I've gained 5kgs and want to lose it ASAP :(

[robblok]

My comments, never popular, but here goes:

The activity level is great. Well done.

Overall -- sounds like almost a starvation level of calories. I don't approve. It's like a crash diet. You won't be able to sustain this and the chances of backfiring are very high.

Breakfast -- I agree with the oatmeal suggestion. Very hard to get other kinds of healthy cereal grains in Thailand that aren't very expensive. Corn flakes of course already have sugar without adding extra sugar. Also I assume corn flakes have High Fructose Corn Syrup in them, an extremely unhealthy form of sugar. So yes if you can get oatmeal of some kind, and then add some pure HONEY. You don't mention milk. So you are adding milk to the flakes?

Lunch: I agree it sounds like it tastes like poo. Very BLAND poo. I suggest experimenting with ways of making your health promoting meals NOT taste like poo. Like ... SPICES. Chili and garlic for example are great for you. Boiled egg is good protein. Do you have access to canned tuna packed in water?

Dinner: Again, add spices. Rice. Nothing wrong with a starch with your meals but it sounds like you are doing some cooking. Can't you get some BROWN rice? If so, you can eat that with no regrets as it's great nutrition.

Weight loss levels -- yes you got the initial kick quick loss than many serial yoyo dieters get addicted to that kind of rush/high. Of course it won't last at that level especially with so little you want to lose in the first place. As I think you are almost starving yourself now, your metabolism will likely reset somewhat and start fighting your efforts.

My overall impression -- think about your long term more healthy and tasty diet for LIFE, no meals tasting like poo, don't bother with any kind of RUSH.

JT how do you know she is low in calories. You dont even count calories. Also don't forget she is a lady and probably a lot smaller as you so she needs a lot less calories. There is also no indication of how much these meals are I cant make an estimate and you can.. strange.

She starts with she is not starving herself, i think she would know best because else there is constant hunger.

[kirstymelb101]

The only alternative other than Cornflakes for brekky is rice of course.
And I assumed Cornflakes where in fact healthy.
What I read from the back of the cereal box, the nutritional value seemed good.
I'm surprised how little I actually know about nutriition.
Good thing I came here for advice

Yummy! The Quik Oats idea sounds delicious and is much healthier than Cornflakes.
To be honest, I've never actually eating Oats before. I'll definately add them on my list of groceries next time I'm in town.
I'll also need to by a cheap blender. Any special brand of Oats in particular you recommend?

Regarding Robblok's concern - Initially I only planned to stay in Isaan for a week during Songkran festival.
My Grandparents are getting very old now so I've decided to stay longer.
I support myself financially by teaching at Govt. school not far from my village. The pay is crappy, but enough to survive at least.
It takes some time to adapt to the lifestyle change and society here. But overall seeing my grandparents happy everyday puts a smile on my face

[poanoi]

My fave for oats is to eat them raw with apple butter/apfelmus, sliced banana and milk.

I think the dinner dish was perfect, corn flakes dont hold much nutrition really,

and in any case you'll need some fuel at the start of a day.

[chiang mai]

The only alternative other than Cornflakes for brekky is rice of course.

And I assumed Cornflakes where in fact healthy.

What I read from the back of the cereal box, the nutritional value seemed good.

I'm surprised how little I actually know about nutriition.

Good thing I came here for advice

Yummy! The Quik Oats idea sounds delicious and is much healthier than Cornflakes.

To be honest, I've never actually eating Oats before. I'll definately add them on my list of groceries next time I'm in town.

I'll also need to by a cheap blender. Any special brand of Oats in particular you recommend?

Regarding Robblok's concern - Initially I only planned to stay in Isaan for a week during Songkran festival.

My Grandparents are getting very old now so I've decided to stay longer.

I support myself financially by teaching at Govt. school not far from my village. The pay is crappy, but enough to survive at least.

It takes some time to adapt to the lifestyle change and society here. But overall seeing my grandparents happy everyday puts a smile on my face

My favorrite brand is Lowan's from Australia, a 1 kilo bag costs me about 170 baht and that lasts me for a month eating half a cup (dry weight) every day. If you can't find Lowan's then look for any Qucik Oats but check the label to make sure there's no added sugar or sodium - rolled oats and steel cut oats are equally as good but take longer to cook, if you can't find any, PM me and I'll ship you a bag by EMS!

