Nok Air's plane skids off runway in Trang Province

[BwindiBoy]

You get the pilots you pay for.

How much for a pilot that saves 142+ lives??

[Thormaturge]

So a pilot decided his passengers' lives were more important than his career prospects.

I will continue to fly Nok and trust the pilot is not punished for his decision.

[NanLaew]

You get the pilots you pay for.

I disagree, some are on OK pay, THAI anyway. Nok I do not know, but Thai Air Asia is peanuts.

I have never seen a country so guarded against any experience from foreign crew. Maybe N Korea ?

Yes, if they weren't so restrictive, they could hire the pilot responsible for this.

Indonesian plane crashes into cow and skids off runway

"The pilot, Iwan Permadi, told the national news agency Antara that he could smell "burning meat".

He said he initially thought there were dogs in front of the plane, "but it turned out there were three cows wandering in the middle of the runway".

I guess anyone who reckons cows look like dogs has some serious depth of field perception... like the pilot of the OTHER Lion Air plane that dropped off the end of the runway.

"In April this year, at least 22 people needed hospital treatment when a Lion Air plane on a domestic flight missed the runway at Bali's Denpasar airport and came down in the sea."

I reckon I will take my chances with the Thai pilots.

Edited August 8, 2013 by NanLaew

[mortiboy]

Nok air does not have a 747 .... they are flying 737's ...... sigh

<note - I have fixed the error in the OP - SVB>

BANGKOK, 7 Aug 2013, (NNT) - Nok Air's Boeing" 737 plane" bound for Bangkok's Don Mueang airport skidded off runway in Trang Province on Tuesday. Sigh!

[billd766]

"skid off" seems a difficult maneuver to achieve on a flat runway/taxiway (but if it can be done a Thai pilot will find a way)

He was trying to turn unto another runway at speed to increase his abort distance.

Sadly there is no other runway at Trang, just 08 and 26.

I only know that because I looked it up on Google Earth this morning.

[harrry]

Yes it is a lot clearer now. THe previous flight had had to orbit due to weather before landing. Apparently the aircraft did not skid off while turning to another runway as reported. The photos now released show the aircraft probably just veered off the runway at a fairly low speed near the end of its braking run. Probably just as the pilots were just taking that deep breath and saying to each other.."well thats another one we got away with".

[ginjag]

Trying to turn off a runway halfway down at some speed trying to abort ???? As said why not carry on with your breaking on the main runway when you have 40% of it left.

IF the short tarmac to the terminal was used then I would have thought -maybe--bad judgement by the pilot --- -error.

If he had reached the end of the runway and still at some spead he would have to try to turn off. Suppose we will have to wait for the official report on the incident---Ha Ha but rarely there is a follow up, not forgetting this is Thai Airways company---Government control ????

I might be mistaken, but since this is a USA manufactured aircraft, both Boeing and the NTSB will be part of the accident investigation team.

Understand that my friend BUT I was really putting a dig into a follow up on TVForum, usually never. WE get news to comment on, then when we would like to see any outcome-mums the word, on most subjects. News attracts sod the result.

[Cuban]

He said he initially thought there were dogs in front of the plane, "but it turned out there were three cows wandering in the middle of the runway".

I guess anyone who reckons cows look like dogs has some serious depth of field perception... like the pilot of the OTHER Lion Air plane that dropped off the end of the runway.

Where a sun heated runway distorts the view I can perceive how easy it would be to misidentify dogs for cows - does a plane have a horn fitted to warn straying cattle of it's approach? Thought not.

[harrry]

He said he initially thought there were dogs in front of the plane, "but it turned out there were three cows wandering in the middle of the runway".

I guess anyone who reckons cows look like dogs has some serious depth of field perception... like the pilot of the OTHER Lion Air plane that dropped off the end of the runway.

Where a sun heated runway distorts the view I can perceive how easy it would be to misidentify dogs for cows - does a plane have a horn fitted to warn straying cattle of it's approach? Thought not.

In jet operation I think the tower would be responsible for ensuring no animals. In Australia you often get animals like kangaroos on small country runways but these carry small aircraft and the roos usually move if they are buzzed.

[Archie Pelago]

In jet operation I think the tower would be responsible for ensuring no animals. In Australia you often get animals like kangaroos on small country runways but these carry small aircraft and the roos usually move if they are buzzed.

The kangaroos carry small aircraft?

