US government shuts down as Congress misses deadline

[Chicog]

None of that matters. It only matters that they don't get health care.

I really wish people would study this issue. The government shutdown is essentially over Obamacare.

Many people are fooled into thinking that Obamacare is national healthcare, Canadian or European style. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I just posted and explanation of the Republicans' objections, and a google link to back it up.

A lot of people are in for a shock when they find out that this Obamacare is nothing more than a federal mandate that each person buy his own health care. If he doesn't for the whole family, he pays a penalty to the IRS.

He has to prove on each year's tax return that he has health care that meets the government standard, or get hit with a penalty.

The penalty is much less than the insurance and I believe that many people will opt to pay the penalty, remaining uninsured.

Here's that link again. Obamacare doesn't give people health insurance.

The Republicans are right on this one. It needs to be binned and re-addressed as something which will work.

https://www.google.com/#q=obamacare+buy+or+pay+penalty

It's going to provide coverage for millions of people who don't have it.

It's going to provide coverage for pre-existing conditions.

It's (providing the Republicans and their owners don't fix it) going to force the health care providers to compete for business.

I don't see how it's bad.

The Republicans basically hate it because it's money they can't steal for their mates.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Chicog

[NeverSure]

Sorry. Various things that the Republicans have proposed in addition to allowing all ins. cos. to sell across state lines, and to centralize the management instead of having 50 administrations in the 50 states, and variations in premiums, is tort reform. Everyone knows that health insurance and health care is expensive in the US, but not everyone realizes that the massive awards paid for medical malpractice are a big part of that.

The Republicans believe that costs could be reduced by not paying a widow one million dollars in "loss of consortium" for the loss of a husband in addition to a bunch of actual damages such as the loss of the income he provided. How about a cap on that grief of about $200k? Less?

Many doctors have quit practicing because they couldn't afford their malpractice insurance premiums.

Next the doctors become defensive, and prescribe multiple tests and anything they can think of to avoid later being sued. They don't dare miss anything. What's a couple of extra MRI's so you can prove you checked everything from every angle, so you don't get a million or ten million dollar award against you?

Obamacare addresses none of this, and until someone does, the costs will stay high.

And people will be required to buy this health insurance or pay a penalty.

[NeverSure]

I agree with the Republicans a lot more than Democrats these days, but the Supreme Court found Obamacare constitutional and it is not going to be repealed with Obama in office, no matter what.

(Some) Republicans are wasting a lot of political capital over a fight that they can not win. Krauthammer calls them the Suicide Squad and, as usual, he hits the nail on the head.

I agree. But I think it's because the mainstream media bows to everything Obama, and the American people don't know the truth about the mandate and the penalties.

I agree with Krauthammer, but again only because people don't know the truth.

The Republicans are right, but people don't know what the truth is, so the Republicans are portrayed only as obstructionists.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

Also, posts with altered quotes.

Troll posts deleted.

[Berkshire]

I agree with the Republicans a lot more than Democrats these days, but the Supreme Court found Obamacare constitutional and it is not going to be repealed with Obama in office, no matter what.

(Some) Republicans are wasting a lot of political capital over a fight that they can not win. Krauthammer calls them the Suicide Squad and, as usual, he hits the nail on the head.

I agree. But I think it's because the mainstream media bows to everything Obama, and the American people don't know the truth about the mandate and the penalties.

I agree with Krauthammer, but again only because people don't know the truth.

The Republicans are right, but people don't know what the truth is, so the Republicans are portrayed only as obstructionists.

At the risk of getting into a prolong pissing-contest, let's be honest about what this whole debacle is about. It's not necessarily Republicans vs. Democrats. It's not about the merits of ObamaCare. It's not even about ideology. It's mostly about the Tea Party vs. President Obama. They just hate the guy. They want him to fail. Badly. That's all they want. And if America can fail miserably under Obama's watch, they will celebrate like it's Christmas. Everything else is just noise.

[Chicog]

Next the doctors become defensive, and prescribe multiple tests and anything they can think of to avoid later being sued. They don't dare miss anything. What's a couple of extra MRI's so you can prove you checked everything from every angle, so you don't get a million or ten million dollar award against you?

