Another case of a foreigner being treated unfairly in Thailand?

[Straight8]

I'd like to know what the German Embassy think about this situation.

I also wonder if making the derisory offer for the computer could be construed as an offence which warranted a retaliation in kind.

Offering 6000 for something listed at 8000 is hardly derisory or insulting.

If it was the whole bargaining culture in Thailand would collapse into anarchy.

The guy is dodgy. He is not broke.

Totally agree!!

No need to reply in that manner.

I though the offer was one you can either accept or reject and to be quite frank was not too bad. Most would offer a lot less than that. People think because they paid a certain price, their stuff is worth the price they ask for. In this case, your selling a second had computer, with no warranty. There could be many things wrong with it, the buyer takes on a huge amount of risk.

Really no need for any reply if you are not interested in accepeting. Move and be done with it.

Maybe this will teach this **** some manners

[Netizen]

Sounds similar to the Lee Chestnutt case. He was falsely accused of a crime and ended up stuck here for over 3 years with his passport confiscated and on an immigration stop list.

This Canadian guy could be stuck here for a very long time, unable to work too.

As someone else pointed out, there are 2 sides to every story.

And as the Canadian guy said I hope it doesn't happen to me.

Lee eventually got the nut off his chest.

[Netizen]

By the way, I have been involved in 2 cases of litigation in Thailand both of which I consider I won. One endured for 2+ years and the other for 3+ years. Both were settled out of court and a judgement was not required. Otherwise they might still be in process. In both cases the judges strongly promoted settlement by agreement between the parties. This is the Thai way.

I was allowed to come and go from Thailand in the interim. However I had property and assets which meant my antagonist could not demand I not be allowed to leave.

For Lee Chestnutt and his partner they would have been better off if he had paid for the alleged damage and furniture or left a bond for the amount with the court. Sometimes people are too stubborn to let go of an issue like the monkey that can't remove its hand full of peanuts from a jar because it refuses to release the peanuts.

You have to have endurance to withstand the legal system of Thailand.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Netizen

[SSSlongtime]

sounds like like the woody allen song about litter ,got to be old to have heard it ,my thoughts are best stay in the west ,medical care ,and law and order

[jimbobs1]

Scarey, that German needs locking up

Unbelievable

[CharlieH]

Strange to use defamation for this in thailand as if you ask the majority of thais they dont even know what <deleted> Off means ! They have no clue at all that this can be insulting. Technically you are using/speaking in a foreign language, and a phrase that is not even understood, so how does that work? Surely in the spirit of the law the insult would have to be made in Thai? And in public.

Something very wrong with this story and doesnt add up.

Edited October 5, 2013 by CharlieH

[silent]

Scarey, that German needs locking up

Unbelievable

Na, they both need solitary lock up, as persons in need of protection.

[KED]

He is in a bad situation indeed, but I don't see how he is being treated unfairly by the legal system for being a foreigner. The system is screwed up for everybody.

Agree. Absolutely misleading thread title. This is a farang on farang dispute. Nothing to do with a foreigner being treated unfairly because he's a foreigner.

But (if this storey is true) the Thai legal system is giving creedence to private emails being eligible for prosecution. The German man would not be able to proceed without Thai police/judicial support.

[Curt1591]

There has to be much more to this case.

The cops aren't going to arrest, let alone re-arrest, some foreigner for such drivel.

We have had real Thai court warrants, from real Thai court decisions, passed down by real Thai judges, that the police did everything the could to avoid enforcing.

[Jingthing]

...

This guy must have at least 800,000 Baht in a bank account in Thailand to get a visa. This is more than enough for his medical treatment.

...

Huh?

Nobody said he was on retirement extensions.

[Jingthing]

...

The cops aren't going to arrest, let alone re-arrest, some foreigner for such drivel.

...

I think you're wrong. They might.

[anselpixel]

After a few exchanges with both buyers and sellers in the farang-dominated classifieds, I've dropped out.