EDIT: in case you get tempted, avoid Meusili unless you can find speciality brands (expensive) that don't have lots of sugar added, it sounds healthy but it's really not.

Edited August 25, 2013 by chiang mai

[robblok]

@krysty,

You could also get some cinnamon and put that over the oats.

[bigbamboo]

Not to burst your bubble but the first week it always goes fast as now your probably eating less carbs (holding less water and less stumach content) So it might be just one kg of fat that you lost.

But good work.

I am curious however how did you end up in a village ? sorry to pry

That's what Number Six always wanted to know too!

As for the diet I found when I first came to Thailand I put on weight due to almost everything being fried instead of baked as I was used to in England. Thais seem to regard ovens as some of WDU where food will just disappear once you put it inside!

I don't know your height and weight but if you exercise regularly without overdoing it and eat sensibly your body will find it's natural weight. I have been 80kg (1.83m) for years. If your BMI is around 21/22 you're fine.

[ongchart]

I am 50 years old and my weight now is almost the same as when I was 25. Many times during the last 10 years, since crossing 40, I had let myself gone crazy on booze and food. During those bingeing periods, my weight would gain 3-5kg, I had difficulty sitting comfortably in my pants, and I knew I had to stop those bad habits and get back into shape. Each time, I managed to lose the extra weight and bring my BMI down to below 24. These work for me but everyone is different so I hope some of the tips work for you:

1. No carbs (so kao niao is out) after 8pm

2. Don't stuff yourself till you fill like bursting - the rule of thumb is eat till only you are 80% full

3. No beers - I stop drinking beer for 1 month and I see a drop in weight

4. Exercise everyday- for me now it is mountain and road biking. I do it both in the gym and outdoors. Start in the gym if you can (out in Isaan this might be hard), to build up your fitness and get a feel of how much effort and what duration is needed to burn a certain amount of calories. It also gives you a feel of how fast/hard you need to peddle to achieve a certain heart rate. I normally set the program to 'random hill' as this forces me to work harder and as a result burn more calories for the same amount of time spent cycling on a zero incline route.

Outdoors, I do 1 hour of dirt track (and really muddy during this time) cycling over an undulating terrain. It is challenging and works both upper and lower body muscles. I believe this burns a lot more calories than in the gym if you are disciplined in keeping up the pace and really push yourself hard. On tarmac, I do 1-2 hours on varying routes.

5. Do static routines consisting of crunches, skipping, push-ups, leg raises etc. These do not directly burn much calories, but they develop overall muscle strengths which prevent injuries while cycling or running (or other sports)

My latest 'binge' brought my weight from 59kg to 62kg. I started the above routine 2 months ago, and now my weight is 58kg, BMI 20.

You can do it as long as you put your mind to it and be very disciplined. In the beginning it will be tough, but after 2 weeks, you will start to feel invigorated and raring to go each morning. This morning I was out of the house at 6.15am, after a 10 minute warm up and stretching. Believe me - it feels better than bingeing on a huge meal and alcohol!

[Jingthing]

JT how do you know she is low in calories. You dont even count calories. Also don't forget she is a lady and probably a lot smaller as you so she needs a lot less calories. There is also no indication of how much these meals are I cant make an estimate and you can.. strange.

She starts with she is not starving herself, i think she would know best because else there is constant hunger.

So strange indeed. I don't "know" 100 percent about anything based on what someone reports on the internet any more than anyone could. I can take clues and hints.

I am aware of the general calorie content of various foods through a lifetime of experience. That is not the same thing as becoming an obsessive compulsive actually counting each and every calorie every day. For example a can of water packed tuna is not high in calories compared to a German sausage that is 70 percent fat.

Anyway, my overall concern with the OP's tactic is her goal of losing this rather minor amount of weight ASAP. I think by doing so, which she has started to do, she runs a high risk of resetting her metabolism rate. So AFTER the crash plan, it would be natural to eat as before, as she has admitted her crash plan eating tastes like poo. The problem is if she eats as before not only is she likely to regain all the weight she lost quickly, but even more, because of the metabolism reset from the crash plan. Yes, based on the level of weight loss in one week I think there is strong evidence it is indeed a crash plan. I am sure the activity level helped but the calorie restriction in her new eating plan clearly was the main reason for that dramatic loss so quickly, especially for someone with so little to lose in the first place.