Oh please. Doctors prescribe a battery of tests because they know the insurers will pay for them, and ultimately that cost is passed on to the consumer.

That's why healthcare in the US is so expensive.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Chicog

[CWMcMurray]

Of course if no pre-existing a allowed, no need to opt in on Obamma care..

Just pay the penalty and if you get cancer, then just sign up... No difference in rate.

Also as a lot of people in US don't even pay taxes (the infamous 50%), they may not even notice or understand an just realize that their tax refund just got smaller

Then they go to the hospital and are surprised to get a bill, erroneously thinking they are covered under Obamma care

Also, how about the millions of illegals that don't file tax returns? Or those makin unde the min salary required to file tax returns?

They will not be filing the returns, so will not pay any penalty and likely will not have previously paid for Obamma care insurance

So the revenue in will end up being much smaller than budgeted by democrats and the only ones (for the most part) likely to sign up will be those with prior existing conditions

All in all, do not think it is a good plan at all...

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[Chicog]

Of course if no pre-existing a allowed, no need to opt in on Obamma care..

Just pay the penalty and if you get cancer, then just sign up... No difference in rate.

Also as a lot of people in US don't even pay taxes (the infamous 50%), they may not even notice or understand an just realize that their tax refund just got smaller

Then they go to the hospital and are surprised to get a bill, erroneously thinking they are covered under Obamma care

Also, how about the millions of illegals that don't file tax returns? Or those makin unde the min salary required to file tax returns?

They will not be filing the returns, so will not pay any penalty and likely will not have previously paid for Obamma care insurance

So the revenue in will end up being much smaller than budgeted by democrats and the only ones (for the most part) likely to sign up will be those with prior existing conditions

All in all, do not think it is a good plan at all...

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No doubting it needs some work, but it's a step in the right direction. If the GOP weren't too busy trying to keep their snouts in the trough, they could actually help improve it.

[CWMcMurray]

As other posters have mentioned, the republicans have tried to propose adjustments to help improve Obammacare , but seems are no interested in making any changes to the program

As I understand it, if dems were willing to make some adjustments to the bill , then Republicans have agreed to sign off on it

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[CWMcMurray]

It just seems that some are ok with just pushing anything through regardless and figure they can sort out the problems and details later

Others believe that should sort out the details first and then pass the program and the funding

So comes down to what type of person you are and who you trust...

For me, I don't trust either.... So for me, if I don't trust either, better to do nothing and no approve funding

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[Chicog]

As other posters have mentioned, the republicans have tried to propose adjustments to help improve Obammacare , but seems are no interested in making any changes to the program

As I understand it, if dems were willing to make some adjustments to the bill , then Republicans have agreed to sign off on it

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

As you understand it?

There are two "adjustments" they are trying to make.

(1) Delay it for a year and (2) eliminate one of its sources of funding, a 2.3% levy on medical devices.

The whole point of Obamacare is that it gets cheaper as it develops.

All the GOP fanatics are trying to do is keep it at the top of the curve.

The tax is fair given that it will drive lots of new customers to the device manufacturers.

These are not Republican "adjustments", this is the GOP trying to sabotage Obamacare.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Chicog

[Chicog]

It just seems that some are ok with just pushing anything through regardless and figure they can sort out the problems and details later

Others believe that should sort out the details first and then pass the program and the funding

Just a couple of points.

- Obamacare was developed by the same team that developed such a plan for Mitt Romney. It works.

- It is not being "pushed through" - it's already law.

[CWMcMurray]

It just seems that some are ok with just pushing anything through regardless and figure they can sort out the problems and details later

Others believe that should sort out the details first and then pass the program and the funding

Just a couple of points.

- Obamacare was developed by the same team that developed such a plan for Mitt Romney. It works.

- It is not being "pushed through" - it's already law.

You think it will work, I do not think it will work... It just comes down to whose numbers and explanations you trust.

It also ain't final until it's funded....

A bill with no funding isn't worth the paper the bill is written on.