[harrry]

In jet operation I think the tower would be responsible for ensuring no animals. In Australia you often get animals like kangaroos on small country runways but these carry small aircraft and the roos usually move if they are buzzed.

The kangaroos carry small aircraft?

Some are pretty big and they are strong.

[Archie Pelago]

In jet operation I think the tower would be responsible for ensuring no animals. In Australia you often get animals like kangaroos on small country runways but these carry small aircraft and the roos usually move if they are buzzed.

The kangaroos carry small aircraft?

Some are pretty big and they are strong.

Great comeback Harrry. Touche.

[lockman]

Hey if it's sunk in the sand the best way to get it up is lifting bags, and not everywhere has them, hence the stuff coming from Bangkok. I seriously doubt the ability of a crane to do much, as there aren't proper lifting points for that. So you get the bags, the proper temporary ramp matting, etc, raise the plane, and lower it back down then carefully tow it back on the cement surface. The thing you don't want to do is cause any further damage.

Edited August 8, 2013 by lockman

[F4UCorsair]

RVR, runway visual range, upon line up with the runway, if you cant see a certain distance on the runway, you don't go, V1 means the speed at which if you initiate an abort you will have sufficient distance to stop. Either these guys tried to take off in below operational condition and lost visual alignment with the runway then tried to stop or figured they couldn't stop and put in it the grass. The last check before V1 is distance and speed, if you don't have 100 knots say at the 2000 meter marker then abort. Apply full brakes until stop and maintain directional control or the auto brakes should apply by themselves with the selection of engine thrust reverse and spoilers. So why did they not maintain directional control ??

It would be nice if someone could proved the METAR for that time.

cgjtt, do you know anything about flying?

Does anybody posting on this topic know anything about flying?

I don't recall ever seeing such a collection of misinformed comment. Speculate by all means, but when you get into the realms of technical knowledge, you really need to know what you're talking about.

[buckdoff]

To clear up some points of comments made in this thread. I am not a pilot nor have no technical knowledge but this is the conditions and what happened from my point of view.

It was NOT raining at the time of the accident or at the very least it was very very light rain. It had rained very heavily about 10 minutes or so before departure from the terminal.

There is only one runway with no parallel taxiways at Trang airport just as the Google map shows.

The plane left the terminal and "hurried" down the runway I assume to try to make up for being a bit late. It then made or started to make a U-Turn at the end of the runway which is normal. However, power was applied while the aircraft was still turning and was not aligned at takeoff middle line. The aircraft kept turning and it seemed the wheels did not straighten until too late so it went off the runway at low speed.

Edited August 10, 2013 by buckdoff

[F4UCorsair]

To clear up some points of comments made in this thread. I am not a pilot nor have no technical knowledge but this is the conditions and what happened from my point of view.

It was NOT raining at the time of the accident or at the very least it was very very light rain. It had rained very heavily about 10 minutes or so before departure from the terminal.

There is only one runway with no parallel taxiways at Trang airport just as the Google map shows.

The plane left the terminal and "hurried" down the runway I assume to try to make up for being a bit late. It then made or started to make a U-Turn at the end of the runway which is normal. However, power was applied while the aircraft was still turning and was not aligned at takeoff middle line. The aircraft kept turning and it seemed the wheels did not straighten until too late so it went off the runway at low speed.

I'm only speculating too, but I find that scenario highly unlikely. To achieve that, the pilot would have had to firewall the throttles at the start of the turn, keep a boot full of rudder in, and fail to close the throttles or apply the brakes, probably both!!

I can't find any information on whether the runway is grooved or not, but that would be irrelevant if it was at low speed or heavy rain wasn't falling at the time anyway.

Does anybody know the actual position, relative to the runway, in which the aircraft sank to the axles?

As I said at the start of my post, I am only speculating also, but depending on the position of the bogged aircraft, I think it highly likely that the crew were taxiing too fast as they approached the turning point at the end of the runway where they veer left to make a right turn onto the center line, or that the take off was aborted, and they attempted to turn off onto a taxiway at a speed too great for a right angle turn (no high speed exits at Trang which go off the runway at about 30 degrees to the centerline).

The second scenario is most likely, based on what the Airport Director, Mr Tavorn, said, or is reported to have said, in post # 1, but some of the other things he is reported to have said make no sense, so......................??

Edited August 15, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[buckdoff]

Ummm, I'm not speculating, I was on board the plane.