I know we are world's apart in philosophy, but any casual examination of scientific evidence can show that any kind of crash "diet" almost always does more harm than good especially in the long term. The harm it potentially does is more significant than just numbers on a scale, such yoyo patterns often lead to chronic lifetime health conditions such as hypertension and worse.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

JT how do you know she is low in calories. You dont even count calories. Also don't forget she is a lady and probably a lot smaller as you so she needs a lot less calories. There is also no indication of how much these meals are I cant make an estimate and you can.. strange.

She starts with she is not starving herself, i think she would know best because else there is constant hunger.

So strange indeed. I don't "know" 100 percent about anything based on what someone reports on the internet any more than anyone could. I can take clues and hints.

I am aware of the general calorie content of various foods through a lifetime of experience. That is not the same thing as becoming an obsessive compulsive actually counting each and every calorie every day. For example a can of water packed tuna is not high in calories compared to a German sausage that is 70 percent fat.

Anyway, my overall concern with the OP's tactic is her goal of losing this rather minor amount of weight ASAP. I think by doing so, which she has started to do, she runs a high risk of resetting her metabolism rate. So AFTER the crash plan, it would be natural to eat as before, as she has admitted her crash plan eating tastes like poo. The problem is if she eats as before not only is she likely to regain all the weight she lost quickly, but even more, because of the metabolism reset from the crash plan. Yes, based on the level of weight loss in one week I think there is strong evidence it is indeed a crash plan. I am sure the activity level helped but the calorie restriction in her new eating plan clearly was the main reason for that dramatic loss so quickly, especially for someone with so little to lose in the first place.

I know we are world's apart in philosophy, but any casual examination of scientific evidence can show that any kind of crash "diet" almost always does more harm than good especially in the long term. The harm it potentially does is more significant than just numbers on a scale, such yoyo patterns often lead to chronic lifetime health conditions such as hypertension and worse.

The fears of resetting your metabolic rate are really not that high, even with crash diets this is not something that happens easy. I wish it was that easy to tweak your metabolic rate but it is not.

[robblok]

JT

Interesting for you by exercising you can actually make sure you get your metabolic rate back even after a crash diet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2927298

[chiang mai]

@krysty,

You could also get some cinnamon and put that over the oats.

Sorry to diasgree with Rob here whose views I normally support 100% on the subject of nutrition but using cinnamon is a bad idea unless you can find cinnamon from Ceylon, Thai and Chinese cinnamon is extremely unhealthy and in quantities other than a few pinches is actually quite dangerous - if you wanht to learn more than google cinnamon and courmain and liver damage.

[robblok]

@krysty,

You could also get some cinnamon and put that over the oats.

Sorry to diasgree with Rob here whose views I normally support 100% on the subject of nutrition but using cinnamon is a bad idea unless you can find cinnamon from Ceylon, Thai and Chinese cinnamon is extremely unhealthy and in quantities other than a few pinches is actually quite dangerous - if you wanht to learn more than google cinnamon and courmain and liver damage.

It kinda depends if your sensitive for it and how much. But its good to know next time ill do a blood test ill let them check my liver again.

I am taking 2 teaspoons a day or so.

http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2008/02/12/how-much-cinnam/

[tropo]

The rice part is not easy for a person with a lot of time in Asia, it's a staple dish and I've known folks to have withdrawl symptoms if they don't eat it at least once a day, real or imagined it's difficult for many - it's the farang equivelent of craving potatoe's daily! But the OP seems to have cut down on her intake, way to go I say.

A craving for rice is real, not imaginary. My wife really needs it everyday and when we traveled to Australia for a month she was finding the going tough if she couldn't find it. We were travelling around so we didn't cook.

[JSixpack]

Exercise works in combination with diet to keep weight off.. Plenty of studies showing that (please counter)

Calorie counting does work and it gives you a great insight (please counter why not with reason and arguments)

Exercise can work in combination with diet to increase your weight. Makes you hungrier.

