Sak Yant (sacred Buddhist) tattoos?

[mccw]

Nobody need to "believe" or have "faith" ; the nice thing about all this is you have the method to find out for yourself, through diligent meditation.

Take the trip.

If you can't be bothered then best not to form a judgement one way or the other.

It's what the sailor must have felt like listening to people try and tell him the world is with out doubt certainly flat (because those people had never left their home village; or cave); while you already circumnavigated it.

No point to argue , just suggest they go and see for themselves.

But more often than not the reply is "No no ; I know what I know; i am quite happy here in my cave thank you very much"- "you crazy sailors with the tall tales- be off with ya" haha

Enjoy

[northernjohn]

Was there no mention in Grandjean's account of the mystical properties of Sak Yant?

From what he writes it sounds like tattooing was done for vanity and the ability to get a wife - and perhaps some prime poon-tang before marriage, and maybe afterwards a little on the side.

It's a well known fact that soldiers were often tattooed with Sak Yant to ward off bullets. It would be interesting to see how many farangs among the "true believers" would go before a firing squad to test the efficacy of their newly acquired bulletproof Sak Yants.

Good point... I was going to comment on that, but didn't want my post to ramble on too long.

Grandjean's sole purpose in coming to Chiang Mai was the mass conversion of the entire population of Lanna T'ai to Christianity. His mission was a conspicuous failure; as subsequent attempts down to the present day have been. Buddhism is too deeply ingrained here.

Any relationship between tattooing and mysticism he would have regarded as "heathenish practices" and dismissed without further investigation. He only had eyes to see the superficial aspect of it.

Ignorance and arrogance combined with an often nasty animus toward Buddhism have doomed missionary efforts from the beginning.

As far as the protective properties of Sak Yant are concerned, I'm not a believer myself, but I do believe - as NorthernJohn pointed out - in the placebo effect. To me, that is proof positive that mind has the power to influence matter. Albeit in ways that we don't understand, and may ultimately be beyond our comprehension.

Anyway, lighten up. This is Thailand... a pretty good place to be, especially this time of year.

While I am skeptical on the other hand I find it preposterous to walk into a could give a dam what it is tattoo parlor and expect to get a sacred tattoo. If you are into the sacred tattoo stuff the best you could get would be a copy. Nothing sacred about it.

[daoyai]

Nobody need to "believe" or have "faith" ; the nice thing about all this is you have the method to find out for yourself, through diligent meditation.

Take the trip.

If you can't be bothered then best not to form a judgement one way or the other.

It's what the sailor must have felt like listening to people try and tell him the world is with out doubt certainly flat (because those people had never left their home village; or cave); while you already circumnavigated it.

No point to argue , just suggest they go and see for themselves.

But more often than not the reply is "No no ; I know what I know; i am quite happy here in my cave thank you very much"- "you crazy sailors with the tall tales- be off with ya" haha

Enjoy

This is about faith and religious belief, if you are still talking about the "power" of sak yant. Since you compare this faith to belief in flat earth vs spherical earth, circumnaivigation is the scientific proof of the latter, there is no proof for sak yant power so that is an act of faith. Suggesting diligent meditation as proof is just more religiosity, not evidence based. Suggesting that skeptics are equivelent to closeminded "cave' dwellers is typical of arrogance often exibited by "true believers" of superstition.

[mccw]

Hi ; sorry you misunderstood.....,

No ; it's not about scientific evidence at all.

My story/ analogy is about personal experience. Ie having observed the reality of going around the earth for yourself.

If you are living in a cave and believe scientific evidence presented to you of the world being round, but never going around it yourself, then you are just switching your faith to faith in the word of scientists from religious or cultural flat earth dogma.

My point is you/ anyone can take the trip and experience the reality for yourself. The boat is there and the ticket is free.

Choosing to stay home at the cave is a choice; believing any words of others over direct experience is faith.

My analogy of the cave is reference to Plato's cave. The Buddhist have a similar analogy.