Insane asking prices and abusive responses to sensible offers appears to be the order of the day, until you offer something for sale.

Then they want to drop by your house several times while refusing to make any sort of offer until escalating demands are met. (Must let me take the item to a repair shop for assessment, must let me use it on a two-week trip to Borneo so I can know if it's what I want, etc.)

I will do business with the local Thais, and not all of them.

[shaurene]

try a counter sue of the german for defamation as he wrote not a nice email or try the route of threatening aggressive email if that was the case.

Seems to me the German has friends in high places for to even get to this point.

a reflection of the politically correct world we live good job he never tried to buy it from a UK Scouser the reply would certainly not been as polite..

Good luck with you quest

You are dead right, I'm a scouser and you should know how we feel about Germans, they bombed all our chippies and f****d our dinner time up.

How the hell was this German able to get this far, never mind Karma will get him, I hope

[maximillian]

Summary, the guy offered a computer for sale for 8,000 baht, a German guy offered 6,000 by email, he told him to eff off by email and the German guy got him charged with defamation.

The guy was arrested, then released, then rearrested, passport seized and 60,000 baht bail demanded for further release. His lawyers are convinced the case if illegal, the prosecutor agrees but the German guy is like a dog with a bone and he's appealed.

The prosecutor says that the appeal must run but he'll win in the end.

Meanwhile back at the farm he's diabetic, he requires a leg operation, and has a shoulder problem. He's got no cash left and he reckons that if he doesn't get his passport back he may lose his leg and starve to death before the appeal is heard. The Canadian Embassy is doing nothing to help him.

What do I think?

When I get a stupid offer by email I ignore it. So ridiculous as it is it's a self inflicted wound.

The German guy is entitled to appeal, what does this guy expect the Embassy to do? Swoop in and bypass Thai law? Everyone knows that our Embassies will not get involved in cases like this.

He's caught in a web of his own making, all because he just couldn't resist answering a cheeky email. In saying that though, what he appears to be at risk of losing ( his leg ) is a price too high to pay for a bit of nonsense bureaucracy.

If that's true, then he's needing to get it confirmed by Doctors and to present the evidence to the authorities. He's needing help.

As for the starvation issues etc, turn to friends or family, still being active recently as an engineer in the oil trade, there must be someone he knows out there that can feed him for a few weeks. To be 52, active in employment. and can't turn to anyone for help is a sorry state to get yourself in.

Very sad story. I'm ashamed of my noble German fellow countryman. Should I call him names ? Better not.

Once on the internet, about buying a 2nd hand bike, some (English/American/Australien) fool called me a <deleted>. Looked it up in the dictionary and had a good laugh. Never answered back.

Anyway, this Canadian needs help now. If not from his embassy, it must be us. Willing to donate 4.000 THB.

[NoshowJones]

If, under Thai law, people can get sued for insulting other people by e-mail, why are posters of Thaivisa not being sued by other posters? Or are they and I don't know about it? One poster told me to go and ----------. Can I sue him?

[tezzainoz]

I am a bit confused

I always thought the passport was the property of the Country it was issued in

this mean the Canadian embassy demands its return

or issue a new one and declare the old one invalid

this action would then only be a problem if the victim tried to re enter Thailand

[CraigSchuler]

Why not go to the embassy and file for a lost or stolen passport? if you can't afford a flight home I would at least head to the nearest border.

Edited October 5, 2013 by CraigSchuler

[Lancelot]

He is in a bad situation indeed, but I don't see how he is being treated unfairly by the legal system for being a foreigner. The system is screwed up for everybody.

I agree. He's done something stupid that has consequences. Nothing suggests being a foreigner had much to do with it and I can't see the implication in the thread title of a foreigner being treated unfairly. Didn't watch the video, but presumably he's only providing one side of the story. If his own embassy can't see a reason to intervene in what amounts to a civil case or because of supposed medical issues, he must not be very convincing to them either.