You'll need to read this 10 times to overcome the mental block:

http://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/

Calorie counting doesn't work long term because so few can possibly keep it up and your body may simply adjust to having fewer calories and keeping the fat on anyway. (True, Auschwitz prisoners lost weight thru calorie restriction--I'll give an extreme example before you can beat me to it.) Besides, one can lose weight w/o calorie counting by choosing the right foods. It's not the sheer number of calories: it's what your body does w/ the calories. Most TV members can't grasp what this really means.

My daily routine -

Wake up 5am - Run 3ks in 30 mins / skip for 5 mins.

6am - Breakfast: bowl of cornflakes with banana and a teaspoon of sugar (I know I should cut the sugar but it's a must for me)

Oooh. A must?

Cornflakes, now, that's pretty luxurious for a Poor Woman, ain't it? And it's a problem.

Quick oatmeal: no. Muesli: no. Better: rolled/steel cut oats. Better still: oat bran. Best: eggs, veggies, fish, meat (leave on the fat). If you have to have starch, go cheap and better w/ cooked brown rice.

Sugar: Horrors! You ain't really serious at all. Butch up! Honey: no. Fruit: no. Gotta have sweet, use artificial sweetener. (No doubt this will push a forum hot button, but pay no mind.)

Jogging: but you're probably jogging on asphalt/concrete. Don't do much of it unless you're on ground. Otherwise, walk--alternate fast/slow. It won't do much to help weight loss, really, but it's something, and desirable for other reasons.

The veggies problem: buy them the day the fresh market opens, in the morning, then store them in a refrigerator (save up your cornflake money). Guide for how long various veggies will last in the fridge: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-store-fresh-vegetables.html. And you can simply freeze them for much longer periods: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/freezing-fresh-vegetables.html. Sorted!

And the suggestion for a garden was excellent, as you've recognized.

Substituting the veggies for the rice, noodles, bread, cornflakes, potatoes, etc. (starches) is extremely important. Veggies!

No beer. Need a drink, have a shot of Thai whiskey now and then.

Do the above and you'll painlessly lose that 5 kgs in no time without bothering to count a single calorie. Seen it done, can't fail.

A craving for rice is real, not imaginary. My wife really needs it everyday

Well, of course cravings are real until you do without long enough to get over the craving--a few weeks, for bad carbs.

It's like any other addiction. Gets worse the more you eat of them, too. Which leads to the point that fat people want to eat more of them because they're fat from eating them.

[hands22]

Very interesting topic and replies! Wanting to lose my tummy and I do see some success by consciously watching my diet. Problem is that I have a sweet tooth. Managed to stay away from soft drinks and fruit juice....just wondering is Milo or hot chocolate a good beverage substitute? Also, is packed raisins (like Sun-Maid Raisins) good healthy snack?

[chiang mai]

I like the idea of what is called a caveman diet whereby you are allowed to eat only those food items that would have been available when cavemen existed, if it was growing out of the ground, off a tree or a bush or it roamed the planet as flesh and blood or swam in the seas or flew in the sky then it's allowed, nothing else is permitted.

Take it one step further and break your consumption down into two basic components, protein (meat, fish and dairy) and carbohydrates (vegetables, fruit, nuts and beans). You can eat any protein that you want but you can only eat low glycemic carbohydrates, follow that recipie and you'll loose wieght and stay very healthy.

Here's the glycemic index, useful to look up the food that you eat/drink and see if it's good or not:

http://www.glycemicindex.com/

I hope that answers your question about Milo and raisins.

[tropo]

A craving for rice is real, not imaginary. My wife really needs it everyday

Well, of course cravings are real until you do without long enough to get over the craving--a few weeks, for bad carbs.

Whoops! You missed the point. People who live in Asia have a desire for rice - it's that simple. It's not a bad desire, and there's nothing wrong with white rice. It's the combination of everything you eat during the day which counts. Japanese are heavy white rice eaters - yet they have the longest life expectancy on Earth.

You only have to have a look around you in Thailand to see how many heavy rice eaters are still slim. It's all about calories. If you eat too much, you're going to get fat. Yes, even on your recommended diet you'll get fat if you consume too many calories.

