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Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes


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Thanks for the laugh, "Scotland is well known for financial astuteness" Pity it didn't apply to the last two Chancellors of the Exchequer in the Labour lead government. Then of course we could continue on discussing the Bank of Scotland who were Taken Over by the Halifax Building Society in 2001, you will recall that Alex Salmonds then like a little child put pressure on the Scottish lead Labour government to insist that the headquarters of the new HBOS would be situated in Edinburgh, leading again to an example of Scottish financial astuteness for which the whole of the UK population is still paying, in addition to the loss of many jobs in Halifax, an area already suffering high unemployment to a more prosperous area. Hopefully these jobs will be returned to the rest of the UK in 2016 along with tens of thousands of others.

Then of course we have the Royal Bank of Scotland who after merging with the larger English Natwest bank strangely saw it's headquarters moved to Edinburgh, again at the cost of many jobs in the rest of the UK. This lead to more astute Scottish management, which in turn resulted in the British Government ( the Tax payer) having to take a very large stake in the bank,facilitated with the agreement of the then Scottish Chancellor of the Exchequer.

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RBoS at the time of their demise was lead by Lawrence Fish, chairman, an American national.

and Bank of Scotland lead by Andy Hornby an English businessman,

Andy Hornsby was but one member of the board, who were the others, I'll start you off. Chairman of the board Lord Stevenson, born and raised in Edinburgh as were the majority of the others.

No mention by you of the thousands of jobs moved from a high unemployment area in England to a prosperous area in Scotland. Can you imagine the uproar if it had been the other way round. And still this pandering continues, just ask the shipyard workers in Portsmouth.

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keep on your Scot bashing,,you have been doing it for over 50 years,,,,Ask them what they thought about independence you wouldnt get a short answer to that....After all sunny boy we all still are Uk citizens arent we not...Well 29000 jobs lost on the clyde since 79 is a good place to start How many jobs lost in portsmouth

Many jobs in different industries have been lost over the last 20/30 yrs all over the UK,

The difference is the jobs lost in England, that I Earlier referred to were not lost due to economic circumstances, but were TRANSFERRED to Scotland due to political pressure, In some instances from areas of high unemployment in England to prosperous areas of Scotland.

Hopefully when England gains it's independence from Scotland, these jobs and many more will return to other parts of the UK. Please help by voting YES in September.

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what prosperous areas of Scotland are you talking about ?

unless England votes on independence they will not get independence,,on the other hand Scotland who is voting on independence will if the vote is yes gain independence from the Uk.

good to see that you are happy to receive Scottish taxes to keep the UK economy afloat ,where is certainly would have collapsed .

you will find that the majority of the people making the decisions were English, % wise or otherwise...so good to see that you are so happy to support the policies of the Westminster parties, that again is bringing the country to its knees ,,no matter how much spin Osbourne gives about Britain is booming again.

you might be happy because of your obvious dislike for Scottish politicians

,,it may surprise you that us Scots have a similar distaste for them,,,but remember one thing why the Uk is so determined to hold onto Scotland is not about stronger together,,is not about security,,is not about our place on the G8 but is all about the Uk economy collapsing without the Scottish money and all the jobs and risk that will bring to the hard working poorer parts of England

so yes celebrate your distorted views that England will be better without, at the expense of your fellow Englishman

What is blatantly clear is why the English are not revolting with the policies and have now embraced UKIP as well

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what prosperous areas of Scotland are you talking about ?

unless England votes on independence they will not get independence,,on the other hand Scotland who is voting on independence will if the vote is yes gain independence from the Uk.

good to see that you are happy to receive Scottish taxes to keep the UK economy afloat ,where is certainly would have collapsed .

you will find that the majority of the people making the decisions were English, % wise or otherwise...so good to see that you are so happy to support the policies of the Westminster parties, that again is bringing the country to its knees ,,no matter how much spin Osbourne gives about Britain is booming again.

you might be happy because of your obvious dislike for Scottish politicians

,,it may surprise you that us Scots have a similar distaste for them,,,but remember one thing why the Uk is so determined to hold onto Scotland is not about stronger together,,is not about security,,is not about our place on the G8 but is all about the Uk economy collapsing without the Scottish money and all the jobs and risk that will bring to the hard working poorer parts of England

so yes celebrate your distorted views that England will be better without, at the expense of your fellow Englishman

What is blatantly clear is why the English are not revolting with the policies and have now embraced UKIP as well

A point of order :

The people making the decisions were in spirit neither English nor Scottish. They were and are acting in the interests of the political construct commonly known as Great Britain.

It should be readily apparent to any student of British history that the apex of power has merely seen a parade of characters jockeying for control over the isles and beyond with scant regard for any of the population, Celtic or Anglo-Saxon.

England has arguably lacked representation since 1066.

