Tourist boat sinks outside Pattaya - At least 5 foreigners dead, many seriously injured

[lostmebike]

On BBC World News it's giving a total of 6 dead; 3 foreigners and 3 Thais. It also says the 'last ferry' was overloaded with around 200 passengers and only made it around 500 metres out of port.

A terrible, tragic event. Overloading is an issue on ALL vehicles here in the 'LOS'. More regulations need to be introduced but would they be upheld?? Wishful thinking I guess;)

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[craigt3365]

A few extremely inappropriate posts have been removed from view, along with a few good replies. Warnings are being handed out. Please show some respect. No more troll posts or more warnings will be handed out.

Apologies to the members with the good replies.

[jacko45k]

Very tragic, but we all know it was an accident waiting to happen.

Good weather has arrived here so all these tourists would have been enjoying themselves in the sun.

Other recent Marine tragedies in Pattaya were supposed to be bringing about a new safety campaign and improvements.

I doubt we need to speculate whether or not the ferry was overloaded!

Or whether they will be running today!

So sorry that the families of those who died have had this happen to them.

[captspectre]

Let's hope the toll doesn't rise.

I often sail over to Koh larn. No idea what could have happened. We can only wait for more news.

What Happened? as usual! an overloaded boat! happens every year and will continue to happen, that's life in Thailand where the tourist do not look out for themselves! if the boat is overloaded, don't get on! and see where the life raft is if they have one or a life jacket.

[Riverman63]

I went to the island on the ferry in February. Very sad, tragic loss of life. This is what you get when there is no Health and Safety and avoidance of red tape. These things are essential

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[MaxYakov]

Planes, buses, taxis wielding samurai swords and chloroform, minivans, trains and boats. I guess it's time to buy hiking boots.

NCA buses and bicycles work for me. Not quite ready for hiking boots yet. I admit there is a problem getting to the islands by bus/bicycle.

Edited November 3, 2013 by MaxYakov

[thaimlord]

On BBC World News it's giving a total of 6 dead; 3 foreigners and 3 Thais. It also says the 'last ferry' was overloaded with around 200 passengers and only made it around 500 metres out of port.

A terrible, tragic event. Overloading is an issue on ALL vehicles here in the 'LOS'. More regulations need to be introduced but would they be upheld?? Wishful thinking I guess;)

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Yes I agree, but it helps a little to understand this particular situation too.

Tourists (understandably) sometimes leave their return home till the last possible moment, and all appear on the piers at once, ready to go. Sometimes they can put multiple boats on, and they do. And sometimes they just aren't available, meaning either the tourists can't leave the island for the night (chaos, frustation and problems), or have to cram into one or two ferries.

It's not ideal for anyone, and on the whole, I think the Islanders do a damned good job of balancing priorities. I know the owners of the (Naban side) ferries personally, and every one of them is from a good family and are decent people. They will be as shocked and saddened as some of us here at this tragedy.

[chooka]

Safety is not a word in the Thai dictionary, it is all about money and how much can be made as quickly as possible. Tourists are a commodity and they don't care about them as there are more arriving.

[yourauntbob]

waiting for the news to report something like

"it was the foreigners fault, if their were not soo many of them this would not happen"

i feel sorry for those that lost their lives and are injured.

it may be shallow, but i also feel bad for those who lost their material possessions as well. I have a feeling they will never see remuneration.

[HeijoshinCool]

Let's hope the toll doesn't rise.

I often sail over to Koh larn. No idea what could have happened. We can only wait for more news.

Have to wait for more news, Only sounds like it could have been the hourly ferry they do get packed easily carry 100+ sometimes like sardines.

I have used these boats hundreds of times over the years now at 25Bht single-pay before boarding the ferry mostly. 45 min travel time to main key (7-11) shop.

Horrific especially for kids and elderly+ non swimmers.

Non-swimmers, elderly or young, would be just fine if 1.the crew had the most basic of training, and 2. there were as many life vests as passengers.

Wonder how many crew didn't survive.