You can take an Asian away from rice for a year if you like, they won't lose their desire for it.... which reminds me of a story about a girl I knew whose boyfriend forbid her to eat rice. She used to sneak rice at night and eat it in the bathroom.

I'd never try to talk my wife out of eating white rice - that would be absurd.

Edited August 25, 2013 by tropo

[robblok]

I like the idea of what is called a caveman diet whereby you are allowed to eat only those food items that would have been available when cavemen existed, if it was growing out of the ground, off a tree or a bush or it roamed the planet as flesh and blood or swam in the seas or flew in the sky then it's allowed, nothing else is permitted.

Take it one step further and break your consumption down into two basic components, protein (meat, fish and dairy) and carbohydrates (vegetables, fruit, nuts and beans). You can eat any protein that you want but you can only eat low glycemic carbohydrates, follow that recipie and you'll loose wieght and stay very healthy.

Here's the glycemic index, useful to look up the food that you eat/drink and see if it's good or not:

http://www.glycemicindex.com/

I hope that answers your question about Milo and raisins.

Nice too.. but i seen the counter arguments.. plus what we have today is nothing like what the cavemen had. Just look how carrots looked back then and other things.. we as humans with selective breeding have totally changed them. Cabbage and such all the same just look at some scientific anti arguments.

[poanoi]

Its a good bet the cavemen would eat as much as they could possibly stuff themself with on the day they got the chance, and if the food had fat, that would go down first.

It wasnt all that romantic

Edited August 25, 2013 by poanoi

[tropo]

Its a good bet the cavemen would eat as much as they could possibly stuff themself with on the day they got the chance, and if the food had fat, that would go down first.

It wasnt all that romantic

It's a pretty good counter argument against evolution. If the past 100,000 years or so have seen us get unhealthier due to diet and lifestyle, then evolution must be thrown out as a bad theory as we are devolving. You can't have it both ways.

[robblok]

Its a good bet the cavemen would eat as much as they could possibly stuff themself with on the day they got the chance, and if the food had fat, that would go down first.

It wasnt all that romantic

It's a pretty good counter argument against evolution. If the past 100,000 years or so have seen us get unhealthier due to diet and lifestyle, then evolution must be thrown out as a bad theory as we are devolving. You can't have it both ways.

I seriously doubt we are unhealthier then back then. We get older so we have more chance to get sick. Most cavemen did not get old and had no chance to get the age related diseases we got now.

[poanoi]

The past 100.000 years has seen us more than double life expectancy,

while at the same time having time to play computer,

we even get to keep our teeth above the age of 30

Edited August 25, 2013 by poanoi

[tropo]

The past 100.000 years has seen us more than double life expectancy,

while at the same time having time to play computer,

we even get to keep our teeth above the age of 30

Yeah, but I'd say most of that additional lifespan is due to the discovery of antibiotics and modern medicine. Also, is this increased lifespan you attribute to "us" a worldwide phenomenon or just in developed nations where people can afford medicine, doctors and hospitalization?

Let's do an informal headcount of members contributing to this thread. I wouldn't have reached the age of 24 if not for modern medicine - indisputable as I would have expired after a serious motorcycle accident. I probably wouldn't have reached the age of 2 due to complications when still a baby. My 83 year old mother would have died long ago. My father who died at 49 would definitely have expired at least 5 years earlier.

How many of us would still be around today if not for modern medical intervention?

If you're poor and live in a country where there is no socialized medical assistance, you could easily die from appendicitis and many other common disorders. In the Philippines, for example, if you turned up at a hospital with an appendix ready to burst they would ask you to show your money first and they're quite ok about letting you die in the waiting room if you don't have any.

My wife's aunt nearly died just last year from a miscarriage and was saved when her mother turned up at the local provincial hospital with about 1000 baht - otherwise they wouldn't have helped her and she would have died. Many young girls die after giving birth. This is just a little sample from many I can give which I know about personally.

Is life expectancy increasing, or is this just a benefit of being rich?

Edited August 25, 2013 by tropo

[JSixpack]

Whoops! You missed the point. People who live in Asia have a desire for rice - it's that simple.