In the end , I believe the Republicans will back down or at least enough will get cherry picked by the Dems by agreeing to add additional pork barrel spending in their districts to let the funding pass

But can still dream ... How wonderful it would be if the nonessential government activities stayed shut down for good...

The funny thing is, the first group to be hit was those running national parks, which is one the few things the national government should actually have their hands in

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[Berkshire]

It just seems that some are ok with just pushing anything through regardless and figure they can sort out the problems and details later

Others believe that should sort out the details first and then pass the program and the funding

Just a couple of points.

- Obamacare was developed by the same team that developed such a plan for Mitt Romney. It works.

- It is not being "pushed through" - it's already law.

You think it will work, I do not think it will work... It just comes down to whose numbers and explanations you trust.

It also ain't final until it's funded....

A bill with no funding isn't worth the paper the bill is written on.

Are you sure about that? I believe ObamaCare has officially started with enrollment as of 1 Oct 13.

[Jingthing]

Yes, the Affordable Care Act is now in effect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/video/inplay/everything-to-know-about-obamacarein-2-minutes/2013/09/26/469ae328-26d5-11e3-b3e9-d97fb087acd6_video.html

Edited October 2, 2013 by Jingthing

[Scott]

I believe on the news it was mentioning that the program had started.

[HeijoshinCool]

Yes, the Affordable Care Act is now in effect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/video/inplay/everything-to-know-about-obamacarein-2-minutes/2013/09/26/469ae328-26d5-11e3-b3e9-d97fb087acd6_video.html

But no one can apply because their websites are down due to the shutdown.

[Jingthing]

Yes, the Affordable Care Act is now in effect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/video/inplay/everything-to-know-about-obamacarein-2-minutes/2013/09/26/469ae328-26d5-11e3-b3e9-d97fb087acd6_video.html

But no one can apply because their websites are down due to the shutdown.

They are not down. Please don't post such blatant misinformation.

https://www.healthcare.gov/

You know, there are a lot of laws that we don't like. But they are still the law. If people don't like a law they can try to change the law. But while the laws exist, they are the law.

The opponents of the ACA have already voted many, many, many times to show their opposition to this law. They don't have the votes and they never will with the current congress. Now they acting like destructive babies because they can't get what they want. Hopefully, the American people will harshly punish this irresponsible behavior in future elections.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Jingthing

[HeijoshinCool]

Yes, the Affordable Care Act is now in effect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/video/inplay/everything-to-know-about-obamacarein-2-minutes/2013/09/26/469ae328-26d5-11e3-b3e9-d97fb087acd6_video.html

But no one can apply because their websites are down due to the shutdown.

They are not down. Please don't post such blatant misinformation.

https://www.healthcare.gov/

You know, there are a lot of laws that we don't like. But they are still the law. If people don't like a law they can try to change the law. But while the laws exist, they are the law.

The opponents of the ACA have already voted many, many, many times to show their opposition to this law. They don't have the votes and they never will with the current congress. Now they acting like destructive babies because they can't get what they want. Hopefully, the American people will harshly punish this irresponsible behavior in future elections.

Some of them indeed were most certainly down this morning.

Lighten up, bud.

[chuckd]

Now for a little touch of reality.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oops: MSNBC Anchor Can’t Access Obamacare Exchange

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/360064/oops-msnbc-anchor-cant-access-obamacare-exchange-andrew-johnson

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama now says Obamacare will bring months of ‘glitches’

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/1/obama-now-says-obamacare-will-bring-months-glitche/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Officials tight-lipped about problems with enrollment at ObamaCare opening

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/325975-officials-tight-lipped-on-early-obamacare-enrollment-glitches#ixzz2gYEHU9LE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for a truthful look at our government.

TOP TEN MOST PROFITABLE GOVERNMENT RUN PROGRAMS

1.

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5.

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10.

Any questions?

[Jingthing]

The government doesn't exist to make profit. You're thinking of McDonalds or something. In any case the ACA is NOT a nationalized universal health care program anyway! Too bad about that, but the ACA preserves the private medical health care and insurance profit based system.