Not sure how you can figure that people would be just fine if there were a sufficient supply of life jackets. I lived there for seven years and on each boat there, generally speaking, IS a sufficient supply, the problem is that almost no-one wears them.

Not sure what you're insinuating about the crew in your last statement, but I'd venture that you don't know any more about the incident than the rest of us, so you don't know whether any of the crew acted awfully, heroically, died in the tragedy or what.

I will contact a family member later today and try to find out more from the Thai side of it anyway.

Reports are the boat was overloaded, and so, not enough life preservers. Which probably were not maintained anyway.

Not insinuating about the crew, predicting. Where's the captain?

I do agree with your statement (below) from another of your posts, however:

"We don't know whether all of the people would be alive if they had a life jacket or not. Sometimes the buoyancy of a jacket traps a person under a sinking craft when it flips. But yes it's a sad thing alright.

Personal responsibility needs to be taken too."

You are right, we don't know; I don't know they would be, you don't know they wouldn't be. But provide well-maintained equipment, don't overload the boat like some third world country, and at least they'd have a chance.

I myself have walked away from overloaded boats, trains, mini-buses and songtaos, on a number of occasions. And, yes, on occasion that meant staying over, or losing money.

If the crew/owners knew boat was not seaworthy without the pump, this would be, I believe, a violation of admiralty law. At least under most flags. Here in Thailand, I don't know. There are members here who are quite knowledgable about such things.

[Muhendis]

My sympathies are with the relatives of the dead and injured but I have to ask:

Why would any sane Person, Tourist or Local, board a Ferry that is SO OVERLOADED?

If you go to board the thing and it looks overloaded, don't get on!

Even if you are on board and you see the thing is becoming overloaded, GET OFF! So what if the ops don't cough up a refund, much better than risking your life on the thing.

People have to learn to take some degree of responsibility for their own safety and that of their family. Honestly, some folk just simply DON'T THINK!

You have to bare in mind that this was the last return ferry of the day. Everyone who stayed on the island until the very last minute wanted to be on it to return to their hotels. I think they probably had return tickets so no money changed hands. The "captain" did not want to refuse to take people off the island. His boat which was quite possibly not seaworthy was grossly overloaded.

1. If there had been ticket control by the ferry operator then the numbers of passengers on each trip could have been controlled.
2. If there was a proper control of seaworthiness and maintenance then ferries would be unlikely to sink.

My condolences to those families who have lost loved ones.

I hope things will change following this tragedy but I fear nothing will be done.

[timtscott]

Feel bad for all the victims and their families. Seems to happen in the Philippines two or three times a year. Took a ferry from Manila to illo illo once ...never again.

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[craigt3365]

The Thai news report said the boat was overloaded and hit a rock. The pump could not keep up. But the actual number of passengers is unknown.

[Jim walker]

Busses slipping and falling over trains same now even the boats are slipping over at sea Tourists your safety is our priority NOT. RIP and condolences to all friends and family of the deceased and hope injured make a full and speedy recovery.

[Ricardo]

My sympathies are with the relatives of the dead and injured but I have to ask:

Why would any sane Person, Tourist or Local, board a Ferry that is SO OVERLOADED?

If you go to board the thing and it looks overloaded, don't get on!

Even if you are on board and you see the thing is becoming overloaded, GET OFF! So what if the ops don't cough up a refund, much better than risking your life on the thing.

People have to learn to take some degree of responsibility for their own safety and that of their family. Honestly, some folk just simply DON'T THINK!

You have to bare in mind that this was the last return ferry of the day. Everyone who stayed on the island until the very last minute wanted to be on it to return to their hotels. I think they probably had return tickets so no money changed hands. The "captain" did not want to refuse to take people off the island. His boat which was quite possibly not seaworthy was grossly overloaded.

1. If there had been ticket control by the ferry operator then the numbers of passengers on each trip could have been controlled.
2. If there was a proper control of seaworthiness and maintenance then ferries would be unlikely to sink.

My condolences to those families who have lost loved ones.

I hope things will change following this tragedy but I fear nothing will be done.