I am not eligible to vote in September, but I fully understand and support my Scottish fellow islanders in their bid to make a break. Little by little, inches become miles.

yes we all fxxxing know its a charade and the people inside the machine are only a pawn in the game,,well there is people outside the machine,,living surviving contributing nothing to the profits of the machine and getting nothing from the machine either....part of the fringe of the underclass ,,yes you can be a survivalist even within the encroachment of modern society ,Scotland is a huge country,i personally know of people living in the wilds on lands owned by the vacant landlords,,,,who actually get subsidized of the tax payers for being a vacant landlord,,,who are living in the wilderness,,living healthy contented lives,,free from the bondage of the machine,,so can be done...All the Scots are voting for is the right to hang the puppets of the unseen forces out to dry quicker than under the puppets of the west minister banner,,nothing ore nothing less

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Pl1IalnNI#t=201....Paul Flynn, Labour MP for Newport West, talks to going Underground host Afshin Rattansi about bias in the Scottish independence referendum.

He walked out of a Public Administration Select Committee on the subject after being told to be silent. He feels that a civil service leak stating that a currency union between Scotland and England would not work was a targeted attempt to influence Scotland to stay in the UK. He warns that Westminster could well be biased towards the Be

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Again you (7by7) have only looked up a google link (about NHS entitlement for non UK residents)and have no intimate knowledge of the subject matter

You have probably not noticed my many posts in the Visas forum about all aspects of UK immigration matters; including the entitlement or otherwise of NHS care for non UK residents.

I mention this to show you that I do have knowledge in this area. I did not need to Google to find out this information; I knew it already.

You claim to have worked for the NHS. Whether that was as a cleaner, a neurosurgeon or in any other capacity, what is obvious is that you do not know, or are deliberately ignoring, the regulations concerning NHS care for non UK residents.

Which is why I provided a link to an independent, authoritative source for you to learn from.

Or do you consider the CAB to be biased know nothings?

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Here you go Again for all you googlers.............

It is obvious from the vast amount of links you post that the person who spends most time Googling here is you!

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Again you (7by7) have only looked up a google link (about NHS entitlement for non UK residents)and have no intimate knowledge of the subject matter

You have probably not noticed my many posts in the Visas forum about all aspects of UK immigration matters; including the entitlement or otherwise of NHS care for non UK residents.

I mention this to show you that I do have knowledge in this area. I did not need to Google to find out this information; I knew it already.

You claim to have worked for the NHS. Whether that was as a cleaner, a neurosurgeon or in any other capacity, what is obvious is that you do not know, or are deliberately ignoring, the regulations concerning NHS care for non UK residents.

Which is why I provided a link to an independent, authoritative source for you to learn from.

Or do you consider the CAB to be biased know nothings?

The UK NHS will automatically take on responsibility for treating existing contributants as defined by NI payments. They are legally obliged to do so as they contracted with each individual by government policy since 1947. The UK government knows this already, and will honour the contract. I know this won't suit you as you are of the belief that Scots will automatically be regarded as foreigners if independence comes about.

Wrong.

The UK government has no mechanism in place to redact the benefits. The UK government knows that it will face the class action from hell if they try to refuse Scottish residents access to care who have contributed to the pay-as-you-go NI system. They know they will lose. They are legally and contractually obliged to honour the benefits accrued by NI payment.

The only way out of this obligation is for the UK government to provide to the new Scottish government a lump sum to be managed in lieu of obligation. The actuaries will have a field day working out the value of said lump sum, and I would guess it would be around one trillion pounds, paid cash, up front. Not a hope in hell of that happening is there? even half that figure?

You see - it doesn't matter if Scotland votes yes in September - the UK government still has to honour the contract.

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<snip>

I never ever said that i was English..,so if anyone led you to believe i was English it was the man from sussex.

The man from Sussex?

Who's that, then?

Can't be me, as I am not from Sussex and have never said that I was!

Neither do I have a nic which suggests that I have even the slightest connection to either of the counties of East and West Sussex.

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Again you (7by7) have only looked up a google link (about NHS entitlement for non UK residents)and have no intimate knowledge of the subject matter

You have probably not noticed my many posts in the Visas forum about all aspects of UK immigration matters; including the entitlement or otherwise of NHS care for non UK residents.

I mention this to show you that I do have knowledge in this area. I did not need to Google to find out this information; I knew it already.

You claim to have worked for the NHS. Whether that was as a cleaner, a neurosurgeon or in any other capacity, what is obvious is that you do not know, or are deliberately ignoring, the regulations concerning NHS care for non UK residents.

Which is why I provided a link to an independent, authoritative source for you to learn from.

Or do you consider the CAB to be biased know nothings?

Where exactly is your knowledge from?Are you an immigration officer.?Then you have a minimal understanding of immigration and none about NHS SCOTLAND

I very clearly remember you stating when i first said that there is NO UK NHS that your reply was ,well that MAY BE......so you didnt sound sure then and you sure dont sound sure now.

There is no UK NHS FACT.....Scottish patients treated outside of Scotland or even outside their postcode are treated as foreigners FACT.