No, in fact I agreed with your point then gave you the reason for it knowing it isn't as simple as you think it is. I might have pointed out the cultural imperative leading up to it as well:

I suspect that Phillipines is especially bad because, from my experience with my Phillipino relatives, their culture teaches them that rice is a super healthy food. Some even think that rice is a requirement for health and that you would literally become sick and die if you did not eat it! Many growing up in the Phillipines have no accurate understanding of nutrition. We have had probs with relatives being constantly sick because they did not eat meat or veggies, just almost all rice. One guy was yellow skinned and jaundiced until he came to America and the Americans docs finally got him to eat real food, at which point he completely recovered after years of being sickly! We try to tell them but often they assume we are just crazy eccentric Americans and so they just nod and smile politely but do not take heed. Because in their culture "everybody knows" that rice is very healthy and required for life!

--http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/06/in-search-of-traditional-asian-diets.html

It's not a bad desire, and there's nothing wrong with white rice. It's the combination of everything you eat during the day which counts. Japanese are heavy white rice eaters - yet they have the longest life expectancy on Earth.

No, Japanese aren't "heavy" white rice eaters. Portion sizes are fairly small, you see, and Japanese don't snack all day. It's absurd to try to claim that their eating rice has much if anything at all to do with their longer life span. Who's to say it wouldn't be even longer w/o rice? Just shows how pointless it is to attempt to discuss this subject with you at all.

I'll agree with you that white rice is one of the least harmful grains. And that the other bad carbs count (in the "combination") as well, most importantly the sugar.

You can take an Asian away from rice for a year if you like, they won't lose their desire for it.

No, in fact I've known of three who, after much persuasion, gave it up, lost much of their desire for it, and not coincidentally lost weight down to their ideal. More could do that, or cut back anyway, if educated. But who would teach them?

Besides, they--those who need to lose weight/improve their numbers--don't have to lose ALL desire for it, just as I don't have to lose ALL desire for a baked potato to go w/ my steak. I'll have that potato on occasion--because my weight's under control and my numbers are good, so a splurge now and then won't hurt me. Typically on a low-carb diet, you add back in some of your favorite bad carbs--you find out how much you can handle w/o weight gain or worse numbers. The point is to lose the addiction and get in control.

Metabolisms are different anyway. If somebody can eat a lot of rice yet have no weight or insulin issues (maybe ingesting less sugar, too), then good for them. Some heavy smokers live to a ripe old age w/ nary a sign of cancer. But such exceptions just don't give a very helpful impression to, say, forum members here (the OP) who want to lose weight--and keep it off.

I'd never try to talk my wife out of eating white rice - that would be absurd.

No, in fact it could be entirely reasonable if she were overweight and pre-diabetic. You'd wisely start w/ the sugar first. Maybe that would be enough. If not, eventually you'd likely get around to the rice, too--but only as part of your calorie-restriction regime.

I didn't address all your new points, and there's much more to say (disagree with, lol), but why bother? It's been fun as always.

Edited August 25, 2013 by JSixpack

[tropo]

No, in fact I agreed with your point then gave you the reason for it knowing it isn't as simple as you think it is. I might have pointed out the cultural imperative leading up to it as well:

I suspect that Phillipines is especially bad because, from my experience with my Phillipino relatives, their culture teaches them that rice is a super healthy food. Some even think that rice is a requirement for health and that you would literally become sick and die if you did not eat it! Many growing up in the Phillipines have no accurate understanding of nutrition. We have had probs with relatives being constantly sick because they did not eat meat or veggies, just almost all rice. One guy was yellow skinned and jaundiced until he came to America and the Americans docs finally got him to eat real food, at which point he completely recovered after years of being sickly! We try to tell them but often they assume we are just crazy eccentric Americans and so they just nod and smile politely but do not take heed. Because in their culture "everybody knows" that rice is very healthy and required for life!

--http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/06/in-search-of-traditional-asian-diets.html

There's a difference between people who can afford to eat what they like and people who are forced to eat a lot of rice because they cannot afford the more expensive veges and meat. It's sad, but many people cannot even afford to eat rice. It's pretty rough in a country where over 40% live below the poverty line.