"I think they probably had return tickets"

Just to point out that you usually pay your 30B (each way) in cash when boarding the ferry, and I've never seen people with pre-paid tickets, when boarding these ferries in the main town on Koh Larn or at Ta-Wen Beach, have been a dozen-or-more times over the past five years.

R.I.P.

[sirchai]

Very sad news....my deepest condolences to those who'd lost their relatives and friends. Rest in Peace.

And a fully and speedy recovery for the injured ones.-

[boomerangutang]

Parents: teach your children to swim, or at least to tread water. Everyone should know how to at least tread water.

With some buses (probably same with boats), they're packed to the gills, before they will take off. Others buses will drive 1 mph for the next 15 minutes, in order to try and get a few added passengers and baht. It's probably the same for boats. It's an Asian mindset to pack as many passengers in as physically possible - in vehicles which are as poorly roadworthy or seaworthy as possible, and still able to hobble along.

[Doc46]

Let's hope the toll doesn't rise.

I often sail over to Koh larn. No idea what could have happened. We can only wait for more news.

Wake up, it says what happened,Engine trouble,,,to many people ran up to top deck on one side,,,,,,,,,,,,,,to much weight on one side and tipped over.

Looks like their was nobody in charge to control the crowd of the over crowded ferry.

[dotpoom]

Let's hope the toll doesn't rise.

I often sail over to Koh larn. No idea what could have happened. We can only wait for more news.

It says above that the water pump failed

[Chao Lao Beach]

news report from Ch.3 here.....

Clearly it was the bad weather at play here.

[shaurene]

Here we go again, some time back there was statements made by officials about the over crowding on these

Island ferry boats. They are also so old is a wonder anything works on them. We have been on them to the islands many times, one time crossing there was quit a strong wind coming from the left and the boat was really listing I said to a few people come over this side.

Well lets wait to hear the shit coming out by the officials.

My condolences to the family's.

[laurentbkk]

Saw the story on national French news this morning ..... they talked about boat , road , train , buses accidents ...... very bad for Thailand image ... my deepest condolences to the families who lost someone.

[RickBradford]

Condolences to those affected by this accident.

The Thai press (Khao Sot) on the reasons for the sinking:

... water gushed into the boat, causing passengers to escape to the upper deck, which caused the boat to lose stability and capsize.

The reasons for the water coming in were thought to be either that the boat had struck a rock, or the water pump was broken, or the weight [of people] on the boat was such that the water pump was unable to cope with the water coming in.

[midasthailand]

Different video cuts from rescue the people of the Koh Larn ferry and from hospital:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DThJh2LcpV8

A very inappropriate video, I wonder how much the camera operator paid the hospital flunky to take video of the dead victims? I am sure the families of those shown in the video will be absolutely devastated if they see this video. Just another example of how low members of the media will stoop to try and get unique footage and how anything can be bought for the right price in Thailand.

Very unfortunate incident and easily avoided with the right safety culture.....unlikely to ever be introduced here.

RIP to those that died in this marine accident.

[MrWorldwide]

Safety is not a word in the Thai dictionary, it is all about money and how much can be made as quickly as possible. Tourists are a commodity and they don't care about them as there are more arriving.

OK, but would the ferry operator have told people to wait on the jetty if his customers were all Thais ? We both know that notoriously casual attitude to safety isnt restricted to tourists - lets not paint this as any worse than it is. There is also something called 'wrong place, wrong time' - thousands of passengers (including some TVers) have made that same trip intact : for these folk, their luck ran out. This happens in PI on a regular basis, often with hundreds of casualties, and I recall standing on the side of a road in Malaysia being told that we were 'lucky' our bus had merely broken down - the day before another bus on the same route had crashed killing 39 people. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time and we were lucky enough to be able to get a cab the rest of the way into KL.

Shit happens, sadly. Not saying the Thais should ignore this, but I dont see them enacting (or enforcing ..) legislation to stop overcrowding on transport of any description. Family of five on a 250cc motorbike ? Can - no ploblem !