ALL Scottish treatments in NHS ENGLAND paid by NHS SCOTLAND FACT

So were is your intimate knowledge gleamed from if not google?,

you clearly do not know and you can continue to draw a wedge in the origin of the topic which was confirmed by workers in the Great Ormond Hospital itself.

you are clearly just trying to convince yourself..The fact that you keep on going back to it shows your desperation.

You are happy for the parents of children to have been lied to

You are happy for people with cancer and their families to be lied to.

You then divert away from the initial post by giving a xenophobic account of non foreigners entitlement to a UKHNS system that does not EXIST

What is clear is you are happy for the most desperate of people the sick to show in their time of need if they have the capacity to do so ,,where they come from,,,,sounds xenophobic to me and if they have funds...

Scotland is open to all Even arrogant sussex people if they are in need they will get treated ,,,Better together better dead than help together you mean

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Here you go Again for all you googlers.............

It is obvious from the vast amount of links you post that the person who spends most time Googling here is you!

Wrong again you are on a roll...I actually have lived in Scotland a lot longer may i suggest than you have lived in The UK...So i have a much deeper intimate knowledge and understanding of what both Scottish yes and no voters want..

you can only ever have 2nd ,3rd 4th hand knowledge and uncertain knowledge heavily slanted at best

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Again you (7by7) have only looked up a google link (about NHS entitlement for non UK residents)and have no intimate knowledge of the subject matter

You have probably not noticed my many posts in the Visas forum about all aspects of UK immigration matters; including the entitlement or otherwise of NHS care for non UK residents.

I mention this to show you that I do have knowledge in this area. I did not need to Google to find out this information; I knew it already.

You claim to have worked for the NHS. Whether that was as a cleaner, a neurosurgeon or in any other capacity, what is obvious is that you do not know, or are deliberately ignoring, the regulations concerning NHS care for non UK residents.

Which is why I provided a link to an independent, authoritative source for you to learn from.

Or do you consider the CAB to be biased know nothings?

The UK NHS will automatically take on responsibility for treating existing contributants as defined by NI payments. They are legally obliged to do so as they contracted with each individual by government policy since 1947. The UK government knows this already, and will honour the contract. I know this won't suit you as you are of the belief that Scots will automatically be regarded as foreigners if independence comes about.

Wrong.

The UK government has no mechanism in place to redact the benefits. The UK government knows that it will face the class action from hell if they try to refuse Scottish residents access to care who have contributed to the pay-as-you-go NI system. They know they will lose. They are legally and contractually obliged to honour the benefits accrued by NI payment.

The only way out of this obligation is for the UK government to provide to the new Scottish government a lump sum to be managed in lieu of obligation. The actuaries will have a field day working out the value of said lump sum, and I would guess it would be around one trillion pounds, paid cash, up front. Not a hope in hell of that happening is there? even half that figure?

You see - it doesn't matter if Scotland votes yes in September - the UK government still has to honour the contract.

Only a very small proportion of NI contributions goes towards NHS funding; the bulk comes from general taxation.

NHS treatment, unlike all other benefits which are partially funded by NICs, is not dependent upon how many, if any, NICs one has made.

Obviously, though, matters such as payments to the Scottish government for this and state pensions, which are funded in part from the NI contributions of those currently working, and payments by the Scottish government for Scotland's share of the national debt will have to be thrashed out in negotiations between the two governments should Scotland becomes independent.

If Scotland is no longer part of the UK, then Scottish residents will not be UK residents and so should be treated the same as all other non UK residents.

Even British citizens who are not UK residents are not entitled to NHS care, except the basic initial care in A&E which everyone is entitled to; even if said British citizen has previously paid NICs for many years before leaving the UK.

This argument is going round in circles.

It is obvious that the pro independence lobby believe that if they succeed then they will get to keep all the benefits of being part of the UK whilst being able to abdicate from all the responsibilities; what they see as the disadvantages.

It is obvious that they believe the propaganda from the SNP and others in the Yes campaign that come independence Scotland will be able to dictate to the UK government and get everything it wants.

Start getting prepared for many massive disappointments, boys.

Although, in reality, there'll only be the one; losing the referendum.

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7x7 - There is no mechanism in place to deny Scottish residents that have paid into the NHS access to the NHS.

Your line about general taxation is a red herring - you know what the contract and obligation of NIC is. I believe at this moment in time you are kicking yourself in the realization that I'm right. It would be better that you admitted that the UK government will either have to honour the current agreement - or provide a lump sum to fund their obligation. There is no chance whatsoever of the UK government providing a lump sum, so they will have to grant access to the NHS for Scottish resident NI contributants.

Sometimes in life you have to put your hand up and admit that what you think should happen, and what will happen, are two totally different things.

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What is certain is that Scotland and Salmond in particular will not let Westminister dictate as they have often done and continue to do so to this day.

Like you said negotiations will be thrashed out and expect dirty underhand tricks as hinted by the House of Lords

One wouldn't expect less by the Westminster mob after all centuries of habit can just not be eroded over night.

yes better together if you prop up out economy

if not you can all die in the streets

welcome to the world of the sussex man

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