Given the choice to eat more meat, veges and fruit, most heavy Filipino rice eaters would cut back on rice. We live in a rice farming community in the Philippines and own rice farms so I know a fair bit about Filipino eating habits and rice, but I won't bore you with more details unless you want to push the point.

Edited August 25, 2013 by tropo

[tropo]

No, Japanese aren't "heavy" white rice eaters. Portion sizes are fairly small, you see, and Japanese don't snack all day. It's absurd to try to claim that their eating rice has much if anything at all to do with their longer life span. Who's to say it wouldn't be even longer w/o rice? Just shows how pointless it is to attempt to discuss this subject with you at all.

I'll agree with you that white rice is one of the least harmful grains. And that the other bad carbs count (in the "combination") as well, most importantly the sugar.

(There's no need to be rude. If you consider that it's pointless to discuss something with me, then just don't discuss it. I too think it's rather pointless to discuss many things with you, but there's no need to add the insults when we're having a normal civil discussion. You often complain about forum members, suggesting they are fools because they don't agree with you, yet you continue to reply. Why not stop the whinging and just get on with it)

I disagree. Japanese ARE heavy white rice eaters. I didn't say they are healthy because of the white rice, but whichever way you want to twist it, they have longer lifespans than most other nationalities and that is despite their white rice consumption. Who's to say they wouldn't live even longer if they increased their white rice consumption.

Here's a new twist on the subject:

http://chriskresser.com/health-lessons-from-international-cuisines-japan

Either way you cut it, it's a matter for debate... but of course you've already said it's pointless to discuss this with me, so I suggest you move on to another topic.

Edited August 25, 2013 by tropo

[tropo]

You can take an Asian away from rice for a year if you like, they won't lose their desire for it.

No, in fact I've known of three who, after much persuasion, gave it up, lost much of their desire for it, and not coincidentally lost weight down to their ideal. More could do that, or cut back anyway, if educated. But who would teach them?

Besides, they--those who need to lose weight/improve their numbers--don't have to lose ALL desire for it, just as I don't have to lose ALL desire for a baked potato to go w/ my steak. I'll have that potato on occasion--because my weight's under control and my numbers are good, so a splurge now and then won't hurt me. Typically on a low-carb diet, you add back in some of your favorite bad carbs--you find out how much you can handle w/o weight gain or worse numbers. The point is to lose the addiction and get in control.

Metabolisms are different anyway. If somebody can eat a lot of rice yet have no weight or insulin issues (maybe ingesting less sugar, too), then good for them. Some heavy smokers live to a ripe old age w/ nary a sign of cancer. But such exceptions just don't give a very helpful impression to, say, forum members here (the OP) who want to lose weight--and keep it off.

I'd never try to talk my wife out of eating white rice - that would be absurd.

No, in fact it could be entirely reasonable if she were overweight and pre-diabetic. You'd wisely start w/ the sugar first. Maybe that would be enough. If not, eventually you'd likely get around to the rice, too--but only as part of your calorie-restriction regime.

I didn't address all your new points, and there's much more to say (disagree with, lol), but why bother? It's been fun as always.

LOL...They didn't lose their desire for white rice. They may have given it up for awhile, but sooner or later they'll be back with a vengeance. I've know plenty of people (mainly ladies) who have taken a break from white rice and lost weight, but they don't keep it up forever.

This is the part you just don't get. Very few people will be able to maintain a diet with less than 20% carbs. Sooner or later they'll be back to that level or higher. Trying to maintain permanent weight loss from a low carb diet is just not the right way to go because in the long run it is not sustainable for most people. Making up 20% of daily calories from vegetables alone is not going to work.

Regarding my wife, she's hasn't gained a single kilo in 10 years eating a fair bit of white rice (in proportion to her daily calorie intake) - she doesn't have a sweet tooth so she eats very little simple sugars apart from what is in her fruit and vegetables. Why is this? It's the simple equation again - calories in vs calories out. She doesn't eat more calories than she needs and she instinctively knows how much to eat. I've tried to influence her eating habits, but I've given up - it's impossible.