[phitsanulokjohn]

Planes,boats,buses,trains,cars and motorbikes.Is any mode of transport safe in Thailand?I'm starting to fear walking will soon become hazardous.RIP to the poor unfortunate people that have lost their lives.

[Peterphuket]

And you know?, it will never changed. This government don't take any care, the only thing they will do is to get more money from the tourist instead of to take care for the same tourist. Like the anouncement to ask 500 Bath when they arive at this country!

R.I.P for those who lost there lives.

[Prbkk]

Shit happens? Sure, but we need to consider why Thailand resembles a sewerage plant relative to other destinations in respect of many aspects of safety ( yes, for Thais as well as others). The unrelenting hypocrisy of the LOS campaign must be starting to wear very thin with govts with an interest in the safety of their citizens

Safety is not a word in the Thai dictionary, it is all about money and how much can be made as quickly as possible. Tourists are a commodity and they don't care about them as there are more arriving.

OK, but would the ferry operator have told people to wait on the jetty if his customers were all Thais ? We both know that notoriously casual attitude to safety isnt restricted to tourists - lets not paint this as any worse than it is. There is also something called 'wrong place, wrong time' - thousands of passengers (including some TVers) have made that same trip intact : for these folk, their luck ran out. This happens in PI on a regular basis, often with hundreds of casualties, and I recall standing on the side of a road in Malaysia being told that we were 'lucky' our bus had merely broken down - the day before another bus on the same route had crashed killing 39 people. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time and we were lucky enough to be able to get a cab the rest of the way into KL.

Shit happens, sadly. Not saying the Thais should ignore this, but I dont see them enacting (or enforcing ..) legislation to stop overcrowding on transport of any description. Family of five on a 250cc motorbike ? Can - no ploblem !

[cMe2]

A Commercial Vessels load line is known as a "Plimsoll Line" thanks to Samuel Plimsoll circa 1824 - 1898 and determines a vessels safe laden capacity and is marked along the waterline both Port and Starboard sides for its operating area and conditions....

Commercial Ferries are limited to a safe passenger number usually limited to its seating capacity and number of life vests and

rafts available...vessels operationg in smooth to partially smooth waters may be exempt from rafts but would substitite Carley Floats

As an examlpe a Commercial Ferry operating within these limits may have capacity of 160 pax + 4 crew meaning it

has a safe working load and stability plus alll safetey equipment to accomadate this number.

Most Commercial Vessels will also have a Mechainical Bilge Pump and a Manually Operated Bilge Pump usually of a semi-

rotary type as back up

Example of Plimsoll Line here http://www.google.com.au/imgres?client=firefox-a&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=984&bih=620&tbm=isch&tbnid=vcQAw6M7qhm1JM:&imgrefurl=http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~mattom/science%2Bsociety/lectures/illustrations/lecture10/plimsoll.html&docid=cvGh3Xtv0V14HM&imgurl=http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~mattom/science%252Bsociety/lectures/illustrations/lecture10/plimsoll.gif&w=369&h=198&ei=XfJ2UrjKGsPnkAX60oAQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=158&tbnw=295&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=357&ty=215

In most countries a minimum standard of requirement for manning and crew requirements is a fully Qualifed Master a First Mate

an Engineer and a General Purpose Hand . If the Master is Dual Qualified as Engineer then they may carry a Steward or Deck Hand instead.

It would be a requirement to show regular safety drills are exercised in the event of an unlikey event occuring and that a maintenance log and certificate of Vessel Survey is current.

These are minimum requirements and any Safety Concious Operator would go beyond these limits to maintain Reputation

and Seawortiness of its fleet and Manning standards.

I would consider that Thailand may not be operate under these guidlines but may have its own of which I am not aware.

[Credo]

Someone mentioned teaching people to swim. That's a good idea, but when there is an accident, some people will be injured and knowing how to swim won't save you. Even a life vest might not save you if you are unconscious or, as another poster mentioned, trapped under the boat.

Accidents like this are always exacerbated by overcrowding.

Condolences to the family of all of the victims and I hope all the injured make a speedy recovery.

I am sure many people will be suffering psychological trauma from this for a long time.