Seems more another case of a TV poster trying to promote an us-versus-them situation where one doesn't exist.

I see it differently. One person made a rude comment to another, it was a private affair, so how about a simple apology? Its not like the rude guy made a public comment and the other person suffered a financial loss, as in "I ate at your restaurant and it made me sick" causing a loss of customers.

Basically they are holding one person on a technicality; that is why most legal systems have a judge to oversee these situations in a reasonable and just manner.

I don't view it as an "Us versus them" issue." I see it more of one foreigner manipulating the legal system to unfairly punish another foreigner. I would feel the same if the disagreement were between two Thai nationals.

For one person to suffer a potential loss of a limb over a technicality is just plain wrong.

[klauskunkel]

If he had only met up with the German and hit him, all he would have to face is a fine of 500 baht...

[Lancelot]

He is in a bad situation indeed, but I don't see how he is being treated unfairly by the legal system for being a foreigner. The system is screwed up for everybody.

Agree. Absolutely misleading thread title. This is a farang on farang dispute. Nothing to do with a foreigner being treated unfairly because he's a foreigner.

But (if this storey is true) the Thai legal system is giving creedence to private emails being eligible for prosecution. The German man would not be able to proceed without Thai police/judicial support.

I agree, the German guys has some powerful patrons. For the average foreigner that obeys the law, keeps a low profile and is not connected with an "Influential persons" getting this type of agressive legal action against another foreigner is very unusual.

[webfact]

a troll post has been removed

/Admin

[Asiantravel]

Hello OP

it is tragic that it evolved from a 2000 baht differential in the price of the computer into eventually paying substantially greater fines and more than money all the time that has being wasted with all these other parties.

It's hard to imagine things being derailed so quickly and so seriously between yourself and someone you haven't even met in person.

Life is too short. When you saw all this starting to happen why didn't you offer to meet this German guy for a beer and split the difference? Agree to sell it to him for 7000?

[Jingthing]

If this guy's story is legit, then if he says he is dying soon, then he needs help ... NOW.

He doesn't need moral lectures on the events that led him to where he's at now. Seriously. Think about how ridiculous that is. at this point IF his story is legit.

If his story isn't legit, well, anything is possible.

By legit, I mean his crying for help and dire need being actually true and sincere.

Obviously, the details about what led him there are going to be a subjective telling, but if he's really at the end of his rope ... why does it matter???

Edited October 5, 2013 by Jingthing

[chrisinth]

I am actually surprised that so many people are going along with this and not calling it for the crock of sh1t that it really is.

We have a Canadian having a dispute with a German, going through the Thai legal system. If both these people (or at least one of them) are PR then I could possibly believe it. After all, what would the Thai legal system want to be involved with 'Guests' for, as that is what we all are without the status of PR according to the wise of TV. But that is an aside to the issue at hand............

The outcome of this legal battle we are told will be a 500 baht fine, not for defamation but for insult as we have been told in the video. For this, the guy is on bail but his passport is being held even though, according to the OP, he requires a life saving operation and will die within two weeks.

If you can believe that for an offence like this (which IMO is most improbable in the first case) with proper medical evidence from a reputable hospital or specialist that the passport will not be returned and permission given for him to travel for treatment, or that the Canadian embassy would apply pressure, then I would suggest that we have been living here for too long.

500 baht? Life threatening medical situation? No diplomatic intervention? BS!....................

EDIT: Given the subject of what the argument is over, the sale of a computer for 8,000 baht and the offer of 6,000 baht doesn't give credence to the influence the German would need, if the story were true, to take the case so far through the legal system for 500 baht.

All the above is obviously IMHO as I have no clue about the legal system in matters like this, but when you see murderers, thieves, fraudsters out on bail and allowed to travel abroad, I can't believe this.

Edited October 5, 2013 by chrisinth

[Frank James]

Like Gene Pitney says..."You know, it isn't very pretty what a Town Without Pity can do..."