Anyway:

The problems on the Web sites were not caused by staffing shortages due to the government shutdown, because most of the government employees involved with the law’s implementation were not furloughed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/obamacare-site-goes-live-with-some-glitches/2013/10/01/380a4300-2a9d-11e3-8ade-a1f23cda135e_story.html?hpid=z3

What do you expect from a new system that is overloaded? The opponents of Obama are wishing expanded health care access to fail. That's downright nasty.

Of course there are glitches. There are always glitches. Glitches can be fixed. Can the glitch that is the tea party "movement" be fixed?

Edited October 2, 2013 by Jingthing

[boomerangutang]

Next the doctors become defensive, and prescribe multiple tests and anything they can think of to avoid later being sued. They don't dare miss anything. What's a couple of extra MRI's so you can prove you checked everything from every angle, so you don't get a million or ten million dollar award against you?

Oh please. Doctors prescribe a battery of tests because they know the insurers will pay for them, and ultimately that cost is passed on to the consumer.

That's why healthcare in the US is so expensive.

Thanks for showing that graph. As an American, I've known for decades that the US health care system is criminally expensive. Why else would hordes of elderly go to Canada, Mexico, Thailand, Brazil and other places to get medical things done, and pharma drugs. Obamacare might change that a slight bit for the better, but doctors aren't going to miss any yacht payments or quit squirreling money away in off-shore accounts.

[Chicog]

It also ain't final until it's funded....

A bill with no funding isn't worth the paper the bill is written on.

ACA is already funded, the shutdown can not stop that.

It's already signed into law, and it's already in effect.

[NeverSure]

Next the doctors become defensive, and prescribe multiple tests and anything they can think of to avoid later being sued. They don't dare miss anything. What's a couple of extra MRI's so you can prove you checked everything from every angle, so you don't get a million or ten million dollar award against you?

Oh please. Doctors prescribe a battery of tests because they know the insurers will pay for them, and ultimately that cost is passed on to the consumer.

That's why healthcare in the US is so expensive.

Please. Doctors don't make more money by sending a patient for an MRI and then having the MRI read by a radiologist and then having the patient see a neurologist. The MRI machine and clinic may belong to a hospital, and the neurologist will have his own office, perhaps with other neurologists. The radiologist will have his own practice.

It's the whole health care system that makes more money, but it's from defensive medicine.

Your chart just proves partly how many more procedures are done on Americans.

[NeverSure]

The government doesn't exist to make profit. You're thinking of McDonalds or something. In any case the ACA is NOT a nationalized universal health care program anyway! Too bad about that, but the ACA preserves the private medical health care and insurance profit based system.

Anyway:

The problems on the Web sites were not caused by staffing shortages due to the government shutdown, because most of the government employees involved with the law’s implementation were not furloughed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/obamacare-site-goes-live-with-some-glitches/2013/10/01/380a4300-2a9d-11e3-8ade-a1f23cda135e_story.html?hpid=z3

What do you expect from a new system that is overloaded? The opponents of Obama are wishing expanded health care access to fail. That's downright nasty.

Of course there are glitches. There are always glitches. Glitches can be fixed. Can the glitch that is the tea party "movement" be fixed?

What you're saying to me is that the private part will be profitable. The private part has to revamp its computer systems and get ready for Obamacare too, but it's the government who is failing.

Profit. The US postal system loses tons of money which has to be subsidized by the tax payer. But UPS and FED-EX which are private make lots of money. When something is private and there is a profit motive, and losses would befall an owner, the numbers are crunched better. But if it's just the taxpayers' money, who cares?

[NeverSure]

Yes, the Affordable Care Act is now in effect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/video/inplay/everything-to-know-about-obamacarein-2-minutes/2013/09/26/469ae328-26d5-11e3-b3e9-d97fb087acd6_video.html

But no one can apply because their websites are down due to the shutdown.

They are not down. Please don't post such blatant misinformation.

https://www.healthcare.gov/

You know, there are a lot of laws that we don't like. But they are still the law. If people don't like a law they can try to change the law. But while the laws exist, they are the law.