I was sitting in seat A on the left hand side of the aircraft, a window seat so I had a good view when we made the U-Turn.

The plane didn't "slide" off the runway, it was going the way the the wheels were turned and simply went off the runway.

It was not going too fast when he made the U-Turn, but for some reason the wheels didn't turn back to straight when we were lined up on the center line. I'm assuming it had something to do with the abnormal amount of power that was applied before the plane was aligned with the center line on the runway.

The plane wound up like you see it in the pictures at an angle to the runway, One of the pictures shows the wing wheels tracks which plainly show it wasn't "sliding".

That's exactly how it happened, end of story.

Edited August 15, 2013 by buckdoff

[F4UCorsair]

Ummmm, what a shame you didn't enlighten us all much earlier and 4 pages of speculation could have been avoided!!

It's difficult to believe that even an inexperienced pilot could have put an aircraft in this position.

I'm intrigued by the pictures though. There seems to be tarmac at right angles to the runway immediately behind the aircraft??? It's at the wrong angle to be part of the turning node, and appears to be a taxiway.

Edited August 15, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[buckdoff]

Ummmm, what a shame you didn't enlighten us all much earlier and 4 pages of speculation could have been avoided!!

It's difficult to believe that even an inexperienced pilot could have put an aircraft in this position.

Sorry I didn't do it sooner but I was a bit frazzled and was hurrying to catch my plane travelling back to the states but I did post it the next morning after I arrived.

Believe what you may, i'm only relating my experience. Isn't it possible that there was a malfunction in the steering?

On a brighter note, the Nok Air and Trang airport staff handled the situation very nicely. Can't say the same for the miserable crowded van ride to Hat Yai to catch the next flight to Bangkok though, that was not fun.

Edited August 15, 2013 by buckdoff

[Tywais]

Certainly can toss any of the original topic post out the window then, nothing was correct in it.

[F4UCorsair]

Ummmm, what a shame you didn't enlighten us all much earlier and 4 pages of speculation could have been avoided!!

It's difficult to believe that even an inexperienced pilot could have put an aircraft in this position.

Sorry I didn't do it sooner but I was a bit frazzled and was hurrying to catch my plane travelling back to the states but I did post it the next morning after I arrived.

Believe what you may, i'm only relating my experience. Isn't it possible that there was a malfunction in the steering?

On a brighter note, the Nok Air and Trang airport staff handled the situation very nicely. Can't say the same for the miserable crowded van ride to Hat Yai to catch the next flight to Bangkok though, that was not fun.

It is possible the steering malfunctioned (only one steering system [unless the operator has ordered the 'alternate option', in which case there may be two] as opposed to three hydraulic, three electrics, etc) but if the pilot had closed the throttles, or applied the brakes, or both, it couldn't have escalated to where it did. The brakes can hold an aircraft stationary, even at full power.

The argument against a steering malfunction is that if the steering was locked at, say, 20 degrees off straight ahead, the aircraft would have continued turning and finished at right angles, or greater, to the runway, not just off a few degrees.

Are you able to sketch a pic, scan and post, of where the aircraft actually bogged? I can't figure it out from the pics early in the thread, with the strip of bitumen behind the aircraft which appears to come off the runway at right angles, creating confusion.

Quite right Tywais, noting in the statement from the airport director was correct, or very badly misreported, something for which the press are well noted.

Edited August 15, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[harrry]

See with our proving disbelief TV users evententually get to the correct answers......or at least more correct than the press.

[AloisAmrein]

What type of silly pilots are working with Nok Air?

[F4UCorsair]

buckdoff, are you able to post, or even send me, a sketch of where the aircraft finished relative to the runway. I can't figure out where it was from the pics I've seen, and I'm intrigued how this happened.

[buckdoff]

buckdoff, are you able to post, or even send me, a sketch of where the aircraft finished relative to the runway. I can't figure out where it was from the pics I've seen, and I'm intrigued how this happened.

I don't have much in the way of graphic skills and I tried using Paint but my hand wasn't steady enough to draw a reasonably straight line. I am at my daughter's house and I will be home to my desktop comp next week and I think I have an old Corel Draw program that I can do it with there, so please be patient.

[F4UCorsair]

Thanks. I look forward to that. it doesn't have to be a professional job, but I am really interested in your impression of the actual path of the aircraft, to where it was bogged.