Nobody need to "believe" or have "faith" ; the nice thing about all this is you have the method to find out for yourself, through diligent meditation.

Take the trip.

If you can't be bothered then best not to form a judgement one way or the other.

It's what the sailor must have felt like listening to people try and tell him the world is with out doubt certainly flat (because those people had never left their home village; or cave); while you already circumnavigated it.

No point to argue , just suggest they go and see for themselves.

But more often than not the reply is "No no ; I know what I know; i am quite happy here in my cave thank you very much"- "you crazy sailors with the tall tales- be off with ya" haha

Enjoy

This is about faith and religious belief, if you are still talking about the "power" of sak yant. Since you compare this faith to belief in flat earth vs spherical earth, circumnaivigation is the scientific proof of the latter, there is no proof for sak yant power so that is an act of faith. Suggesting diligent meditation as proof is just more religiosity, not evidence based. Suggesting that skeptics are equivelent to closeminded "cave' dwellers is typical of arrogance often exibited by "true believers" of superstition.

[mccw]

"Do not believe anything

because it is said by an authority,

or if it is said to come from angels,

or from gods,

or from an inspired source.

Believe it only if you have explored it

in your own heart

and mind and body

and found it to be true.

Work out your own path,

through diligence."

~ Gautama Buddha

[Tokay]

I have allready 8 sak yant tattoos

1 in tattoo shop

3 by monks

4 by sak-yants

the best is arjan KOB in ayutthaya near the old floating market

And dont go to wat bang phra, the monks are tired to see farangs!!!

feel free to contact me by PM

You must be immortal.

[Gavin008]

Do you know where outside of Chiang Mai that you got the Sak Yant?

[Gavin008]

I spent four months in Chiang Mai and in Lisu villages in the mountains north west of Chiang Dao. After becoming friends with some Thais, I was offered to go with them to a monk outside of Chiang Mai who has been doing Sak Yant for about 16 years os so and has a great reputation with Thais there.

When we arrived there, I was the only westerner. There were several Thais receiving Sak Yant tattoos. The monk interviewed me through one of my Thai friends as an interpreter. Apparently he does not do everybody.

I was 62 when I was there last year, and never had a tattoo before. This monk uses Khem Sak. A brass rod in which he inserts double pointed sharp spikes. The ink is drawn up between the double points by Capillary action. I think the bamboo ones are called Mai Sak. I can't remember.

He did the Gao Yord nine peaks tattoo on my upper back, measuring first with a ruler and drawing lines in pen before beginning the actual tattoo. Then he started.... and it hurt. A couple of minutes in I thought to myself... "Maybe this was not such a good idea." But then I just zoned my mind out and simply let the pain continue and stayed absolutely still. Also I did not want to show any emotions while all those Thai men were watching me get this done.

There is also script lettering done with this tattoo... some form of Pali/Khmer maybe called Khom script..... not sure... prayers and blessing given by the monk accompany the tattoo.... you make offering.... the cost ? ? In my case... you offer whatever you think it is worth to you.....

There're are a few famous ones that do tattoos near Bangkok.... and now they have a reputation among Thais of being in it to make the big bucks... charging Farangs lots of money for simple Sak Yant. And you get to brag about who did your tattoo. I didn't want that. The monk that did mine is not in it to get rich... and he did fantastic artwork on me. Better than many others I have seen.

After getting my Gao Yord..... and going through the pain.... a couple days later I wanted more..... and returned to the monk twice more with my Thai friends ... I ended up with a total of nine sacred Sak Yant Yantra tattoos..... five across my back... and two on each arm...

My Thai friends had a party for me after the tattoos and temple visits.... and they told me... "Now you are Thai, wherever you go in the world. And someday you will return to Thailand and Chiang Mai. "

I caught no diseases from the experience...... perhaps all my vaccinations I got before I left Canada helped.......I don't know...

Now back in Canada... and planning on returning to Chiang Mai this coming year... four months there was not long enough...

Do you know where outside of Chiang Mai you got the Sak Yant?