I don't know what to make of this sad story. I want to believe the guy, but we're stepping into Franz Kafka Land here. Or at least, Theater of the Absurd. I can't believe that some farang, even a German, can go file a charge of defamation, then lose, then come back to appeal...blah blah. How can the Thai legal system even get involved in this petty BS?

Selling stuff in online classifieds is always a crap shoot. It attracts cons and weirdos of every stripe. And it's always a good idea to remember that the written word is far more powerful than the spoken word, and you never know how the other party is going to take it.

If the OP lives in my town, CM, I'd be willing to meet with him and at least stake him to some groceries.

But this is WEIRD!

[Card]

If you look at all the vids on Youtube, the guy owns or runs a café/rooms/diving centre and seems to have a load of farang friends. He doesn't ask for any contributions on the video as far as I can see, but I think that is the intention, but that may not be true. There doesn't seem to be any other vid on Youtube of a similar type - most of them promote his music. I also wouldn't trust anyone else's knowledge of Thai law or practices on here as I am sure it is totally unfathomable. All I can say is the guy should be on this forum answering questions if he wants to get anywhere - where is he?

Edited October 5, 2013 by Card

[Jingthing]

Yes, again, does anyone know WHERE this guy lives?

If so, the compassionate thing would be for some people to meet him directly and verify the story, or not, which shouldn't be that hard for him to do.

Then he can be given material help by those who would be willing if the story is verified.

For those without any compassion, consider that the opposite of that, ragging on this guy, is really dark hearted.

Cheers.

[nontabury]

Summary, the guy offered a computer for sale for 8,000 baht, a German guy offered 6,000 by email, he told him to eff off by email and the German guy got him charged with defamation.

The guy was arrested, then released, then rearrested, passport seized and 60,000 baht bail demanded for further release. His lawyers are convinced the case if illegal, the prosecutor agrees but the German guy is like a dog with a bone and he's appealed.

The prosecutor says that the appeal must run but he'll win in the end.

Meanwhile back at the farm he's diabetic, he requires a leg operation, and has a shoulder problem. He's got no cash left and he reckons that if he doesn't get his passport back he may lose his leg and starve to death before the appeal is heard. The Canadian Embassy is doing nothing to help him.

What do I think?

When I get a stupid offer by email I ignore it. So ridiculous as it is it's a self inflicted wound.

The German guy is entitled to appeal, what does this guy expect the Embassy to do? Swoop in and bypass Thai law? Everyone knows that our Embassies will not get involved in cases like this.

He's caught in a web of his own making, all because he just couldn't resist answering a cheeky email. In saying that though, what he appears to be at risk of losing ( his leg ) is a price too high to pay for a bit of nonsense bureaucracy.

If that's true, then he's needing to get it confirmed by Doctors and to present the evidence to the authorities. He's needing help.

As for the starvation issues etc, turn to friends or family, still being active recently as an engineer in the oil trade, there must be someone he knows out there that can feed him for a few weeks. To be 52, active in employment. and can't turn to anyone for help is a sorry state to get yourself in.

Agree with everything you wrote, but I'm just wondering if the other person involved is in fact a German, from what we are told he's only had contact with him vie e-mail, presumably the mafia-police know who the plaintiff is. This sort of scam is always instigated be a Thai, it's a bit worrying if now farangs are copying the Thai's .

[Jingthing]

So if it's true he REALLY DOES needs to turn to strangers for help at this sad state in his life, does that mean the moral judgment here is that he deserves to die now? I wonder how many people who think that also describe themselves as Christians ...

[soi41]

I don't know what is worst? The scam-video or the posters believing, that is a story from real life?

Someone replies impolitely on, lets say Bahtsold, and you believe, that the Thai legal system will even look at the case. I know it is Saturday morning, but please.......

For poster with a soft heart, I offer to be an agent for donations. Just send your money to TCB (Thai cheaters bank) account # 987654321. And I promise you, that your generous donations will be used wisely. Like buying better videoequpment for the next project!