tip or other publicly shaming offense.

If my understanding of the events is accurate, what hole in Thai culture allows revenge for a shaming offense to escalate to murder so easily? In part, I believe these problems are caused between foreigners and Thais from a mixing of cultures that have conflicting societal and personal values. Thai values are understood within an insulated Thai society. However, when interacting with westerners who have developed an indivualized value system that integrates values from many cultures the Thais are lost. They have little ability to undestand others whose value system is not based on a desire to avoid shame at all cost. Similarly, westerners are not informed of the insulated nature of thai society and absence of multicultural understanding or tolerance for values and behaviors that are not Thai. This ignorance can lead to misunderstanding and violence.

We are in their country and should try and understand where they are coming from,instead of pushing their buttons all the time.It is not up to them to understand us.If we want to get on we should try intergrating a bit.

[robblok]

This article is about 5% of the truth but then again, I don't expect anyone to really care as you'll make your judgements without any real information about the Thai people. My girlfriend used to sing in the bar and knows the "killer" and his friends. The truth is this.

The American put 1000thb in the tip box as a payment to sing. The band were at the end of their set and there are, believe it or not, strict rules about bars playing live music after a certain time. The musicians, in fear of loosing their badly paid jobs, adhere to the rules vigorously. The American refused to stop singing when he was asked to, kicked the tip box over in protest because he couldn't just pay to do what he pleased (I've seen this a lot). The American then persisted with insults about Thai people which is always going to enrage any Thai person who was merely trying to clock-off. The argument then spilled out onto the street outside where the American then became violent against the musicians. The American then tried to strangle the Thai. The Thai, in self defence, reached for a metal rod and stabbed the American, which is when all hell broke loose.

I am not condoning this terrible thing at all. But what I am intolerant of is people making judgments based on this utterly uninformative piece of journalism at the top of this page. The kind of journalism that tarnishes a beautiful country filled with beautiful people just to appeal to racists! I'm sick of it. This American was not killed because he wouldn't stop singing. He was killed because he disrespected the Thai people and then threw his weight around. It's no justification for killing but it's massively different from the reason you seem to believe.

That is two members saying it was totally different as in the article.. I admit i thought the Thais were to blame but the way it looks its self defense.

[brewsterbudgen]

Here's my take. Dad and son somehow cause the band to lose face, most probably by doing something so innocuous it didn't register at the time. Band waits outside for the pair to leave and desperate for revenge, attacks, thinking 3 on 2 should be okay as it's only a dad and son. As most Thai males can't fight for shit without back-up or being tooled-up, they started to get a beating so resort to knifing the dad and then trying to beat the son to death. Band then make up BS excuses (tip-box, didn't stop singing etc.) in order to try to minimize their guilt, similar to that murdering taxi driver in BKK recently. ThaiVisa Thai-wannabes take the BS excuses as fact, even inventing stuff like spitting in a girl's face. Then they try to put the blame on the Americans by excusing the Thai thugs behaviour with the usual 'cultural differences' chestnut.

And yes, some westerners behave boorishly or aggressively when drunk, but often the Thai response (beatings, knifings, murder etc.) is totally over the top and out of proportion to the perceived original 'offence'.

Even if the 'reports' of the Americans bad behavior turns out to be true, it didn't warrant a death sentence.

Read post 101

It would appear to have been deleted.

[DA3NDORPHIN3]

Here's my take. Dad and son somehow cause the band to lose face, most probably by doing something so innocuous it didn't register at the time. Band waits outside for the pair to leave and desperate for revenge, attacks, thinking 3 on 2 should be okay as it's only a dad and son. As most Thai males can't fight for shit without back-up or being tooled-up, they started to get a beating so resort to knifing the dad and then trying to beat the son to death. Band then make up BS excuses (tip-box, didn't stop singing etc.) in order to try to minimize their guilt, similar to that murdering taxi driver in BKK recently. ThaiVisa Thai-wannabes take the BS excuses as fact, even inventing stuff like spitting in a girl's face. Then they try to put the blame on the Americans by excusing the Thai thugs behaviour with the usual 'cultural differences' chestnut.

And yes, some westerners behave boorishly or aggressively when drunk, but often the Thai response (beatings, knifings, murder etc.) is totally over the top and out of proportion to the perceived original 'offence'.

Even if the 'reports' of the Americans bad behavior turns out to be true, it didn't warrant a death sentence.

Honestly saying ,after i saw how did they behave i wished those 2 drunk guys would get beaten up.Unfortunately,one of them died.But i'm not lying , i really wished they would get beaten.

And people like you are the the worst posters here on TV.You just wait to something like this happen(or every other story) just so you can bash all thai people. If you think one can come here and behave aggressively,shouting at people then you shouldn't even come.Try to do that in other country,it will be with same consequences.

I lived 3 years in Pattaya and believe me 99% of all fights started because farang started behave aggressively first. Tell me one story that you know where thai WITHOUT ANY REASON attacked foreigners?(except robbers and similar).Yes there are,but very rarely.

[transam]

Here's my take. Dad and son somehow cause the band to lose face, most probably by doing something so innocuous it didn't register at the time. Band waits outside for the pair to leave and desperate for revenge, attacks, thinking 3 on 2 should be okay as it's only a dad and son. As most Thai males can't fight for shit without back-up or being tooled-up, they started to get a beating so resort to knifing the dad and then trying to beat the son to death. Band then make up BS excuses (tip-box, didn't stop singing etc.) in order to try to minimize their guilt, similar to that murdering taxi driver in BKK recently. ThaiVisa Thai-wannabes take the BS excuses as fact, even inventing stuff like spitting in a girl's face. Then they try to put the blame on the Americans by excusing the Thai thugs behaviour with the usual 'cultural differences' chestnut.

And yes, some westerners behave boorishly or aggressively when drunk, but often the Thai response (beatings, knifings, murder etc.) is totally over the top and out of proportion to the perceived original 'offence'.

Even if the 'reports' of the Americans bad behavior turns out to be true, it didn't warrant a death sentence.

Honestly saying ,after i saw how did they behave i wished those 2 drunk guys would get beaten up.Unfortunately,one of them died.But i'm not lying , i really wished they would get beaten.

And people like you are the the worst posters here on TV.You just wait to something like this happen(or every other story) just so you can bash all thai people. If you think one can come here and behave aggressively,shouting at people then you shouldn't even come.Try to do that in other country,it will be with same consequences.

I lived 3 years in Pattaya and believe me 99% of all fights started because farang started behave aggressively first. Tell me one story that you know where thai WITHOUT ANY REASON attacked foreigners?(except robbers and similar).Yes there are,but very rarely.

So tell me, why are these bars opened ? I will post why they open, my thought, to earn money FROM holidaymakers or resident farangs, and of course locals if they have the cash. Opening an establishment such as this comes with the drawbacks. If you want to make money from booze then one must accept what goes with booze, and we all know what that is. A guy gets cut up cos he's a bit pissed and dies, very sad, yet folk here talk as though folk must not get drunk in a Thai bar and accept the knife. Nooooooooooooooooo .

[harrry]

Thainess Promotion: You can and will be stabbed to death for having too much fun and singing karaoke.

Then if you survive being stabbed to death you will be arrested for singing without a work permit and jailed and deported.