The opponents of the ACA have already voted many, many, many times to show their opposition to this law. They don't have the votes and they never will with the current congress. Now they acting like destructive babies because they can't get what they want. Hopefully, the American people will harshly punish this irresponsible behavior in future elections.

How about 5 years down the road when Obamacare is a colossal failure, and the man on the street learns how bad it is, the voters punish the people who foisted the scam on them?

Don't you realize that most of the people who are for it believe they are going to get health care?

[Scott]

How about we stick to the topic of the US government shut down?

(Rhetorical question, no need to answer).

[midas]

I'm not an American, but I have spent a fair amount of time in the USA. I like and admire much about the country, and its people. On several occasions, after having partaken of drink in their company, I have felt moved to apologize for my Regiment burning down the White House in 1812!

I was always surprised that the worlds richest country effectively made no provision for the healthcare of a very large proportion of its population. I assumed that was the purpose of Obamas program.

I can't help wandering if those who appear to be calling the shots in the Republican Party are exacting revenge for the people having elected a black man as President ( twice ),especially one with such an "uppity" wife.

The Confederates are at the core of this, yes.

No politician or any other will say so publicly, but privately one on one they boldly get in your face to let you know.

The US civil war has one of the worst hangovers of anybody's civil war anyplace, anytime, ever.

There's still no end of it in sight.

Seccession might be the way out of this.

Liberal and conservative America have been moving apart for some time now.

It will get nasty at some point...very nasty.

What happens if individual States simply refuse to implement the provisions of the Act?

[NeverSure]

Next the doctors become defensive, and prescribe multiple tests and anything they can think of to avoid later being sued. They don't dare miss anything. What's a couple of extra MRI's so you can prove you checked everything from every angle, so you don't get a million or ten million dollar award against you?

Oh please. Doctors prescribe a battery of tests because they know the insurers will pay for them, and ultimately that cost is passed on to the consumer.

That's why healthcare in the US is so expensive.

Thanks for showing that graph. As an American, I've known for decades that the US health care system is criminally expensive. Why else would hordes of elderly go to Canada, Mexico, Thailand, Brazil and other places to get medical things done, and pharma drugs. Obamacare might change that a slight bit for the better, but doctors aren't going to miss any yacht payments or quit squirreling money away in off-shore accounts.

First, an American hospital has 1/2 of it's highly skilled medical personal working on something other than health care. Most of that is either doing paperwork for compliance with federal regulations, or doing defensive work to avoid being sued.

So many nurses with master's degrees never see a patient.

Obamacare not only addresses none of that, but it puts another mountain of skilled paperwork on every care provider.

Source: I do IT work for a big hospital and helped set up a whole new set of servers and workstations for a whole new department for complying with Obamacare. There was already another one for complying with existing federal reports and regulations.

[Loptr]

As other posters have mentioned, the republicans have tried to propose adjustments to help improve Obammacare , but seems are no interested in making any changes to the program

As I understand it, if dems were willing to make some adjustments to the bill , then Republicans have agreed to sign off on it

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

As you understand it?

There are two "adjustments" they are trying to make.

(1) Delay it for a year and (2) eliminate one of its sources of funding, a 2.3% levy on medical devices.

The whole point of Obamacare is that it gets cheaper as it develops.

All the GOP fanatics are trying to do is keep it at the top of the curve.

The tax is fair given that it will drive lots of new customers to the device manufacturers.

These are not Republican "adjustments", this is the GOP trying to sabotage Obamacare.

Not sure where you get your information, but you are incorrect. It gets more expensive over time. The rates for non-compliance and participation grow over the next 6 years, not decrease.

Just for giggles, I got a price quotation from my state's ACA exchange yesterday. The ACA rates for less coverage than I have today is triple the cost of my current health care policy. And this was with three times the deducible and a cap of 50% of what my current policy provides on expenditures. So no, it is not less expensive by a long shot.

All you have to do is examine the rates / deductibles for services provided under ACA to realize that it is a scam and a joke, designed to line the pockets of the health care and insurance industries.