I've also developed fairly instinctual eating habits which keeps my body weight stable. I'm not a low carber either. That's just too complicated. One day I may go high on carbs, other days moderate or even low. It's the daily balance of calories which counts. I could lose weight eating only chocolate and ice cream if I wanted to.

Now if you have a metabolic disorder, you can ignore everything I've said. Metabolic disease requires desperate measures, and people with glucose intolerance will need to go low carb or take diabetic drugs.

Edited August 25, 2013 by tropo

[poanoi]

 

The past 100.000 years has seen us more than double life expectancy,

while at the same time having time to play computer,

we even get to keep our teeth above the age of 30

Yeah, but I'd say most of that additional lifespan is due to the discovery of antibiotics and modern medicine. Also, is this increased lifespan you attribute to "us" a worldwide phenomenon or just in developed nations where people can afford medicine, doctors and hospitalization?

Let's do an informal headcount of members contributing to this thread. I wouldn't have reached the age of 24 if not for modern medicine - indisputable as I would have expired after a serious motorcycle accident. I probably wouldn't have reached the age of 2 due to complications when still a baby. My 83 year old mother would have died long ago. My father who died at 49 would definitely have expired at least 5 years earlier.

How many of us would still be around today if not for modern medical intervention?

If you're poor and live in a country where there is no socialized medical assistance, you could easily die from appendicitis and many other common disorders. In the Philippines, for example, if you turned up at a hospital with an appendix ready to burst they would ask you to show your money first and they're quite ok about letting you die in the waiting room if you don't have any.

My wife's aunt nearly died just last year from a miscarriage and was saved when her mother turned up at the local provincial hospital with about 1000 baht - otherwise they wouldn't have helped her and she would have died. Many young girls die after giving birth. This is just a little sample from many I can give which I know about personally.

Is life expectancy increasing, or is this just a benefit of being rich?

 

Given that i'm a bit of gourmet and food is an important part of life for me,

i think i would have just laid down to die when i was given the choice to either starve or eat that

maggot-infested corpse that was neither in a freezer nor salt treated, and nor did it come with an assorted plate of mixed vegetables.

I think we are genetically hard-wired to feast when given the chance, to eat not only until we feel 80 percent full, but to eat until we get fat if given the choice, so that we have an energy reserve for the rainy day when there is no food available, not even maggots.

Diet and healthy food habit etc is a luxury the poor sods wouldnt have believe if it was served on a naked japanese woman

Edited August 25, 2013 by poanoi

[ronz28]

There are some good youtube channels on healthy eating mostly recommending cutting out dairy products, meat, fish, chicken and eating green veggies like kale, spinach, and eat starch like sweet potatoes, rice, and potatoes to let you feel full. Here is one doctor's recommendations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1udAyTEtT8k

and here are youtube channels with many videos on healthy eating:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/HC_YVhEYHB2tk

https://www.youtube.com/channel/HCLLY0uMAnT8g

https://www.youtube.com/channel/HCUkNF0vQXNhM

https://www.youtube.com/channel/HCICdz6CRHxHc

Edited August 25, 2013 by ronz28

[chiang mai]

There are some good youtube channels on healthy eating mostly recommending cutting out dairy products, meat, fish, chicken and eating green veggies like kale, spinach, and eat starch like sweet potatoes, rice, and potatoes to let you feel full. Here is one doctor's recommendations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1udAyTEtT8k

and here are youtube channels with many videos on healthy eating:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/HC_YVhEYHB2tk

https://www.youtube.com/channel/HCLLY0uMAnT8g

https://www.youtube.com/channel/HCUkNF0vQXNhM

https://www.youtube.com/channel/HCICdz6CRHxHc

I don't agree that dairy has to be eliminated, there's a place for milk and cheese in a balanced diet although limited quantities is important (as with any food source).

Ditto the above but in reverse when we talk about rice and potato, they're both useful in limited ammounts based on the individuals needs at the time although they are less than helpful things to eat if a person is trying to loose a lot of weight fairly quickly.. The body doesn't actually have a need for starch but the other contents of rice and potato mkaes it useful, plus, for many low income people it's a matter of practicalities.

On the very plus side of things, spinach is the one vegetable that everyone should eat, especially if they have a glucose problem, it's a majic vegetable in that respect.